So people say, but no-one has ever produced video footage - when they have, it turned out they were bowling a slider by accident. That's what I think happened to Philpott.
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
So people say, but no-one has ever produced video footage - when they have, it turned out they were bowling a slider by accident. That's what I think happened to Philpott.
Max Andrews
Member
Hi Hemant
I have had a look at your video and I like what I see, however, you are bowling the ball too early. This doesn’t allow you the time, for the forces generated from your good drive in your back leg to transfer into the ball. The reason for this is your bowling circle and non-bowling arm. If you are able to extend your non-bowling arm out towards the target and keep it moving in a circle (see the elbow points to the sky at back foot landing), it will help prevent you from collapsing your arm. When you can keep your bowling shoulder up longer, it will enable you to have you shoulders level and aligned towards the target. This will help you create more torque and give you more time to transfer those forces into the ball, thus you can transfer more energy and revs into the ball.
In my upcoming course on Pitch-Vision, Biomechanics in Bowling, I have loads of drills which you would find useful. One of the drills available on my course preview (click here), is the shoulder med ball throws. Also, any band, extension or drive drills will help you with this.
Hopefully, you found the recommendations above useful. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Cheers
Max.
Could you be so kind as to not spam every single thread with your flagrant self-promotion?
As an aside, you don't even begin your analysis by identifying the match-specific problems that your tutee is having and how and why you are going to help them, which is the first step in any competent coaching intervention. You haven't analysed any match stats, or reviewed any match footage, so how the hell do you know what is working and what isn't? Changing someone's action simply because it doesn't look right to you is completely unprofessional.
As an aside, you don't even begin your analysis by identifying the match-specific problems that your tutee is having and how and why you are going to help them, which is the first step in any competent coaching intervention. You haven't analysed any match stats, or reviewed any match footage, so how the hell do you know what is working and what isn't? Changing someone's action simply because it doesn't look right to you is completely unprofessional.
Spin King23
Member
Has anyone been able to download Shane Warne's bowling masterclass from about a month ago? I missed the live one and I've been trying to access it ever since but I don't seem to be having any lucky with it. Do any of you guys happen to have downloaded it know how to see it?
this is the only video I can find but I'm pretty sure it's an old masterclass he did.
this is the only video I can find but I'm pretty sure it's an old masterclass he did.
Have a look on the sky sports website, they have some of it on there but it's mostly going over the same stuff in the video you linked above. I couldn't find his advice about field placings anywhere though, which was annoying.
It was mainly common sense stuff that most people here would already know. Start off with a defensive field, bowl to try to keep yourself on. Don't worry about wickets, just focus on economy rate. He recommended a 1-3-3-1 with a slip to a RH and 2-3-4 to a LH.
Max Andrews
Member
For those of you out there that love their cricket and their science, here's an article on Pitchvision that I've put together just for you. In this article, I discuss how to exploit ground reaction forces to improve your bowling.
http://www.pitchvision.com/bracing-spin#/
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http://www.pitchvision.com/bracing-spin#/
It really annoys me when non-scientists throw around the term "energy" without qualifying it. What type of energy? Kinetic energy? Potential strain energy? Do you even know the difference? Its poor science and even worse coaching. Trying to blind cricketers with jargon that you yourself don't even appear to understand is just a way of boosting your own ego. As for using the term "force vector" when trying to engage with bowlers, give me a ************** break.
Try explaining it clearly: if you jump into your action with a bit of speed and then pivot hard around your front leg, then your arm will come over quicker. The quicker the arm, the more spin you get (all else being equal).
None of this is rocket science, its stuff that all spin bowling coaches have been teaching for years.
Spin King23
Member
Nice article. It was good to see the science behind what you were saying. What drills could I do to help with this?For those of you out there that love their cricket and their science, here's an article on Pitchvision that I've put together just for you. In this article, I discuss how to exploit ground reaction forces to improve your bowling.
http://www.pitchvision.com/bracing-spin#/
boogiespinner
Active Member
Just had a lovely little net session. Mostly topspin but very happy with the flight and spin rate. But producing the same in matches is another matter. I still feel I need to bowl to an empty net for a little while before I'm producing the good stuff, and even then it's still erratic.
Two matches this weekend, tomorrow I probably won't bowl spin as it's a league thing, but Sunday is a friendly so I might get a few overs to do whatever I want.
I am going to take advice offered on this forum and organise a professional coaching session or two. Can't do any harm
Two matches this weekend, tomorrow I probably won't bowl spin as it's a league thing, but Sunday is a friendly so I might get a few overs to do whatever I want.
I am going to take advice offered on this forum and organise a professional coaching session or two. Can't do any harm
Max Andrews
Member
Sorry, I haven’t responded sooner. These are a few drills which I recommend to help with the movements. I’m happy to have a look at the video of your bowling if you want because it’s impossible to give you individual feedback when I can’t see what you’re doing. However, these are few things I would recommend for trying to train the movements I mentioned in the article.
As far as having more momentum in your run-up, this is a drill that was recommended to me by Shawn Flegler, who you might have seen on the Cricket Victoria coaching videos. He said to run in like a fast bowler but still bowl with your leg spin action. This trains your body to move more explosively and to learn to handle the extra force. You should see this extra momentum translate over into your normal bowling action.
This next drill trains the back leg drive. It is important to take the time to progress this into your game, as rushing it won’t allow you to receive the full benefits.
You want to start in your delivery stride, when starting out with this drill it’s best to have both feet facing the target (it just makes it easier).
To start the drill lift your front leg and drive out with your back leg. You are trying to extend you ankle, knee and hip joints before your front foot lands. This will take a lot of time and patience and requires a lot of repetition.
The final drill helps to progress this new movement into your bowling action.
Begin with your hips open to the target and shoulders close off. You are holding a resistance band at about shoulder height with your bowling hand and your front arm is facing the target with the palm of your hand facing the batter.
Next, push out towards the target with your bowling arm, this will launch the trunk forward. It is important to make sure your force vector, which is the angle from the ankle to knee, still points to your front hip and is NOT TOO VERTICAL.
Keep driving out towards the target and make sure to stabilise and fully extend your front leg, as you finish the action.
I hope this helps, let me know how you get on. I would definitely recommend sending in some footage so we can personalise it more for you, but good luck to you mate.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Not been on here much this season, here's an update... I had a bad start to the season fitness-wise with all my efforts to get outside and practice thwarted by the terrible weather this spring. I rarely get on well in the nets, getting to bowl one ball every 5 or 6 blokes doesn't help me at all and the surface of the sports hall we net in is pretty much useless for bowling on. So first weekend in May, I get to play in a 3rd XI game where 12 blokes turn up. within the first 3 or 4 overs all balls hit my way hard and fast at mid wicket about head height, I parry it upwards and out of sight, but I'm aware it's in the air behind me and in the action of twisting and turning to try and catch as it comes down I manage to twist my knee. The twist is bad enough for me to go off and let the other bloke come on.
I then walk around the ground taking pictures for the next hour or so unaware that another bloke in our team has got to leave. I come back to our game and get beckoned back on again. Having walked around a bit the knee doesn't feel too bad, but running in off the new longer approach to the crease that I was working on back in Nov/Dec isn't an option. As soon as I'm back on I'm thrown the ball and I take two wickets in three overs for about 21 coming off of a Terry Jenner-esque style one or two step walk-in.
Over the following week I rest up as much as possible and by the following weekend the knee is feeling better. Again I play in a 3rd XI game and get two spells of about 5 overs each, again coming on off of 1 or two steps. I don't take wickets, but the bowling is pretty good and I go for about 4 an over and have a handful of balls dropped and beat the bat missing the edge by fractions so many times.
2 weeks post knee injury I start to practice more, but the knee is still sore, so I have to practice a 2 step walk in. In practice this doesn't go bad - similar to the game scenarios - accurate and a lot of spin. About a month in and I try to go back to the 6 step run-in and it's sporadic in its results. I continue to work with the 2 step approach and develop and big turning leg-break that has the attribute of landing on the smooth surface and skidding on straight as a natural variation. Enthused by this, I remember SLA making the observation that I probably don't get drift because my arm is too vertical. In the next session I work with getting the arm lower and lo and behold after 10 years of not being able to get the ball to drift I quickly discover that I can get the ball to drift!!!!
Meanwhile in game scenarios I have a nightmare spell mid June where I bowl 2'-4' over the batsmans head 3 times in one over, 7' wide of the stumps on the off-side and a drag down or two. My confidence is shot to pieces... I'm a wreck, the same thing happens the next week, but I'm taken off after two overs.
On the same Saturdays two hours after the game in the paddock I'm landing the ball on a 2' x 1' mat wherever I put it leg-side or off-side, with massive drift and the ball turning absolutely miles, furthermore the ball is spinning so much it's dropping like a stone out of the sky with mental dip. WTF? It's got to be the Yips. The following week my captain lets me open and my whole team is behind me and it works, I bowl 10 overs and go for 55 and have 5 balls dropped!!!! This week I bowled around the 20th over and bowled a load of dross.
Tonight in the paddock having now fully recovered I made a concerted effort to bowl off the 6 step energetic run-up. It was okay. But then went back to the 2 step Terry Jenner with the round-arm approach... Absolutely amazing - drift, dip and incredible accuracy. I just can't work out why I can't bring this to the game scenario it's mental. What I'm trying to do now is when I practice - is produce the accurate, hard-spinning ball from the outset. I'm beginning to think part of the problem is, if I start poorly in a game, my confidence is smashed straight away and I tighten up and get all tense. I've very clearly observed in the paddock that I bowl 100% better when totally relaxed, but it takes about 4 overs to get to that situation. Those four overs in match - especially the first two if they are indifferent and I get hit for 4's, the idea that I'll be relaxed by the 4th over is out of the window and it's downhill from then on.
At the moment I’m so enamoured with the accuracy, drift, dip and massive spin I’m getting off the 2 step approach I can’t see that I’ll continue to pursue the 6 step run-in. So it seems to me that I should continue to work with this 2 step approach because it just looks like it has so much potential. In practice I can close my eyes at the top of my mark, approach the crease and bowl and still hit the target mat.
So that’s where I am – Terry Jenner/Shane Warne at the paddock, laughing stock in a game – spraying the ball all over the shop.
I then walk around the ground taking pictures for the next hour or so unaware that another bloke in our team has got to leave. I come back to our game and get beckoned back on again. Having walked around a bit the knee doesn't feel too bad, but running in off the new longer approach to the crease that I was working on back in Nov/Dec isn't an option. As soon as I'm back on I'm thrown the ball and I take two wickets in three overs for about 21 coming off of a Terry Jenner-esque style one or two step walk-in.
Over the following week I rest up as much as possible and by the following weekend the knee is feeling better. Again I play in a 3rd XI game and get two spells of about 5 overs each, again coming on off of 1 or two steps. I don't take wickets, but the bowling is pretty good and I go for about 4 an over and have a handful of balls dropped and beat the bat missing the edge by fractions so many times.
2 weeks post knee injury I start to practice more, but the knee is still sore, so I have to practice a 2 step walk in. In practice this doesn't go bad - similar to the game scenarios - accurate and a lot of spin. About a month in and I try to go back to the 6 step run-in and it's sporadic in its results. I continue to work with the 2 step approach and develop and big turning leg-break that has the attribute of landing on the smooth surface and skidding on straight as a natural variation. Enthused by this, I remember SLA making the observation that I probably don't get drift because my arm is too vertical. In the next session I work with getting the arm lower and lo and behold after 10 years of not being able to get the ball to drift I quickly discover that I can get the ball to drift!!!!
Meanwhile in game scenarios I have a nightmare spell mid June where I bowl 2'-4' over the batsmans head 3 times in one over, 7' wide of the stumps on the off-side and a drag down or two. My confidence is shot to pieces... I'm a wreck, the same thing happens the next week, but I'm taken off after two overs.
On the same Saturdays two hours after the game in the paddock I'm landing the ball on a 2' x 1' mat wherever I put it leg-side or off-side, with massive drift and the ball turning absolutely miles, furthermore the ball is spinning so much it's dropping like a stone out of the sky with mental dip. WTF? It's got to be the Yips. The following week my captain lets me open and my whole team is behind me and it works, I bowl 10 overs and go for 55 and have 5 balls dropped!!!! This week I bowled around the 20th over and bowled a load of dross.
Tonight in the paddock having now fully recovered I made a concerted effort to bowl off the 6 step energetic run-up. It was okay. But then went back to the 2 step Terry Jenner with the round-arm approach... Absolutely amazing - drift, dip and incredible accuracy. I just can't work out why I can't bring this to the game scenario it's mental. What I'm trying to do now is when I practice - is produce the accurate, hard-spinning ball from the outset. I'm beginning to think part of the problem is, if I start poorly in a game, my confidence is smashed straight away and I tighten up and get all tense. I've very clearly observed in the paddock that I bowl 100% better when totally relaxed, but it takes about 4 overs to get to that situation. Those four overs in match - especially the first two if they are indifferent and I get hit for 4's, the idea that I'll be relaxed by the 4th over is out of the window and it's downhill from then on.
At the moment I’m so enamoured with the accuracy, drift, dip and massive spin I’m getting off the 2 step approach I can’t see that I’ll continue to pursue the 6 step run-in. So it seems to me that I should continue to work with this 2 step approach because it just looks like it has so much potential. In practice I can close my eyes at the top of my mark, approach the crease and bowl and still hit the target mat.
So that’s where I am – Terry Jenner/Shane Warne at the paddock, laughing stock in a game – spraying the ball all over the shop.
boogiespinner
Active Member
Totally approve!
I might even start bowling from one pace in matches.
I bowled a couple of overs in a friendly today. It went okay, but I know I can do much better. Alas we had very few runs to play with so there weren't many overs to go around.
Like you Dave I can be a different beast in the nets. But it takes me 50 deliveries to warm up and even then I can still spray it around. I bowled two wide full tosses today one of which was hit for four. But I produced one rather decent ball which beat a forward defense - I'm not sure that's ever happened before. I got chatting to the batsman after the game and he was really complimentary about it, this is the encouragement I need
If it takes 4 overs to warm up, why don't you bowl 4 overs before the match starts?
Cleanprophet
Active Member
I'd say, stick with the 2 step approach. At the end of the day, the aim is to beat the batsman. If you can do that better off a 2 step approach than a 6 step run in, then stick with the shorter approach. The tendency when coming in with a quicker approach is to not spin the ball up. You are much more likely to bowl the ball into the pitch, land short or even drag it down. Obviously, you will also lose drift and turn when that happens. The key is to try to still spin the ball up with the faster approach. Not easy.
Agreed - its the results that matter, not the aesthetics. No-one looks back at the stats at the end of the year and say "well, he got 20 wickets @ 12.5, but he didn't have a very good run-up". The point of bowling is to try to help your team win the game, not to look good. Work with what you've got.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah that may help, but I usually get to bowl around about 20-25 overs in, so a fair bit of time has elapsed, but definitely worth a try. Tonight practicing - same thing it took about 24 balls of indifferent to total rubbish before it came together, so your advice is worth following up I guess.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Cheers for the feedback everyone, I'll definitely stick to the 2 step approach and just try and get it working a lot sooner.
boogiespinner
Active Member
That is a good suggestion SLA. In baseball pitchers always warm up in the 'bullpen'.
Coaching session tomorrow, I am looking forward to it
Coaching session tomorrow, I am looking forward to it
boogiespinner
Active Member
Well coaching session was interesting. I am being discouraged from bowling like Clarrie Grimmett and working on the Terry Jenner blueprint.
Have plenty to work on! Off to the nets now
Have plenty to work on! Off to the nets now