only Yanks can revitalize world cricket

[Zebedee]

Re: only Yanks can revitalize world cricket

What do you mean, "without" America? We have countless rec leagues, a professional league, players in the EPL and in European leagues, and a national team that qualifies for the World Cup. America may not have caused the revitalization in soccer, but we've participated in it.

I am sorry Stamislav, my point wasn't strictly one about football, I was trying to answer the point that cricket might be revitalized by the US. From that premise I was saying, by comparison, that no matter how football got to the position it's in today, it wasn't because of the promise of the 1994 world cup. Which despite promised benefits didn't deliver the pot 'o' gold. That was delivered by football elsewhere worldwide. And when I say "worldwide" I equally include" many US players.

American players have most certainly participated in the "revitalization" but that has not been a US revitalization. For the rest of the world Football has been an enthusiastic progression into new territory. That progression has been achieved without the US as a sporting nation, but with individual players. The US has a great football culture, but despite the 94 World Cup promise, it delivered little. And, I ask why should it now be different for cricket?

If 'soccer' is obscure to most Americans

It isn't.

Professional Soccer is obscure - in the everyday sense- to most Americans as a spectator, non-niche sport. But you should have noted that I did say; "If Soccer is obscure,...then Cricket is from another planet", it was a comapartive statement about Cricket, not a statement about Football.

The only way you get such fans is if an American win in the world cup is manufactured, or they get some easy wins in "special test status" games. (Or Twenty/20 games or ODIs)

You answered and agreed with my point above by saying

No, I think the problem is deeper than that. Nobody in America even noticed when we qualified for the Champions Trophy a few years ago.

You'd agreee surely that the way to overcome the problem you highlight, for the general public, would be to ensure the US had a 'regular' place at the top table so that they were noticed? Just as it has become the case in soccer of recent years, and the US football team has made it's own way in this, but in cricket it's hard to get a top class game no matter how good you are. Unless it's been arranged for whatever reason.

No one can argue that the greatest economic and cultural thing about the US is the market. But there is no market for the great game (yet). And it is my belief that some accomodation is going to have to be arranged to get folks interested in the best game on the planet. And not make the same mistke that there was no logical reason for the US to host the 94 (Footall) World Cup other than the promise of extended markets and that didn't work out. So I ask why shuld America be better at cricket? Or even as good as the '94 Finals?

I'd love to see the US (and many other nations) do more in Cricket. I'd love to see the game expanded. But relying on the whims of the US market didn't work out for the Football World Cup. Why should similar desire work for cricket?

 

[copernicus]

Re: only Yanks can revitalize world cricket

"
How do you know that! The simple fact is the vast majority of Americans
simply don't know anything about cricket except for a few Victorian era
stereotypes. You can't judge a sport unless you've
had direct exposure to it. This is what the NFL has been doing full throttle,
educating the rest of the world about American football. Has the ICC
taken one baby step in doing this in the USA?

I live in America. It is quite obvious that the vast majority have either never heard of it, or know nothing about the game. I've spoken to people about it before and none of them have any idea about the game except for a few Indians and South Africans. The average American does not even recognise the game. That's just plain obvious truth.

Getting the game promoted over here is so difficult because there are already so many American sports that captivate the public. Hockey, Basketball, Football, etc preoccupy the sporting attention of most during their particular seasons. Getting Americans to notice an obscure colonial sport with seemingly incomprehensible rules is something that may well take decades, even if there is an effort to promote the game.

If nothing is done, as seems to be at the moment, then the game will not get off the ground. And frankly, I am not sure if most cricket fans really care. After all, American football is only truly popular in one country, and that is okay for most fans. If cricket retains its popularity in those nations which play it, the sport will remain healthy. That said, I would love to see Americans take interest in the game. It's just an unlikely proposition.

 

[timmyj51]

Re: only Yanks can revitalize world cricket

"Getting Americans to notice an obscure colonial sport with seemingly incomprehensible rules is something that may well take decades, even if there is an effort to promote the game."



American adults are now playing such ridiculous sports as dodgeball and
kickball. Yet everyone thinks it's mission impossible to get any Americans to play cricket?!

 

[timmyj51]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"What better way to promote Aussie culture than with a full day of cricket action between NYC metro area Australian businesses such as restaurants, bars, cafes, and pie shops!"



Um, excuse me, but please be so kind as to explain how this is going to "promote" cricket
to Americans? Are American businesses, restaurants, bars, etc., being
encouraged to come out and participate? My guess it's just going to be the same
old story: ex-pats playing among themselves not caring a rats bum whether
Americans take any interest or not.

 

[copernicus]

Re: only Yanks can revitalize world cricket

"Getting Americans to notice an obscure colonial sport with seemingly incomprehensible rules is something that may well take decades, even if there is an effort to promote the game."



American adults are now playing such ridiculous sports as dodgeball and
kickball. Yet everyone thinks it's mission impossible to get any Americans to play cricket?!

These are games that people grew up with and played as kids - how many Americans grew up playing cricket? Yeah, dodgeball is ridiculous, but it's the sort of thing people played in PE or on the playground - cricket doesn't have any presence in that regard.

I don't see why we can't note the huge obstacles facing the promotion of the game. I'd love to see Americans take up cricket, but there are so many obstacles, and we'd better take note of them so that the ICC or whoever can figure a way around them.

 

[copernicus]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"What better way to promote Aussie culture than with a full day of cricket action between NYC metro area Australian businesses such as restaurants, bars, cafes, and pie shops!"



Um, excuse me, but please be so kind as to explain how this is going to "promote" cricket
to Americans? Are American businesses, restaurants, bars, etc., being
encouraged to come out and participate? My guess it's just going to be the same
old story: ex-pats playing among themselves not caring a rats bum whether
Americans take any interest or not.

Well, it is for Australia Day - in this regard it's probably more of a social event than a promotional event for the game.

 

[BigJeff]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"What better way to promote Aussie culture than with a full day of cricket action between NYC metro area Australian businesses such as restaurants, bars, cafes, and pie shops!"



Um, excuse me, but please be so kind as to explain how this is going to "promote" cricket
to Americans? Are American businesses, restaurants, bars, etc., being
encouraged to come out and participate? My guess it's just going to be the same
old story: ex-pats playing among themselves not caring a rats bum whether
Americans take any interest or not.

mate, you point it out in you post already- What better way to promote Aussie culture than with a full day of cricket
its an event promoting aussie culture on Australia Day.

note: the last 3 posts were moved from the indoor cricket cup thread, please only future posts on that thread be on questions related to the event specifically; anything regarding promoting cricket in the US, etc should be posted elsewhere. thanks.

 

[timmyj51]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"its an event promoting aussie culture on Australia Day."



Promote Aussie culture TO WHOM! Are you promoting
it to yourselves! If you're promoting it to Americans
then you have to involve Americans. Otherwise play
your cricket at the botton of a deep, dark, cave.

 

[copernicus]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"its an event promoting aussie culture on Australia Day."



Promote Aussie culture TO WHOM! Are you promoting
it to yourselves! If you're promoting it to Americans
then you have to involve Americans. Otherwise play
your cricket at the botton of a deep, dark, cave.

I would say that they would like Americans to be involved - but obviously Aussies who crave a little Aussie socialisation want to get involved as well. Americans have to show interest, after all. You can promote all you like but Americans have to be proactive about taking an interest.

 

[timmyj51]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"Americans have to be proactive about taking an interest."



If we waited for people to take up something on a
"proactive" basis, without inspiration, help, or instruction
from the outside,
we'd all still be living in caves wearing animal skins.

 

[Langarne]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

If we waited for people to take up something on a
"proactive" basis, without inspiration, help, or instruction
from the outside.

So what you're saying is the ICC haven't looked into the US market? Sorry, but I think they're a little smarter than what you're giving them credit for.

 

[timmyj51]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"So what you're saying is the ICC haven't looked into the US market? Sorry, but I think they're a little smarter than what you're giving them credit for."




And you're saying the ICC HAS looked at the US market?
Pray tell, how? Have they done any test marketing? Focus
groups? Run an ODI or two on a trial basis? If they
rejected the USA after doing all this they were smart. If
they rejected the USA without having done any of
this they're....

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

And you're saying the ICC HAS looked at the US market?
Pray tell, how? Have they done any test marketing? Focus
groups? Run an ODI or two on a trial basis? If they
rejected the USA after doing all this they were smart. If
they rejected the USA without having done any of
this they're....

Does this article ring a bell?

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/usa/content/story/267443.html

Hmm, seems to me that the USACA has taken it upon itself to market games in the USA with ODI's possible in the country as early as 2008.

This is the first step of many toward getting cricket into America. Any one of the grounds in Florida, New York or Fort Lauderdale could be used which could have temporary seating with a capacity of 40,000 people.

Cricket is trying very hard to get into the USA, it's just a tough market to crack.

 

[Langarne]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

And you're saying the ICC HAS looked at the US market?

Yes.

Pray tell, how?

If I'm not mistaken, the USA have ICC status albeit minor, and have taken part in a champions trophy (an official ICC ODI tournament), and regularly play matches against other ICC members in the same region.Do you think the USACA is behind that? The USA currently has the status that is warranted for where they sit in world cricket.

Have they done any test marketing? Focus
groups? Run an ODI or two on a trial basis?

There have been ODI matches played in the USA and I think a man walking his dog showed up.Your problem from what I'm reading here is that you assume everyone else should do all the work for the sake of getting cricket off the ground in the States.The ICC has to be impressed by the US, and the USACA, not the other way around.The USACA would have allocated funds directly from the ICC, as all members do.There is money everywhere in cricket.There has never been more money than there is currently.The USACA need to spend it more wisely.

If they
rejected the USA after doing all this they were smart. If
they rejected the USA without having done any of
this they're....

Again, thats your opinion, it obviously isn't theirs.The USACA is in its infancy at the present time.Cricket in time will grow in the US and when it does they will be allocated more funds, and more activity.Your problem is you are expecting Rome to be built in a day, and its not going to be.

 

[Langarne]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

Hmm, seems to me that the USACA has taken it upon itself to market games in the USA with ODI's possible in the country as early as 2008.

And that is what they should be doing.This is a step in the right direction.

Cricket is trying very hard to get into the USA, it's just a tough market to crack.

The ICC want to see a 'reason' to get cricket happening in the US.If and when they do, they'll be pouring funds in by the truckload.Funds mean more games, more likelihood of development, more tournaments, and hence, more exposure.But the USACA has to get off its ass and start the ball rolling and not expect everyone else to be doing all the legwork.

 

[timmyj51]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"If I'm not mistaken, the USA have ICC status albeit minor, and have taken part in a champions trophy (an official ICC ODI tournament), and regularly play matches against other ICC members in the same region."


Yeah, all fine-and-dandy for the expats but none of this has done
ANYTHING to raise cricket's profile and awareness with mainstream
Americans. And is ALL that matters.


"There have been ODI matches played in the USA and I think a man walking his dog showed up."


What a surprise! These "ODI" matches were arranged by, for, and, off, the expats.
Absolutely NOTHING was done to attract Americans to the matches or
use them to raise cricket's awareness with Americans.



"Your problem from what I'm reading here is that you assume everyone else should do all the work for the sake of getting cricket off the ground in the States."


Um, the last time I checked the ICC had a multi-million dollar development program. There are, and have been, plenty of people, without help or assistance of any
kind, working to promote cricket in this country. Has the ICC ever
contacted these people and asked them "how can we help you in what
you're doing?"


"The ICC has to be impressed by the US, and the USACA, not the other way around."


At least we agree on one thing. The USACA is the BIGGEST obstacle to
promoting cricket to Americans. But the ICC continues to financially support
this ************** organization hijacked by a Guyanan in a stolen election.
.


"The USACA would have allocated funds directly from the ICC, as all members do.There is money everywhere in cricket.There has never been more money than there is currently.The USACA need to spend it more wisely."


But the USACA is run by a crook who spends every penny of the ICC
welfare check organizing cricket among the expats. Again, the ICC is indirectly in collusion with
this by financially supporting the USACA.



"The USACA is in its infancy at the present time."


The USA has been a member of the ICC since 1964. The present
organization has been in existence for nearly 10 years. The
expats have had plenty of time to show they're sincere about promoting the game to mainstream Americans. They've failed (or, more correctly, refused)
for sixty years.



Want a positive suggestion? Here it is. I propose the ICC, as part of
their development program, make available individual grants to
promote cricket, not only in the USA, but worldwide. ANYONE would be
eligible for these grants, individuals, educational institutions, clubs, or
any other organization that presents a convincing and promising proposal.
These grants WOULD NOT go through the national cricket bodies (though
these bodies could apply themselves if they wanted). But as it is now the ICC will only work through the national
bodies. They refuse to work with any private parties. This is
what's killing cricket in the USA. As long as the USACA continues to
stand between people who are working for the game in this country and
the ICC there's no hope. The ICC could easily change this but they
won't.

 

[copernicus]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"Americans have to be proactive about taking an interest."



If we waited for people to take up something on a
"proactive" basis, without inspiration, help, or instruction
from the outside,
we'd all still be living in caves wearing animal skins.

What do you suggest? Frog-marching Americans in chains down to watch the cricket? There is so much money you can spend on promoting a foreign, unusual sport to Americans and there is only so much you can do to make them come, especially when the event is such a small, social event.

 

[Zebedee]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

Yes.
If I'm not mistaken, the USA have ICC status albeit minor, and have taken part in a champions trophy (an official ICC ODI tournament), and regularly play matches against other ICC members in the same region.Do you think the USACA is behind that? The USA currently has the status that is warranted for where they sit in world cricket.

The US is an ASSOCIATE member of the ICC, The groupings are: Top tier -Full members (Test sides); second tier - Associate members; and third tier - Affiliate members. In that the US is ranked alongside such genuinely fine cricketing nations as, The Netherlands, Kenya, Denmark and Ireland, amongst 28 others.

We must assume the USACA is "behind" their place in the cricketing hierarchy, or are we to imagine that the USACA believe that the US should have test status at present?

The USA play in the Americas region (that's a bit obvious really) alongside:

Full Members

* West Indies

Associate Members

* Argentina
* Bermuda
* Canada
* Cayman Islands
* United States of America

Affiliate Members

* Bahamas
* Belize
* Brazil
* Chile
* Costa Rica
* Cuba
* Mexico
* Panama
* Suriname
* Turks and Caicos Islands

 

[Zebedee]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

What do you suggest? Frog-marching Americans in chains down to watch the cricket?

YES!

There is so much money you can spend on promoting a foreign, unusual sport to Americans and there is only so much you can do to make them come, especially when the event is such a small, social event.

Social event maybe. But not exactly small. Just ask the people of the sub-continent or the West Indies. It's usually a huge social event there and could be elsewhere, when certain folk get over their love affair with that game beloved of English schoolgirls: rounders. (or Baseball as it's known by some). No I kid...seriously baseball is promoted all over the world, why not cricket in America?

 

[Zebedee]

Re: Indoor Cricket Cup- G'day USA 2007

"What better way to promote Aussie culture than with a full day of cricket action between NYC metro area Australian businesses such as restaurants, bars, cafes, and pie shops!"

I know this has been moved from one thread to another, so I am not so sure that timmyj51 is responsible for this quote (above), but I ask whoever is responsible: since when was cricket a vehicle for, or as seemingly implied, solely a part of Aussie culture? Not Indian or West Indian culture? Not Pakistani or South African culture? Let alone of course, and above all others, English (or British) Culture? Why Australian businesses and not others?

Australia may be the world's best at the moment, but this was not always the case in the past and may not, or more probably will not always be the case in the future. So why should Aussie culture (or more properly business, if I understand the author correctly ) usurp the game as its very own to promote itself?

Isn't that a touch arrogant ?