Leg Spin

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Re: Leg Spin

Whoa! Who said I've got it mastered - strewth!!

Blimey! Okay so I like a bit of leg spin - do it every hour God gives me, do it indoors in the kitchen living room at work and walk around like a mental case with a ball in my hand flipping it and spinning it and practice in the freezing cold in the dark etc - but I've far from mastered it!

I want to master it - I want to be able to pitch the ball into specific areas 5 times out of 6 and make it spin in the required direction at will - but man, this is one of the hardest things ever and I think you'll find a lot of people that will acknowledge this is the case! It doesn't come quickly and as you're probably finding out just as you get one aspect of it right something starts to go wrong elsewhere and that's not even considering the psychological aspect of seeing 4,5 maybe even 6 consecutive balls being batted for 4's and 6's and your whole teams shoulders and chins droop!

Today for example - a decent session on wet grass in the freezing cold and all my top spinners flew off to leg like Wrong Uns? Why, how? It just happens some days it works one way and then another day it all comes right or all undoes! But you pick yourself up and you just keep going practicing and practicing before work, during work, after work after your dinner until your rotator cuff dies and you can't do it anymore!

No - I'm no expert just someone who's obsessed with the idea that they might be able to be half decent at it and make a contribution to the teams success. My teams top wicket taker took something like 28 wickets last season and he's a Leg Spinner - I want his title I just need to average a wicket per match and I'll be a contender.

The whole thing is on-going I'm no master at this!
 
Re: Leg Spin

This sounds interesting - it's off our clubs website -

We are now in the process readying all the necessary documentation. The club will pay nothing in money or goodwill and it was decided that the gamble was worth taking as he may be an extremely useful addition. His name is Krishnendu Mitra, aged 26. He plays Calcutta first division cricket (which is a feeder to their state sides) where he opens the batting and bowls leg-spin. Remember we are completely new at this so nothing is signed, sealed and delivered until he arrives but we believe it is a positive move for the club and shows our intention to move forward and improve our playing strength.

The bloke bowls Leg Spin. Needless to say the focus of his involvement will be our 1st teams, so whether he'll spend any time with the rest of us I don't know - but if he does that'll be a result.

This is quite a common arrangement I've been led to believe in the past - what's the deal usually?
 
Re: Leg Spin

They come over to get experience of English conditions, you get (well should, you never quite know in these matters) a decent player who 'should' help out with coaching.

Generally, most overseas are more than happy to help out, if it's not part of the deal then you just have to ask!
 
Re: Leg Spin

I've had a good session today out on the grass see www.mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com .It looks as though the practice I've been putting in over the winter using the Hockey Balls on concrete and tarmac is paying off as I was very consistent today with good line and length and was hitting the stumps loads or getting the ball to turn right across the face of the stumps.

One thing I found that I mentioned earlier at some point is that my top spinners readily seem to turn into Wrong Uns if I just twist my wrist slightly without even trying to impart the spin? I'm not that bothered because both the top-spinner and the wrong un are currently spot on with regards line and length.

I also had a go with the Leg Break which is coming together bit by bit. After the session out in the field I played a bit of backyard cricket with my sons and was really turning the ball bowling leg breaks using a tennis ball, so I feel confident that with continued practice and shoulder/rotator cuff exercises it'll come together before April 20th.

Flippers were working well also.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Sounds like you're making really good progress - its amazing what a bit of practice can do. :D

If you can bowl the top spinner or wrong 'un with only a slight change to your action then you could be onto a winner! Would make them fairly difficult to pick up which can only be a good thing.
 
Re: Leg Spin

No initially when your arm as your side as you walk in your hand is cocked (I'll have to stand up and go through the action) so your arm is turned inwards with your palm facing the side of your body. Well that's how mine is - but I'm not much cop at legbreak, so someone else may have other ideas?
 
Re: Leg Spin

Brought back down to earth......

Our team has started nets already, unfortunately it's Tuesday nights at 9pm and I work till 9pm and can't get there till 9.45 if drive like a psycho. Tonight though as it's half term and all the students are off for a week I'm not lecturing this week and was able to go.

As my earlier post mentioned I had a really good day out on grass today and I went to the nets quietly confident that I'd do okay.........

Nightmare! I don't know what happens - I seem to do okay outside on the grass and then when I get inside much of what I do goes wrong? Is it that I'm intimidated by the fact that so many people are watching? If so this isn't good. Somehow I've got to take some positives from tonight.

Our best Leg Spinner was there tonight and he made some observations about my bowling which was really helpful.


Although I'm going to make a whole bunch of excuses now for how crap I was, but I do acknowledge what was said and will make an effort to do something about it.

One of the points Neil raised was that my walk in is wrong - I was doing the walk in and stop thing like I was doing last year in the nets. As far as I know when I bowl on grass I'm not as bad? But I would definitely acknowledge that if I'm trying to bowl Leg Breaks I do pull up short and have no follow through. I think what was happening tonight I was aware of the fact that My trainers were a bit slippery and I didn't want to go arse over tit. But once Neil had mentioned it and said give it a go and follow through I tried it and he said there was a difference/improvement. So I'll have to try this out. What I need to do is figure out how the little video camera I bought works and use it when I'm out on grass and check to see what my bowling looks like?

The other really frustrating thing was that I wasn't able to bowl a single flipper anywhere near the stumps, they all went flying off to Leg about 10 yards too long - why? God knows what I was doing? Yet earlier today on grass I was hitting the stumps and getting the ball to spin from leg to off all the time.

The more I think about it - it seems I get the yips when the pressure is on to perform. Yeah - this could be it - when I'm out on a field bowling on my own everything is fine. As soon as someone comes along and starts watching me it all goes to pieces - I start trying too hard. This is an observation I made earlier in the year, if I do things in a really relaxed manner it works fine, but as soon as I try and do stuff with a heightened sense of determination it all goes horribly wrong. So some how I've got to switch off from thinking about what I'm doing and who might be watching and just do it in a really relaxed and uninhibited manner.

So positives from tonight -

1. Other people in the team do care and do offer advice and encouragement and this bodes well for the new season especially if I can get out on the field prior to matches and practice.
2. The Flipper aside, my Top-spinners and Wrong Uns were fairly accurate and this is while everyone was watching.
3. I've now been made aware of the fact that my walk-in is problematic and I need to look at that as an issue as well.

Additionally........

4. If I get the Gloucester Park blokes all playing this summer in the evenings there's going to have to be some positive outcome to playing with and against them - the bloke who joined me on Sunday within a matter of minutes was giving me advice that seemed to make a lot of sense.

I just wish I didn't have to work on Tuesday nights as this means tonight will probably be my one and only net session - gutted.

One last thing - the balls; I've been discussing the size of balls with people on the internet and I know there are differences in sizes and I've mentioned it before in the context of playing with G&CCC saying that in the past the balls they use seem to be bigger. I seem to have to distinct sizes amongst my collection and when I'm trying to practice seriously I go for the bigger ones as they seem like "Real" size balls, but tonight I noticed (The flipper especially) the balls they were using seemed enormous! The flipper is the variation with the flick between the fingers and the smaller the ball is the easier it is to do this. Tonight not one of my flippers was anywhere near being acceptable - is it a size issue as well? I'm convinced it is.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Nets can do that to you. You have it nailed on grass then go indoors and it falls to pieces. Seriously, in nets I can hardly hold a bat, outdoors I almost look like a batsman!

As for the ball size thing, its a strange one. I 100% agree that balls can feel different but have never experienced it to the same extent as you seem to. I think I said elsewhere that the age of the ball does play a part in how big it feels as they do expand with wear and tear - which normally accounts for why balls used in nets feel odd.

It might be worth while keeping an eye out for a ball gauge - new they cost about £10 - 20 I'm sure I've seen them cheaper and I dare say you'll find one on e-bay for next to nothing. If you have one then it would at least give you a chance to measure them and see if any are really 'out'.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Hey dave, and any one else that can answer my question, I would make a new thread but theres no point when this is here.

My weakness is spin, yup. I can't pick anything. Maybe the odd arm ball and my club spinners 'medium pace' ball, but nothing else. What should I watch for, any changes in his wrist position or delivery when he bowls the toppy and the wrong-un, apart from the seam as it's coming towards me..

Thanks.
 
Re: Leg Spin

I reckon there's probably loads of give aways if you look carefully enough, especially if you're playing someone who's less experienced like myself. It'd be interesting to have someone else comment who bowls maybe 2 or more variations and does so with a lot of confidence, as they may be able to write about this with more knowledge?

Back to me as I am at this stage in my development. I would imagine that if you were a batsman one of the easiest things you could spot with me would be the accentuated "Cocked wrist" prior to setting up a Wrong Un. I visualise what I'm going to do before I bowl, but I also flick the ball in my hand in the style that I'm going to bowl, so if did know me you'd be able to see the cocked wrist prior to bowling the wrong un with venom. Sitting here writing I'm pretty certain that 9 times out of 10 I'd be throwing the ball from hand to hand flipping it backwarrds prior to a flipper.

The Top spinner in my case and possibly others and I think this even includes Warne is that the arm is more vertical, if you're able to pick the hand position up - the back of the hand is going to face you with that delivery if it's going to be a wrong un, in my case they're a vertical arm with the wrist twisted slightly.

I'd imagine that if I was really good at any of these and playing at a high level it would be necessary to hide a lot of the dead give aways - especially spinning the ball from hand to hand in the style of the next delivery!

Re-cap and I might be telling you stuff that you already know with this -

1. The straight ball - top spinner will come at you with a fairly vertical arm and the hand side on leading with the thumb on release.

2. The Leg Break - The palm of the hand will face you as the ball is released and the arm possibly coming round a lot lower than vertical.

3. The flipper - not so sure but at the point of release the palm of the hand covered by all the fingers closed across it?

4. The wrong un - vertical arm and the back of the hand as the ball is released.

5. The slider - not one that I do much and I'm not even sure I do it right when I do bowl it - but it might look like an ordinary seam bowler action - but the fingers are the wrong way across the seam.

Any good? It'd be nice if others chipped in with their comments.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Offering my two pence, I just want to say that the ability to flight the ball, pitching it up and getting it to spin (no matter how small) is more important than any variation or change in pace. Batsman will get themselves out stumped and caught. There is no need to attempt outfox one, unless he has shown himself to be a worthy foe.
 
Re: Leg Spin

You don't need a perfect seam to spin it, you your just need enough flight and revolutions for it to spin. Also a good pitch.
 
Re: Leg Spin

someblokecalleddave said:
As for Seans Wrong Un. I'd stick with your leg break and practice that the most. If you're looking for another variation the Top-spinner would be the one I'd recommend as it's pretty much the same ball as the Leg break but with the hand twisted round just a bit and maybe your arm more vertical. Have a look at the Leg Spin videos on youtube the 2 x Terry Jenner clips and the Shane Warne clip off of the Cricket Show in OZ. If you watch these you'll see the difference in the hand positions (The Flipper is on there as well).

I reckon if you can crack the Top-spinner and still keep your Leg Break turning in nicely to off it might an idea them to look at the Wrong Un. But in the short term leave the Wrong Un.

The reason I say this is that each transition from one to the other Leg Break to Top - spinner to Wrong Un is just a case of the wrist being turned slightly more. I find that if you bowl the top spinner with a really straight arm my wrist only has to be slightly angled more towards the wrong un position and it starts to turn to leg, they all seem to follow on from each other. It'd be interesting to hear if other people agree?

Does anyone bowl sliders?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but thing is. I used to be able to bowl it, and it would spin alot; now it's gone.
 
Re: Leg Spin

manee said:
It is a ball squeezed out of the front of the hand with the thumb and first and second fingers - hence spinning backwards; causing a float and then skid off the pitch. Richie Benaud does not recommend the ball to anyone with not fully developed shoulders.
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Guess I won't be bowling that then. :p
 
Re: Leg Spin

someblokecalleddave said:
That's interesting that Benaud says that about the flipper. What's his theory?
Click to expand...

Not sure, just distinctly remember him saying it on a masterclass video (hosted by Tony Lewis IIRC), quite a while ago.
 
Re: Leg Spin

I think if like me you try and learn all the different variations over a short period of time you run the risk of losing some of them. I'm sure that if you were coached properly by someone they'd tell you to stick at the Leg Break till you had it virtually perfected before moving onto any of the variations. I'm not sure what to suggest with regards losing one of your variations? Maybe leave it for a while work on what you've already got and go back to it in a couple of months and see what happens?
 
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