Test XI Selection Thread

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Boris said:
In normal situations, yes, way too many. I'd settle with one or two. But this Ashes series at the moment defines Australian cricket, a loss here could spell English dominance for the next ten years. Right now I don't care about the long term, just bring in whoever will do the job. Hell, ask Hodge to come back and see what he can do :p.


Crookers, I like D.Hussey and is one of the best batsmen around at the moment, but he has never been in contention for a Test spot in his life so I'm not sure he's the right man mentally for the job. Khawaja is in just as good form and knows he's on the brink of selection, plus if you do look to the long term he wins the points there. There's only room for one middle order batsman and going head-to-head I think Khawaja just wins.

Also Katich, Watson and Hussey are the most in form batsmen (plus Haddin, but you never know with him), and two of them are at the top. Have you noticed the trend of the last four Australian innings? Top two get off to a reasonable start then the collapse where only Hussey brings them back from total embarrassment. Hussey's needed down the order IMO, especially with Katich out. Spread the talent out :D

I'd bring in Hughes, there really isn't another choice for me. The other choice is Khawaja and it's either him or Hussey opening then. Hughes has faced these bowlers before, every bit of experience counts. Not sure on his current form though?

I have no idea what to do with the bowling attack. I'm tempted to leave them be and just hope the batting improves to an extent where Australia cannot lose.
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Thanks Boris,

Is this Aust. we are talking about? Amazing how this game can turn ball by ball, minute by minute, hour by.....etc That is why it is the greatest game of all despite certain money imploded sports financed by poker machines.

David Hussey averages over 50 in first class cricket over many years and I think that should be recognised. Frankly I was stunned that he was 33.

From what I have been told Khawaja is a very good player but what NSW player doesnt get that rap at the moment. I havent had the pleasure of seeing him play but based on recent innings scores I could not contemplate him. Suspect Greg Chappel is for him though.

I agree about Mike Hussey but feel that gives others an oppotunity if he goes to the top.

Cannot agree on Hughes, sorry. I have now watched him at various levels and whilst a natural talent he is so loose in technique that I think Anderson and co would sought him out. Nonetheless on his day could turn any game.

Funny but I watched the futures league game where David Warner scored 200+ and the second eleven game in Perth where he scored a second innings 100. Dont underestimate this player he is a very serious player who has not been recognised because of the imbalance of one day cricket and 20/20. On his day he is a better player than both the current Aust. openers but has been pigeon holed.(I hate limited overs cricket) This guy is such a talent.

I sincerely believe that it has been these crowd attracting games with their associated revenue that have divided our countries best cricketers into categories which has resulted in many,many fine players not representing our country when they should have. I understand your take on one dayers being great contests and dont disagree but it should be the secondary string to the bow and not the primary.

I have had the pleasure of seeing the English County scene for an extended time on two occassions(some time ago) and could never understand why England struggled with providing international players from such a wonderful competition. What a laugh. England cricket called on Rod Marsh for help. Would love to get his comments now!!!!!!!!!!!

But I have to say that,as in a prior post,the current England side are superior technically to Aust. in every way.

I hope the series is a wake up call to the administrators to give priority to the long game and then perhaps the crowds will come floccking back to the real game one day.

NO PLAYERS PERFORMANCE IN ONE DAY OR 20/20 SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN SELECTING A TEST TEAM AS IT CLEARLY HAS IN THIS CASE.

(Ponting clearly picked XD and now he is calling for Phillip Hughes to replace Katich. Sorry, but isnt that a little premature! Could the selectors have some input please? No because Pontings' approach is so demanding,so excessive and so confrontational that he makes these statements without regard for those who are there to help him. Sadly he just wasnt the right person to assume this incedibly demmanding role and it will in time reflect the way people look back at him in history.)SAD
 
Crooker, I didnt' quote your quote as it's too long.

I agree Hussey's technique is the best out of the Aussies, his problems have been mental. If he's got them sorted, he should be able to play a few more useful innings this series.

The great strength of Alistair Cook has always been his temperament. Half his problems recently with low scores has been that he has worked very hard to add a cover drive to his range. He's never been much chop off the front foot and this is the first time I've ever seen him play it confidently but he's strong off the back foot as anyone else around. I still think that decent bowling would test him, especially on the drive but our guys appear incapable of that apart from Harris.

Bell is coming in very safe at present with all those runs on the board. He's not as strong mentally as Cook by any means. Technically he is pretty good but can play loosely. His shot selection goes to hell under pressure.

Punter is Punter, hard hands and all. I have said previously on this board that I think he is in trouble. I just don't think he's capable of hanging around for long periods anymore. I think it is going to completely knacker him out just getting to 50, with all the shite that must be in his head.

I don't think Watson is an opener. He can't bat for the long periods required which is hardly surprising as he is really an elevated one day batsman. He needs to be down the order.

For the others, Michael Clarke is a good batsman, but his shot to get out to KP was really unfortunate as he hasn't been in great form and needed a really strong innings to make him look skipper material. He in some ways reminds me of Bell, probably not as good all-round technically, his temperament is a little suspect and that is why playing him at 3 and even 4 is risky.

Marcus North I give up on. That shot he played to get out to Finn in the first innings beggared belief and I think they need to be shot of him.

I know the English team reasonably well as I have lived in England a long time. I think Flower has been huge for this team. He seems to have some ability to pump self-belief into players.

The bowlers, I'm not going to talk too much about.I agree wtih gbatman. Our lot appear to just not be able to bowl at the top off stump more than one player in one innings at a time and it has been going on for ages. Either they are just really dumb or something is very wrong with the captaincy and coaching. As it doesn't even take huge talent to bowl decent lines and lengths or to the situation. Andrew MacDonald can do that.

I think that the Aussies have no confidence, plus not much patience to go with the lack of confidence so they play dumb shots unnecessarily. Huss's was an example but his was understandable in some ways. He is used to pulling Finn to the boundary .
 
You just have to remember that part of the captain's job is a selector... so you can say Ponting may be making the wrong decisions or having more influence than the others, but it is part of his job since he's the only one that gets to actually be on the field with them.

Hussey summed up his bad form himself... most of it was bad luck. He got a couple of brilliant deliveries that he simply couldn't keep out or a couple of brilliant catches. Those inside edges found the stumps. Then after not being able to spend time in the middle it just kept going because he just couldn't find the middle of the bat and makes him mentally unfit. He didn't have the time in ODIs to think about it, so he's kept his spot in the top 3 best batsmen in the world. He's been given a couple of opportunities through good luck this series with dropped catches or bad umpiring decisions and now he's been able to get back to some form because he's had some time in the middle.

Not sure about taking him to the top of the order, though. I think it's a time where the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes into play. If we don't have him down the order who else do we have to save us? :D

I don't much like Hughes and you make good points. Just a guy that averages 50, has a couple of centuries and scored 80 in his last innings in a Test? It's either him or Khawaja in reality and I don't like Khawaja for an opening bat, and I don't want to move the team around. If you take out an opener you replace them with an opener.

Just taking Crookers point one step further about talent not flowing through the different formats. It works the other way around too, players can be pigeon-holed into Test cricket but then not considered for ODIs (T20 isn't cricket so I tend to forget about it). For example Katich can be a fine one day player and Hughes is almost perfect for one day cricket, yet never heard his name thrown around as up for selection. Stuart Clark has been a brilliant one day bowler for years, even second best this year in ODDs, but he was pigeon-holed early without much evidence. I agree totally, though, there are way too many cricketers who don't get what they deserve in the main game, Test cricket.

I agree with your thoughts Warner. The first few times I saw him bat I immediately thought he is a really good player. I wonder if he will bother playing the longer stuff though with the amount of money in T20 and his brilliance at that. He definitely has the eye and has a decent technique as well, plus seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Hopefully he takes the long format seriously.
 
Beeswax said:
Crooker, I didnt' quote your quote as it's too long.

I agree Hussey's technique is the best out of the Aussies, his problems have been mental. If he's got them sorted, he should be able to play a few more useful innings this series.

The great strength of Alistair Cook has always been his temperament. Half his problems recently with low scores has been that he has worked very hard to add a cover drive to his range. He's never been much chop off the front foot and this is the first time I've ever seen him play it confidently but he's strong off the back foot as anyone else around. I still think that decent bowling would test him, especially on the drive but our guys appear incapable of that apart from Harris.

Bell is coming in very safe at present with all those runs on the board. He's not as strong mentally as Cook by any means. Technically he is pretty good but can play loosely. His shot selection goes to hell under pressure.

Punter is Punter, hard hands and all. I have said previously on this board that I think he is in trouble. I just don't think he's capable of hanging around for long periods anymore. I think it is going to completely knacker him out just getting to 50, with all the shite that must be in his head.

I don't think Watson is an opener. He can't bat for the long periods required which is hardly surprising as he is really an elevated one day batsman. He needs to be down the order.

For the others, Michael Clarke is a good batsman, but his shot to get out to KP was really unfortunate as he hasn't been in great form and needed a really strong innings to make him look skipper material. He in some ways reminds me of Bell, probably not as good all-round technically, his temperament is a little suspect and that is why playing him at 3 and even 4 is risky.

Marcus North I give up on. That shot he played to get out to Finn in the first innings beggared belief and I think they need to be shot of him.

I know the English team reasonably well as I have lived in England a long time. I think Flower has been huge for this team. He seems to have some ability to pump self-belief into players.

The bowlers, I'm not going to talk too much about.I agree wtih gbatman. Our lot appear to just not be able to bowl at the top off stump more than one player in one innings at a time and it has been going on for ages. Either they are just really dumb or something is very wrong with the captaincy and coaching. As it doesn't even take huge talent to bowl decent lines and lengths or to the situation. Andrew MacDonald can do that.

I think that the Aussies have no confidence, plus not much patience to go with the lack of confidence so they play dumb shots unnecessarily. Huss's was an example but his was understandable in some ways. He is used to pulling Finn to the boundary .
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Thanks Beeswax, I think most of what you said agreed with my comments generally. i AM INTERESTED IN ANDY fLOWER? THE RUNS HE USED TO SCORE IN COUNTY USED TO AMAZE ME. COULD YOU EXPAND A LITTLE FROM YOUR KNOWLEDGE IF POSSIBLE ON HIS ATTRIBUTES. I ALSO KNOW JAMIE PIKE WHO THOUGHT HE WAS PRETTY SPECIAL.
 
marty344 said:
In my opinion this is one of the worst, if not the worst Australian test sides that we've had in a long time.
It seems hard to believe that it was only four years ago that we beat England 5-0 in Australia.

And the Adelaide test was one of the worst performances by an Australian team that i have EVER seen.
The batting in teh first innings was downright disgraceful. How you can get ran out on the first ball of a test match i can't figure out.

I have a major gripe with Ricky Ponting still being the Australian Captain let alone playing, period. a LOT of Australia's wins in the past can be attributed not to Ricky Ponting's captaincy but by the fact we had some of the greatest players of all time in the team, namely Glen McGrath and Shane Warne.

And the fact that Ponting didnt want Johnson to be dropped shows his head isnt in the right place.

There is absolutely NO WAY Australia will win this Ashes series. If England do indeed win the series, it will be the first time in many years that England have won the Ashes here. Also South Africa beat us a few years ago in a test series, again for the first time in many years.

I think Ponting has to be dropped permantly. His batting of late has been non existent. Marcus North also has to go. Doherty should be placed by Steve Smith. He has earned his stripes whereas Doherty hasnt. Why they would pick a youngster to debut in the Ashes is downright baffling.

Going back to my original statement, let me put it this way. If the Australian test team of four years ago played the Australian test team we have now it would be a flogging.
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This is probably the worst side I can remember since I first started taking an interest in cricket when I was about 3 so I'd say that yeah it would be (in my time anyway). Is it the worst side ever? No. The early 80's were pretty bad, very bad in fact. Australia were pretty uncompetitive for a period of about four or five years before things picked up again in the last 80's.

I'd say there's still worse to come, Australia have been good for so long that it was only a matter of time before things fell apart. The sheer quality of players we had was quite phenomenal, even the guys on the fringes of the team could have played test cricket for other countries and would be some of the first guys picked. The guys in the side now try hard but they are just aren't up to it for the most part, I think that a lot of people who follow Australia got used to the fact that we were the dominant side for around two decades and everyone just accepted it. Now that the super-side from last decade and the decade before that has gone and the new guys have taken their place, everyone expected them to dominate and they haven't been able to as they aren't quite the calibre of what the previous players were.

A lot of changes need to be made though, in my opinion, the side competing next summer (2011/12) will be quite different from the team that is playing now.
 
I think they have to bring Phil Hughes as at least he has some experience at the top level. I don't like watching him bat, but he does appear to be someone who can scrape runs together. Having said that, he'll probably be out nicking to slip early as he does like to swing like a rusty gate.

The selectors being so dead set intent on not giving any other young batsmen a shot at test cricket over the preceding 12 months is really paying dividends for them. Most of the possibles appear to be running for cover in the Shield and Ryobi at the moment.
 
David Hussey & White lack the technique to survive at Test Level.Everyone keeps pushing for Khawaja but he has yet to actually grab a spot and make it his.Hughes is averaging 19 in Shield cricket so if he gets called up it will be on past performances.Ferguson would have to get a run soon although he has not grabbed the spot either.I am surprised that they have not shoved Henriques into the Test team. He is from NSW, has a very cool name,has a poor average and is one of the most overrated cricketers playing the game.Seems like a walk up start with this selection panel.Henriques and Clarke would make a great pair. Someone I would love to see playing for Australia would be Cosgrove.Very clean hitter and reminds me of Buff Lehmann.Perfect number 4 and drop Clarke to 5 where he can hide. Unfortunately Cosgrove cannot stop putting donuts in his mouth and would be a liablilty in the field, not to mention during the lunch breaks. Being a fatty in sports today is the ultimate taboo irrespective of your ability.Colin Cowdrey must be rolling in his grave.
 
Boris said:
You just have to remember that part of the captain's job is a selector... so you can say Ponting may be making the wrong decisions or having more influence than the others, but it is part of his job since he's the only one that gets to actually be on the field with them.

Hussey summed up his bad form himself... most of it was bad luck. He got a couple of brilliant deliveries that he simply couldn't keep out or a couple of brilliant catches. Those inside edges found the stumps. Then after not being able to spend time in the middle it just kept going because he just couldn't find the middle of the bat and makes him mentally unfit. He didn't have the time in ODIs to think about it, so he's kept his spot in the top 3 best batsmen in the world. He's been given a couple of opportunities through good luck this series with dropped catches or bad umpiring decisions and now he's been able to get back to some form because he's had some time in the middle.

Not sure about taking him to the top of the order, though. I think it's a time where the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes into play. If we don't have him down the order who else do we have to save us? :D

I don't much like Hughes and you make good points. Just a guy that averages 50, has a couple of centuries and scored 80 in his last innings in a Test? It's either him or Khawaja in reality and I don't like Khawaja for an opening bat, and I don't want to move the team around. If you take out an opener you replace them with an opener.

Just taking Crookers point one step further about talent not flowing through the different formats. It works the other way around too, players can be pigeon-holed into Test cricket but then not considered for ODIs (T20 isn't cricket so I tend to forget about it). For example Katich can be a fine one day player and Hughes is almost perfect for one day cricket, yet never heard his name thrown around as up for selection. Stuart Clark has been a brilliant one day bowler for years, even second best this year in ODDs, but he was pigeon-holed early without much evidence. I agree totally, though, there are way too many cricketers who don't get what they deserve in the main game, Test cricket.

I agree with your thoughts Warner. The first few times I saw him bat I immediately thought he is a really good player. I wonder if he will bother playing the longer stuff though with the amount of money in T20 and his brilliance at that. He definitely has the eye and has a decent technique as well, plus seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Hopefully he takes the long format seriously.
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Hi Boris
Of course I agree that Ponting must be/and is part of the selection process but he should confine his comments to the selection table and not pre-empt the discussion publicly. What sought of a state would the process be in if all the selectors came out with public statements prior to the meeting and prior to games that have a bearing on the selection process. Not surprisingly Hughes failed and where does that leave Ponting?

With regard to Hughes I agree that if we replace opener with opener then he deserves his chance. I must confess to underestimating his first clas/test record which I have just researched. No one else at present can match that. Maybe that is just the opportunity he needs.

I was also very concious of moving M Hussey from his position of stability and if pressed as a selector probably would not have taken that option. Well called.
 
Beeswax said:
The selectors being so dead set intent on not giving any other young batsmen a shot at test cricket over the preceding 12 months is really paying dividends for them. Most of the possibles appear to be running for cover in the Shield and Ryobi at the moment.
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Couldn't agree more, Beeswax. They've had plenty of time to prepare for now & beyond, and got it wrong. Whilst I appreciate the pace bowling options are limited by injuries, etc., the batsmen and spin bowlers should have been groomed & persisted with, and they weren't.

A couple of others have written how now is not a good time to promote youth. I don't see why not, although as I said it should have been done before now. What are they going to do for the 3rd Test... bring back Johnson & Hauritz?!? What a comical situation it would be. England have waited a long time to laugh so hard. They must be loving this.
 
In - Smith, Hughes, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Beer.
Out - Katich, North, Doherty and Bollinger.

Some interesting selections there..
 
crookers said:
Hi Boris
Of course I agree that Ponting must be/and is part of the selection process but he should confine his comments to the selection table and not pre-empt the discussion publicly. What sought of a state would the process be in if all the selectors came out with public statements prior to the meeting and prior to games that have a bearing on the selection process. Not surprisingly Hughes failed and where does that leave Ponting?

With regard to Hughes I agree that if we replace opener with opener then he deserves his chance. I must confess to underestimating his first clas/test record which I have just researched. No one else at present can match that. Maybe that is just the opportunity he needs.

I was also very concious of moving M Hussey from his position of stability and if pressed as a selector probably would not have taken that option. Well called.
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Oh Dear another Hughes failure. He must be struggling but as we all know he is a real talent "when going well". I think?

Could someone please explain why our squad had to be picked today, prior to the conclusion of the Shield games and the England v Vic game???????

To add to the mess, one David Hussey is smashing the England side all over the ground at the MCG and his learned captain decides that 220 is enough and this fantastic player is denied his opportunity. What a joke.

Would it have been a good a idea to give England a long two days in the field or was this the captain who had failed with the bat, protecting his personal "status"? Sorry I just dont get it.
 
Hughs will be right in the long run so long as the selectors can show him as much faith as they gave johnson and north. On the subject of selectors andrew hildich must go he is as bad a selector as he was opener. We have a team now that is as weak as the kim hughs mess and we need a leader for the future. Clarke is not that man.
OH, hi all am new to the forum.
 
Hello Nairbe, and welcome. I also think Hughes is probably worth the investment, although his shortcomings have been clearly exposed. If he's got the eye, talent and years ahead of him, I'm happy enough for him to be given every opportunity whilst no-one else is demanding an opener's spot at present. MInd you, his form is hardly convincing.
Right on with Hilditch. He's an appalling selection chairman. It has now been proven that the selections of the past 2-3 years have been substandard, so surely he should be held accountable. Tim Nielsen seems a decent bloke, but how does he get away with the abysmal record of wins/losses Australia have had since he came into power as national coach?
Although many will disagree, with North being dropped I think this was a tremendous opportunity to bring Cameron White into the side - as a middle-order batsman, splendid slipsman, occasional bowler ... and future captain. They could do worse. Ponting may be gone by summer's end the way things are going. Do we want MIchael Clarke to assume control of this team? White's batting may not be of the highest order, but it's been pretty damn good for an extended period in the best F/Class comp around, as well as limited overs representation. Whilst Khawaja & Ferguson hiccup at each decent opportunity to stake a claim, this bloke battled out a gutsy century against the Poms before the Tests started, which shouldn't be brushed aside.
 
Sober Symonds said:
I think this was a tremendous opportunity to bring Cameron White into the side - as a middle-order batsman, splendid slipsman, occasional bowler ... and future captain. They could do worse.
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We are desperate, but not that desperate..

:p

Didn't he as captain promote himself up the order today for the Vics in the tour match in an attempt to give himself a plug for the selectors and fail?
 
Sober Symonds, I must agree with Cameron White. He has shown himself to be the best domestic captain strategically we have and for the long term Aussie future we need tactics, his batting is stable at best though and the team simply can not carry anyone just now. Pup may be the white haired little boy but he appears to lack the spine and imagination needed for captaincy.
Hughs will develop, i remember another left handed opener who got sent back to shield for a while to clean up his technique, think his name was Hayden or something. Steve smith is another hope but should have come in as a bowler, just the thought of a leggie and the pom's wet their nappies.
The current selection panel are all poor. Hildich ordinary, chappell failed with India who then became campions and Boonie has been at it a while and was that a job for the boys for Jamie Cox.
 
I think it's a bit early to call Greg Chappell as a failure. Wait and see how the team works out over the next couple of years first. He is there to oversee the development of younger players and keep an eye on what is happening in the states as much as straight out selection, isn't he? And he did coach the U19's to the WC final win so he does have definite ideas on what young talent is out there.

I'd really like Hilditch to be turfed though. He comes out with so much brainless trash when he speaks to the media.

I don't tbink they can bring Smith in as just a bowler, he's not far enough along in development. NSW don't use him as just a bowler, he usually bats 5 or 6 for them.
 
Beeswax, totally accept what you are saying re:Smith, but under the circumstances he could do no worse than any of the bowlers they have tried and would give the batting more depth. From memory Shane had not played for victoria when selected for Australia and was on a hiding to nowhere in his first test. Smith simply has to take the step and do it, he has shown on his on days he can now he needs to learn to be on all the time.
Sorry but just don't get any confidence from Chappell. Juniors is one thing, remembering our youth development far out does any other country, his senior work has been very plain. The selectors have a real feel of panic about them, i would rather see a younger team kept stable whether they win or loose, have faith. Loosing to the pom's may hurt but the selectors reactions are the same as what the pom's did for the past 20 years.
 
But how do you know it is Chappell making all these decisions? There are other selectors and he said after Johnson was dropped for the Adelaide test that he found out about it via sms. There is a chairman of selctors plus 2 others who have been on the panel a lot longer.

'The selectors have a real feel of panic about them, i would rather see a younger team kept stable whether they win or loose, have faith. Loosing to the pom's may hurt but the selectors reactions are the same as what the pom's did for the past 20 years.'

The point is that they haven't been choosing younger players and sticking with them. This is the first time that we've got two under 25's in the team at the same time in... I don't know how long. They've been choosing older players and sticking with them.
Perhaps they will stick with Smith and Hughes now, god knows they gave Marcus North more than enough rope to hang hmself with.

It may look like panic to you and it probably is, but as far as I am concerned, this is the panic they have been avoiding all year by keeping their head in the sands about the batsmen and they have brought it on themselves.

Bowlers are a different kettle of fish, they have had so many players injured in the bowling unit that it is hardly surprising that they never really worked out what was the best attack as a unit. Not many of them have played together for more than one series in a row apart from the 2009 SA winning lot and they dropped MacDonald from that unit.

With Smith, I think it is ok to treat him as an all-rounder, they just have to stick with him for a couple of series at least. That is what they did with North, so they were bound to be looking for another all-rounder.
 
Beer, Bollinger and a couple of hussies goes good together at a party so why not try the mix in the test team?
 
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