Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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someblokecalleddave said:
In which case that's it the paddock days are almost certainly over and I'll have to go elsewhere to practice which is a real shame as it was so close and convenient.
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Hopefully they'll put the same type of fence back up. It's about a 15min drive for me to go to the nets, which is a bit of a pain. Be nice to have something on the doorstep.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Told you it looked good! I wouldn't worry too much about the over-spin personally, as long as it's turning a little and varying a little you'll get wickets. I'd say groove that action, get it so that it's mechanical and repeatable and work towards accuracy - but keep spinning it hard so that it loops and dips, the loop and vicious dip + a bit of turn targeting the middle and off or around there forcing the bat to play is going to bring dividends. Then slowly look at getting it to come out of the hand with more side spin?
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Yeah, the thing that concerned me and got me looking and videoing my action again was the fact that batters were starting to play me more easily. That's when I discovered that I was getting less sidespin on the ball. I remember thinking "but even a ball that is 80% overspin and 20% sidespin should be decent enough to cause problems". What I didn't realise was that I wasn't getting enough revs on the ball to get very much dip on the ball so that overspinning ball was quite easy to play for a lot of batters.The process of trying to get the pure legspinner back has ended up getting me bowling with a lot more revs on the ball, so now that 80% overspin will be much more effective.

I agree with what you're saying completely. Focus on getting this new approach much more natural and producing consistent line and length. It was fairly decent tonight (one or two balls slipping full down the legside, which suggests the fingers were not getting over the ball fully) but I can get that approach much more repeatable. One thing that is a little inconsistent is the position at the crease. Some balls my front foot moves more towards the line of the stumps and sometimes the delivery stride is a little bit wider. It's a factor because getting that front foot across helps keep me upright.

I'll tell you another thing as well. The top of my arm (bottom of the deltoid and top of the tricep) is feeling it. I've never had any feeling in this part of my arm before. But it feels like it's had a good workout. I'm not entirely sure why that is. Could be that this different action is using the arm more than it used to or simply that the increase of speed into the crease is getting the whole action (including the arm speed) working with more energy.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Bad news here in Langdon Hills, went to work in the morning and there was a couple of blokes in the Paddock removing the goal posts. Got home tonight and found they've taken down the roadside chain link 6' fence and replaced it with a low wooden fence that 18" high. Then on closer inspection discovered the 6' chain link fence behind the stumps has gone too. Some of their stuff is still there, so they're obviously back again tomorrow, whether they're going to replace the fence with another new 6' one or not remains to be seen, but I've got a sneaky suspicion they're not going to. In which case that's it the paddock days are almost certainly over and I'll have to go elsewhere to practice which is a real shame as it was so close and convenient. Or maybe string a net up every time I want to have a bowl which will be a real pain. I'm gutted.
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oh noes!
 
I was thinking about the inclination to drop that left shoulder when you rotate and then about Warne's action. His left arm pulls down to his left leg and his left hand lands on his left thigh. In so doing, he produces not just a braced left leg but a whole braced left-hand side and prevents his left shoulder dropping too much in the process by having his left hand push against his left thigh. This whole action really throws his right-hand side around strongly.
 
Did some bowling in the nets yesterday. Produced a good number of legspinners but still produced a few topspinners as a result of that left shoulder dropping a bit too much. Here's a couple of deliveries where the release is pretty good:





As you can see, that left shoulder is still dropping a little bit more than would be ideal, but it is high enough to enable me to bowl the legspinner. Now, from just about 15mins later, I bowled 4 or 5 balls in a row like this one:



It's not that easy to see, but I've looked at it, measured it and discovered that in this last video my left shoulder has dropped a little bit more and the angle between my head and my standing foot is a bit bigger. The result is that this ball has mostly overspin on it. It still turns a bit off a wet track, but you can see the release is much more of a topspinning release. This all comes about by that left shoulder dropping a little bit more and that then pulling the bowling hand into a slightly more upright position. Looking back at the videos from the 1st Sep, I can see that I am a little more upright than I am in the first two videos above. Again, we're talking about a slight change in position and most people wouldn't even notice it. That slight change in position manifests itself in the amount of sidespin I'm getting. It's all very subtle but even a slight dip of the left shoulder creates more overspin. A month or two ago that left shoulder was dipping a lot and every ball was either spinning straight on and spinning into the stumps.

The clue is almost always in the follow through. The more you move to your left in the follow through, the more you have pulled to your left and dropped your left shoulder. Of course, that head position is the other clue. Keeping it upright will keep the left shoulder higher.

Once you get control over how much you drop that left shoulder, you can get control over the sidespin to overspin ratio. As you see in that last video, the ball has a nice loop on it and still turns. It's an effective ball and one you would certainly want to bowl from time to time.
 
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struggled down to nets earlier today - first time in a week. I've been to a festival and have had a nasty bug after returning.

Ball felt like foreign and slippery in the hand and I felt weak. Did maybe 20 minutes practice before stopping :(
 
I 'never' read this thread... too active and too long! However, trying to find out why Dave went to Derbyshire [fun? pain?] I came across something.

OK... if you need to lean for your bowling arm to achieve vertical, you have an issue with your posture. Possibly soft tissue with tension in upper traps/ rhomboids, shortening of rotator cuffs, particularly supraspinatus or pure biomechanical deficit; failing to rotate the scapula [shoulder blades]! If you cannot raise your arms to vertical without leaning, get it assessed! :)
 
Liz Ward said:
I 'never' read this thread... too active and too long! However, trying to find out why Dave went to Derbyshire [fun? pain?] I came across something.

OK... if you need to lean for your bowling arm to achieve vertical, you have an issue with your posture. Possibly soft tissue with tension in upper traps/ rhomboids, shortening of rotator cuffs, particularly supraspinatus or pure biomechanical deficit; failing to rotate the scapula [shoulder blades]! If you cannot raise your arms to vertical without leaning, get it assessed! :)
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Sounds about right. For me, I'm not aiming for a vertical arm. I'm actually trying to drop the arm from a slightly less vertical position. I do lean however but I think this is more out of habit rather than a posture issue. Could be an issue for others however. And yes, you're spot on. This thread is very long and active!
 
Another day, another journey to the nets. I'm getting better and better with that position at the crease and the new run up is coming on nicely. However, I'm still not quite 100% recovered from the problem I was having. I've discovered something about my hand position right from the moment my bowling arm is behind me right through the rise of the bowling arm into the release position. It is something I've looked at before but this time I looked into it in more details. A little bit anorak (a little!), but I used little markers on the screen that pointed in the direction of my fingers right through that action as my arm rises into the delivery position. In short, when I get the release wrong my fingers are pointed down towards the ground for too long. By the time my arm is at its highest point and ready to flick the wrist open, the fingers are still pointing behind me a fair bit. They should be pointing square (as they are when I get the release spot on) as they were on the picture of Warne that boogiespinner posted on here somewhere last week.

Not sure if that's a psychological thing. Quite probably is. I also used markers to compare my head and left foot position. On the better deliveries, my head was higher (maybe getting on for half a foot higher). For now though, I need to work on that specific hand position as my arm moves into the release position. If those fingers are pointing behind my completely, I will most likely bowl a googly. If they are pointed towards mid-on, I will most likely bowl a topspinner. Square on (towards mid wicket) and I will most likely bowl the legspinner. At the moment, I often start with the hand position spot on and the deliveries are too. As soon as those fingers start pointing behind me, I start bowling the topspinners and don't really get back to bowling the legspinners.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Sounds about right. For me, I'm not aiming for a vertical arm. I'm actually trying to drop the arm from a slightly less vertical position. I do lean however but I think this is more out of habit rather than a posture issue. Could be an issue for others however. And yes, you're spot on. This thread is very long and active!
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Just fun - I've started a photography project, a typology of cricket pavilions so I'm travelling around photographing them in the places I visit. I've got relatives up there and rather than sit in doors watching the tele I was out shooting the pavilions. Their local one is just down the road and there's some nice nets there, so I asked a bloke if I could have a bowl while I was there and I spent 3 hours grooving my new action.
 
End of the season... Played a Sunday friendly today on my home ground :(

We have two grounds the smaller (still quite big) uses by 3s and 4s alternately and a bigger one used by 1s and 2s alternately.

I play the majority if my games for the 4s or 3s so I play on the smaller one, the groundsman doesn't really take care of it and its OK to bowl spin on, thankfully half of our games are away,

Lately I played two 2s games one away and one home on the big ground :(
And the big grounds pitch is always hard and flat, I can't even get an inch of spin, so batsmen come down with confidence and play through the line, today I played on that one and the odd one was spinning a bit but whenever I'm not getting spin my confidence goes down and I bowl crap balls.

How should one bowl on non spinning tracks ? Any spinner can get wickets on a spinning pitch ? But what about hard unspinnable wickets ? ( euuh is that even a word ?)
 
We had a friendly game today against not-very-strong opposition. We set 200 and they were never going to come close. One of our opening bowlers bowled through his overs taking 6-23 and I came on as his change with eight down. It was nice, as I got to build up some confidence with a four over spell. I was getting some really nice turn on a few deliveries, bowled perhaps the first ever maiden of my life and took one wicket which was a nice stumping off a frankly poor delivery. But that's the way it goes. I bowled one drag down but that was the only wide, there were two or three skiers which were put away over square leg for four, otherwise I was putting everything down fairly tightly. I had an easy catch dropped too.

I still wasn't quite in the groove though. My bowling wasn't fast - struggling to bounce on a pudding wicket. And I do have that extra zip when practising in the nets. So, more practice needed...
 
shahidpak said:
How should one bowl on non spinning tracks ? Any spinner can get wickets on a spinning pitch ? But what about hard unspinnable wickets ? ( euuh is that even a word ?)
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Really, there is a distinction between spin and turn. The objective is to spin the ball rather than turn the ball (although turning the ball is something you look to achieve by spinning the ball). The reason for the distinction is that it is spin that causes drift and dip and it is drift and dip that helps you take wickets on tracks that offer very little turn. I would argue that it is better to bowl with drift and dip and no turn than to bowl with no drift or dip but some turn. Decent batters will look to use their feet against a spinner and the only way to really trouble them is by flight/drift/dip and you can do that on any pitch.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Really, there is a distinction between spin and turn. The objective is to spin the ball rather than turn the ball (although turning the ball is something you look to achieve by spinning the ball). The reason for the distinction is that it is spin that causes drift and dip and it is drift and dip that helps you take wickets on tracks that offer very little turn. I would argue that it is better to bowl with drift and dip and no turn than to bowl with no drift or dip but some turn. Decent batters will look to use their feet against a spinner and the only way to really trouble them is by flight/drift/dip and you can do that on any pitch.
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Same thing happened with me today, got the yips initially and got carted and then settled a bit and bowled a lot better - had to return to my Jenner-esque 1 step approach. Once I settled and the field was re-set I did a lot better. May have been the fact that I've played two games back to back as well - maybe a game too far? One thing I will say is that the captain stuck with me, my 1st two overs were dog-crap bad, but I bowled 6 overs in the end, with each over getting better. The other thing is I always get brought on when the batsmen are settled and looking to destroy any spin-bowlers! No wickets, no maidens and a shed load of runs, didn't even dare to look at the figures, but it must have been about 7-8 an over.
These hard wickets where the ball doesn't turn much, yeah you have to come up with something different - basic variations, slower, faster, loopier, top-spin with loads of revs on the ball is a top tactic mixed win with your leg breaks. Flippers if you've got them work well as a variation in these situations.
 
Here's two little clips from my bowling in the nets today. The first one shows that my hand position is as it should be when my bowling hand is at its highest (just as the wrist is about to uncock and flick open):



In this second one you can just about see that by the time my bowling hand is at its highest the fingers are pointing behind me a bit (probably towards mid wicket) and the end result is that the hand flicks open in a topspinning position:



The work I've done on my run up and being more upright at the crease were all needed and will all help. But I now know I've to work on getting that hand position correct at the point that my bowling hand is at its highest.
 
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