Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Ouch! I've bowled tonight and videoed it from the side. It looks lame, but then I've also videoed it from the front and it looks fine. I reckon if I took too much notice of the side video I could get hung up about it, but the accuracy and the amount of turn I'm getting means I'm able to think that it doesn't look that pretty (Neither did Paul Adams SA), but it probably works. So I'm forging ahead with it, still keeping things simple just muscle memory repetition for the run up, and tiny adjustments to the leading arm. I've just noticed as I swing the arms forwards to get the initial forwards motion it may be beneficial to swing them to a higher position - more dynamism? I also worked on getting the arm swinging faster - it may be marginally faster I reckon?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Ouch! I've bowled tonight and videoed it from the side. It looks lame, but then I've also videoed it from the front and it looks fine. I reckon if I took too much notice of the side video I could get hung up about it, but the accuracy and the amount of turn I'm getting means I'm able to think that it doesn't look that pretty (Neither did Paul Adams SA), but it probably works. So I'm forging ahead with it, still keeping things simple just muscle memory repetition for the run up, and tiny adjustments to the leading arm. I've just noticed as I swing the arms forwards to get the initial forwards motion it may be beneficial to swing them to a higher position - more dynamism? I also worked on getting the arm swinging faster - it may be marginally faster I reckon?
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It will take a bit of time to make that adjustment with your front arm. Really, you want that front arm movement to be matched by the bowling arm movement. In other words, the front arm should move at the same speed as the bowling arm. If you pull that front arm down with real energy and the bowling arm matches it, you are on the right line.

Moving the arms will certainly have an effect on what you do as you hit the crease. Getting those arms up high will probably have your weight back a little bit and then as you pull the front arm down it will all work with your weight moving forwards, at the target. Certainly, getting that front arm a bit higher will help. I'd suggest doing some stand start of one step start drills with focus on keeping that front arm higher for a little longer (really, just a fraction of second longer) and then really pull down hard with that arm. I remember doing that about a month ago and getting a really strong feel of energy coming from that pull from the arm. It was almost like a revelation. But it did feel unusual and unnatural. It was just another thing you have to think about as you are bowling. As we know, you don't really want anything occupying your mind other than the target. In practice, you can do it and see how it feels. It may take a fair bit of practice to make it natural. But it is well worth trying just to see the difference it makes, even if you don't stick with it. It gives you an idea of what MacGill is talking about when he focused on pulling down hard with that front arm.

Video from side-on can look a little less dynamic. Look at that footage of Warne from side-on. It doesn't look as explosive as it does from behind or front on.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that the slower you bowl it, the more purchase you will get from the surface. So it's not always helpful to correlate what happens off the pitch to what you are doing from the hand. I've been bowling plenty of balls that have been turning away and you could easily think "well, that looks alright". But of course, I've seen the footage of the release and I've been putting too much overspin on the ball. You may be getting good turn but that is probably because you are bowling it about 40mph and quite gentle. That's ok as long as your accuracy is very good. If you land the ball on a good line and length everytime, then you can bowl it at 40mph and get that turn. If you are struggling for consistency of line and length the you either have to focus on improving that or bowling it harder.
 
Cleanprophet said:
It will take a bit of time to make that adjustment with your front arm. Really, you want that front arm movement to be matched by the bowling arm movement. In other words, the front arm should move at the same speed as the bowling arm. If you pull that front arm down with real energy and the bowling arm matches it, you are on the right line.

Moving the arms will certainly have an effect on what you do as you hit the crease. Getting those arms up high will probably have your weight back a little bit and then as you pull the front arm down it will all work with your weight moving forwards, at the target. Certainly, getting that front arm a bit higher will help. I'd suggest doing some stand start of one step start drills with focus on keeping that front arm higher for a little longer (really, just a fraction of second longer) and then really pull down hard with that arm. I remember doing that about a month ago and getting a really strong feel of energy coming from that pull from the arm. It was almost like a revelation. But it did feel unusual and unnatural. It was just another thing you have to think about as you are bowling. As we know, you don't really want anything occupying your mind other than the target. In practice, you can do it and see how it feels. It may take a fair bit of practice to make it natural. But it is well worth trying just to see the difference it makes, even if you don't stick with it. It gives you an idea of what MacGill is talking about when he focused on pulling down hard with that front arm.

Video from side-on can look a little less dynamic. Look at that footage of Warne from side-on. It doesn't look as explosive as it does from behind or front on.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that the slower you bowl it, the more purchase you will get from the surface. So it's not always helpful to correlate what happens off the pitch to what you are doing from the hand. I've been bowling plenty of balls that have been turning away and you could easily think "well, that looks alright". But of course, I've seen the footage of the release and I've been putting too much overspin on the ball. You may be getting good turn but that is probably because you are bowling it about 40mph and quite gentle. That's ok as long as your accuracy is very good. If you land the ball on a good line and length everytime, then you can bowl it at 40mph and get that turn. If you are struggling for consistency of line and length the you either have to focus on improving that or bowling it harder.
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Yeah, my focus over the coming weeks if the weather is kind to us will be the arm factor. I looked at a few videos of bowlers look at the 2nd delivery here - how the action through the crease lacks any dynamism
 
Carrying velocity through down the track after bowling the ball though is a mistake - certainly with fast bowling where the idea is that by killing your momentum, you transfer it to the ball:

"In terms of ground reaction forces, increased ball speed has been strongly correlated with horizontal impulse and inversely related to peak vertical ground reaction force, vertical loading rates and horizontal loading rates. These results contradict some of the current beliefs in cricket but tie in very closely with javelin research and suggest that the fastest bowlers maximise their horizontal breaking impulse during front foot contact as opposed to peak ground reaction forces and loading rates." http://www.lboro.ac.uk/microsites/ssehs/biomechanics/cricket/fast-bowling.html

(impulse = change in momentum)
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Yeah, my focus over the coming weeks if the weather is kind to us will be the arm factor. I looked at a few videos of bowlers look at the 2nd delivery here - how the action through the crease lacks any dynamism
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That's not the most explosive of actions, but his front arm action isn't too bad. It passes down by his right hip which will help with rotation. Your front arm comes down like Warne's does, but it doesn't have the power of Warne's. Most legspinners will pull that front arm more to towards their left hip. I think that might be something for you to try. Pull that front arm into your left hand side rather than down towards your midriff. Your front arm pulls down to your midriff and then sort of flops behind you, which suggests there's very little energy in that arm.
 
boogiespinner said:
Carrying velocity through down the track after bowling the ball though is a mistake - certainly with fast bowling where the idea is that by killing your momentum, you transfer it to the ball:

"In terms of ground reaction forces, increased ball speed has been strongly correlated with horizontal impulse and inversely related to peak vertical ground reaction force, vertical loading rates and horizontal loading rates. These results contradict some of the current beliefs in cricket but tie in very closely with javelin research and suggest that the fastest bowlers maximise their horizontal breaking impulse during front foot contact as opposed to peak ground reaction forces and loading rates." http://www.lboro.ac.uk/microsites/ssehs/biomechanics/cricket/fast-bowling.html

(impulse = change in momentum)
Click to expand...
So in basic terms it's not essential to follow through in a straight line down the wicket, there's no real benefit?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
So in basic terms it's not essential to follow through in a straight line down the wicket, there's no real benefit?
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They're not referring to that, for us spin bowlers they're talking about the pivot.

Let's say you did not pivot at all and just ran through while your arm came round instead, you'll find you do not transfer the energy behind the ball that you do when you pivot (hip coming through etc.). Javelin throwers still follow through straight, if they didn't then none of them would overstep.

Hell, here's the world record holder falling on his face while following through straight.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
So in basic terms it's not essential to follow through in a straight line down the wicket, there's no real benefit?
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The follow through has absolutely no effect on what the ball does. Your approach to the crease and position at the point of release is what determines how the ball is delivered. It's the same for a golfer playing a bunker shot. The follow through of the club has no effect on what the ball does. However, the follow through tells you how smooth and clean the strike was. Less of a follow through indicates more of shallow swing and the ball is likely to have a too low a trajectory. This is all the follow through does for a bowler. It tells you how balanced you are and how accurate you are likely to be. It's all been said before, but if your follow through is falling away to the left, then you are going to struggle to deliver a consistent line of delivery. It's not uncommon to see a legspinner's follow through be a little to the left. It's not a bad thing. If it is sharply to the left, then it is a problem.

Your follow through indicates that you are a bit unbalanced at the point of delivery. Of course, we can pause your bowling at the point of delivery and see you are leaning quite a bit to your left. This is why your momentum takes you to the left. We all know that accuracy is fundamental and a part of that is a repetitive action. A sharp lean to the left will mean that your bowling arm will not follow the same line of delivery everytime. This is the point. It's not about the follow through. It is about getting your momentum/energy directed at the target. If you do that, you will follow through in a straight line down the wicket (obviously, you don't want to head straight down that line because you will be running on the pitch, but your momentum will want to take you there and you will then stop that momentum and get ready for a return catch).

Essentially, you shouldn't give any thought at all to working on your follow through. All your work should go on your approach and your bowling action. Get that right and the follow through will be as it should be.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
So in basic terms it's not essential to follow through in a straight line down the wicket, there's no real benefit?
Click to expand...

What I would say Dave, is work on that front arm. It is so important to your whole action. It's easy to get overly focused on your bowling arm and not bother with that front arm, but it is as important as the bowling arm. What you don't want to do is scour the internet for examples of bowlers who have a similar front arm to you. That is just finding exceptions to try and disprove the rule and ignore issues in your own action. I've done it myself and done it for the front arm too. My front arm pushes out to the legside rather than at the target. I saw that Bishoo did that too and thought "well, it can't be that big of a problem". But that's the wrong way to think about it. Bishoo is a pro legspinner. I'm not. It may not effect him that much but that doesn't mean I should not fix it in my action. Same with you and Chandrasekhar. These people are exceptions to the rule regarding the front arm. Bottom line is, the arm should really pull down hard and at the target. Simple as that. If you are able to produce top, top quality bowling without doing that, fair enough. If you can't, then you must get that front arm sorted.

I've been down to the nets today and focused on keeping that front arm higher for a fraction longer and pulling it down hard towards the taregt. It really is such a crucial aspect of bowling. There's a clip of Warne/Zampa and you can see that Zampa's front arm actually pulls to the offside a bit. Warne's is straight at the target. That front arm of Zampa allows him to rotate to front on really quick and late. At the very last split second, Zampa's chest is pointing to square leg whereas Warne's is facing legslip. Also, the batter can see the back of Zampa's hand (as if he is bowling a googly). The back of Warne's hand is facing towards him. But Zampa is able to get to front on and produce a decent amount of sidespin with a very, very late twist to front on. In the long run, he won't always do that and will lose consistency of accuracy because the action is too rushed. Warne's is, as you might expect, much more rhythmical and smooth. For me, that arm pushing out to the legside gets me too open chested and makes rotation less dynamic. There's no doubt about it. I have to get that front arm pulling down hard at the target and you do too Dave. I bet you find that your follow through is far better once you get that front arm working for you as it should do.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
So in basic terms it's not essential to follow through in a straight line down the wicket, there's no real benefit?
Click to expand...
Just to clarify my previous answer: I think any momentum that is in the follow through should be down the wicket. I just don't think there should be too much of it especially for a spin bowler. I think a spin bowler should be able to bring the back foot around, plant it and then stand up.

If you have momentum taking you to the side, I would think that indicates a flaw.
 
boogiespinner said:
Just to clarify my previous answer: I think any momentum that is in the follow through should be down the wicket. I just don't think there should be too much of it especially for a spin bowler. I think a spin bowler should be able to bring the back foot around, plant it and then stand up.

If you have momentum taking you to the side, I would think that indicates a flaw.
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I am similar to what you just said boogiespinner. I bring the back foot over, it lands with my bowling shoulder facing the batsman, and then I get into a position ready for a return catch.
 
Cleanprophet said:
What I would say Dave, is work on that front arm. It is so important to your whole action. It's easy to get overly focused on your bowling arm and not bother with that front arm, but it is as important as the bowling arm. What you don't want to do is scour the internet for examples of bowlers who have a similar front arm to you. That is just finding exceptions to try and disprove the rule and ignore issues in your own action. I've done it myself and done it for the front arm too. My front arm pushes out to the legside rather than at the target. I saw that Bishoo did that too and thought "well, it can't be that big of a problem". But that's the wrong way to think about it. Bishoo is a pro legspinner. I'm not. It may not effect him that much but that doesn't mean I should not fix it in my action. Same with you and Chandrasekhar. These people are exceptions to the rule regarding the front arm. Bottom line is, the arm should really pull down hard and at the target. Simple as that. If you are able to produce top, top quality bowling without doing that, fair enough. If you can't, then you must get that front arm sorted.

I've been down to the nets today and focused on keeping that front arm higher for a fraction longer and pulling it down hard towards the taregt. It really is such a crucial aspect of bowling. There's a clip of Warne/Zampa and you can see that Zampa's front arm actually pulls to the offside a bit. Warne's is straight at the target. That front arm of Zampa allows him to rotate to front on really quick and late. At the very last split second, Zampa's chest is pointing to square leg whereas Warne's is facing legslip. Also, the batter can see the back of Zampa's hand (as if he is bowling a googly). The back of Warne's hand is facing towards him. But Zampa is able to get to front on and produce a decent amount of sidespin with a very, very late twist to front on. In the long run, he won't always do that and will lose consistency of accuracy because the action is too rushed. Warne's is, as you might expect, much more rhythmical and smooth. For me, that arm pushing out to the legside gets me too open chested and makes rotation less dynamic. There's no doubt about it. I have to get that front arm pulling down hard at the target and you do too Dave. I bet you find that your follow through is far better once you get that front arm working for you as it should do.
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Been thinking about this and working out what I might do, so I'll try and give this a go tomorrow.
 
TomBowler97 said:
I am similar to what you just said boogiespinner. I bring the back foot over, it lands with my bowling shoulder facing the batsman, and then I get into a position ready for a return catch.
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That's what you want. Ready for a return catch. Your momentum should, ideally, leave you with that bowling shoulder facing the target and then you should be able to stop that momentum and get ready for any return catch.
 
I am converted to the idea that spin bowlers should step inwards with the front foot. I was wondering why they all seem to do it, but the following came to me. Suppose you have to walk towards something and hit it as hard as possible with your shoulder. If you imagine that then automatically you will step inwards with the front foot!

I was thinking about this because I'd realised that my best deliveries - the ones that had by far the most zip - were achieved when I managed to relax the arm a bit while the shoulder came through strongly, the arm then whipping through thanks to being stretched. So maybe it's best to drive the shoulder (or armpit) as hard as possible towards the batsman.
 
boogiespinner said:
So maybe it's best to drive the shoulder (or armpit) as hard as possible towards the batsman.
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It's quite funny that you say that because I thought the exact same thing today at the nets. I was thinking about my front arm position (splaying out to the legside) and how that must have my shoulder pointed towards legstump or somewhere around there. I then thought about pushing the front shoulder at the target as well as the front arm - just to ensure that my momentum is pushing forwards and at the target. This is one little 1/2 speed clip of me doing that and pulling down hard with that front arm:



I still don't fully know whether my issues with that hand position at release (putting too much topspin on the ball) is psychological or technical. Without getting that front arm pulling down hard at the target, I will struggle to rotate with energy and may well be short of front on position at the point of release. I only need to be short of it by a small amount to leave me releasing the ball before my arm/hand is in the required position/angle and the ball will be released before I have the chance to drag my fingers over the ball and impart the sidespin I want.

I have found that when I really do pull down hard with that front arm I am able to get a fair amount of sidespin on the ball. Ultimately, I have to start using that front arm properly and see where that leaves me.
 
I'm glad you're working with the same thing as me, have you started to try and do it with a run in? I found some advice that was on here 3 years ago that I blogged about by SLA. His advice was in the gather get your left elbow up so that your left hand is up around your right ear and then your set up to reach out and steer towards your target. I've been visualising it and doing it without a ball in my hand, but I'm gagging now to get out there on a field somewhere and try and get it incorporated into my bowling and practice it and see if it makes any significant difference.

I also figured out that I can do a frame by frame viewing of the videos in windows movie maker and therefore able to see all my action in sequences and yeah it's not pretty. There's a lot of work to do, but with this step at a time approach I do feel in the longer term I'm going to reap the benefits next season.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I'm glad you're working with the same thing as me, have you started to try and do it with a run in?
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About 3 weeks ago or so, when I first tried the longer run in, I also incorporated that front arm change of pulling down hard at the target. That's when I first started to get the legspinners coming out again. For some reason, I got preoccupied with other things and forgot to carry on pulling down hard with that front arm. The last time I did it was a couple of weeks ago when the club captain remarked on the amount of loop I was getting. Also, what I found was that my arm/shoulder was a bit stiff for a day or two (just like when you bowl for the first time in months), which indicated that my whole action was a lot more energetic. Whether that was down to the new run in, the work of the front arm or both, I don't know (I suspect a bit of both). As I say, for some reason I haven't been thinking about really using that front arm in the last couple of weeks.

I suppose you want to know how it felt to use that front arm with a full run in? Actually, it wasn't too bad. It did feel a little more awkward than doing it in a stand start and step start, but not too bad. I just thought about keeping the arm higher for a little longer. Doing that sort of naturally led into me then pulling the arm down hard and at the target. I think it will take a few weeks before you start doing it naturally and it may well be that you always have to remind yourself to pull down hard with that front arm. That's ok. Most bowlers will have one or two things that they repeat to themselves. As we know, Warne would think "think high, spin up". Many, many batters simply say to themselves "watch the ball, watch the ball". I just tend to think "pull hard at offstump".

Once you get it all synced up nicely, you will find it hugely helpful.
 
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