Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Cleanprophet said:
Might be worth filming your bowling from behind and close up, just to check that release. I used to get lots of sidepspin and, quite often, too much. Then I started to spin it less and less. When I checked the release, I was putting less sidespin on it. I've bowled on all kinds of surfaces and I told myself, when it didn't turn, that it was probably just the surface. In fact, it was my release.

Having that front arm pull towards point will ensure you get nicely chest on, but it will probably also mean less rotation because that front shoulder is already quite open early on in the delivery.

As you say, this is the perfect time to work on it and get it sorted for the next season. I don't think it will be too difficult to get that front arm more towards 1st slip. From my experience, it may only take a few sessions.
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Good shout, next time we film I'll get him to do that. And try and use a slightly newer ball. Might include a few variations just for fun at the end as well. My flipper has been coming out really nicely of late. Couple of them have actually started to get that nasty drift into the batsman and a couple of them go wrong completely drift huge and then turn like a leggie. That ever happen to you?
 
GoldenArm said:
Good shout, next time we film I'll get him to do that. And try and use a slightly newer ball. Might include a few variations just for fun at the end as well. My flipper has been coming out really nicely of late. Couple of them have actually started to get that nasty drift into the batsman and a couple of them go wrong completely drift huge and then turn like a leggie. That ever happen to you?
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I stopped bowling the flipper about a year ago because I wasn't bowling it very well (it was very, very easy to pick as much as anything else). But I was forever producing unintended variation when bowling it. That's why I may go back to bowling it in the future because knowing it is the flipper release didn't mean that it was always going to skid straight on. As you say, some drifted in and, for me, some drifted away too.
 
GoldenArm said:
Good shout, next time we film I'll get him to do that. And try and use a slightly newer ball. Might include a few variations just for fun at the end as well. My flipper has been coming out really nicely of late. Couple of them have actually started to get that nasty drift into the batsman and a couple of them go wrong completely drift huge and then turn like a leggie. That ever happen to you?
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Yep happens to me in certain conditions, I'd have called it 'Swing' rather than drift though - seam up with back spin? Then once it pitches breaks away from the bat.
 
Interesting watching blokes that were once the worlds best bowling in the 'All stars' games in the USA. Wides, short balls and generally very average looking bowling. They soon lose it, it seems and this is despite the fact that a lot of them have been practicing running up the series.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Interesting watching blokes that were once the worlds best bowling in the 'All stars' games in the USA. Wides, short balls and generally very average looking bowling. They soon lose it, it seems and this is despite the fact that a lot of them have been practicing running up the series.
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Most of the spinners still look good enough to be playing. The seamers were struggling. Although, Wasim Akram still looked pretty useful.
 
I thought Shaun pollock still looked like he played every week, albeit at a lower level. Akram hasn't lost his swing either has he! You could see Warne and murali were really shadows of their former selves though, even with a bit of practice. The only spinner who looks like he's kept on working on his game is saqlain, he's the only offie I can think of who's made such an effort to incorporate a flipper variation into his armoury. Did you guys see him bowling tendulkar with this jalebi/teesra/flipper? There was a video floating round of him bowling it years ago in the CPL and it seems like he's kept on working on it.
 
GoldenArm said:
I thought Shaun pollock still looked like he played every week, albeit at a lower level. Akram hasn't lost his swing either has he! You could see Warne and murali were really shadows of their former selves though, even with a bit of practice. The only spinner who looks like he's kept on working on his game is saqlain, he's the only offie I can think of who's made such an effort to incorporate a flipper variation into his armoury. Did you guys see him bowling tendulkar with this jalebi/teesra/flipper? There was a video floating round of him bowling it years ago in the CPL and it seems like he's kept on working on it.
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There were two other spinners who looked very impressive, mainly because they only retired in the last year, Swann and Vettori. I saw the wicket of Tendulkar and they said Saqlain was still working on new deliveries. It almost looked like a googly.

Warne still looked the business to me. He bowled a couple of drag downs, but he was getting drift and spinning it hard. The accuracy isn't what it was of course, but that's simply down to not bowling as much. The ability to bowl that big legspinner is still very much there.
 
C Cleanprophet



there you go, its without question his own version of the flipper. It makes me laugh how many people are befuddled when people bowl something like this. I'm on another forum where people had convinced themselves it was just an off spinner that went straight on etc.. and just couldn't get their head round it. Okay fair enough the commentators/media for years have got things muddled up a lot and hype things up unnecessarily (for instance Ajmals teesra when England toured UAE a few years ago, that was pure smoke and mirrors) but its not sorcery, its just a back spinner for heavens sake! But then i guess we should thank our lucky stars that even in this day and age people are so utterly confused by the leg spinners armoury. Props to the aussie commentator (ian chappell I think) who instantly spots that its a flipper.

Here's the Tendulkar wicket just for good measure:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/939923.html
 
GoldenArm said:
I thought Shaun pollock still looked like he played every week, albeit at a lower level. Akram hasn't lost his swing either has he! You could see Warne and murali were really shadows of their former selves though, even with a bit of practice. The only spinner who looks like he's kept on working on his game is saqlain, he's the only offie I can think of who's made such an effort to incorporate a flipper variation into his armoury. Did you guys see him bowling tendulkar with this jalebi/teesra/flipper? There was a video floating round of him bowling it years ago in the CPL and it seems like he's kept on working on it.
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Yeah I was impressed with his bowling too in the other match. I thought Swann had messed his arm/shoulder up though? Looked okay to me?
 
GoldenArm said:
C Cleanprophet



there you go, its without question his own version of the flipper. It makes me laugh how many people are befuddled when people bowl something like this. I'm on another forum where people had convinced themselves it was just an off spinner that went straight on etc.. and just couldn't get their head round it. Okay fair enough the commentators/media for years have got things muddled up a lot and hype things up unnecessarily (for instance Ajmals teesra when England toured UAE a few years ago, that was pure smoke and mirrors) but its not sorcery, its just a back spinner for heavens sake! But then i guess we should thank our lucky stars that even in this day and age people are so utterly confused by the leg spinners armoury. Props to the aussie commentator (ian chappell I think) who instantly spots that its a flipper.

Here's the Tendulkar wicket just for good measure:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/939923.html
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Yeah, it does look like a flipper release now I think about it. It's more the way it comes out that suggests the flipper because it comes out flat and skids on nicely. It's not easy to pick it up on the footage. Footage from font on would be ideal. I'd have thought it is an easier ball to pick from an off-spinner than a legspinner.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Yeah I was impressed with his bowling too in the other match. I thought Swann had messed his arm/shoulder up though? Looked okay to me?
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It was his elbow, if I remember rightly. It was supposed to be painful every ball he bowled. I suppose time off has helped. Plus also, he was still able to bowl even when it was dodgy. So even if it is still painful, he will be able to bowl 4 overs here and there.
 
I
Cleanprophet said:
It was his elbow, if I remember rightly. It was supposed to be painful every ball he bowled. I suppose time off has helped. Plus also, he was still able to bowl even when it was dodgy. So even if it is still painful, he will be able to bowl 4 overs here and there.
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I think as we saw in the final whitewash tour down under he could still bowl with the bone spurs floating around in there but it was mighty painful bowling that many overs and he'd just lost that extra 10% of venom that he needed to really trouble the top level batsmen. I'd love to have seen him and rashid bowling in tandem I think they'd have really complemented one another.
 
GoldenArm said:
I think as we saw in the final whitewash tour down under he could still bowl with the bone spurs floating around in there but it was mighty painful bowling that many overs and he'd just lost that extra 10% of venom that he needed to really trouble the top level batsmen. I'd love to have seen him and rashid bowling in tandem I think they'd have really complemented one another.
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That's right. I think I remember him saying that he simply wasn't able to bowl at the standard he had previously. Obviously, we could all see that from his performances. Rashid would have really enjoyed having Swann bowling at the other end. Moeen Ali's bowling has gone backwards a little bit and it can't be easy for Rashid to bowl with Moeen Ali bowling at the other end.
 
Incidently, I've been down to the nets today (my first bowl for a week and a half) and I worked something out that really helped with my centre of balance. I was falling away a bit as I jumped into the crease because my momentum was going straight towards the target and not into the line of the stumps. I just couldn't jump into the line of the stumps and then pull towards the target to get the full rotation. What I tried was to imagine that my target was somewhere between leg slip and square leg and jump in on that line (which was also the line of the stumps), then pull my front arm towards 1st slip and rotate into the delivery position. Imagining my target was on the legside was simply to get me jumping into the correct position with my weight/ momentum going over or close to my front foot. This would then ensure that my centre of balance is spot on and not leaning away.

It certainly worked and it felt very comfortable. I don't know why I couldn't just jump into the line of the stumps and why I had to take a line towards leg slip/square leg and run/jump onto that line, but doing that worked for me. I'll keep doing that and hopefully make it habit so that I can just run in and not have to think about running towards that legside line. Either way, that front arm was pulling at the target and the balls were all heading to that target, so that's the main thing.
 
TomBowler97 said:
Wow how embarassing! There you go mate!

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I'll leave it up to C Cleanprophet for a full analysis as he's a lot better at the technical stuff than I am! But I will say that you should never practise without at least a roughly marked 22 yards, makeshift stumps and popping creases and your run up marked out. It's really hard to analyse what you're doing in this video because there's no frame work to fit it into. You bowled from two different distances at nothing in particular. Boycott always says practise in the nets exactly what you're going to do in the middle and its damn good advice. Your action looks as good as it always does but if we're looking to analyse the finer points it needs to come from a more carefully controlled situation. Does that make sense?
 
GoldenArm said:
I'll leave it up to C Cleanprophet for a full analysis as he's a lot better at the technical stuff than I am! But I will say that you should never practise without at least a roughly marked 22 yards, makeshift stumps and popping creases and your run up marked out. It's really hard to analyse what you're doing in this video because there's no frame work to fit it into. You bowled from two different distances at nothing in particular. Boycott always says practise in the nets exactly what you're going to do in the middle and its damn good advice. Your action looks as good as it always does but if we're looking to analyse the finer points it needs to come from a more carefully controlled situation. Does that make sense?
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I understand what you mean, this is really just trying to show later release, as I havent got my full run up in the video! Next time I will try and get something marked out! Until you said, I didnt realise this sort of thing could be bad for me!
 
TomBowler97 said:
I understand what you mean, this is really just trying to show later release, as I havent got my full run up in the video! Next time I will try and get something marked out! Until you said, I didnt realise this sort of thing could be bad for me!
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Yes it's purely from the point that how can you gauge whether any of this is having a positive effect if you can't gauge the results at the other end under proper conditions. I can't tell if you're dragging down, over pitching, spinning the ball well or anything really even if you've grooved in this later release. It's all about results out in the middle! Imagine if you started bowling like this regularly, what would happen to your line and length? It could end up all over the place and you'd have spent all that time working on one thing and undoing other things completely.
 
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