Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I agree with LtD (someone save this post). Johnson is supposed to be our front-line spearhead and senior bowler. If you want to do that you cannot give up gratuitous runs, much less bleed extras like they're going out of fashion.

Lee had the luxury of being a tearaway speedster in his younger days because we had the absolutely brilliant Glenn McGrath spearheading the attack, not to mention exceptional containers like Kaspa/Bichel and Gillespie. Our team currently is not like that - in fact, no normal Test team is like that.

In a normal Test team you can't afford to have one of your frontline bowlers leaking runs all over the place - much less your most senior spearhead. Johnson needs to get his act together. In particular, his petulant behaviour and wasteful bowling when he couldn't get Rampaul out was disgraceful for someone who should be leading our attack.

Yeah I guess it can be done like that too.

I was trying to create a team where Johnson is allowed to do that, because that is when he gets most of his wickets. But I suppose the opposite works a little better at the moment.

Almost all Test teams have that 'wild' bowler that can go either way. It is a necessity if you want wickets.

And if you want bad reactions and behaviour look to Siddle roaring like a dinosaur from a horror movie everytime Chanderpaul played one of his nifty little fine shots.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

IMO the whole current Australian team is one of the most mentally weak outfits we've had since the days of Kim Hughes' captaincy.

Whatever you think of Ponting's captaincy otherwise, his body language on the field is undeniably terrible. Johnson is supposed to be the leader of a very young and impressionable group of bowlers, yet the way he mopes around when things aren't going his way is incredibly negative.

You'd never see players like Border, Waugh, Taylor, Warne, McGrath, etc doing it. Sure, McGrath had his teapot and Warne threw his eyes to the heavens when he got smacked for four (even if it was sometimes just to lull the batsmen into a false sense of security). But they knew how to put it behind them and move on to the next ball.

The worst part is that bad body language filters down from senior players to guys like Siddle. Over the last 20 years we've become a side known for our toughness and resiliance on field - that image starting to be eroded.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

That is a silly post, up there with the likes of the stuff Eddiesmith graces us with.

This carry on about body language won't win you cricket matchs, sure, Ponting can sometimes lose his temper a bit but are you trying to tell me that Ian Chappell didn't at times carry on a bit - it's just these days they have 50 cameras all on Ponting. It is in Ponting's nature to be a bit combative, you know, to wave his arms at the umpires as if to say "what the **** is going on ?".

Body language won't win you cricket matchs, im not at all worried if Ponting loses it a bit every now and then when bowlers serve up consistent tripe - I would too.

The assertion that we are mentally weak is absurd - a few weeks ago we were on one knee in India trailing 2-1 in a series, yet we came back to win 4-2. That doesn't happen with weak leadership.

Border used to carry on a bit as well - once again, they didn't have close up shots and 50 cameras. These days the cameras zoom in that much you can count each folicle of Pontings facial hair.

My post alluded to the fact that at times Johnson and Siddle can go for to many runs - meaning that Ponting has to bowl Hauritz for long periods to serve as a 'base' for our attack as Hauritz is probably the only bowler capable of maintaining a good run-rate.

Johnson is a fine bowler, but he needs to cut out these periods where he seems to just let rip with tripe. Siddle also to fall back into the line and length stuff which characterized his performance in early 2008 in South Africa.

From memory in one innings he bowler 30 overs for 60 runs - these days he has been going at near 5 an over.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I agree fully (EDIT with Ceaser on that one.

I even remember guys like McGrath having a giggle when they got hit for four because it was all part of their nifty little plans, but you wouldn't see that today.

One thing that worries me is that there is no joking and immaturity going on. What made me admire the last Test team, the 'great' one, was that everyone was doing stupid impressions of each other, making jokes, laughing and being general idiots, even if they were in a really serious section of play. That showed they had the general feeling they were the best, which lead them to being the best. Rarely did something phase them

Occasionally do you see a smile but you rarely see something like Symonds, Clarke, Hayden, Gilly, Ponting, Clark and McGrath all mucking around and being general idiots making faces at each other. I saw that happening in the slips with Ponting, Clarke and Haddin the other day, but it didn't include the newbies. I have a feeling the don't feel a part of the team.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

WTF? Feel part of the team?

It's not like Siddle is going to bellow out to Ponting from fine-leg, "hey punter, how many beers did you drink at the kings cross"

Who are the newbies anyway? Most of these players have been in the team for some time now or around the setup- even the likes of Siddle and Bollinger.

I don't pay much attention to this hippy crap about body language, but it is totally inexplicable to let rip with a bouncer that goes for 5 wides.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

WTF? Feel part of the team?

It's not like Siddle is going to bellow out to Ponting from fine-leg, "hey punter, how many beers did you drink at the kings cross"

Who are the newbies anyway? Most of these players have been in the team for some time now or around the setup- even the likes of Siddle and Bollinger.

I don't pay much attention to this hippy crap about body language, but it is totally inexplicable to let rip with a bouncer that goes for 5 wides.

Strangely enough body language and all that falls into the category of 'sports psychology' which I am studying right now. Believe me, it is just as important as actually important. I am not going to write a 1000 word essay right now, but I will if you want to prove my point, but it is a fairly new age thing that has gotten players of all sports to almost double their performance enhancing playing ability from only just 20 years ago by at least 20%.

In essence, if you think you are the best, you will be.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Look im sure their is some value in sports pyschology, but I dont see it as much of a problem if every now and then Ponting lets rip at slip, I remember him doing it earlier this year in the ODI against New Zealand. Just screaming "****" when James Hopes got hit to the boundary.

I'd rather concentrate on line and length and technique rather then some humbo jumbo stuff about body language.

Sure you don't want Ponting blowing his top every day in the field, but every now and then a good spray doesn't hurt.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

It's not just the odd letting-off-steam thing though. Every time something goes wrong Ponting's rolling his eyes, or holding his face in his hands, or (as you said) outright screaming in frustration. That's really inappropriate when you are the captain and one of the few very experienced members of a side. It doesn't send a message of confidence to a young and impressionable bowling team when they're struggling.

Similarly, Johnson's attitude was awful during the Ashes - he moped around the entire time like there was a black cloud over him. I don't know if a more positive approach would have helped him get out of his mental funk, but it sure as hell wouldn't have hurt.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

About 50% of a player's achievement can be gained through techniques such as centring, imagery, visualisation, concentration and positive self talk. There are also individual techniques that encourage positive or negative reinforcement depending on what the athlete responds to the best. It is definitely not humbo jumbo and means that with the knowledge that this works for athletes today, they would most likely be better in all skills ranges than players of the past. Because all professional athletes have to use these skills in today's game, if they have a period of play where all their thoughts are negative and they lose self control, they are most likely to be performing as well as they think they are. If Ponting gets caught up thinking 'I should have' rather than 'I can do' he is using negative self talk and making him believe he can only perform up to a certain level.

Here is a point you may like. The English team is reknowned for bad body language and such. This is why if you get your head in front early, their thoughts spiral worse and worse and by the end you have a bunch of deflated cricketers who think only that the other team is better than them. But if they get the head start, as shown in the last Ashes, they spiral upwards and they are hard to beat from there because they know they can do it. This is a very knee jerk reaction style and the one thing Australia have had over them throughout many of our lifetimes is the ability to control their own thinking. This is why the Australian team is reknowned for impossible come backs. They keep their mental health strong and believe they can do it.

Matthew Hayden used to, at about 5pm the day before a Test, sit on the pitch that he was going to bat on the next day in his socks, long pants and shirt, with his batting gloves on and his bat in hand. Then he would sit there and visualise everything that was going to happen the next day. He would visualise the good with the bad and in that way he knew what to expect in every situation. He rarely lost his top like the rest of the team and was calm and collected. You could see towards the end of his career through the bad form patch he was having was caused by some negative thoughts. He would go out and smash three blistering fours down the ground off Ntini, then the next over he faced him he would be a very tentative player and start nudging at things. This was not the normal Hayden who would have been tormenting him further and further and really attacking him, trying to bring his mental strength down on top of him. This is what it can do.

Having a team that feels comfortable with one another is extremely important, and is also and issue the normally excellent West Indies are having trouble with now too.

It isn't something that can be shrugged aside and say you just have to perform at your best. It's like a coach telling their player to 'concentrate!' over and over again, when really, what are the player's concentrating on, they don't know? Don't put it down to humbo jumbo, Johnson probably scared the living daylight out of those batsman when his balls were going for two bounce fours.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

It's not just the odd letting-off-steam thing though. Every time something goes wrong Ponting's rolling his eyes, or holding his face in his hands, or (as you said) outright screaming in frustration. That's really inappropriate when you are the captain and one of the few very experienced members of a side. It doesn't send a message of confidence to a young and impressionable bowling team when they're struggling.

Similarly, Johnson's attitude was awful during the Ashes - he moped around the entire time like there was a black cloud over him. I don't know if a more positive approach would have helped him get out of his mental funk, but it sure as hell wouldn't have hurt.

I think your over-stating it a bit there, 'everytime something goes wrong' is a bit of a over-statement. Everynow and then a slow mo camera catchs Ponting rolling his eyes or swearing, but that is normal for most captains.

Test cricket is not a baby sitting club, if your serving up pies the captain is going to be pissed of.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I think all three of us are arguing different arguments here.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Back to the test selection, I always thought Hussey was at the least safe untill after Perth, now if the unthinkable happens and Australia lose to the West Indies in Adelaide, will he survive? Will the selectors panic? I can see Stuart Clark coming back in which will have Gayle licking his lips But what about the batting? Do they bring back Hughes on the WACA and hope none of the West Indies can bowl a bouncer? Or do they stick with the lineup that failed to post a decent total on the flattest pitch in world cricket?

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Hussey's last three scores have been 140, 66 and 41. Despite them all being scratched up pretty roughly, can't argue with the figures.

I really don't know because I tend to be suggesting things that have been working but it never ends up happening in the long run.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I think your over-stating it a bit there, 'everytime something goes wrong' is a bit of a over-statement. Everynow and then a slow mo camera catchs Ponting rolling his eyes or swearing, but that is normal for most captains.

Test cricket is not a baby sitting club, if your serving up pies the captain is going to be pissed of.

A good captain keeps his eyes on the prize. You'd never see that crap from any of our preceding 3 captains.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Back to the test selection, I always thought Hussey was at the least safe untill after Perth, now if the unthinkable happens and Australia lose to the West Indies in Adelaide, will he survive? Will the selectors panic? I can see Stuart Clark coming back in which will have Gayle licking his lips But what about the batting? Do they bring back Hughes on the WACA and hope none of the West Indies can bowl a bouncer? Or do they stick with the lineup that failed to post a decent total on the flattest pitch in world cricket?

... against what would have to be the weakest Test attack on the globe!

Hussey will not be dropped. Not now. He cost us the Ashes, but the selectors' inaction has meant he now has the runs they waited for him to come up with. Besides, with the lack of immediate pressure from other contenders: Ferguson injured, Hodge calling it day, more limited overs than First Class cricket being played at present, etc. the rush to replace him isn't so evident.

They wouldn't risk putting Hughes in at the WACA when he's supposed to go back and work on certain things. His form hasn't been outstanding either.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

... against what would have to be the weakest Test attack on the globe!

Hussey will not be dropped. Not now. He cost us the Ashes, but the selectors' inaction has meant he now has the runs they waited for him to come up with. Besides, with the lack of immediate pressure from other contenders: Ferguson injured, Hodge calling it day, more limited overs than First Class cricket being played at present, etc. the rush to replace him isn't so evident.

They wouldn't risk putting Hughes in at the WACA when he's supposed to go back and work on certain things. His form hasn't been outstanding either.

I do think no matter the opposition the strongest team should be fielded. Of course taking the team into consideration is part of it, but resting players for example outside of the schedule should not be done. This is also shown by not changing a line up when it should.

Really I have no problem with the batting line up as it is so I would not change it. All they need to worry about is ensuring that if one person fails above you, that you don't fail as well. The only thing wrong they are doing is occasionally falling victim to getting on a wicket roll and collapsing a little. Also not converting starts.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

A good captain keeps his eyes on the prize. You'd never see that crap from any of our preceding 3 captains.

Once again, I think your over-stating it. Every now and then the camera will catch Ponting cursing to himself or rolling his eyes - I don't think it's a big deal and if anything it shows how much drive he still has.

At times Waugh let his team's behaviour degenerate into the pits - normally when the team was struggling - which was rare during the golden period from 1999 - 2003 in which Waugh was captain.

You never see any of that crap under Ponting.

AB also used to lose his marbles at times.

Im not to fussed on this humbo jumbo stuff about body language and not showing emotion.

It is Ponting's nature to get a bit firey if things aren't going his way, I have no problem with the odd eye roll or outward show of emotion.

Ponting was bagged for this last year - like it was central reason why were no longer winning test matchs.

It's not a crucial matter, it's a minor thing, carrying on like it's the root of all evil annoys me.

 

[Thumbs up]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Hussey's last three scores have been 140, 66 and 41. Despite them all being scratched up pretty roughly, can't argue with the figures.

I really don't know because I tend to be suggesting things that have been working but it never ends up happening in the long run.

That is a very very suspect sample you have there!

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

That is a very very suspect sample you have there!

I'm not sure what you are implying but I'm going to agree for the time being

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

It's depressing watching Hussey play like this. Someone really needs to pull the pin.