General Chat 12/13

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A Slow Death! said:
1.South Yarra
2.Maccabi Ajax
3.St.Bedes/St.Johns
4.North Caulfield
5.Mordialloc
6.East Malvern
7.Old Brighton
8.Springvale
9.Parkdale
10.Old Mentone
11.Dingley
12.Aspendale
13.Chelsea?
14.Highett?
15.Moorabbin Park?
16.RMIT went North
17.MHSOB
18.Brighton East Ha Ha Ha

Not to mention my bug bear all the remaining clubs 3rds & 4ths who have left for the CMCA, Mercantile, SDDCL, MCC Club Xl etc
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18.Brighton East Ha Ha H- That's South premier to you, pretty sure we are still around...
Bomber was also the only official present as we won our way into senior..

Losing a club like Parkdale not to mention Mentonians if that is true shows how far away from working in the south this comp is... start with playing for wins or more hopefully men like Jim Seary and others can work with the DDCA to expand their thriving comp into a Southern cricket association. Gonna miss playing against a great club..

If Mentonians r gone does that mean Port come up as the next highest south club?
 
Patty came down for one day at our final. I wouldn't of expected any north ppl down as it was a south final.

I reckon McKinnon would stay up if old mentone are gone, but then that would make too sense... Bit like promoting the 4th team from south a1 ahead of Clayton or letting Hampton/bonbeach stay up.
 
Barrell said:
Patty came down for one day at our final. I wouldn't of expected any north ppl down as it was a south final.

I reckon McKinnon would stay up if old mentone are gone, but then that would make too sense... Bit like promoting the 4th team from south a1 ahead of Clayton or letting Hampton/bonbeach stay up.
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They arent north people - they are VTCA people. At the very least put in an appearance at some stage
And Hampton will be in South - premiers in South A last season
 
I'm pretty sure there was no VTCA official to present Senior Division medals this year at the grand final and instead was done by someone from Altona North.
 
Barrell said:
Patty came down for one day at our final. I wouldn't of expected any north ppl down as it was a south final.

I reckon McKinnon would stay up if old mentone are gone, but then that would make too sense... Bit like promoting the 4th team from south a1 ahead of Clayton or letting Hampton/bonbeach stay up.
Click to expand...

I reckon the VT will know Port r not far from walking as well & might try to keep them with that senior spot where as McKinnon r more secure VT club? That's a total guess tho!
 
A Slow Death! said:
1.South Yarra
2.Maccabi Ajax
3.St.Bedes/St.Johns
4.North Caulfield
5.Mordialloc
6.East Malvern
7.Old Brighton
8.Springvale
9.Parkdale
10.Old Mentone
11.Dingley
12.Aspendale
13.Chelsea?
14.Highett?
15.Moorabbin Park?
16.RMIT went North
17.MHSOB
18.Brighton East Ha Ha Ha

Not to mention my bug bear all the remaining clubs 3rds & 4ths who have left for the CMCA, Mercantile, SDDCL, MCC Club Xl etc
Click to expand...
That's a pretty horrible looking list, although the question was "18 clubs in 5 seasons?"

The last time my club played against Mordialloc was 05/06. My memory says they won South A, convinced the association that they should not be promoted to Senior A, then won South A again the following season, were promoted, played one season in Senior A and then left the comp. They claimed that their players were not interested in travelling across the city.

We played Old Brighton in 03/04, and I think that might have their last season.

The last time we played Springvale (in any grade) was in 1999/2000.

St Bedes/St Johns moved to the subbies (as Kingston Saints) in 03/04

As of now, with nothing definitely resolved (applications have been made, there are lots of rumours) there's only 5 clubs gone in the last five years - but even that number should be concerning to the executive. It certainly is to me. What is also very concerning to me (and one would hope should be a horrifying thought to those in charge of the association) are the seven clubs you have listed who played in the season just concluded (I'm ignoring Brighton East/District- I am sure they are very, very keen to take on Senior Division). And another poster has mentioned Port are on the verge of walking.

At one stage the South competition was significantly stronger than the North, and one could argue the cyclic nature of things, but the number of clubs lost in the last ten years in the South is very worrying, as is the number of clubs who are obviously not happy.

I would like to hope that the association are doing all they can to ensure that more clubs don't walk - but reading the comments from various clubs here, that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
Well I think it's very disappointing to lose another 2 south clubs to another comp. I have always enjoyed playing against Parkdale and even pop in for a look and chat when not playing. I'm sure Jimmy, Doggy and co have done their homework on it all and I wish you luck in the DDCA. I'm sure most of the boys at Hampton echo my comments.
Dale
 
The VTCA has grown into the biggest Turf Competition in Victoria and on the whole is run very well. The Quality of cricket and players has never been better, the grounds & pitches would be the best compared to any other metro comps in Victoria. Clubs attract high quality players by offering good $$$'s, but also the alure of playing high quality cricket on good decks is no doubt another pulling string for good cricketers. All this is great for the VTCA.
On the other side of the fence Clubs are made up 90-95% of people/players who play for the love of the game, the enjoyment they get from being involved and contributing to their club. These people are the backbone of each club and the competition. There are 2 major downsides to this competition that unfortunately makes it very difficult for players/supporters to really enjoy the game and their club

1. The higher the grade the more travel. No park cricketer wants to drive more than 30mins to play a game
2. Continuation of play after a Team has won and there is no hope of an out-right. This usually results in games being played till well after 6pm and impacts not only on the social side of things for your club but also interacting with the opposition who are understandably not keen to come in for a drink after they've scrubbed up and see it is 7.30pm already! This also impacts on your Clubs away teams(lower grades) coming back to the club to share their stories which is just about the most enjoyable part of the day

So what happens is players lose interest because now cricket takes up 8rs instead of 6hrs, it get's all too hard to juggle work, family and cricket. Supporters/committee who are usually 1st there on a Saturday can't be expected to hang around until 8pm for away team players to come back to the club to discuss the days events. Clubs question how they can improve this and the answer is play closer to home, get interactive with other local teams, form relationships, rivalries. All of a sudden players who know each other locally are playing against each other which creates interest from other family members, workmates ect.....

At the end of the day does it really matter what comp you play in, what grade you play in, this is Local cricket and although we all want to win a flag, no.1 criteria is enjoyment.

So my simple suggestion to the VTCA is scrap the bonus points system(go back to %) which would give Captains the option of finishing games once a result has been reached, this may make a difference to retaining clubs.

Over & Out
 
cutoverslips46 said:
some really good stuff
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Some really good points – one of the things that annoys me about bonus points and the 4 day GF, is that the justification for keeping them is that we will lose our grounds to soccer/footy/aliens if we call games off at 5:00 or use the last two days of March as reserve days for an 80 over a side GF. I reckon that is an absolute furphy. Even if either of them were true, it shouldn’t be used as a compromise for playing the better cricket

Nobody I have played against in my time (albeit short) in this comp is in favour of bonus points being the primary factor in determining ladder position

And apart from a few guys I have spoken to in Senior divisions, nobody I know is in favour of 4 day GFs.



The travelling is a massive issue. Look at the CMCA compared to top clubs in the VTCA south, and their ability to attract top level ex-Premier players, of which there are a few. Both comps have clubs which offer some big dollars, yet the synthetic comp is attracting players . Is it because they don’t want to spend every second week on the other side of town??

I’ve said before it would wreck your club culturally and socially and consideration needs to be given the VTCA “clubs”, not just those “teams” playing in VTCA senior
 
Why is it an issue for South Clubs having to travel but not North Clubs. I recall when i played Senior Division around the turn of the century playing down at chelsea, was always a good night, plenty of beers and good blokes, and traveling to Beuamaris and so on, it would appear to me the players have become soft and
is just a reflection of there apathy
 
southern sledge said:
You are relentless with your attacks, but sit behind a keyboard and contribute nothing to improve the South
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Ok Sledge, against my better judgement I’ll bite. You seem to have a problem when I (and others) state opinions – that says more about you than it does me. Doing nothing to improve the South – if anybody wants to come out to my club they’ll see a club that is in a pretty good position (good juniors, great off field, growing senior numbers), we are proud of what we have done, and looking forward to the future. Yes we are all blokes who sit behind a keyboard – but (and I’ll say this for perhaps the 5th time) I reckon that most of the people who post are involved in club administration at some level. Call them, or go out to the ground and meet them, they may have some terrific ideas – unfortunately we have lost at least two good ones in the past week

Here is the situation as it has developed in the last week - we have lost one club to another competition. We have very strong rumours of other clubs, including a prominent South Senior division club being unhappy with the state of affairs, and looking to either leave the comp, take teams elsewhere or strongly request a change to how things are done

We on this forum have said there is a problem in the comp we play, and offered some solutions. We are still keen to play in it, but we are keener for what is best for our clubs.

But the real issue, is what is being done at HQ? We had a president’s meeting (which was a terrific discussion), and we talked about everything from the heat rule to the U21 side – but when a club (Parkdale if you recall) brought up the possible restructure in the south side, it was moved along very quickly. How did we hear about Parkdale leaving? I saw it on twitter of all places, and it was confirmed by Jimmy on here. Still nothing from the VTCA to inform the clubs of the situation – has it not reached crisis point at VTCA? Does anybody think there should be a discussion of South clubs? I reckon it would be a start

Now we have been offering suggestions, not pot shots – because believe it or not, we all want to play in a really strong comp. But I’m really concerned for my club, when we have a Sunday comp that may only have 3 South sides in it next year, and only one lower XI comp playing two day cricket – and the focus seems to be on getting more teams in the north
 
slow medium said:
Why is it an issue for South Clubs having to travel but not North Clubs. I recall when i played Senior Division around the turn of the century playing down at chelsea, was always a good night, plenty of beers and good blokes, and traveling to Beuamaris and so on, it would appear to me the players have become soft and
is just a reflection of there apathy
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t know if the North clubs don’t have the same issue. But what we do know is that we are losing clubs (and potentially losing more clubs) in the South and one of the reasons is their players don’t like the travel. And the clubs don’t like it when ¼ of their club are playing an hour away every 2nd week

Apathy is a bit harsh – we sometimes put way too many barriers in front of people who want to play cricket. Sunday cricket, and a one day comp is a good move in avoiding some of these barriers, but if people who are struggling to give up 6 hours of their day to play cricket why do we add a couple of hours travel time?
 
cutoverslips46 said:
The VTCA has grown into the biggest Turf Competition in Victoria and on the whole is run very well. The Quality of cricket and players has never been better, the grounds & pitches would be the best compared to any other metro comps in Victoria. Clubs attract high quality players by offering good $$$'s, but also the alure of playing high quality cricket on good decks is no doubt another pulling string for good cricketers. All this is great for the VTCA.
On the other side of the fence Clubs are made up 90-95% of people/players who play for the love of the game, the enjoyment they get from being involved and contributing to their club. These people are the backbone of each club and the competition. There are 2 major downsides to this competition that unfortunately makes it very difficult for players/supporters to really enjoy the game and their club

1. The higher the grade the more travel. No park cricketer wants to drive more than 30mins to play a game
2. Continuation of play after a Team has won and there is no hope of an out-right. This usually results in games being played till well after 6pm and impacts not only on the social side of things for your club but also interacting with the opposition who are understandably not keen to come in for a drink after they've scrubbed up and see it is 7.30pm already! This also impacts on your Clubs away teams(lower grades) coming back to the club to share their stories which is just about the most enjoyable part of the day

So what happens is players lose interest because now cricket takes up 8rs instead of 6hrs, it get's all too hard to juggle work, family and cricket. Supporters/committee who are usually 1st there on a Saturday can't be expected to hang around until 8pm for away team players to come back to the club to discuss the days events. Clubs question how they can improve this and the answer is play closer to home, get interactive with other local teams, form relationships, rivalries. All of a sudden players who know each other locally are playing against each other which creates interest from other family members, workmates ect.....

At the end of the day does it really matter what comp you play in, what grade you play in, this is Local cricket and although we all want to win a flag, no.1 criteria is enjoyment.

So my simple suggestion to the VTCA is scrap the bonus points system(go back to %) which would give Captains the option of finishing games once a result has been reached, this may make a difference to retaining clubs.

Over & Out
Click to expand...
best summary of the issues I've read cutter.. we have to accept that in 2013 fewer players are able/willing to commit their summers to playing cricket and the VTCA rules make it an even greater commitment. It looks to me from the dropping club/team numbers in the VT & CMCA the game is struggling in the south east, is this the case around Melbourne?

I can see ways for us to enjoy our cricket more in some of the great ideas above. I hope this board is read by those who matter b4 it's too late.
 
cutoverslips46 said:
The VTCA has grown into the biggest Turf Competition in Victoria and on the whole is run very well. The Quality of cricket and players has never been better, the grounds & pitches would be the best compared to any other metro comps in Victoria. Clubs attract high quality players by offering good $$$'s, but also the alure of playing high quality cricket on good decks is no doubt another pulling string for good cricketers. All this is great for the VTCA.
On the other side of the fence Clubs are made up 90-95% of people/players who play for the love of the game, the enjoyment they get from being involved and contributing to their club. These people are the backbone of each club and the competition. There are 2 major downsides to this competition that unfortunately makes it very difficult for players/supporters to really enjoy the game and their club

1. The higher the grade the more travel. No park cricketer wants to drive more than 30mins to play a game
2. Continuation of play after a Team has won and there is no hope of an out-right. This usually results in games being played till well after 6pm and impacts not only on the social side of things for your club but also interacting with the opposition who are understandably not keen to come in for a drink after they've scrubbed up and see it is 7.30pm already! This also impacts on your Clubs away teams(lower grades) coming back to the club to share their stories which is just about the most enjoyable part of the day

So what happens is players lose interest because now cricket takes up 8rs instead of 6hrs, it get's all too hard to juggle work, family and cricket. Supporters/committee who are usually 1st there on a Saturday can't be expected to hang around until 8pm for away team players to come back to the club to discuss the days events. Clubs question how they can improve this and the answer is play closer to home, get interactive with other local teams, form relationships, rivalries. All of a sudden players who know each other locally are playing against each other which creates interest from other family members, workmates ect.....

At the end of the day does it really matter what comp you play in, what grade you play in, this is Local cricket and although we all want to win a flag, no.1 criteria is enjoyment.

So my simple suggestion to the VTCA is scrap the bonus points system(go back to %) which would give Captains the option of finishing games once a result has been reached, this may make a difference to retaining clubs.

Over & Out
Click to expand...

This post is the exact issue South Clubs face our President walked in on Parkdales Jimmy Seeary and Old Mentones Sven Samild with Russell Pollock at the Bentleigh RSL three weeks ago now I suspect they were informing the VTCA of their move.At the Senior Division 2nds GF the rumours were rife that OMs were going citing travel points cap match points 2nds standard in Senior was poor that opposition 2nds were having 8 9 10 players at times during games at Mentone Grammer. On this site it was claimed it was a joke now it seems that it is correct.All Clubs struggle for volunteers as cutover slips stated clubs will continue to fold or leave until the VTCA make some hard decisions.I loved the Senior concept pre my own business wife and family.We will see this coming season if playing in the South reinvigorates our Club.1st XI Senior players get paid so travel is an expectation 2nds is for love sadly at my Club and most of our opposition the faces are getting older and older is that the case in South 2nds probably not.
 
bonus points must go said:
best summary of the issues I've read cutter.. we have to accept that in 2013 fewer players are able/willing to commit their summers to playing cricket and the VTCA rules make it an even greater commitment. It looks to me from the dropping club/team numbers in the VT & CMCA the game is struggling in the south east, is this the case around Melbourne?

I can see ways for us to enjoy our cricket more in some of the great ideas above. I hope this board is read by those who matter b4 it's too late.
Click to expand...
Why is it a problem for you as a 2nds player who doesn't travel
 
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