Plastic Balls For Practice

[Billywhizz]

I buy 6 of these 'Upfront ' balls every Autumn, they are match weight and size 5.1/2 oz compacted rubber with a similar bounce to leather. Great for practising on concrete and indoor. The seams usually wear out after some heavy abuse, but last me the whole off-season.

I've tried every sort of rubber and plastic ball and this is the only one (to me) that feels similar to the real thing.
'Upfront' do them in red or red/white which I use for checking seam position in flight.

 

[Chino#21]

If you are thinking about the Gray Nicholls Reverse swing ball - I can scratch that from your options. The weight is about right but it is incredibly hard and more likely to destroy a bat than a real ball (I try to avoid bowling new balls in nets for the same reason). Mine is now relegated to wet outdoor net bowling practice only. Not tried to spin it though so no idea how it handles.

I did pick up a ball that was as you described from a UK shop called poundland. It was advertised as 'Genuine Laether'. Very similar to a cricket ball but must have had a plastic surface. By the time I noticed and went back in again, the shop was sold out and sadly I have never seen them on sale again. I'm guessing this is the one you have previously come across?

I can't remember the brand, but it certainly wasn't as hard as a leather ball, yet it was of a very similar weight and it could swing, spin etc. in much the same way as a cricket ball. There was also a variant that had a white side and a red side which is extremely useful for practicing different angles of spin with and getting good feedback on seam position.

 

[Chino#21]

I buy 6 of these 'Upfront ' balls every Autumn, they are match weight and size 5.1/2 oz compacted rubber with a similar bounce to leather. Great for practising on concrete and indoor. The seams usually wear out after some heavy abuse, but last me the whole off-season.

I've tried every sort of rubber and plastic ball and this is the only one (to me) that feels similar to the real thing.
'Upfront' do them in red or red/white which I use for checking seam position in flight.

View attachment 466

Yes this is definitely a useful thing to practice with on concrete. The only problem is that the heavy impact on concrete will soon make the ball misshapen and once it's just slightly out of proportion it becomes almost useless. The seam will always wobble, the bounce will be irregular and overall it will be far more difficult to spin the ball and bowl it accurately.

 

[Billywhizz]

Yes this is definitely a useful thing to practice with on concrete. The only problem is that the heavy impact on concrete will soon make the ball misshapen and once it's just slightly out of proportion it becomes almost useless. The seam will always wobble, the bounce will be irregular and overall it will be far more difficult to spin the ball and bowl it accurately.

The ball holds its shape perfectly.
The only issue I've found is the odd one might crack after a while, but even then its still usable.
I use half a dozen of them for 6 months, 1 - 2 hours a week a mixture of indoor sportshall and outdoor tennis courts.

 

[MagicDave]

So I picked one of the Upfront balls up yesterday and had a play with it this lunchtime. Good size and weight and slightly soft. The most realistic of the plastic balls I have handled. However, the seam grip is really sharp so it seems to give you an artificially good purchase of grip. I'll hang onto it as the two colour is good for checking your alignment but I'll probably look to move onto hockey balls as I progress as I'd worry the difference in grip from the seam wouldn't translate as well onto the leather seam of a real ball.

YMMV

I'd love to have access to used leather balls but I'd need to move to another team really.

 

[Billywhizz]

So I picked one of the Upfront balls up yesterday and had a play with it this lunchtime. Good size and weight and slightly soft. The most realistic of the plastic balls I have handled. However, the seam grip is really sharp so it seems to give you an artificially good purchase of grip. I'll hang onto it as the two colour is good for checking your alignment but I'll probably look to move onto hockey balls as I progress as I'd worry the difference in grip from the seam wouldn't translate as well onto the leather seam of a real ball.

YMMV

I'd love to have access to used leather balls but I'd need to move to another team really.

The sharpness wears off after a few sessions and the seam will eventually completely wear off.
What surface do you practice on? Have you got any aims for the winter?

 

[boogiespinner]

C Chino#21

This was something I found re: training with lighter balls - it's just one study (of female handball players) but I think it is evidence against the hypothesis that one should always seek to emulate match conditions for practice. The results of the study were that training with a lighter practice ball was beneficial for a handball throw for female athletes:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15438629109511906

 

[boogiespinner]

Here is also a baseball article re: practicing with over- and under-weighted balls. http://pitchmechanics101.com/the-truth-about-weighted-ball-training/

 

[SLA]

Here is also a baseball article re: practicing with over- and under-weighted balls. http://pitchmechanics101.com/the-truth-about-weighted-ball-training/

Important caveat. Only ever do this in the presence of and under the guidance of a professional coach, and it's designed as an occasional, targeted drill to develop key muscle groups, and definitely under no circumstances should it be used as a regular practice or without professional supervision.

I hope that clears things up for you. Be careful not to give advice that you're not qualified to give

 

[boogiespinner]

Important caveat. Only ever do this in the presence of and under the guidance of a professional coach, and it's designed as an occasional, targeted drill to develop key muscle groups, and definitely under no circumstances should it be used as a regular practice or without professional supervision.

I hope that clears things up for you. Be careful not to give advice that you're not qualified to give

Sigh

As ever SLA you are avoiding the point, which is a discussion of whether it is necessary to seek match conditions in practice or whether greater benefit can be had by changing those conditions. There is no 'advice' being given in my last two posts.

I don't believe there is any added danger involved with practising with lighter balls, which is the idea I have been playing around with - so boo to you. The aim is not strength, but technical development.

I'm really tired of your constant appeals to authority, straw men, and patronising attitude

 

[SLA]

Sigh

As ever SLA you are avoiding the point, which is a discussion of whether it is necessary to seek match conditions in practice or whether greater benefit can be had by changing those conditions. There is no 'advice' being given in my last two posts.

I don't believe there is any added danger involved with practising with lighter balls, which is the idea I have been playing around with - so boo to you. The aim is not strength, but technical development.

I'm really tired of your constant appeals to authority, straw men, and patronising attitude

You can believe what you like, but seeing as you have zero knowledge of this subject, it's not surprising that you're almost inevitably wrong.

Why do you feel obliged to express opinions on subjects you know nothing about. I play a bit of golf, not particularly well, but probably still better than your bowling, but I don't go on golf websites arguing with professional coaches, because I have the humility to understand when I am out of my depth and my opinion is neither informed nor welcome.

Perhaps you should try to take the same approach in the future? Don't quote studies that you do not have the competence to understand.

 

[SLA]

I encourage everyone here to actually read the link for yourselves, rather than rely on boogie spinners dishonest representation as to the contents.

Short, professionally implemented Overload and underload training programs is a well understood method is increasing pitching velocity by increasing arm strength. It is occasionally used in cricket - I've been to conferences where it had been discussed at length. It's not suitable to be used for technical development, and it's not too be used for more than a short period of time, or without careful professional supervision.

The use of the technique certainly doesn't undermine the fact that the only way to develop as bowler is to replicate match conditions as closely as possible in every practice session. If you tried to argue this to a group of coaches or even experienced cricketers, they'd laugh you out of the room.

 

[boogiespinner]

The use of the technique certainly doesn't undermine the fact that the only way to develop as bowler is to replicate match conditions as closely as possible in every practice session. If you tried to argue this to a group of coaches or even experienced cricketers, they'd laugh you out of the room.

Why?

You keep claiming this - as 'fact' - but provide no evidence for it other than your weasel words.

Whereas I am providing plenty of evidence against it. And yes, this is indeed precisely evidence against it.

The baseball research suggests very strongly that BOTH training with over and underweighted balls improves pitching velocity and in fact it is only the control group of those practising with the 5oz ball exclusively who do not improve.

 

[SLA]

Why?

You keep claiming this - as 'fact' - but provide no evidence for it other than your weasel words.

Whereas I am providing plenty of evidence against it. And yes, this is indeed precisely evidence against it.

The baseball research suggests very strongly that BOTH training with over and underweighted balls improves pitching velocity and in fact it is only the control group of those practising with the 5oz ball exclusively who do not improve.

How is your pitching velocity? Are you trying to improve it? You've never mentioned an interest in baseball before.

You have provided zero evidence. The links your post contradict your own idiotic claims.

 

[boogiespinner]

How is your pitching velocity? Are you trying to improve it? You've never mentioned an interest in baseball before.

You have provided zero evidence. The links your post contradict your own idiotic claims.

S SLA we are at the point where you are just making a fool of yourself. If you want to supply actual evidence for your claim that one should seek to emulate match conditions as closely as possible in every practice session, beyond 'I say so' or 'my mates in the coaching world say so' then please do so or quit this whining and accept that it is simply a commonly-held belief.

Rather obviously, I don't have to practice or even have a particular interest in baseball in order to quote baseball studies as evidence.

 

[SLA]

S SLA we are at the point where you are just making a fool of yourself. If you want to supply actual evidence for your claim that one should seek to emulate match conditions as closely as possible in every practice session, beyond 'I say so' or 'my mates in the coaching world say so' then please do so or quit this whining and accept that it is simply a commonly-held belief.

Rather obviously, I don't have to practice or even have a particular interest in baseball in order to quote baseball studies as evidence.

I don't have to provide evidence of anything. This isn't my PhD viva.

I'll tell you the truth based on several years of playing and coaching at a high level, reading numerous books and articles, and attending numerous coaching seminars. Most people listen to the advice, find it helps their game, and come back and say thanks.

Now you can choose to ignore the advice if you wish, but you may then wish you question why you are a bloke in his mid 40s who after 30 years of practice still regularly bowls into the side netting.

Your cricket career is like a warning from history of the danger of being too stupid and hubristic to listen to professional advice.

 

[boogiespinner]

I don't have to provide evidence of anything.

Fine, but then as far as I and this forum is concerned your assertion is not backed up by anything, except your appeal to authority which I say is totally unconvincing.

Now you can choose to ignore the advice if you wish, but you may then wish you question why you are a bloke in his mid 40s who after 30 years of practice still regularly bowls into the side netting.

Again, you are attempting a personal put down in place of argument.

For your information, I have just been an occasional if passionate player for only a fraction of my adult years: I practiced the traditional way cricketers do for most of those, net practice with batsmen, and really got absolutely nowhere.

It is the last three years that I have really devoted myself to having a serious attempt at mastering legspin and that is also the time I have spent on this forum.

The reason I hit the side netting occasionally - actually that's mostly with the googly - is because, as I have already explained many times, I am not striving for accuracy but striving for spin, pace, drift, turn, dip and fizz, and I will say I am very happy with the progress I have been making there - particularly in the last year.

I hope that explains that for you.

 

[SLA]

Fine, but then as far as I and this forum is concerned your assertion is not backed up by anything, except your appeal to authority which I say is totally unconvincing.


Again, you are attempting a personal put down in place of argument.

For your information, I have just been an occasional if passionate player for only a fraction of my adult years: I practiced the traditional way cricketers do for most of those, net practice with batsmen, and really got absolutely nowhere.

It is the last three years that I have really devoted myself to having a serious attempt at mastering legspin and that is also the time I have spent on this forum.

The reason I hit the side netting occasionally - actually that's mostly with the googly - is because, as I have already explained many times, I am not striving for accuracy but striving for spin, pace, drift, turn, dip and fizz, and I will say I am very happy with the progress I have been making there - particularly in the last year.

I hope that explains that for you.

Its not really a serious attempt at all, is it though. If you were serious, you would have the humility to listen to the genuine well-meaning advice of experienced players and professional coaches. But you're more interested in shouting your mouth off and bullying people who don't subscribe to your narrow view of the "right" way to bowl spin, than actually improving.

You have actually admitted several times that you're NOT actually interested in improving as a bowler as all. You have acknowledged that you have no interest in being able to take wickets and bowl spells that contribute to team victories, which I think everyone else here would agree to be the entire point of any type of bowling, whether fast or spin or something else.

You really have no reason to be on this forum - this forum is for people interested in improving as spin bowlers. All you contribute is harassment and misinformation. You're the worst kind of troll.

 

[boogiespinner]

If you were serious, you would have the humility to listen to the genuine well-meaning advice of experienced players and professional coaches.

Oh but I do. Like Graeme Swann:

Graeme Swann has said slow bowlers who don't attempt to give the ball a rip should be cast out of English cricket. As a devotee of the hard spun off-break, Swann has grown to become perhaps the most accomplished finger spinner in the world, and had no time for 'rollers' who trotted up to the wicket and landed the ball with accuracy but no fizz.

"They should be banished from the first-class game. It winds me up, if you are a spinner, spin the ball," Swann told Reuters. "I have never, ever seen the point of bowling without trying to spin the ball. It's been my bugbear that I have seen some young spinners come up who have got lovely control and land it nicely but don't try to turn it. I really like watching the ball fizzing down. That's why I always like watching Shane Warne bowl, [Muttiah] Muralitharan bowl, these guys who really try and spin it, these are the guys I really try to emulate."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/511564.html[/QUOTE]

The rest of your post is also of course totally ridiculous but I see little point in correcting it other than to laugh at your pretence at being 'well-meaning'.

 

[SLA]

Oh but I do. Like Graeme Swann:

Graeme Swann has said slow bowlers who don't attempt to give the ball a rip should be cast out of English cricket. As a devotee of the hard spun off-break, Swann has grown to become perhaps the most accomplished finger spinner in the world, and had no time for 'rollers' who trotted up to the wicket and landed the ball with accuracy but no fizz.

"They should be banished from the first-class game. It winds me up, if you are a spinner, spin the ball," Swann told Reuters. "I have never, ever seen the point of bowling without trying to spin the ball. It's been my bugbear that I have seen some young spinners come up who have got lovely control and land it nicely but don't try to turn it. I really like watching the ball fizzing down. That's why I always like watching Shane Warne bowl, [Muttiah] Muralitharan bowl, these guys who really try and spin it, these are the guys I really try to emulate."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/511564.html

The rest of your post is also of course totally ridiculous but I see little point in correcting it other than to laugh at your pretence at being 'well-meaning'.[/QUOTE]


Are you aware you're knocking down strawmen? That is to say, are you genuinely stupid or just mindlessly trolling?

No-one here is arguing against the idea that spin bowlers need to give the ball plenty of revs. I've advocated this time and time again. Of course, there is not much use in a hard-spun long hop. You need accuracy AND spin to be able to call yourself a spin bowler. I was a teenager when I got this - you're approaching 50 and you still haven't figured it out. Maybe you never will.

I'd love him to name names, mind. Which professional spinners does he think are "rollers"?