The Serious Discussion Thread.

[Richie]

US' split with EU allies to side with Russia in UN vote on Ukraine sparks concern​

Votes on three UN resolutions demanding an end to the three-year war Russian war on Ukraine on Monday saw the United States split from its European allies by refusing to hold Moscow accountable for its invasion, marking a major shift in transatlantic relations under President Donald Trump.

The surprise move comes after Trump decided to start direct talks with Russia to end the war, shocking Ukraine and its allies in Europe by not including them in the initial discussions last week.

At the UN General Assembly in New York, the US joined Russia in voting against a Europe-backed Ukrainian resolution that called out Moscow's aggression and demanded an immediate withdrawal of Russian troops.

The US then abstained from voting on its competing resolution after the European Union led by France, succeeded in amending it to make clear Russia was the aggressor.


EFFING TRAITORS TO THE WEST!

 

[looker-on]

o what changed the legitimate Ukraine Presidents mind?

(For some reason the image is not visible.)
Zelensky is on his last legs. That's why. He's going to sell those critical minerals in exchange for security guarantees although Ukraine will also need them for its own reconstruction efforts.

 

[looker-on]

View attachment 3254

A Lab making the better poodle here.

 

[Grier]

The Art of the Steal!

I can understand why Ukraine is open to Trump's deal for half of their Rare Earth's. That's a filthy immoral deal trying to make a buck out of the misery of the ILLEGAL INVASION of a sovereign state. Still, when one's between a rock and a hard place ... with greedy facists pushing buttons, their ain't much wriggle room.

Now the US is siding with hard right facist War Criminals I'd like to see the global community expel the US from all agreements like NATO ... They can stick their AUKUS treaty too where the sun doesn't shine.

I'm disgusted what the US is now when once I had great respec for them.
Under Trump they're just like another Rogue state. Biden made a "gift" of hundreds of billions of dollars to protect the Ukraine being overrun by an evil despotic Russia. Now Trump demands they owe him ~ half a trillion $$$, justifying wanting half of Ukaine's Rare Earth's....
Zelenskyy's opted to go with that. I think he thinks with a US presence in Ukraine it'd deter Russia from another illegal invasion?
It's said the love of money is the root of all evil. Trump loves money.
Will Ukraine need to give up their conquered provinces? I bet that's the sweetener for Putin. What about Russia's Kursk Oblast region now held by Ukanian forces.
Numbers of North Korean troops were sent to Kursk to repel the battle hardened Ukanian forces. They were told they'd be fighting South Koreans!
An ABC article. That's an aggregeous lie from an evil autocracy.

 

[Grier]

As for China's naval squad circumnavigating our Australia, how's that? Caught!
A Virgin Airplane spotted them and we're now tailing them, closely which is a good exercise for our AWACs ....
They're currently heading west across the Australian Bight towards my Western Austrailia. There are rumours of the 3 warships being followed by one of their Nuclear subs.
After they've docked In Perth I bet there'd be a big rush of Uber Eats delivering our best ever great selection of Chinese Cuisine to their dock at our Fremantle Bay. My local favourite is Ming Dynasty.

If they continue sneaking up the west coast of Australia, my Western Australia, I wonder how they'll go going past Pine Gap. A big long time USA Surveilance facility near, ....,ssh ... ? There's reefs, shallows and giant sharks up there.
I wonder if we can confirm if they have sub in tow? I hope so.

 

[looker-on]

Will Ukraine need to give up their conquered provinces? I bet that's the sweetener for Putin. What about Russia's Kursk Oblast region now held by Ukanian forces.

That's quite likely. Not sure what he can hope to get in exchange for Kursk. Let's hope that that move will bear fruit.
The trouble is that a large part of those rare earths lies in those very territories. Zelensky would lose both the land and the resources needed for a deal with Trump.

They were told they'd be fighting South Koreans!

I hadn't heard of that but it would fit in with Putin's malicious strategy.

Have you heard of Macron admitting, for the first time to my knowledge, that NATO had not always treated Moscow fairly.

According to Ukrainian sources and The Financial Times, the deal to be signed on Friday does not include any security guarantees by the US... Really looks like Trump having all the trump cards in his hands.

 

[Grier]

That's quite likely. Not sure what he can hope to get in exchange for Kursk. Let's hope that that move will bear fruit.
The trouble is that a large part of those rare earths lies in those very territories. Zelensky would lose both the land and the resources needed for a deal with Trump.

Opps, that's interesting. Very interesting.

I hadn't heard of that but it would fit in with Putin's malicious strategy.

Have you heard of Macron admitting, for the first time to my knowledge, that NATO had not always treated Moscow fairly.

I hadn't heard that Thomas and ... don't know what to say but 'highly plausible'.

According to Ukrainian sources and The Financial Times does the deal to be signed on Friday not include any security guarantees from the US... Really looks like Trump having all the trump cards in his hands.

Trump wants European Peace keepers... atm...

 

[Richie]

we're now tailing them, closely which is a good exercise for our AWACs

Bout time. We really have brain dead people in charge of the security of our country. We are an island and a giant one with a huge coastline. So with the current chaos pervading our planet at present and following the flare firing incident on our plane, that it was a no brainer to not think there'd be a reprisal as the Oriental does not like to lose face. We needed to have our AWACs patrolling our skies as it should have been one of those not a bloody commercial airline pilot to first report the intruding Commie ships off our coast. Our waning govt took their eye off the ball and had the CC intention been aggressive rather that regressive, we could now be facing the very real prospect of invasion.

 

[Richie]

TRUMP IS CLUELESS!!!

Fact-checking Trump's claims on US financial support to Ukraine

Trump says the minerals deal he has signed with Kyiv will allow the US to recuperate up to $350 billion in financial support. Euronews fact checks the claims. #EuroVerify

www.euronews.com

 

[Richie]

The trouble is that a large part of those rare earths lies in those very territories. Zelensky would lose both the land and the resources needed for a deal with Trump.

Hearing 20% Thomas, which is sizeable. No clarification if that is in the Dombas or Crimea. Uks incursion into Russian Kursk is about 500km, tiny by comparison to the land size of the other two stolen regions. With Trump and Putin brokering this deal, the big loser is Uk even if their nation returns to peace.

 

[Richie]

Trump wants European Peace keepers... atm...

One report said Putin was open to this, while a later one by a Kremlin spokesman said that was incorrect and that no foreign troops will be permitted in Ukraine. Does this over ruling of Putin, the President and leader, by one of his Kremlin hawkes point to cracks appearing at a Russian hierarchical level.

 

[looker-on]

According to Ukrainian sources and The Financial Times, the deal to be signed on Friday does not include any security guarantees by the US...

Now they're saying that the minerals deal is just a framework agreement to be followed by a more detailed one that will include funding and security guarantees. Let's hope Kiev will get something in return. What some describe as a "minerals partnership" others regard as unscrupulously taking advantage of a country fighting with its back to the wall.

 

[Richie]

What some describe as a "minerals partnership" others regard as unscrupulously taking advantage of a country fighting with its back to the wall.

The Yanks call it that but all fair minded people call it your descriptive way Thomas.

 

[Grier]

I met a couple of Pro Russian blokes recently saying all sorts of rubbish. They love Trump and I gave one my thoughts on the evil empires, including Trump's scurrilous behaviours. I can't believe how he wants to bribe Ukraine with his usual flakely promises. I loved the clip of Trump's Gaza Reviera with the golden statue of himself... so tasteless! Fact checkers say Trump lied (again) how much the US gave Ukraine. He more than doubled the figure. I think Arithmetic wasn't his forte, nor manners, ... nor morality, ... nor memory, ... nor .....
I put these clowns into my mental "stupid nasty file" along with anti-vaxxers.

 

[looker-on]

I met a couple of Pro Russian blokes recently saying all sorts of rubbish. They love Trump and I gave one my thoughts on the evil empires, including Trump's scurrilous behaviours. I can't believe how he wants to bribe Ukraine with his usual flakely promises. I loved the clip of Trump's Gaza Reviera with the golden statue of himself... so tasteless! Fact checkers say Trump lied (again) how much the US gave Ukraine. He more than doubled the figure. I think Arithmetic wasn't his forte, nor manners, ... nor morality, ... nor memory, ... nor .....
I put these clowns into my mental "stupid nasty file" along with anti-vaxxers.

Exactly. He came up with the figure of 500 bn while, all in all, the US have spent less than 200 bn. Certainly no trifle but it's so typical of Trump to blow it out of proportion.

 

[Grier]

I do like using AI and asked Meta something like:
How is Trump adversly affecting the World?
From the mouths of the world, the AI said :

Donald Trump's presidency is causing significant global damage across various areas.

*Climate Change*: Trump has promised to repeal federal regulations on greenhouse-gas emissions, which will exacerbate climate change impacts, including damages to infrastructure, loss of livelihoods, and increased national security risks. The estimated annual cost of climate disasters in the United States is $150 billion ¹.

*Global Trade*: Trump's trade policies, including tariffs on Chinese imports, may lead to a tit-for-tat escalation, causing inflation in the United States and globally. His approach to trade is focused on bilateral imbalances, which may harm international trade relationships ¹.

*International Relations*: Trump's "America first" policy may strain relationships with European allies, particularly regarding NATO and the European Union. His administration may demand more from the EU on trade, China policy, and support for Ukraine ¹.

*Democracy Promotion*: Trump's approach to global democracy promotion is likely to be more constrained and transactional, prioritizing strategic interests over global democratization efforts. This may lead to inconsistent US support for democracy initiatives worldwide ¹.

*Taiwan and China*: Trump's presidency may increase tensions with China, particularly regarding Taiwan. His administration's transactionalist approach may lead to uncertainty and potential instability in the region ¹.

These are just a few examples of the global damage caused by Trump's presidency. His policies and approach to international relations are likely to have far-reaching consequences for the United States and the world.

That's Sad.

 

[Richie]

I put these clowns into my mental "stupid nasty file" along with anti-vaxxers.

Yes to those. My son was an anti-vaxer and I have listened to his strong argument and he convinced me that there was proof that more people died taking certain vaccines than not taking them, but inexplicably this was never released to mainstream media.

 

[looker-on]

I do like using AI and asked Meta something like:
How is Trump adversly affecting the World?
From the mouths of the world, the AI said :

Donald Trump's presidency is causing significant global damage across various areas.

*Climate Change*: Trump has promised to repeal federal regulations on greenhouse-gas emissions, which will exacerbate climate change impacts, including damages to infrastructure, loss of livelihoods, and increased national security risks. The estimated annual cost of climate disasters in the United States is $150 billion ¹.

*Global Trade*: Trump's trade policies, including tariffs on Chinese imports, may lead to a tit-for-tat escalation, causing inflation in the United States and globally. His approach to trade is focused on bilateral imbalances, which may harm international trade relationships ¹.

*International Relations*: Trump's "America first" policy may strain relationships with European allies, particularly regarding NATO and the European Union. His administration may demand more from the EU on trade, China policy, and support for Ukraine ¹.

*Democracy Promotion*: Trump's approach to global democracy promotion is likely to be more constrained and transactional, prioritizing strategic interests over global democratization efforts. This may lead to inconsistent US support for democracy initiatives worldwide ¹.

*Taiwan and China*: Trump's presidency may increase tensions with China, particularly regarding Taiwan. His administration's transactionalist approach may lead to uncertainty and potential instability in the region ¹.

These are just a few examples of the global damage caused by Trump's presidency. His policies and approach to international relations are likely to have far-reaching consequences for the United States and the world.

That's Sad.

Interesting, Terry, especially because AI seems to be confirming views we ,to a considerable extent, share but maybe with one exception.

I stumbled over the point "Democracy Promotion". Is that term part of his agenda or has it been generated by AI? I just wondered if Trump is/can be expected to promote democracy and if he fails to do so, he'll be assessed accordingly? I'm a bit baffled why that should be a relevant category for judging Trump?
That led me to thinking about the wider implications of AI. What happens actually if AI-generated content is not to one's liking and if it's presented by people with different views? How do we evaluate the quality of AI output?

 

[Grier]

Interesting, Terry, especially because AI seems to be confirming views we ,to extent, share but maybe with one exception.

Indeed agreed

I stumbled over the point "Democracy Promotion". Is that term part of his agenda or has it been generated by AI?

Not sure, semantics?

I just wondered if Trump is/can be expected to promote democracy and if he fails to do so, he'll be assessed accordingly? I'm a bit baffled why that should be a relevant category for judging Trump?

He's a wannabe Depotic Dictator imho trampling over long considered humanitarian conventions, norms and international UN laws. He undermines Democracy with his heavy handed edicts thinking he's like a King with his big mandate, and a connived populist appeal to les miserables, who ironically seem the most likely to suffer from his self defeating tariffs. God help them if the US implodes.

I'm sure he comes across as an example of a bad Actor who inspires other wannabe Depotic bad actors to follow his example, like refusing to accept fair and Democratic election results ... even rioting and attacking physically like the inspired Capitol Hill Attack.
Now even the worst of the worst pardoned and praised as Patriots under a regime of hard hard right ...

I've heard in hard times people tend to lean to conservative politics.

 

[looker-on]

Indeed agreed

Not sure, semantics?

He's a wannabe Depotic Dictator imho tramping over long considered humanitarian conventions, norms and international UN laws. He undermines Democracy with his heavy handed edicts thinking he's like a King with his connived populist appeal to les miserables, who ironically seem the most likely to suffer from his self defeating tariffs.


g tariffs

Quite. Your final sentence should be set in stone.