Leg Spin
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Actually - I just want to say - cheers for replying to all my questions relating to Leg Spin as it's not specifically your area of interest. It's really appreciated that you reply and especially appreciated from the point of view that you've just made there as the batsman - cheers!
Actually - I just want to say - cheers for replying to all my questions relating to Leg Spin as it's not specifically your area of interest. It's really appreciated that you reply and especially appreciated from the point of view that you've just made there as the batsman - cheers!
Re: Leg Spin
I find as a bowler, it helps to see it from a batsmens point of view, if a flat quick one comes, it usually means easy runs, but for those good spinners, they can get me, because i take a big swipe, and i edge it because i'm confident.
That spinner who just took my wicket knows he has the upper hand because he is one of the few people who can bowl a good quick flat one, so all those rubbish players are helping him, by building the confidence of batsmen, and the spinner whos good comes and tears it down with one brilliant devistating ball.
I'm sure you know that spinning is all about building, you dont go out there to take a wicket first ball, its about building the tension, building the uncertainty, and ultimately, holding down one end whilst preferably a good quick bowler is roughing them up at the other!
But yeah, any questions i'll thrilled to answer, just as i have previously. If you've got a question on how best to bowl a quick flatter one, then yeah i can answer it, i think :laugh:
I find as a bowler, it helps to see it from a batsmens point of view, if a flat quick one comes, it usually means easy runs, but for those good spinners, they can get me, because i take a big swipe, and i edge it because i'm confident.
That spinner who just took my wicket knows he has the upper hand because he is one of the few people who can bowl a good quick flat one, so all those rubbish players are helping him, by building the confidence of batsmen, and the spinner whos good comes and tears it down with one brilliant devistating ball.
I'm sure you know that spinning is all about building, you dont go out there to take a wicket first ball, its about building the tension, building the uncertainty, and ultimately, holding down one end whilst preferably a good quick bowler is roughing them up at the other!
But yeah, any questions i'll thrilled to answer, just as i have previously. If you've got a question on how best to bowl a quick flatter one, then yeah i can answer it, i think :laugh:
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Simbazz, last summer all I did was bowl flippers as my stock ball and yeah you're right - if they were a bit wayward I was being knocked all over the park. In practice I always found that the flighty version seemed to be a better option especially when mixed in with the occasional faster and flatter one. But last season as I was new to all of the this I was always a bit tense in the matches and always seemed to end up falling to pieces and bowling much faster and flatter and invariably not on target.
Since the end of the season as you're no doubt aware I've been concentrating on spot bowling and getting my top spinner as best I can with the intention that this will be my stock ball. So far this has been coming along really well and even this afternoon in the drizzle I had 15 minutes of practicing and was really pleased at the accuracy I'm gradually developing with this ball.
It's this ball that I'm hoping will be the one that I'm going to be able to put on the spot at the right length and play around with - slower, faster, shorter longer etc in order as you say to build tension and uncertainty - I don't know how you feel that would work? For all I know as a batsman you might be faced with someone like me and think "The blokes only bowling top spinners" and find it really easy to deal with? But.... I'm pretty handy with Wrong Uns and flippers and it's these that are going to be used to unsettle the batsman or take the wicket using them as a surprise tactic. I'm thinking if I'm bowling consistent Top Spinners different flight and speed, but all relatively slow the random use of the flipper which is a ball I can deliver with a really slow walk in but the pace is so much faster that then skids in really low it's that type of ball along with the Wrong Un that will get the respect of the batsman - does that sound like a plan?
Simbazz, last summer all I did was bowl flippers as my stock ball and yeah you're right - if they were a bit wayward I was being knocked all over the park. In practice I always found that the flighty version seemed to be a better option especially when mixed in with the occasional faster and flatter one. But last season as I was new to all of the this I was always a bit tense in the matches and always seemed to end up falling to pieces and bowling much faster and flatter and invariably not on target.
Since the end of the season as you're no doubt aware I've been concentrating on spot bowling and getting my top spinner as best I can with the intention that this will be my stock ball. So far this has been coming along really well and even this afternoon in the drizzle I had 15 minutes of practicing and was really pleased at the accuracy I'm gradually developing with this ball.
It's this ball that I'm hoping will be the one that I'm going to be able to put on the spot at the right length and play around with - slower, faster, shorter longer etc in order as you say to build tension and uncertainty - I don't know how you feel that would work? For all I know as a batsman you might be faced with someone like me and think "The blokes only bowling top spinners" and find it really easy to deal with? But.... I'm pretty handy with Wrong Uns and flippers and it's these that are going to be used to unsettle the batsman or take the wicket using them as a surprise tactic. I'm thinking if I'm bowling consistent Top Spinners different flight and speed, but all relatively slow the random use of the flipper which is a ball I can deliver with a really slow walk in but the pace is so much faster that then skids in really low it's that type of ball along with the Wrong Un that will get the respect of the batsman - does that sound like a plan?
Re: Leg Spin
Woah Dave, i'm so glad you ask questions with such detail because it makes my job easier.
If a batsmen spots that all your bowling is top spinners his confidence will soar, and ultimately you'll get knocked about.
The ways to combat that is to vary the topspinner, be it line or length, or just a quicker one. The thing is, if you go into a routine to say;
Ball 1; Quick
Ball 2; Slow short...etc
You'll just crumble when it doesnt start to work. Spinning as i keep saying is a mental game. You need to learn that a routine wont help as from ball to ball the situation changes, you need to be clever about it.
Going into your wrong 'un and your flipper they're cracking balls to slip in, especially if the batsmens getting comfortable, chuck in a quick fizzing wrong 'un then you're set!
How good are you at a leg spinner? Seeing as you are a leg spinner by nature.
Woah Dave, i'm so glad you ask questions with such detail because it makes my job easier.
If a batsmen spots that all your bowling is top spinners his confidence will soar, and ultimately you'll get knocked about.
The ways to combat that is to vary the topspinner, be it line or length, or just a quicker one. The thing is, if you go into a routine to say;
Ball 1; Quick
Ball 2; Slow short...etc
You'll just crumble when it doesnt start to work. Spinning as i keep saying is a mental game. You need to learn that a routine wont help as from ball to ball the situation changes, you need to be clever about it.
Going into your wrong 'un and your flipper they're cracking balls to slip in, especially if the batsmens getting comfortable, chuck in a quick fizzing wrong 'un then you're set!
How good are you at a leg spinner? Seeing as you are a leg spinner by nature.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Sean - same as Simbazz - what part is going wrong?
1. Do you feel like it's coming out of the hand with loads of spin and then not actually hitting the ground and not deviating off it's line?
2. Or you can't get it to spin out of your hand?
What type of spin are you talking here - Leg Spin or one of your other variations?
Sean - same as Simbazz - what part is going wrong?
1. Do you feel like it's coming out of the hand with loads of spin and then not actually hitting the ground and not deviating off it's line?
2. Or you can't get it to spin out of your hand?
What type of spin are you talking here - Leg Spin or one of your other variations?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Simbazz you asked - "How good are you at a leg spinner? Seeing as you are a leg spinner by nature".
Yeah this is a good point and I've been asking myself am I in fact a Leg Spin bowler? I started out naturally bowling Leg Spin and was okay at it, but then discovered all the variations and was really taken by the fact that loads of people were in awe of the Flipper and the fact that some people historically even disputed it's existance! I've never met anyone else that bowls it either and this is despite asking questions on forums about it loads of times. So after starting out with the normal "Leg Break" I learned how to do the Flipper next and found it really easy and relatively accurate to bowl. I spent hours, weeks and months perfecting it this time last year and neglected my "Leg Break". Then when it came to bowling the Leg Break again - basically I couldn't! Then kind of stuck with the Flipper on it's own I though I 've got to have at least one other variation if not more and again went for the difficult option and chose to learn the "Wrong Un" and again this came really easy. In between I ocassionally reverted back to trying to re-discover my Leg Break and just couldn't (Same sort of problem Sean's now having). I then sussed out the Top Spinner and the Slider at a rudimentary level but was never able to re-discover the Leg Break.
So all last summer I bowled the Flipper as my stock ball with the Wrong as a surprise element every now and then.
Right - so this is the question that I've been asking all year and never had anyone answer..... "The Flipper" does anyone else bowl the Flipper and find that it turns from Leg to Off? Becuase mine does and does so acutely on different surfaces with different balls in practice and on really green wickets?
Whereas in game situations on a dry dusty wicket as our home pitch was all year last summer I couldn't get the Flipper to turn as it did in practice and as a consequence as I've said before I had a nightmare season being knocked for 4 all summer! More importantly I had my confidence knocked for 4!
So - if I can't bowl a Leg Break as my stock ball - does that therefore mean I'm not really a "leg Spinner"?
Simbazz you asked - "How good are you at a leg spinner? Seeing as you are a leg spinner by nature".
Yeah this is a good point and I've been asking myself am I in fact a Leg Spin bowler? I started out naturally bowling Leg Spin and was okay at it, but then discovered all the variations and was really taken by the fact that loads of people were in awe of the Flipper and the fact that some people historically even disputed it's existance! I've never met anyone else that bowls it either and this is despite asking questions on forums about it loads of times. So after starting out with the normal "Leg Break" I learned how to do the Flipper next and found it really easy and relatively accurate to bowl. I spent hours, weeks and months perfecting it this time last year and neglected my "Leg Break". Then when it came to bowling the Leg Break again - basically I couldn't! Then kind of stuck with the Flipper on it's own I though I 've got to have at least one other variation if not more and again went for the difficult option and chose to learn the "Wrong Un" and again this came really easy. In between I ocassionally reverted back to trying to re-discover my Leg Break and just couldn't (Same sort of problem Sean's now having). I then sussed out the Top Spinner and the Slider at a rudimentary level but was never able to re-discover the Leg Break.
So all last summer I bowled the Flipper as my stock ball with the Wrong as a surprise element every now and then.
Right - so this is the question that I've been asking all year and never had anyone answer..... "The Flipper" does anyone else bowl the Flipper and find that it turns from Leg to Off? Becuase mine does and does so acutely on different surfaces with different balls in practice and on really green wickets?
Whereas in game situations on a dry dusty wicket as our home pitch was all year last summer I couldn't get the Flipper to turn as it did in practice and as a consequence as I've said before I had a nightmare season being knocked for 4 all summer! More importantly I had my confidence knocked for 4!
So - if I can't bowl a Leg Break as my stock ball - does that therefore mean I'm not really a "leg Spinner"?
Re: Leg Spin
Ok, after reading this, one thing screams through my head.
You have the leg spin variants, but you don't have the stock ball. This is prety, i wouldn't say worrying, but for a leg spinner not being able to bowl it, then it isn't effective, you need one ball which spins, and when i say spin, i mean its the ball you fall back on when everything else fails.
So, my suggestion, just how good are you at offspin? Because you can keep all your variants of legspin, and if you can spin using offspin, then i'd say we're onto a Sachin Tendulkar kind of moments, where you can use both.
Ok, after reading this, one thing screams through my head.
You have the leg spin variants, but you don't have the stock ball. This is prety, i wouldn't say worrying, but for a leg spinner not being able to bowl it, then it isn't effective, you need one ball which spins, and when i say spin, i mean its the ball you fall back on when everything else fails.
So, my suggestion, just how good are you at offspin? Because you can keep all your variants of legspin, and if you can spin using offspin, then i'd say we're onto a Sachin Tendulkar kind of moments, where you can use both.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Yeah my Wrong Un's good, but I find it really demanding physically. The flick I put on it at the very end of the delivery kind resonates up the full length of my arm and causes me problems, so I wouldn't want to use it as my stock ball.
I have mentioned several posts ago that I'd re-visited the Terry Jenner videos that are on line (BBC and Coverdale) for the first time in months and months and had noticed what he was saying about where the hand is when delivering the Leg Break. When I saw this I'd gone out and was trying it a bit and around the house and it seemed to make sense, so maybe having seen these videos I maybe be able to put some practice in with the leg break and possibly bowl it again?
But going back to the Flipper on most surfaces I can bowl this ball leg side and get it to turn across the face of the wicket to off exactly like a Leg break ball but much lower - so surely that would substitute the Leg break as long as I was able to bowl the other variants?
Yeah my Wrong Un's good, but I find it really demanding physically. The flick I put on it at the very end of the delivery kind resonates up the full length of my arm and causes me problems, so I wouldn't want to use it as my stock ball.
I have mentioned several posts ago that I'd re-visited the Terry Jenner videos that are on line (BBC and Coverdale) for the first time in months and months and had noticed what he was saying about where the hand is when delivering the Leg Break. When I saw this I'd gone out and was trying it a bit and around the house and it seemed to make sense, so maybe having seen these videos I maybe be able to put some practice in with the leg break and possibly bowl it again?
But going back to the Flipper on most surfaces I can bowl this ball leg side and get it to turn across the face of the wicket to off exactly like a Leg break ball but much lower - so surely that would substitute the Leg break as long as I was able to bowl the other variants?
Sean
New Member
Re: Leg Spin
Leg spin.
It seems to come out well out of the hand, but when it lands, it doesn't spin. Only the occasional one spins a bit off the pitch. But no where near as much as it used to.
I bowl on the same green artificial pitches.
Even when I try and flight it, it doesn't spin that much.
someblokecalleddave said:
Leg spin.
It seems to come out well out of the hand, but when it lands, it doesn't spin. Only the occasional one spins a bit off the pitch. But no where near as much as it used to.
I bowl on the same green artificial pitches.
Even when I try and flight it, it doesn't spin that much.
charlie_123
New Member
Re: Leg Spin
when i used to bowl leg spin with the normal release, it was spinning quite a bit to start with, then after about a month it started coming out with the seam upright every time so more like a top spinner.
the only use i found for this was to get people fielding in close around the bat then constantly pitch it on the stumps and just outside off stump then you sometimes get the bat/pad or one that hits high on the bat then pops up into the air.
i resolved my leg spin problem by trying to bowl off spin and it span loads to the left after pitching, but sometimes but rarely spins to the right. so worked out ok
Sean said:Leg spin.
It seems to come out well out of the hand, but when it lands, it doesn't spin. Only the occasional one spins a bit off the pitch. But no where near as much as it used to.
I bowl on the same green artificial pitches.
Even when I try and flight it, it doesn't spin that much.
when i used to bowl leg spin with the normal release, it was spinning quite a bit to start with, then after about a month it started coming out with the seam upright every time so more like a top spinner.
the only use i found for this was to get people fielding in close around the bat then constantly pitch it on the stumps and just outside off stump then you sometimes get the bat/pad or one that hits high on the bat then pops up into the air.
i resolved my leg spin problem by trying to bowl off spin and it span loads to the left after pitching, but sometimes but rarely spins to the right. so worked out ok
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Simbazz - I'll give it a go. As I said I've just been flicking the ball around indoors (It's Pouring with rain at the moment) and I reckon I can release the ball with spin on it and get it to move off the pitch leg to off and as you say if I can do this it will give me that advantage of the additional bounce. Besides it would be a massive asset as that would mean I've got 5 different deliveries!
I reckon my Top Spinner is fairly sound now - so if I move towards putting more time in to getting the Leg Break back it's got to be a massive asset?
I'll give it a go and let you know how I get on.
Simbazz - I'll give it a go. As I said I've just been flicking the ball around indoors (It's Pouring with rain at the moment) and I reckon I can release the ball with spin on it and get it to move off the pitch leg to off and as you say if I can do this it will give me that advantage of the additional bounce. Besides it would be a massive asset as that would mean I've got 5 different deliveries!
I reckon my Top Spinner is fairly sound now - so if I move towards putting more time in to getting the Leg Break back it's got to be a massive asset?
I'll give it a go and let you know how I get on.
Re: Leg Spin
You need a routine in training, if you're confident with the topspinner, then give it 10 minutes every session just to fine tune it, and spend longer on the other variations.
Let me know how you go when we hit the summer. I suppose this thread is extremely deep in advice for the legspinners amoung us!
You need a routine in training, if you're confident with the topspinner, then give it 10 minutes every session just to fine tune it, and spend longer on the other variations.
Let me know how you go when we hit the summer. I suppose this thread is extremely deep in advice for the legspinners amoung us!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Sean - can you just flick the ball up in the air where you stand and see that it's spinning in the right direction and catch it? If you can - do the same thing and let it drop to the floor and then see if the spin you're putting on it means that it spins off in the right direction?
If it doesn't, it probably means that you're not flicking your wrist or getting enough purchase on the ball as you release it.
If it does deviate towards off when you let it drop, you may have the same problem that I've got with the leg break - which seems to be a release problem. I think what I've been doing wrong is - when the ball comes out of my hand it does so in a way that means the ball is spinning forwards more like a Top Spinner rather than spinning sideways as a Leg Break should. As mentioned before, if you look at the Terry Jenner Video
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlWYcuaTosc"]YouTube - Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass Spin Bowling tips 1[/ame]
on line 3.39 into the video he makes the distinction between the Leg Break and the Top Spinner saying "For the Leg break the palm faces the batsman".
Have a look at the video and see if that helps you?
With regards this thread - it's brilliant, just wish there were a few more people chipping in!
Sean - can you just flick the ball up in the air where you stand and see that it's spinning in the right direction and catch it? If you can - do the same thing and let it drop to the floor and then see if the spin you're putting on it means that it spins off in the right direction?
If it doesn't, it probably means that you're not flicking your wrist or getting enough purchase on the ball as you release it.
If it does deviate towards off when you let it drop, you may have the same problem that I've got with the leg break - which seems to be a release problem. I think what I've been doing wrong is - when the ball comes out of my hand it does so in a way that means the ball is spinning forwards more like a Top Spinner rather than spinning sideways as a Leg Break should. As mentioned before, if you look at the Terry Jenner Video
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlWYcuaTosc"]YouTube - Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass Spin Bowling tips 1[/ame]
on line 3.39 into the video he makes the distinction between the Leg Break and the Top Spinner saying "For the Leg break the palm faces the batsman".
Have a look at the video and see if that helps you?
With regards this thread - it's brilliant, just wish there were a few more people chipping in!
charlie_123
New Member
Re: Leg Spin
with the exception of me lol
i bowl leg spin with a off spin release 
sometimes spins in but rarely lol like i said. more of a defensive bowler then a wicket taking bowler though : \ but all the same to me, 10 overs for 23 runs with 3 or 4 maidens makes me happy lol.
with the exception of me lol
i bowl leg spin with a off spin release sometimes spins in but rarely lol like i said. more of a defensive bowler then a wicket taking bowler though : \ but all the same to me, 10 overs for 23 runs with 3 or 4 maidens makes me happy lol.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Simbazz - I've got loads of video footage of me bowling flippers on DV tape somewhere with the ball spinning away to off like a leg break. I'm not sure how complex it is to get the DV tape rendered (?) in order that the file size is small enough to post on You tube. It'd be nice to put links here of stuff like that. I noted the first post that Sean had put here had a link to a video clip but it no longer works.
Simbazz - I've got loads of video footage of me bowling flippers on DV tape somewhere with the ball spinning away to off like a leg break. I'm not sure how complex it is to get the DV tape rendered (?) in order that the file size is small enough to post on You tube. It'd be nice to put links here of stuff like that. I noted the first post that Sean had put here had a link to a video clip but it no longer works.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Leg Spin
Charlie if you can tell me how you hold down ten overs for 23 runs that'd be amazing - it's not something I can do! I'm a learner mate - I can write this theory stuff till the cows come home and I've got big plans for next season, but last season I was crap! So share the knowledge mate!
Charlie if you can tell me how you hold down ten overs for 23 runs that'd be amazing - it's not something I can do! I'm a learner mate - I can write this theory stuff till the cows come home and I've got big plans for next season, but last season I was crap! So share the knowledge mate!
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