Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Can't stand Kallis due to his batting style, along with Dravid possibly the most dullest bastman to watch at international level.

Don't mind his bowling though.

I don't see much wrong with his batting style TBH.

Sure he gets bogged down at times but he has magnificent stroke play and when he dominates it is a pretty site.

I think alot is said about the speed of his batting but it is not that big of an issue IMO.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

I think Kallis is the most genuine all rounder in the bunch.

Based on the fact that if he couldn't bat you would still pick him for his bowling and if he couldn't bowl you would still pick him for his batting. His bowling ability is statsically equal to that of Brett Lee's which is freakish when you think about it.

However Sobers was an outstanding batsman but I am not sure if he couldn't bat whether he would get picked for his bowling solely.

Especially with his stats of:
235 wickets @ 34.03
Cmon who can honestly say thay would pick a slow left arm bowler with an average of 34.03 in as their specialist spinner.

Where as Kallis:
252 wickets @ 31.12
is a much better bowler.

So I am saying that Sobers is a better batsman but Kallis' bowling wins it for him in the all rounder status.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Kallis is a good player but he just doesn't have the all round ability that Sobers had. True, Kallis may have the better bowling average but you have to remember that Sobers continued to bowl even when 'past it' because the team required it of him.

If he had been able to lessen his workload during his later years then I'm sure his average would have been close to if not better than Kallis. Anyway, we are talking a 2 or so runs per wicket so it's not a massive difference.

I disagree I think Kallis' best bowling days are past him too yet he continues to bowl as South Africa need him. Without him they would have 3 seamers and a spinner.

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

However Sobers was an outstanding batsman but I am not sure if he couldn't bat whether he would get picked for his bowling solely.

Sobers had three forms of delivery and indeed would have made the WI side for his bowling alone.

As a batsman he was great, as a bowler, merely superb, but would have made the West Indies side as a bowler alone. He was remarkably versatile with the ball, bowling two styles of spin - left-arm orthodox and wrist spin, but was also a fine fast-medium opening bowler

Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Sir Garry Sobers

We get it though, you rate Kallis over Sobers, you make a valid and sound argument. Excellent work.

 

[Dirk Kuyt]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Gavin Robertson considered him an all rounder.

Unlucky not to be labelled the best ever batsmen, bowler, fielder and all rounder ever in cricket history

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Gavin Robertson considered him an all rounder.

Unlucky not to be labelled the best ever batsmen, bowler, fielder and all rounder ever in cricket history

Who, Sobers?

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

You assuming I don't watch Kallis play.

Your first mistake.

The guy is magnificent, a great player who has dispatched attacks all over the park and bowled so tight when his country has needed him. Has what some call the magic arm, breaks opposing teams partnerships up when required.

Secondly no one gets out on purpose, unless they are fixing the game. To say he gets out "to give the other guys in the team a turn" is a tad unrealistic and completely fabricated to suit your Kallis argument.

I was being reasonable and do recommend you look up Sobers stats.

Test Runs 8032 HS 365* AVG 57.78

Test Wickets 235 AVG 34.03


Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Sir Garry Sobers

That is where it will be left. @|

The quote about Cricket Genius is wrong. Sobers would not have been pixked in the west indies side as a bowler alone. Their best spinner in that period was Lance Gibbs who was an off spinner who took 309 wickets @ 29.09 which is better than sobers. Kallis would however still be picked in the south African side for his bowling even if his batting average was half of what it is.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Sobers had three forms of delivery and indeed would have made the WI side for his bowling alone.



Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Sir Garry Sobers

We get it though, you rate Kallis over Sobers, you make a valid and sound argument. Excellent work.

Oh terrific Sobers had 3 forms of delivery that must make him a great bowler. Who doesen't have 3 forms of delivery these days.

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Like I said, you rate Kallis over Sobers.

Power to you. @|

But for you to say that quote is wrong, well, I'm not going to believe a passionate South African supporter over a CricInfo site which has credibility am I.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Kallis is a good player but he just doesn't have the all round ability that Sobers had. True, Kallis may have the better bowling average but you have to remember that Sobers continued to bowl even when 'past it' because the team required it of him.

This was not exactly the case Mas. Lance Gibbs was a better bowler than Sobers and was in the team 4 years in to the start of Sober's career and retired after.

So Sobers didn't keep bowling because it was required of him, because there was always a better spinner in the side.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Like I said, you rate Kallis over Sobers.

Power to you. @|

But for you to say that quote is wrong, well, I'm not going to believe a passionate South African supporter over a CricInfo site which has credibility am I.

Well no you're not when the passionate South African supporter knows that the west indies had a better spin bowler than Sobers so if it wasn't for his batting, Sobers would not have been included in the side, sorry to say it.

It would have been like a Warne, Macgill situation.

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Sobers so if it wasn't for his batting, Sobers would not have been included in the side, sorry to say it.

You simply don't know that.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

You simply dont know that.

End of story.

Obviously I do because I knew that the West Indies had another spinner that was one of the best spinners the game has seen.

Unless every test was played in India or on grounds where two spinners were required then Sobers would not have got a game unless Gibbs were injured or other, sorry.

 

[Dirk Kuyt]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

No Biggie.

I'm referring to Gavin Robertson being the greatest batsman, bowler, fielder and all rounder and commentator of all time.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

And Kallis was the 4th best bowler wicket wise and the 5th best average wise (not including players that weren't bowlers or didn't have a permanent fixture in the side) in South African cricket through out his career so if he was a bowler he would constanly be getting selected where as Sobers would not have.

Point proven.

End of story.

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Disagree. Nothing obvious about it.

Sobers was a genuine ALL ROUNDER the best the world has ever seen.

To say Cricinfo is wrong and you are right, it doesnt sit well with me sorry. That is where you made your error.

Thanks. @|

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

No Biggie.

I'm referring to Gavin Robertson being the greatest batsman, bowler, fielder and all rounder and commentator of all time.

Lol.

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

Disagree. Nothing obvious about it.

Sobers was a genuine ALL ROUNDER the best the world has ever seen.

To say Cricinfo is wrong and you are right, it doesnt sit well with me sorry. That is where you made your error.

Thanks. @|

Sorry but I am being realistic they had a better spin bowler so why on earth would he get picked.

Just because Cricinfo says something doesn't mean that it is true sorry. Especially in this case.

Can you suggest any posibble reason why if Sobers couldn't bat he would have been picked in the team over a better off spinner ? (bar injury or pitch conditions).

If not then my point is valid he would not have got a run without his batting ability fair and square.

 

[Biggie]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

What?? So now Sobers, the worlds greatest All rounder doesnt get a spot in the WI side because there was a better spin bowler in the side??

I dont make assumptions like yourself based on stats. I certainly wasnt alive to watch the two eras of cricket. I cannot possibly comment unless I have read something on CricInfo, a credible source. I will back Cricinfo over a "knowledgeable" poster on BigCricket, all day every day.

Thanks for your time, but this debate has run its course.

And for the record, Sobers would pip Kallis in the worlds best XI for the AR spot. @|

 

[grapedo]

Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever

What?? So now Sobers, the worlds greatest All rounder doesnt get a spot in the WI side because there was a better spin bowler in the side??

I dont make assumptions like yourself based on stats. I certainly wasnt alive to watch the two eras of cricket. I cannot possibly comment unless I have read something on CricInfo, a credible source. I will back Cricinfo over a "knowledgeable" poster on BigCricket, all day every day.

Thanks for your time, but this debate has run its course.

And for the record, Sobers would pip Kallis in the worlds best XI for the AR spot. @|

Perhaps if you read a post properly you would see that I said the best way to judge is you take away one ability and see if the remaining ability would still merit their selcetion in Kallis' case it applies because he would. I then proved that Sobers wouldn't because they had a much better spin bowler than him.

You then kept referring to your cricinfo quote which said he would but obviously he wouldn't because they had a better bowler.

And based on this fact Sobers would not get that all rounder spot, perhaps only in your world 11.