Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

hattrick;353243 said:
Guys .. A few years ago in local club cricket in Cape Town the national woman's cricket captain(the name was Kim Price for those interested) played reserve level club cricket.

Wolf mate have a look at Annika Sorenstam, Michelle Wie's attempt to play Mens Golf Events. Yes they did not make the cut in those events but from a performance point of view did the LPGA a lot for in terms of media.

Physical limitations .. have a look at Milka Dunno, Sarah Fisher and Danica Patrick and how successful they have been at OPEN wheel automobile racing. To drive a vehicle on an oval at 200 mph OR 2-4 hours every 2 weeks that shows me that it is possible.

I think it boils down to the the leagues take on participation on it. Augusta National does not allow woman in their leadership positions.

I believe that this is basically an individual case analysis .. I saw no one complaining a failing Anna Kournikova..

To get to cricket.. it boils down to coordination ability and level of performance.. what marketing guru will do a mens vs womens 20/20 challenge ala Billy Jean King and Bobby Riggs..

This will be debated for quite a while me thinks.. :)

women can have the same abilities as men in sports, its just how they are raised that makes a difference. when boys are young, their parents give them footys and cricket bats for christmas, whereas girls are given dolls and tea sets. when a boy hurts himself their parents tell him to harden up and act like a man, whereas girls are soothed and comforted. this may be stereotyping here a little, but even if it isnt quite to that extent they are still treated like that. a child's main physical development happens at a young age between 3-6 where the child learns and develops their co-ordination and so on to help them be good at a sport. around that age is when parents often first introduce their son to a sport and he plays it from there and develops in that area, but a daughter may not get the chance to play until they decide they want to, maybe even when they are a teenager. this means they have missed that vital space where physical development is growing exponentially in a short period of time. the only way to make them as even as possible, and they can be and are equal, is by getting females into physical activities at a younger age. it is happening more and more and as such females are getting closer and closer to the males. but if all females have that same 'problem', not being sexist or anything, and they all play together, it kind of cancels each other out and results in a good game of cricket anyway, so womens cricket is worthwhile watching for sure.

well done hattrick, great post and well researched.

Kram81;353323 said:
I think the main obstacle is in what level of interest in the game do women actually have? I can only think of one female that I know that is even a 'fan' of the game above just a passing interest, let alone actually playing the game seriously.

Compare this to other sports such as tennis, basketball and golf which have a very large participation of females..

From what I've seen of the womens national side they would get absolutely thrashed by any first grade club side in Western Australia.

there is a very large female following of cricket in australia. personally i know more then 20 female followers and/or players. there is obviously nowhere near as much interest as the male population, but there is definately enough. encouragement is being put forward to women to play cricket. womens cricket has been around since 1874, with state and then national teams being formed in the early 1900s. this was in a period where womens participation in sport was looked down upon, yet it was one of the largest womens sport in the country. with media slowly picking up on the idea that there are women out there, more and more is being shown on tv, and why not is what i say, it only means we get to watch double the amount of cricket.

A.B De Villiers;353230 said:
Has anyone factored in that women, although 'limited' in their phyiscal capacity, more than make it up for emotional and mental capacity? I think as spinners and middle order bats could be idea. Women, once finely tuned to the game, would as good as the men, with their ability to provide rational thought, as well innovative thought, all the while being able to manage their own game and so on.

While we are all talking about this, which is purely theory, has anyone seen it in practise? why not set up a match to test it? I'm sure you could find 22 willing and able cricketers at similar level to test the waters.

very good statement and i agree with it wholly. there is no way to settle this but to try it, but i think that is out of our powers. i would like to think that men have the greater brainpower, but i know that is wrong so very well pointed out.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

There's probably not enough girls playing cricket to find that "freak" that would be good enough.

I think she'd be a number 11 batsmen and a spin bowler.

I don't see mens cricket as being a mens only game, it's the best human players avaliable and they just happen to be all men.

The woman who would be good enough would be just as big a freak as Warne, Murili or bradman. That means she would be very rare and a dominating force at womans level.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

This thread is full of huge generalizations and misconceptions, and all this "You're sexist!" "No, you're sexist!" crap is pretty ridiculous.

wikipedia said:
Sexism is the belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to or less valuable than the other and can also refer to a hatred or distrust towards either sex as a whole (see also misogyny and misandry), or creating stereotypes of masculinity for men or femininity for women
Ergo, if someone was to say "women suck at cricket", then that would indeed be sexist. However, if someone was to say "<gender> is typically predisposed to be inferior to <other gender> at <thing> because of <scientifically proven reason>", or vice-versa, then there is no sexism whatsoever.

Having just watched the womans T20 semi-final between Australia and England, it was obvious that there were very few players in either of those teams who would be able to compete with men at international, first-class or a good district level (with the exception of a couple of batters (eg: Claire Taylor)). This is not sexist, it is an objective fact. For the most part, the fast-bowlers do not bowl fast enough, the spinners do not turn the ball enough, and the batters do not hit the ball powerfully enough. Despite this, it is still not valid to say "women can't compete with men at cricket", it just means men are much more likely to be capable of reaching the level required to play elite cricket than women. If a women appeared one day with the physical strength and ability to play men's cricket, there is no reason why they couldn't be successful, gender is irrelevant outside of creating natural predispositions.

Of course, this is all largely a thought experiment, there a host of reasons why men and women generally do not compete against each other at elite level in cricket, or any other sport.

A.B De Villiers said:
Has anyone factored in that women, although 'limited' in their phyiscal capacity, more than make it up for emotional and mental capacity? I think as spinners and middle order bats could be idea. Women, once finely tuned to the game, would as good as the men, with their ability to provide rational thought, as well innovative thought, all the while being able to manage their own game and so on.
This is silly. You are using the stereotype that women have some sort of innate emotional superiority over men, which is just as bad as saying "men are better at cricket".
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

i agree with you there, although it is another proven point that women do have a greater mind for multi-tasking, so that could definately help. there are teams around the world that have female strategists.
if an australian womens player were to come and play against our grade team (which is pretty damn good) im pretty sure she would prove very handy. their fast bowlers bowl about the speeds of most fast bowlers at grade level, plus you dont have to be strong to be able to hit a ball to the fence with bats as they are these days. when i was 12 i borrowed a $500 bat from a friend and i managed to hit the largest six for that age group that most had seen. you dont have to be able to hit a six to be a good batsman, you barely even need to hit fours every over in test cricket. im pretty sure the best womens batsman would make a very handy 10 or 11, i would rate them better then someone like mcgrath.
so women would be able to play at grade level easily, but it remains open to questioning as to how high they could go. i do think that women should stay out of the mens game, and men stay out of the womens game though.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

cold case;353192 said:
F@#$K me foley!You have got to be just taking the piss or kidding yourself.Women are the best things on this earth but no women cricketer in this word is near good enough to play elite cricket.
I think I will totter off back to my own site where they talk crap but no where near as much as this one!
You display an unfortunate ignorance of female cricketers.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

I also watched the 20/20 Aust V England and yes some of the batting was very good especially Claire Taylor.On the other hand the bowling compared to that of a man was pedestrian,knowledge lacking and light years away from being selected in any type of first class mens cricket.Now if I look at it as Womens cricket the bowling was quite good but to compete on the world stage as equal and against the males not a hope in hades.Hasnt happened in 150 years and until someone like a Brett Lee has a sex change it wont happen fo another 150 years.
The average speed was 95 to 110 kms about the same pace as Anil Kumble.I think Kumble looked faster.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

Caesar;353456 said:
You display an unfortunate ignorance of female cricketers.

Ignorance?Probably.I have played AFL football at the highest level and cricket at a very high level for many years.I have got test batman out and have played in front of crowds 100,000 strong.I love sports and certainly watching sports of my choice.Womens cricket is not high on my list and would even go as far as saying it is quite tedious and boring to watch.As sportswomen in their chosen sport they are fantastic.I cant stomach soccer because it is too stop and start,very little to no scoring and any sport that goes backwards to go forwards I cant cop.Unfortunately AFL footy is heading that way also.
I just dont like Womens cricket because in my opinion and that is all that counts to me is monotoneous.Nothing to do with women.
I am an avid jelly wrestling fan!
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

So... what does that have to do with knowing anything about women cricketers, and their ability to adapt to the first class game? You're basing your assessment purely on bigotry.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

exactly.
the womens game is just as good as the mens to watch... in fact i like it more because the aussies win a bit more often. if you dont see that then you are not a cricket fan. doesnt matter on the sex, everyone can play cricket.
as for the adaptation to the mens first class game, im not sure i have seen a reasonable argument either way.
how bout we cut the sexism and just post straight evidence?
anyone have any stats or something that proves either way? like bowling speeds, accuracy, ball hitting distance, timing ability (being able to time the ball consistently, pretty much strike rate) or some other comparing point.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

Boris;353537 said:
exactly.
the womens game is just as good as the mens to watch... in fact i like it more because the aussies win a bit more often. if you dont see that then you are not a cricket fan. doesnt matter on the sex, everyone can play cricket.
as for the adaptation to the mens first class game, im not sure i have seen a reasonable argument either way.
how bout we cut the sexism and just post straight evidence?
anyone have any stats or something that proves either way? like bowling speeds, accuracy, ball hitting distance, timing ability (being able to time the ball consistently, pretty much strike rate) or some other comparing point.

fact: TV RATINGS
: CROWDS
You and ceasar are a minority.Both entitled to your opinion and do you know what?so am I!
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

cold case;353546 said:
fact: TV RATINGS
: CROWDS
You and ceasar are a minority.Both entitled to your opinion and do you know what?so am I!
You're quite welcome to be ignorant, certainly. It is your dubious privilege.

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Women's fast bowlers deliver the ball at what would be considered a quick medium pace in the men's game. Male offspinners deliver the ball slightly faster, legspinners are around the same.

Batting at the highest level is more about technique and reaction times than strength, so I see no reason why women could not succeed in that discipline. Not every batsman is a Matthew Hayden - some of the most prolific have been quite diminutive and slightly built. Same goes for wicketkeeping, again it's about reaction times and technique. Similarly, spin bowling is about technique.

The only discipline where it is unlikely a woman would succeed is pace bowling, because they lack the sheer height and strength to deliver the ball at requisite velocity.

Women are not as strong as men, but cricket is not a game of strength. To claim there is any inherent obstacle to their success is irrational. Given the requisite talent and the opportunity to hone it against appropriate opposition there is no reason why women couldn't succeed at the highest level.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

cold case;353546 said:
fact: TV RATINGS
: CROWDS
You and ceasar are a minority.Both entitled to your opinion and do you know what?so am I!

tv ratings are a very inaccurate source as the only games that have been televised (on free to air anyway, im not sure about pay tv) have been 1 hour highlights that are hastily commentated upon, except by healy as he is trying his hardest to get the game to grow and is doing a good job so far, that are on in the mid morning weekends when ratings are lower anyway. yes they are low, but that may be because they are simply shown in the wrong way at the wrong time.

crowds are growing, considering that womens cricket was barely heard of until a few years ago and absolutely no attention was paid to it. entry is free to most games so people are growing to the idea that they can go and see a good days cricket for nothing, then finding out its a pretty good day and go again, plus bringing their friends. the crowds have doubled in size pretty much every game of the T20 womens world cup, so it too is growing. it wont be long until you see the outcomes of womens soccer where small stadiums are filled.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

Caesar;353548 said:
You're quite welcome to be ignorant, certainly. It is your dubious privilege.

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I totally agree wth everything you say.I also believe if there was a talented enough female cricketer they would be given every opportunity.Surely the world has come that far?The plain and simple fact is that there isnt and if any elite womens cricketer at the moment protested otherwise they most likely would be challenged.Not a great idea I would think.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

Caesar;353548 said:
You're quite welcome to be ignorant, certainly. It is your dubious privilege.

------------------

Women's fast bowlers deliver the ball at what would be considered a quick medium pace in the men's game. Male offspinners deliver the ball slightly faster, legspinners are around the same.

Batting at the highest level is more about technique and reaction times than strength, so I see no reason why women could not succeed in that discipline. Not every batsman is a Matthew Hayden - some of the most prolific have been quite diminutive and slightly built. Same goes for wicketkeeping, again it's about reaction times and technique. Similarly, spin bowling is about technique.

The only discipline where it is unlikely a woman would succeed is pace bowling, because they lack the sheer height and strength to deliver the ball at requisite velocity.

Women are not as strong as men, but cricket is not a game of strength. To claim there is any inherent obstacle to their success is irrational. Given the requisite talent and the opportunity to hone it against appropriate opposition there is no reason why women couldn't succeed at the highest level.

thats what i was looking for. they would deliver the ball at a james hopes/andrew mcdonald speed no? the faster ones anyway. they both get wickets and are very handy bowlers to have, plus their accuracy would be just as high.

wicket keeping was one i hadnt thought of, i suppose there is no reason why a female couldn't do that, although i would have to say they would have to be bloody good to push off a male wicket keeper, but thats not the point of this argument i suppose.

although it would be a bit of a stretch i dont see why a batsman couldnt succeed. especially if they are an all rounder in the womens game and their batting performances in the mens game doesnt matter because they are in the side to bowl with their batting as a bonus. that way they could bat at 11 and get a few handy scores without having to ensure they score consistently.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

Caesar;353548 said:
You're quite welcome to be ignorant, certainly. It is your dubious privilege.

------------------

Women's fast bowlers deliver the ball at what would be considered a quick medium pace in the men's game. Male offspinners deliver the ball slightly faster, legspinners are around the same.

Batting at the highest level is more about technique and reaction times than strength, so I see no reason why women could not succeed in that discipline. Not every batsman is a Matthew Hayden - some of the most prolific have been quite diminutive and slightly built. Same goes for wicketkeeping, again it's about reaction times and technique. Similarly, spin bowling is about technique.

The only discipline where it is unlikely a woman would succeed is pace bowling, because they lack the sheer height and strength to deliver the ball at requisite velocity.

Women are not as strong as men, but cricket is not a game of strength. To claim there is any inherent obstacle to their success is irrational. Given the requisite talent and the opportunity to hone it against appropriate opposition there is no reason why women couldn't succeed at the highest level.

Well said. I couldn't agree with you more. some of the best cricketers have been slim, think Dilshan from Sri Lanka, or Shiv Chanderpaul from WI. not the biggest blokes but are still pulling in a truckload of runs at the moment.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

just thought i would mention there are plenty of men who play top level cricket who can't bat...
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

I don't vision any woman playing at the top level of men's cricket anytime soon.

Whilst women's cricket, particularly the top level, is of a very high standard, it is still some way below the international games that the men play in. I really don't see any female facing the quickest bowlers in the world (Shoaib Ahktar, Mitchell Johnson, Fidel Edwards) without getting themselves into grave difficulty and sustaining potential injuries. Facing up to spinners such Murali, Ajantha Mendis, Daniel Vettori and others would also post problems also with regards to picking deliveries and such.

The female side of things is also played at a slower pace. General play is a tad slower with the bowlers being considerably slower than their male counterparts with the batting and fielding being just a fraction slower also. You've also got to take into account the strength side of things. On physical characteristics alone, males are on average stronger than females. With batting, females may not be able to generate as much power with the bat as what the men can. A boundary scored by a male may only turn into a three or a two by a female batsman when facing the same bowler. There are also less sixes scored during female matches than in male ones which suggests less ability to get the desired elevation when playing such strokes.

All in all though, there are some very good female players in world cricket, some of them would be good enough to play district cricket in state associations but females playing against men at domestic or international level would require something special and I don't think we'll be seeing that in the short-term future.
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

bowling I would have to say there is no women close to being considered for a first class let alone international standard. The "fast" bowlers average speed in the womens game is less than 65mph, alot of club bowlers are quicker. Also for the spinners what people seem to be forgetting is the mens spinners bowl about 50mph generally maybe a little more the womens spinners barely make it above 40mph and the ball barely turns, there is a huge difference in standard, that being said i'm sure a female spinner could succeed if they could actually turn the ball.

Batting wise it is a little more likely though still not very you only have a 3 or 4 batsman worldwide that could be considered even close to a first class mens standard eg claire taylor, and india's raj. You really do have to consider the wealth of difference that exists between them when the batsman struggle against the pace of someone bowling 65mph.

Fielding wise the women can compete as there are a few good atheletes but there are a few sitters dropped so its more a case of the levels of practice just see the west indies men for example.

Unfortunately there is a huge difference between mens first class and even high club levels compared to mens cricket. The difference is displayed when a team of county 14-18 year olds hammer the best womens side even in a t20 see Young Surrey XI gives England Women stern test | The Brit Oval
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

gundalf7;353605 said:
bowling I would have to say there is no women close to being considered for a first class let alone international standard. The "fast" bowlers average speed in the womens game is less than 65mph, alot of club bowlers are quicker. Also for the spinners what people seem to be forgetting is the mens spinners bowl about 50mph generally maybe a little more the womens spinners barely make it above 40mph and the ball barely turns, there is a huge difference in standard, that being said i'm sure a female spinner could succeed if they could actually turn the ball.

Batting wise it is a little more likely though still not very you only have a 3 or 4 batsman worldwide that could be considered even close to a first class mens standard eg claire taylor, and india's raj. You really do have to consider the wealth of difference that exists between them when the batsman struggle against the pace of someone bowling 65mph.

Fielding wise the women can compete as there are a few good atheletes but there are a few sitters dropped so its more a case of the levels of practice just see the west indies men for example.

Unfortunately there is a huge difference between mens first class and even high club levels compared to mens cricket. The difference is displayed when a team of county 14-18 year olds hammer the best womens side even in a t20 see Young Surrey XI gives England Women stern test | The Brit Ovalhttp://www.britoval.com/news/young-surrey-xi-gives-england-women-stern-test

I would say that's a fair example of the difference in quality. Why the need to try and compare womens sport to mens sport?
 
Re: Could a Woman play elite men's cricket?

namdarb;353631 said:
Why the need to try and compare womens sport to mens sport?

exactly, this argument is a little silly when it would never happen.
womens and mens sport should be kept seperate unless there is something that could prove that one or the other could compete in the opposite's sport. like with tennis, its been proven that a female could beat a male quite comfortably.
 
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