Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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TomBowler97 said:
I was doing some shopping the other day, and being cricket mad I looked down the aisle and it was clear, so (hopefully no one was looking) I went through my action. There it was, I did it 5 or 6 times, an action where it was repeated and rhythmical, I was taking off on the same foot, had a good bound, a low arm (my dad said) and more importantly, I drove through with my hips and that led to an actual follow through, not the Monty stop like someblokecalleddave someblokecalleddave had previously mentioned. So I am thinking about the psychological impact of not having and having a ball. Hopefully I can get down to nets, run through my action without a ball and then out a ball in and it will all fall into plan.

Another area of discussion, some of you may remember when I discussed how my growth spurt massively affected my bowling about 2 years ago, where I grew from 5ft exactly when I was 14/15 to 5ft 8 within 6 months (Within off season, about Sept to April, Sadly an off season where winter training wasn't a thing). Anyways I also discussed about how to I took 50 wickets in a season, to now where I only bowled 70 overs this year in about 15 games, so about 5 a game, and towards the last months of the season I didn't bowl, I opened the batting because of lost faith in my bowling. This all because I had to recreate my bowling action because when I was 5ft, I had to literally bowl as high as possible to get it down there, meaning easy flight and also slow to confuse batsman, now if I bowled high it would go over the batsman's head. Look at this video I came across of my action from 2 years ago, you will see from then to now a significant growth in height.

Sorry for the long post, but is this position alright? I feel the cocked wrist may be wrong? C Cleanprophet @GoldenArm

Cocked Wrist: https://gyazo.com/5c21e4c415263047e2e514b684788132
Ball release: https://gyazo.com/a3526b9eaf2a11caf7beb2440895dc9a

Backing up your point about ball slipping out, this shows the ball being released without the seam being how it should be: https://gyazo.com/d8d878f2becc6263f053eceff1951c83
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50 wickets in one season I don't think our best spinners do that! I was happy with 12 wickets in a season! Five overs a game, that's not that bad either if you're not taking wickets or if you're going for runs. Do you play adult games or age group games? You'll probably find if you take wickets or bowl miserly overs, you'll get more overs. Stick in there, you'll get there. If your games are anything like the ones I play in there's usually at least 7-8 blokes in the team that want to bowl, you just have to try and make it count when you do bowl.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
50 wickets in one season I don't think our best spinners do that! I was happy with 12 wickets in a season! Five overs a game, that's not that bad either if you're not taking wickets or if you're going for runs. Do you play adult games or age group games? You'll probably find if you take wickets or bowl miserly overs, you'll get more overs. Stick in there, you'll get there. If your games are anything like the ones I play in there's usually at least 7-8 blokes in the team that want to bowl, you just have to try and make it count when you do bowl.
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Adult games Dave. I took 15 wickets this season. I am 17 now, and as soon as you have finished u15 cricket, if you are deemed good enough to play adult cricket, if not, you don't play.
 
TomBowler97 said:
You're right, these deliveries are all meant to be leg spinners. Coincidentally, I was discussing with my dad yesterday about I think that I am releasing the ball a tad early, and then I come onto this thread and you have said the same thing.
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TomBowler97 said:
Video should work now! Sorry about that! The weather has been awful recently so hopefully it will brighten up so that I can get down there and practice flicking the wrist and dragging my fingers over the ball simultaneously. I have also just watched the Stuart MacGill video he did, and he said about having a relaxed, floppy wrist, which I don't believe I have!
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I can't really see much of a difference in your action from 2 years ago to now. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because it shows your action is reasonable consistent and repeatable. It can be a bad thing because anything in that action that you need to change will take a bit of work.

Your action looks pretty good to me. The arm is high and you might want it to be a little lower, but it's not a big problem if you keep that left shoulder quite upright. You see some bowlers (like Samuel Badree) who have that high arm and they also pull the left shoulder down a lot. Those bowlers simply cannot bowl a decent legspinner. If you look at bowlers like Abdul Qadir, you see bowlers who have a high arm but can still bowl a good legspinner and that's because they don't drop that left shoulder very much. The key to seeing if a bowler is dropping the left shoulder is to look at the head position. If the head is reasonably upright, then the left shoulder is in a decent position. If the head is falling away a bit, then there is a problem. Again, we can see in your videos that your head is in a good position, so we know that your left shoulder is fine.

Plus, we can also see in the footage that you are dragging your fingers across the ball and producing legspinners. No issue at all in that left shoulder or the height of your arm. Of course, you can try to get a lower arm because you will get more revs on the ball due being able to get more purchase on the ball from your fingers. But, I wouldn't worry about that. If you are releasing the odd ball a bit too early, I would focus on eliminating that before anything else. As I say, just do lots of drills were you work on imparting sidespin and lots of it, ball after ball after ball. Don't just do work off a full length over and over again. Do those drills over a short distance (bowling over a short distance forces you to release it late as you have to do that to land the ball). Get a dozen balls or more and bowl lots of deliveries over a shorter distance to really groove that later release.
 
Does everyone here use a tripod when recording their bowling? Does anyone know any cheap tripod replacements, or how to get a decent view of my bowling without one?
 
AngryRanga said:
Does everyone here use a tripod when recording their bowling? Does anyone know any cheap tripod replacements, or how to get a decent view of my bowling without one?
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Yep I always do, but I'm a photographer so have a 3 pro ones that I can use (Gitzo, Manfrotto or Benbo). Any tripod would do really, if they're a bit wobbly hang a bag underneath with something heavy in it, that'll stabilise it if it's a bit windy. The only other issue then is stopping the ball from hitting the tripod.
 
TonyM said:
Well, if nothing else the inclusion of Rashid in the test side has resulted in more column inches, or whatever the digital equivalent is, the latest offering from the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34543919 including the quote from Graeme Swann "Leg-spin is by far the hardest thing to do in cricket," which I am not sure really helps the recruitment drive, but is at least honest.
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Good article. I was thinking last night about how special Rashid is - the bloke bowls in test matches - not T20 where the pressure is on and wickets come cheap. In that last test he bowled an astonishing amount of overs in comparison with all the other bowlers. The bloke is amazing if he's still got his head in the right place. As for Swanne that's probably the only sensible thing he's ever said in his life. (not a fan).
 
Cleanprophet said:
I can't really see much of a difference in your action from 2 years ago to now. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because it shows your action is reasonable consistent and repeatable. It can be a bad thing because anything in that action that you need to change will take a bit of work.

Your action looks pretty good to me. The arm is high and you might want it to be a little lower, but it's not a big problem if you keep that left shoulder quite upright. You see some bowlers (like Samuel Badree) who have that high arm and they also pull the left shoulder down a lot. Those bowlers simply cannot bowl a decent legspinner. If you look at bowlers like Abdul Qadir, you see bowlers who have a high arm but can still bowl a good legspinner and that's because they don't drop that left shoulder very much. The key to seeing if a bowler is dropping the left shoulder is to look at the head position. If the head is reasonably upright, then the left shoulder is in a decent position. If the head is falling away a bit, then there is a problem. Again, we can see in your videos that your head is in a good position, so we know that your left shoulder is fine.

Plus, we can also see in the footage that you are dragging your fingers across the ball and producing legspinners. No issue at all in that left shoulder or the height of your arm. Of course, you can try to get a lower arm because you will get more revs on the ball due being able to get more purchase on the ball from your fingers. But, I wouldn't worry about that. If you are releasing the odd ball a bit too early, I would focus on eliminating that before anything else. As I say, just do lots of drills were you work on imparting sidespin and lots of it, ball after ball after ball. Don't just do work off a full length over and over again. Do those drills over a short distance (bowling over a short distance forces you to release it late as you have to do that to land the ball). Get a dozen balls or more and bowl lots of deliveries over a shorter distance to really groove that later release.
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I will have to experiment in off season with high arm or low arm, and if high arm is better, I will practice releasing at the same time and a bit later.
 
Cleanprophet said:
I can't really see much of a difference in your action from 2 years ago to now. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because it shows your action is reasonable consistent and repeatable. It can be a bad thing because anything in that action that you need to change will take a bit of work.

Your action looks pretty good to me. The arm is high and you might want it to be a little lower, but it's not a big problem if you keep that left shoulder quite upright. You see some bowlers (like Samuel Badree) who have that high arm and they also pull the left shoulder down a lot. Those bowlers simply cannot bowl a decent legspinner. If you look at bowlers like Abdul Qadir, you see bowlers who have a high arm but can still bowl a good legspinner and that's because they don't drop that left shoulder very much. The key to seeing if a bowler is dropping the left shoulder is to look at the head position. If the head is reasonably upright, then the left shoulder is in a decent position. If the head is falling away a bit, then there is a problem. Again, we can see in your videos that your head is in a good position, so we know that your left shoulder is fine.

Plus, we can also see in the footage that you are dragging your fingers across the ball and producing legspinners. No issue at all in that left shoulder or the height of your arm. Of course, you can try to get a lower arm because you will get more revs on the ball due being able to get more purchase on the ball from your fingers. But, I wouldn't worry about that. If you are releasing the odd ball a bit too early, I would focus on eliminating that before anything else. As I say, just do lots of drills were you work on imparting sidespin and lots of it, ball after ball after ball. Don't just do work off a full length over and over again. Do those drills over a short distance (bowling over a short distance forces you to release it late as you have to do that to land the ball). Get a dozen balls or more and bowl lots of deliveries over a shorter distance to really groove that later release.
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From What I gather, are you saying that there is no problem with producing leg spinners from a high arm, it is just making sure that I release at the correct time and make sure I drag my fingers over the ball? Have I interpreted that correctly?
 
TomBowler97 said:
There was 40 in Adults and 10 in junior matches. Seasons figures were 159-12-708-50

I took 18 on a Saturday, 22 on a Sunday and 10 in my 3/4 juniour matches.

Just had a look on play cricket.
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Blimey - what you worried about then? I'd ignore everything we're saying on here and just get on with it. You sound like a superb bowler! Why are you seeking advice from a bunch of old duffers who are struggling with their bowling and you're going along with figures like that? We should be asking you how you've done it!!!
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Blimey - what you worried about then? I'd ignore everything we're saying on here and just get on with it. You sound like a superb bowler! Why are you seeking advice from a bunch of old duffers who are struggling with their bowling and you're going along with figures like that? We should be asking you how you've done it!!!
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Haha cheers Dave! Thing is that was back when I was 5ft and it was easy to throw the ball up there, because I had to else it wouldn't get to the other end! Since my growth spurt last year I haven't been the same bowler, so I guess I am trying to return to the bowler I once was and also try and cut out the bad ball every over, and just be confident. I want to find a repeatable action that works for me which I think I have found now.
 
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TomBowler97 said:
From What I gather, are you saying that there is no problem with producing leg spinners from a high arm, it is just making sure that I release at the correct time and make sure I drag my fingers over the ball? Have I interpreted that correctly?
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Most wrist spinners will be able to produce a legspinner with decent revs on it from a high arm, unless they have small hands/fingers. But, you need to keep that left shoulder quite upright. The more the left shoulder drops, the harder it is for you to get purchase on the ball because you can't get your fingers on top of the ball. Warne dropped his left shoulder a bit, but he had a lower arm. Abdul Qadir had a high arm but didn't drop his left shoulder.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Most wrist spinners will be able to produce a legspinner with decent revs on it from a high arm, unless they have small hands/fingers. But, you need to keep that left shoulder quite upright. The more the left shoulder drops, the harder it is for you to get purchase on the ball because you can't get your fingers on top of the ball. Warne dropped his left shoulder a bit, but he had a lower arm. Abdul Qadir had a high arm but didn't drop his left shoulder.
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I have quite small hands I think, when I grip the ball, my third finger isn't really bent because it is uncomfortable.
 
Cleanprophet said:
What is your hand span (from the tip of your thumb to the tip of your little finger)?
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Stretched? Hand span is roughly 20.5 cm.
Also, back to the shoulder arm situation. I think something like MacGill would work? He doesn't have a high arm nor a low arm, and his shoulder is upright, and he got huge spin on the ball, more than Warne did.
https://gyazo.com/4329058d5610b8ace89a9bf67b3feba3
 
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TomBowler97 said:
Stretched? Hand span is roughly 20.5 cm.
Also, back to the shoulder arm situation. I think something like MacGill would work? He doesn't have a high arm nor a low arm, and his shoulder is upright, and he got huge spin on the ball, more than Warne did.
https://gyazo.com/4329058d5610b8ace89a9bf67b3feba3
Click to expand...

20.5cm isn't small. That's about average, so you shouldn't have any problems getting your fingers over the ball (mine are about 23 cm).

I would say that MacGill's action is a good one to look at and use as a reference. There's footage of MacGill bowling in Rawalpindi in 1998 and his action there is a very good action to copy. As you say, his arm is fairly high but he doesn't drop that left shoulder very much at all.

The thing to remember is that you have to find the action that works for you. Depending on your build and on what feels comfortable, you might be going down the wrong path completely in trying to bowl in a manner similar to Warnes or you might be getting it all wrong to try and emulate MacGill. In my experience, most bowlers are more likely to get results bowling like MacGill (good pacey run up, no real drop of the left shoulder and don't worry about the high arm). Warne was powerfully built and could generate all the pace/energy he needed in the last step or two. Most bowlers will need to get that pace and energy from their whole run up. Part of Warne's effort in getting energy on the ball was in dropping the left shoulder a bit but it didn't effect him because his arm was lower.

In my experience, it doesn't take much for you to lose the potion where you can drag your fingers across the ball. This is where having a well drilled action is vital. Consistency in left shoulder position and bowling arm position gives you control over what you bowl.
 
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