Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Top Contributors
someblokecalleddave said:
These hard wickets where the ball doesn't turn much, yeah you have to come up with something different - basic variations, slower, faster, loopier, top-spin with loads of revs on the ball is a top tactic mixed win with your leg breaks. Flippers if you've got them work well as a variation in these situations.
Click to expand...

I've been reading Philpott's book and he quite rightly points out that the key thing is to mess with the batter's judgement of length. We all know the objective is to drag the batter forward (onto the front foot or out of his crease). This is why you have to spin the ball hard because big revs give you dip and dip is the best way to mess with a batter's judgement of length and do the business on soft pitches and hard pitches alike.
 
Last edited:
Some more work down at the nets again today. I suspect I have an issue of sometimes releasing the ball a fraction too early. Obviously, if you release the ball a little bit too early you are not going to be able to drag your spinning finger over the ball. I filmed my release quite close up today and noticed that when I got the release spot on, you could see the seam position pointing straight down the pitch just a fraction of second before the release. Using a two-coloured ball it was very clear how the seam moved from straight down the pitch to then pointing towards 1st/2nd slip just as it is released. I think there's a fair chance that I've been releasing the ball just a little bit too early when that seam is pointing down the pitch and I've not been able to fully finish my action.

It's tricky trying to find any info on the net about the point of release. From what I have seen, the ball is released reasonably late when the arm is a fair bit in front. There's a slow motion of Steven Smith and there's that slow motion of Warne too. In both of them the ball is released when the hand/ball is as far forward as the front foot, maybe even slighly ahead of the front foot.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Some more work down at the nets again today. I suspect I have an issue of sometimes releasing the ball a fraction too early. Obviously, if you release the ball a little bit too early you are not going to be able to drag your spinning finger over the ball. I filmed my release quite close up today and noticed that when I got the release spot on, you could see the seam position pointing straight down the pitch just a fraction of second before the release. Using a two-coloured ball it was very clear how the seam moved from straight down the pitch to then pointing towards 1st/2nd slip just as it is released. I think there's a fair chance that I've been releasing the ball just a little bit too early when that seam is pointing down the pitch and I've not been able to fully finish my action.

It's tricky trying to find any info on the net about the point of release. From what I have seen, the ball is released reasonably late when the arm is a fair bit in front. There's a slow motion of Steven Smith and there's that slow motion of Warne too. In both of them the ball is released when the hand/ball is as far forward as the front foot, maybe even slighly ahead of the front foot.
Click to expand...
I think I said it before, but you do seem to be potentially over-analysing what you're doing, you must be getting to the point where you're bowling action is like getting a Jumbo jet or space craft off the ground...
Run up - check
Get side-on - check
Leading arm - pointing there - check
Looking around the outside of the arm - check
Foot over the imaginary hurdle - check
Wrist cocked - check and so on...

Or do you get to the point where 9 out of 10 of them are fixed and working and then focus on the new issue?
 
Cleanprophet said:
Really, there is a distinction between spin and turn. The objective is to spin the ball rather than turn the ball (although turning the ball is something you look to achieve by spinning the ball). The reason for the distinction is that it is spin that causes drift and dip and it is drift and dip that helps you take wickets on tracks that offer very little turn. I would argue that it is better to bowl with drift and dip and no turn than to bowl with no drift or dip but some turn. Decent batters will look to use their feet against a spinner and the only way to really trouble them is by flight/drift/dip and you can do that on any pitch.
Click to expand...
I knew someone would talk about this but to be honest I don't think dip and drift is enough, it happens too early anyway so batsmen can adjust... I still think it's the same as playing a very slow medium pace bowler, or if you want to add the effect of drift playing a very slow medium pace bowler who can swing I'm sure even I could score runs to this type of bowler...
 
Cleanprophet said:
Really, there is a distinction between spin and turn. The objective is to spin the ball rather than turn the ball (although turning the ball is something you look to achieve by spinning the ball). The reason for the distinction is that it is spin that causes drift and dip and it is drift and dip that helps you take wickets on tracks that offer very little turn. I would argue that it is better to bowl with drift and dip and no turn than to bowl with no drift or dip but some turn. Decent batters will look to use their feet against a spinner and the only way to really trouble them is by flight/drift/dip and you can do that on any pitch.
Click to expand...
I guess one thing I could do is bowl a straighter line on off stump with more top spin to hold that line?
 
shahidpak said:
I guess one thing I could do is bowl a straighter line on off stump with more top spin to hold that line?
Click to expand...
I bowl on off stump just because I can bowl my variations without the line being used to picked the ball, if I bowl on middle and leg for a leggie and then off stump for a googly then it is easy pickings. So I try and keep the same line for all my deliveries so they have to play them, and even if you do bowl slightly outside the off stump, if they know it might be a googly, they will have to play it.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I think I said it before, but you do seem to be potentially over-analysing
Click to expand...

I'm certainly over doing all the analysis. The main problem is not really being able to watch and examine my bowling. I can only video it from one angle and then watch it back afterwards. There's the danger of thinking about too many things and not being relaxed when bowling.
 
Cleanprophet said:
That's the line to bowl. If you get a nice loop on your bowling, then you only need a small amount of turn delivered on that off-stump line.
Click to expand...
Spot on, you've only got to be able to bowl that line or thereabouts and bowl it on a length to induce the drive and you're away... Wickets galore especially if you're able to bowl with variations in side spin and over-spin - just leg breaks with variable of angle, you can go wrong.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Spot on, you've only got to be able to bowl that line or thereabouts and bowl it on a length to induce the drive and you're away... Wickets galore especially if you're able to bowl with variations in side spin and over-spin - just leg breaks with variable of angle, you can go wrong.
Click to expand...

Mishra, by all accounts, would get too much spin when he first started out. He had to adapt to bowling with less spin and sticking to that off-stump line so he could get the edges.
 
Had a good practice today. Bowled for a while, then had the urge to stop and go back home, but broke through it and then went on until sundown. In addition to full or nearly full length I'm really enjoying the one step practice, off 12-16 yards with a bag of balls in my left hand so I don't even have to reach down between deliveries. This is just going for maximum spin and control. I think I had a mini breakthrough, by relaxing the wrist just at the right moment before the flick, seemed to bring some extra spin.

Just I was getting ready to go another guy turned up and started practicing - another legspinner! Really good one too, a Bangladeshi guy who had been doing county trials. We started talking and he said I was practising all wrong... he was taught to just practice off the full length and put line and length first and then worry about increasing the spin! He was very complimentary about the turn I was getting though.
 
What I love about the short length one-pace practice is - you are really free to fool around. I agree I think there is a danger of getting wrapped up in the analysis and there is a lot to discover with playfulness, which you can later refine and cultivate.
 
boogiespinner said:
Had a good practice today. Bowled for a while, then had the urge to stop and go back home, but broke through it and then went on until sundown. In addition to full or nearly full length I'm really enjoying the one step practice, off 12-16 yards with a bag of balls in my left hand so I don't even have to reach down between deliveries. This is just going for maximum spin and control. I think I had a mini breakthrough, by relaxing the wrist just at the right moment before the flick, seemed to bring some extra spin.

Just I was getting ready to go another guy turned up and started practicing - another legspinner! Really good one too, a Bangladeshi guy who had been doing county trials. We started talking and he said I was practising all wrong... he was taught to just practice off the full length and put line and length first and then worry about increasing the spin! He was very complimentary about the turn I was getting though.
Click to expand...
Whoa! He said what???? Who told him to do it that way round? Line and length first and then spin? That's they way I always used to say you should go, but everyone without exception said 'Spin first' line and length later'.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Whoa! He said what???? Who told him to do it that way round? Line and length first and then spin? That's they way I always used to say you should go, but everyone without exception said 'Spin first' line and length later'.
Click to expand...
Just a thing that they do in places where every pitch is a raging turner. If every pitch gave you turn then line and length is the only thing you have to worry about.
 
leftie600 said:
Just a thing that they do in places where every pitch is a raging turner. If every pitch gave you turn then line and length is the only thing you have to worry about.
Click to expand...

Very true. You don't think about it like that but the pitches they grow up playing on are dusty crumbling affairs. I wonder if that helps or hinders the development of a spin bowler? It will certainly help a young spin bowler in terms of confidence and committment.

boogiespinner said:
What I love about the short length one-pace practice is - you are really free to fool around. I agree I think there is a danger of getting wrapped up in the analysis and there is a lot to discover with playfulness, which you can later refine and cultivate.
Click to expand...

I think it's obviously important to play around with a technique. Trying to copy another bowler can be dangerous. I remember Warne would always say that you've got find out what works for you. Get the basics down and then work out how you then need to bowl to get the ball doing what you want it to do. Every spinner is different. I suppose you could look to copy a spinner's technique if that spinner is a very similar build to you. For example, I think it would be very tricky for a slim wirey chap to try and copy Warne's technique.
 
I've bitten the bullet somewhat and gone back to bowling from about 13 or 14 yards. Of course, as soon as I bowl from that distance the wrist position and subsequent release is perfect. Why is it that bowling the shorter distance is so much easier to get that legspin action correct? I've never really known that, but I wonder if it is to do with the point of release being much easier to control as it is a shorter distance?

I filmed my bowling of the full distance from side on and I'm sure I am releasing the ball a fraction too early, but I may be mistaken on that.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Whoa! He said what???? Who told him to do it that way round? Line and length first and then spin? That's they way I always used to say you should go, but everyone without exception said 'Spin first' line and length later'.
Click to expand...
Well I asked him and the coach was a Sri Lankan pro, surname was Mendis and the first name was similar to Ajantha, so googling suggests Eranga Mendis.

I have zero intention of 'line and length first, spin later', but I didn't make an issue of it. This guy plays for Epping CC near you Dave!
 
Cleanprophet said:
I've bitten the bullet somewhat and gone back to bowling from about 13 or 14 yards. Of course, as soon as I bowl from that distance the wrist position and subsequent release is perfect. Why is it that bowling the shorter distance is so much easier to get that legspin action correct? I've never really known that, but I wonder if it is to do with the point of release being much easier to control as it is a shorter distance?
Click to expand...
I am not entirely sure but I think the mystery might concern the period that the ball is only in contact with the spinning finger. If there is any pushing of the ball through with the spinning finger, then it is going to straighten out the spin. As you approach faster delivery speeds I think it becomes harder not to push the ball through (or the effect is more pronounced).

Another way of looking at it - by the time the index/middle fingers come off the ball, the ball must already be moving at the desired release speed.

I think.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top