And remind Glen that basic human rules mean you don't give yourself your nickname, others do that for you ("Bigshow"? Wtf?).
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
Cleanprophet
Active Member
Yeah, you're right of course. The simplest method is to keep the ball just outside offstump so that the batter has to fetch it a little, even if the angle is towards the stumps.
One thing that did work well was bowl it a little slower, but you can only do that once or twice. He was well through his shot but missed the ball and hadn't left his crease. I suppose it is a matter of doing all these things. I could go wider and still angle/drift it into just outside off and then get tight into the stumps and angle it down the offside, as well as varying the pace and throwing in the topspinner. Just keep varying it. I tended to bowl from the same spot on the crease and didn't vary the pace very much. That just allows the batter to line you up. Not to mention that I put a few too many on legstump.
Re the sweep and the slog sweep. This is what I coach to our junior batsmen and what I do myself.
From a batsman's point of view, I will use the orthodox sweep to a length ball pitching outside leg stump, so I can cover the line of the stumps with my pad and then sweep risk-free along the ground behind square. I will use the slog sweep to a length ball outside off stump and there is no easy run scoring opportunity through the offside. I aim to hit in front of square for six. This way I know that I can miss the ball and not get bowled, making it a reasonably high percentage shot.
If you want to stop someone sweeping, you need to bowl full and straight at the stumps. That way if they miss it, they're gone. A sensible batsman will stop sweeping immediately, if they're stupid enough to carry on, they won't last long before being bowled or lbw (see: England's tactics in UEA against Pakistan). Sidespin is less relevant against horizontal bat shots, but if you mix in in heavy backspin or topspin and changes in pace - particularly quicker balls - you will soon get them. See Warne vs McCullen in the big bash for an example.
On another note, had some fun last night in a T20 bowling with a shiny ball on a greasy but hard pitch. Bowled quite flat and quick and the ball was really drifting and zipping through. Took 2-8 off 4 overs.
From a batsman's point of view, I will use the orthodox sweep to a length ball pitching outside leg stump, so I can cover the line of the stumps with my pad and then sweep risk-free along the ground behind square. I will use the slog sweep to a length ball outside off stump and there is no easy run scoring opportunity through the offside. I aim to hit in front of square for six. This way I know that I can miss the ball and not get bowled, making it a reasonably high percentage shot.
If you want to stop someone sweeping, you need to bowl full and straight at the stumps. That way if they miss it, they're gone. A sensible batsman will stop sweeping immediately, if they're stupid enough to carry on, they won't last long before being bowled or lbw (see: England's tactics in UEA against Pakistan). Sidespin is less relevant against horizontal bat shots, but if you mix in in heavy backspin or topspin and changes in pace - particularly quicker balls - you will soon get them. See Warne vs McCullen in the big bash for an example.
On another note, had some fun last night in a T20 bowling with a shiny ball on a greasy but hard pitch. Bowled quite flat and quick and the ball was really drifting and zipping through. Took 2-8 off 4 overs.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
A greasy and hard pitch sounds just about perfect.
I have seen plenty of batters take the slog sweep on from middle and even leg stump. Toby Radford is a pretty good coach and there's a video of him on youtube talking about the slog sweep and he's taking balls from leg stump. I suppose it's just a question of how much of a gamble you want to take. With a normal stance, any ball on off stump or just outside will be in that hitting arc. Once it is on middle/leg then the batter will really have to clear that front foot and make room for a full swing..
You're spot on though. Full and at off stump is the best way to combat the slog sweep. I was bowling too many on a good length and on middle/leg. The batter was clearing his front leg and slog sweeping. Funnily enough, anything on or outside off stump he wasn't slogging. Varying my angle of attack, pace and overspin will help also.
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Its not your typical spinner's dream pitch, as the ball tends to skid straight on, although I did get a couple to hit the seam and grip. But it was so quick and bouncy that it was fun to bowl on.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
I quite like those types of pitches. I can get the ball to turn on wet astro-turf and have no problem getting a bit of turn on greasy pitches. With the ball bouncing and skidding on, I can focus on getting a bit of turn. The one thing I just don't like are slow pitches. I'll happily sacrifice some turn for a quick pitch.
I played on a very dry pitch on Sunday that was a touch slow. In fairness, it was pretty good for bowling with lots of overspin. The trouble for me is that I'm only now just developing the topspinner. It isn't quite good enough just yet to really utilise it on those types of pitches.
boogiespinner
Active Member
Surely the slog sweep is effective in an arc, a given radius from the stumps. Ergo, I would have thought a batsman could simply adjust his angle to look towards mid off, or further square if necessary, and then he has a slog sweep for offside deliveries. If he angles towards leg, then he can slog sweep leg side deliveries.
I would have thought alternating between topspin / non-topspin deliveries would be the thing.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
I think it's all about changing things up in terms of line, trajectory, pace and spin direction. As much as anything, it is about having an instinct for the what the batter is trying to do and spotting which areas are his strengths. A batter who is looking to slog sweep at every opportunity just requires you to pitch it up a bit fuller.
The thing I was looking at was not to stop a batter slog sweeping but to encourage it. I want the batter to slog sweep, but I was just looking at ways to induce the shot and get a top edge.
One thing I was doing yesterday evening was getting in right in front of the stumps and angling the ball outside legstump, turning it back quite sharply towards the top of middle and off. The batter was struggling with that line of attack quite a bit (I must have hit his box about 4 or 5 times) and he said it was a really awkward line of attack that he hadn't faced before. It's a bit like going around the wicket because I was getting the odd ball released on or just outside a legstump line and staying on that line. I might try it this Sunday in a game. But above all else, it really does show the importance of using the crease and your line of attack.
I also tried bowling with a completely upright arm (I've noticed quite a lot of modern legspinners have a perpendicular arm) as well as going a bit more roundarm. Just to alter the trajectory. All of this sort of stuff is quite useful just for getting a good idea of your action rather than specifically for match use.
boogiespinner
Active Member
Physio is impressed with the healing of my shoulder. It was lacking mobility last week, this week it's up to normal (180 degrees forward and back? I forget) although my left shoulder has a bit more bend in it. Have some strengthening exercises to do.
Had a brief practise against brick wall today, and tried a few of Grimmett's wrong wrongun's. I think they are worth pursuing. Grimmett said that he didn't do much with them as they were slow off the pitch. But surely they could be a weapon against a driving batsman? In which case, the slowness off the pitch might be no disadvantage.
I found it difficult to control the seam angle. A precious few came out, I think, close to square legspin. Most looked like they had a lot of backspin on them. I've just had a quick practise hand-to-hand and think that's the way forward.
Had a brief practise against brick wall today, and tried a few of Grimmett's wrong wrongun's. I think they are worth pursuing. Grimmett said that he didn't do much with them as they were slow off the pitch. But surely they could be a weapon against a driving batsman? In which case, the slowness off the pitch might be no disadvantage.
I found it difficult to control the seam angle. A precious few came out, I think, close to square legspin. Most looked like they had a lot of backspin on them. I've just had a quick practise hand-to-hand and think that's the way forward.
Darth Spin
Active Member
Bowl a wrong un into his face. Slog sweep that.
Darth Spin
Active Member
Well I guess it might work in India.
boogiespinner
Active Member
Had a practise today first alone and then had a pick up net. Managed to bowl a few wrong wrong'uns with some success. Quite bizarre though. Some turned to the off quite nicely, and skidded through too. The strange thing was - I have no idea how - some turned to leg instead. I even bowled one with a batsman at the other end, I don't think it turned much but flippered him.
Not picked for this weekend's match
Not picked for this weekend's match
Darth Spin
Active Member
I finally had a t20 match tonight. Didn't bat, didn't bowl but managed to field for the opposition for four of their overs and umpired the other sixteen. We were soundly beaten. Probably the worst match I've ever played in. Sunday's opposition have already cancelled on us but I wasn't picked anyway. So 11-1-49-1 is still the sum total of my efforts this season. We managed to take one wicket, which was a run out. Some of our bowlers took a real hammering. They knocked off our pretty dismal total of 91 in 12 overs on what looked like a nice pitch for batting on.
A left arm wristy on their team got a double wicket maiden in a nice 3 over spell.
A left arm wristy on their team got a double wicket maiden in a nice 3 over spell.
Darth Spin
Active Member
So a hastily arranged 35 over game goes ahead today. I'm not picked but the oppo are a few players short so I agree to play. I can see where it is going a mile off... thinking I won't really be involved. Captain asks me if I'm a batsman or bowler and I say I'd much prefer to bowl, tell him it's leg spin etc. We bat first and I go in at nine with the score on 36-7. I get 12 runs (top scorer) and we're all out for 48 off something like 15 overs.
Our turn to field and predictably I'm not given a bowl, although another spinner is given a generous six over spell. The runs are quickly knocked off and that's game over. Or is it? Due to the short game we decide to play a t20. "Excellent, finally I'll get a bowl". And I'm opening! Splendid. I bowl 2-0-8-0, the captain gives me a shout and gives me the international symbol for time-out with his hands. "You ****ing what?", I'm thinking. I ask him to clarify and he says "take a break, mate". I swear it took all my will power not to go home at that point. He then gives his mate, the other spinner, another four over spell to take him onto 10 for the day. To add insult to injury I'm then told to field for both teams as we're still short of numbers.
Stupid game. When does the World Cup start?
Our turn to field and predictably I'm not given a bowl, although another spinner is given a generous six over spell. The runs are quickly knocked off and that's game over. Or is it? Due to the short game we decide to play a t20. "Excellent, finally I'll get a bowl". And I'm opening! Splendid. I bowl 2-0-8-0, the captain gives me a shout and gives me the international symbol for time-out with his hands. "You ****ing what?", I'm thinking. I ask him to clarify and he says "take a break, mate". I swear it took all my will power not to go home at that point. He then gives his mate, the other spinner, another four over spell to take him onto 10 for the day. To add insult to injury I'm then told to field for both teams as we're still short of numbers.
Stupid game. When does the World Cup start?
Spin Lizard
Active Member
look on the bright side, you went from not playing at all to getting double figures and opening the bowling! How'd that go for you? new ball or the one from the earlier game?
Darth Spin
Active Member
It was the one from the earlier game. It went okay, not great. Bowled a little bit short and slow but didn't get hit for boundaries. One guy got it for 34 runs from 7 balls at the end of the t20 game including four sixes in a row at the start of his first over.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
Those types of games are not really the best for legspinners. In general, those types of games are a bit of a farce. You can't help but feel that it's not even worth playing. Apart from anything else, you often end up bowling against sloggers who couldn't care less about getting out.
I played today and we played on a pretty dodgy ground. The dimensions of the pitch mean that the legside boundary is about 30yards-35yards. I was told, when one of the 1st/2nd team batters came in, that this batter never plays with a straight bat. Only ever cuts and pulls. In my case, as a legspinner, it was slog sweep after slog sweep. To be fair, he smashed one back at me and I didn't take the catch. It was hit hard and low (around my shins) and I just didn't react quick enough to even get my hand on it - ended up going for a boundary four. Other than that, this batter swung hard for that short legside boundary and hit it quite a few times. I took the one wicket and it was just the same as the previous week with a batter slogging against the spin and gloving it up to the keeper. I had the other batter play and miss a few times, bowling a couple of absolute jaffers to him (one of which had him talking to me about at the end of the over, saying how good it was). There were a few heaves and mishits too. I'm not sure of my figures in the end. I know I got 1 for 51, but don't know how many overs I bowled. I think it was about 8 overs.
They scored 249 off 40 overs and we knocked off the runs for the loss of one wicket in the 39th over. That sort of scoring gives you an idea of how easy the scoring was on this small ground. I had a six hit off me (slog sweep and the only six achieved off my bowling) that would have been caught inside the boundary at cow corner on pretty much any other ground. That can be frustrating but you always have to put it in context.
I didn't try any variations except for a couple of sliders. Other than that, I tried to vary the pace and used the crease a fair bit too. I tried that tactic of getting right in front of the stumps and bowling straight from wicket-to-wicket, maybe even angled slightly down legside. Have to say, it was an effective change up and it's something I will try again. We've arranged a friendly game next Sunday against the under-16s in our club. We have some pretty decent young lads so it will be interesting to see how they play. Most of them look to play straight and with the spin, so I may go from playing against legside sloggers to having to force batters into aggressive shots.
boogiespinner
Active Member
You definitely won't get a bowl if you're sat watching the footie
Darth Spin
Active Member
Sorry to hear about your woes. But at least you got a wicket!
I had a stinking t20 game tonight. I didn't bat and we made 119. So they're on about 50-1 with about six overs gone (15 overs, 8 ball overs). I'm given a bowl. First three balls are okay, they pick up a couple of singles. Next ball gets spooned straight to long off, fielder gets both hands on it cleanly but down it goes. Argh! Then the real pain starts. The batsmen, who is their best player and well set, runs two from the dropped catch and then hits 6,4,0,6 from the last four balls. I'm duly taken off and we go on to lose. Hard this leg spin lark, eh?
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boogiespinner
Active Member
Legspin is really really hard for sure.
Have been doing some solo practice from standing at around three-quarter length. Stock ball has too much topspin on it. Trying to develop the square one. Went back to underarm and roundarm! I'm getting some promising turn and bounce from artificial but slow pace and erratic. Googlies are going everywhere.
Having some promise with the the thumb-spun stuff. Although I haven't mastered control the wrong wrong'un is definitely possible from 22 yards and is coming out for me with flipper qualities. The back-spinning flipper should be easier.
I can't really throw all into practice thanks to shoulder concerns. It's a lot better though.
Have been doing some solo practice from standing at around three-quarter length. Stock ball has too much topspin on it. Trying to develop the square one. Went back to underarm and roundarm! I'm getting some promising turn and bounce from artificial but slow pace and erratic. Googlies are going everywhere.
Having some promise with the the thumb-spun stuff. Although I haven't mastered control the wrong wrong'un is definitely possible from 22 yards and is coming out for me with flipper qualities. The back-spinning flipper should be easier.
I can't really throw all into practice thanks to shoulder concerns. It's a lot better though.