Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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boogiespinner said:
Well coaching session was interesting. I am being discouraged from bowling like Clarrie Grimmett and working on the Terry Jenner blueprint.

Have plenty to work on! Off to the nets now :)
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Interesting, who was the coach and what was his rationale for the change?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Is that an old Terry Jenner or a young Terry Jenner?
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edited... oh - not sure about the run-up yet!

SLA said:
Interesting, who was the coach and what was his rationale for the change?
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It was Scott Moody. I do feel natural bowling like Clarrie, but it's not working in that it's just too erratic. And I well demonstrated that when invited to bowl a few overs. So I don't have any objections to trying something more orthodox. It was helpful to have a pro coach observing what I was doing. He spotted that I was winding up by taking the ball behind my arse, he's recommended bringing the ball out towards mid-on, and coming through about 1 o'clock while the head and body stays on the vertical plane, pivoting a full 180 degrees. I have been bowling with my arm at around 2 o'clock and not really sure what I've been doing with my feet. I'll give it a try. I've been given a very simple walk-in runup for the match on Sunday.
 
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boogiespinner said:
He spotted that I was winding up by taking the ball behind my arse, he's recommended bringing the ball out towards mid-on, and coming through about 1 o'clock
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That's something I was doing as well. I think it came from working on the googly because it is much easier to bowl the googly with that sort of arm action. With the arm swinging behind you like that, it will naturally move up on a line that is angled towards the stumps rather than on a straight plane. With the legspinner, you are flicking your wrist to off, so if you arm is moving to leg then that wrist action becomes very tough to achieve. What usually happens is your wrist flicks open early (looking like a topspinner or even a googly) and the ball slips out, ending in a full toss with very little revs on it.

I worked on exatcly what you were told to do, moving the arm towards mid-on. It did work but I found that the arm naturally swung behind me when I didn't focus on its movement. In truth, there is probably an underlying reason why the arm is swinging behind you and it is usually down to balance. For me, I think my balance was slightly off-centre (slightly towards the off-side) and so the arm naturally swung to where the centre of balance was. Getting over that front foot a bit more helped my centre of balance be where it needed to be. But, my arm still angles into the stumps a little bit. If you look at bowlers like Ish Sodhi, his arm actually angles away from the stumps a little bit (mainly because his arm does move to mid-on but ends up very vertical at the point of release). That really does help the legspin wrist action but, really, you wouldn't want such a vertical arm.
 
It’s long overdue but here is a link to my course ‘Biomechanics in Bowling’. http://payhip.com/b/3JNy. This course will look at the biomechanical principals involved in bowling and how to implement them to improve performance. From this guide, drills have been assigned to enhance technique. There is both an interactive eBook file and a PDF document for you guys when you purchase the course. And if you’re not sure if it’s for you there is a sample of the course for you to have a look at.
 
Cleanprophet said:
That's something I was doing as well. I think it came from working on the googly because it is much easier to bowl the googly with that sort of arm action. With the arm swinging behind you like that, it will naturally move up on a line that is angled towards the stumps rather than on a straight plane. With the legspinner, you are flicking your wrist to off, so if you arm is moving to leg then that wrist action becomes very tough to achieve. What usually happens is your wrist flicks open early (looking like a topspinner or even a googly) and the ball slips out, ending in a full toss with very little revs on it.

I worked on exatcly what you were told to do, moving the arm towards mid-on. It did work but I found that the arm naturally swung behind me when I didn't focus on its movement. In truth, there is probably an underlying reason why the arm is swinging behind you and it is usually down to balance. For me, I think my balance was slightly off-centre (slightly towards the off-side) and so the arm naturally swung to where the centre of balance was. Getting over that front foot a bit more helped my centre of balance be where it needed to be. But, my arm still angles into the stumps a little bit. If you look at bowlers like Ish Sodhi, his arm actually angles away from the stumps a little bit (mainly because his arm does move to mid-on but ends up very vertical at the point of release). That really does help the legspin wrist action but, really, you wouldn't want such a vertical arm.
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As part of practicing allsorts, I practised bowling flying saucers totally roundarm. It's an interesting thing to try and it's easy to pivot naturally doing it. But obviously you are bringing the ball way behind you doing that and maybe that's how I got the habit. It does help generate pace - I can't so easily find the same zip without it, so that's partly why too.

I think I have a cure, my idea is to practice following through with the bowling around to the RHS of the body rather than the left. I suspect that is not compatible with excessively roundarm bowling, although I'm not totally sure. It is much more natural to make conscious a follow-through than a precursor, so I hope it works.

Another thing Scott Moody exhorted is not landing on the heel of the front foot but the toe so as to keep the weight forward which I think you are echoing. I'll work on it.

Annoyed that I didn't get a bowl in a friendly match today. We were playing a team which had many youngsters in it, we put up 200 off the 35, at the halfway stage they were something like 50 odd for 4. Skipper apologies to me after the game, saying he wanted to bowl me but it was a bit 'precarious'. We finished at 8.30pm because we had nothing but fastmen bowling off huge runups. I was just itching to get home by the end of it. On the journey home one of the quicks says he didn't even want to bowl seven overs because he has a dodgy shoulder! Earlier in batting I was called for a suicidal single after I had smacked one straight to mid-off. Run Out 4. I've had something like five innings this season, two scores in the thirties and two runouts :-(
 
boogiespinner said:
As part of practicing allsorts, I practised bowling flying saucers totally roundarm. It's an interesting thing to try and it's easy to pivot naturally doing it. But obviously you are bringing the ball way behind you doing that and maybe that's how I got the habit. It does help generate pace - I can't so easily find the same zip without it, so that's partly why too.

I think I have a cure, my idea is to practice following through with the bowling around to the RHS of the body rather than the left. I suspect that is not compatible with excessively roundarm bowling, although I'm not totally sure. It is much more natural to make conscious a follow-through than a precursor, so I hope it works.

Another thing Scott Moody exhorted is not landing on the heel of the front foot but the toe so as to keep the weight forward which I think you are echoing. I'll work on it.

Annoyed that I didn't get a bowl in a friendly match today. We were playing a team which had many youngsters in it, we put up 200 off the 35, at the halfway stage they were something like 50 odd for 4. Skipper apologies to me after the game, saying he wanted to bowl me but it was a bit 'precarious'. We finished at 8.30pm because we had nothing but fastmen bowling off huge runups. I was just itching to get home by the end of it. On the journey home one of the quicks says he didn't even want to bowl seven overs because he has a dodgy shoulder! Earlier in batting I was called for a suicidal single after I had smacked one straight to mid-off. Run Out 4. I've had something like five innings this season, two scores in the thirties and two runouts :-(
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I mix in more round-arm with high arm bowling during the course of an over, not only does it create a different angle (especially when combined with going wider on the crease), but the ball comes out subtly quicker and skids on more due to the lower trajectory and reduced topspin element.

Oh PS; that stuff about landing on the toe is complete bullshit. No professional bowler does this. You can't brace against your front leg if you're tiptoeing through the crease. Slam your whole foot down and pivot around it like you mean it.
 
boogiespinner said:
As part of practicing allsorts, I practised bowling flying saucers totally roundarm. It's an interesting thing to try and it's easy to pivot naturally doing it. But obviously you are bringing the ball way behind you doing that and maybe that's how I got the habit. It does help generate pace - I can't so easily find the same zip without it, so that's partly why too.

I think I have a cure, my idea is to practice following through with the bowling around to the RHS of the body rather than the left. I suspect that is not compatible with excessively roundarm bowling, although I'm not totally sure. It is much more natural to make conscious a follow-through than a precursor, so I hope it works.

Another thing Scott Moody exhorted is not landing on the heel of the front foot but the toe so as to keep the weight forward which I think you are echoing. I'll work on it.
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Landing on the heel of the front foot is also something I had a problem with. As you say, it all ties in with the centre of balance not being in the right place. Most pro legspinners will usually land on the ball of their right foot, without the heel having any weight on it, and then land on the ball of their left foot, again, with all the weight being on the ball of that left foot.

One thing I did to help with the downward swinging direction of the bowling arm was to have the arm closer to my torso as I brought the arm down. Previously, my arm would be quite a way outside my body. As you say, you generate more energy in the arm if it is closer to the body so it is natural for the arm to then swing back towards the body if it is quite wide - even more so if the centre of balance is a bit off.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Landing on the heel of the front foot is also something I had a problem with. As you say, it all ties in with the centre of balance not being in the right place. Most pro legspinners will usually land on the ball of their right foot, without the heel having any weight on it, and then land on the ball of their left foot, again, with all the weight being on the ball of that left foot.

One thing I did to help with the downward swinging direction of the bowling arm was to have the arm closer to my torso as I brought the arm down. Previously, my arm would be quite a way outside my body. As you say, you generate more energy in the arm if it is closer to the body so it is natural for the arm to then swing back towards the body if it is quite wide - even more so if the centre of balance is a bit off.
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Quiet on here by the looks of it. I've been busy getting my website sorted. It's a lot more difficult than blogging, but I'm slowly getting there. Just posted an account of a game today http://www.wristspinbowling.com/blo...4th-xi-v-orsett-thurrock-6th-xi-27th-aug-2016
Have a look.
 
How's everyone gone this season? I had a pretty crap season overall...
  • Wasn't fit enough at the start of the season.
  • Injured my knee in the 1st game.
  • Injury then meant I had to scrap working with the faster more dynamic run-up.
  • First bit of good news - SLA mentioned in a post here that it was unlikely that I'd get drift bowling with such a vertical arm. Started to lower my arm during the injury re-hab and lo and behold... Drift.
  • Practice because of the injury was restricted to a Jenner-esque walk-in, but as I recovered, the drift, dip and accuracy got better.
  • Got the Yips. Weird as hell, in practice I was bowling better than I ever have, in games I couldn't land the ball.
  • Captain helped with the Yips - let me bowl as the opener, whole team got behind me and it worked.
  • The lower arm is working a treat - accuracy is exceptionally good in practice, ball is spinning like mad, dipping, drifting and bouncing.
  • Last game bowled really well, just two games left (Friendlies) and then how do I ensure that all this good work is able to come together next spring?
  • Drawing inspiration these days from Majid Huq the worlds slowest bowler, but Scotland's highest wicket taker in ODI's.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
How's everyone gone this season? I had a pretty crap season overall...
  • Wasn't fit enough at the start of the season.
  • Injured my knee in the 1st game.
  • Injury then meant I had to scrap working with the faster more dynamic run-up.
  • First bit of good news - SLA mentioned in a post here that it was unlikely that I'd get drift bowling with such a vertical arm. Started to lower my arm during the injury re-hab and lo and behold... Drift.
  • Practice because of the injury was restricted to a Jenner-esque walk-in, but as I recovered, the drift, dip and accuracy got better.
  • Got the Yips. Weird as hell, in practice I was bowling better than I ever have, in games I couldn't land the ball.
  • Captain helped with the Yips - let me bowl as the opener, whole team got behind me and it worked.
  • The lower arm is working a treat - accuracy is exceptionally good in practice, ball is spinning like mad, dipping, drifting and bouncing.
  • Last game bowled really well, just two games left (Friendlies) and then how do I ensure that all this good work is able to come together next spring?
  • Drawing inspiration these days from Majid Huq the worlds slowest bowler, but Scotland's highest wicket taker in ODI's.
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I've had the usual cycle. Struggle for a little bit of rhythm early on and feel very stiff in the early season cold, but get into my stride mid-season as the weather gets better and the pitches start to harden up. I feel in absolutely top form right now, I bowled 7 overs, 3 wickets for 4 runs on Saturday (2 of which came off the edge), predictably just as there is one game left of the season. I wish I lived in a county with a proper full length cricket season to the end of September.

Over all formats, a mixture of 20 over and 40 over games, I've bowled about 100 overs, and taken 30-40 wickets at my usual average of around 15 and economy rate of around 4 an over. I've taken 1 7-fer, 3 4-fers, and a hattrick.

Batting has been a disaster, barely 700 runs, averaging mid 40s, only 3 fifties and no tons. Constantly scoring 20s and 30s and then getting out in odd ways (including receiving some shocking umpiring decisions).
 
SLA said:
I've had the usual cycle. Struggle for a little bit of rhythm early on and feel very stiff in the early season cold, but get into my stride mid-season as the weather gets better and the pitches start to harden up. I feel in absolutely top form right now, I bowled 7 overs, 3 wickets for 4 runs on Saturday (2 of which came off the edge), predictably just as there is one game left of the season. I wish I lived in a county with a proper full length cricket season to the end of September.

Over all formats, a mixture of 20 over and 40 over games, I've bowled about 100 overs, and taken 30-40 wickets at my usual average of around 15 and economy rate of around 4 an over. I've taken 1 7-fer, 3 4-fers, and a hattrick.

Batting has been a disaster, barely 700 runs, averaging mid 40s, only 3 fifties and no tons. Constantly scoring 20s and 30s and then getting out in odd ways (including receiving some shocking umpiring decisions).
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Blimey - only in my dreams.
 
I've struggled this season really, but feel I am that much closer to cracking things, and if I can do that I'll be something to reckon with. It's still going wayward but I am really ripping it now. Had a net recently where I stopped practising solo off 18 yards and crashed the group in the next lane. Half the balls went into the roof. But the ones which pitched had the bat in all kinds of trouble. It's encouraging to see a batsman actually flinching because the ball has dropped and kicked. The googly is coming back.

Struggling with accuracy, not bowling totally roundarm, and getting the wider seam angles.

practice practice practice.
 
A weird thing happens to me regularly in the nets. I'm trying to bowl legbreaks with a wide seam angle, i.e. in the region 45-90 degrees.

This is practice from a short distance, so I'm giving myself all the help I need. I'm giving every ball a huge rip. What happens is this

1) sometimes it turns big :)
2) sometimes it turns smaller, generally kicks as if with topspin
3) sometimes it skids through and possibly even straightens?

I don't understand (3). I am definitely not bowling a googly here, it is behaving like a flipper might. It's weird because I really have little idea what is happening.

Just wondering if anyone had an idea about this. It's an artificial net, not a huge turning one.
 
boogiespinner said:
A weird thing happens to me regularly in the nets. I'm trying to bowl legbreaks with a wide seam angle, i.e. in the region 45-90 degrees.

This is practice from a short distance, so I'm giving myself all the help I need. I'm giving every ball a huge rip. What happens is this

1) sometimes it turns big :)
2) sometimes it turns smaller, generally kicks as if with topspin
3) sometimes it skids through and possibly even straightens?

I don't understand (3). I am definitely not bowling a googly here, it is behaving like a flipper might. It's weird because I really have little idea what is happening.

Just wondering if anyone had an idea about this. It's an artificial net, not a huge turning one.
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Sometimes the ball just doesn't grip, regardless of the surface or how hard you spin in. Its called "natural variation" and every spinner should love it and welcome it, because it makes you impossible to read. Watch Adam Hollioake get bowled by Shane Warne. Big ripping leggie that went straight on into middle stump. Warne knew nothing about it, it was just a regular leggie that didn't turn. Hollioake looked like a total dumbass.

The straightening thing will probably be the small amount of drift you are getting just before the ball pitches. The ball then goes on at that angle.


As a batsmen, 2 and 3 would be the hardest balls to face. Big spinning deliveries tend to provide too much width and get pounded mercilessly to the fence over and over again. You NEVER want to spin the ball more than 12 inches or so, you're playing right into the batsman's hands.
 
SLA said:
The straightening thing will probably be the small amount of drift you are getting just before the ball pitches. The ball then goes on at that angle.
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Thanks SLA I think this explains it.

I think what I might be doing - pretty sure actually - is bowling flying saucers. i.e. not landing on the seam.

I used to do those all the time when I first started posting here, in fact I could barely bowl anything else. They'd just go straight on.

But now I am spinning the ball that much greater, so particularly with that seam angle it's drifting.
 
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Haven't been on this forum in a while but now that the new season has just started, thought I might get into posting here a bit more.

I'm in U15s now, which is good, because the good bowlers can get more overs (up to 8 in a 35 over game) compared to U13s which made everyone have a go, only 4 overs each max. My 8 overs were on the other end of the right handed wrist spinner, which was fun because it was us who was drying up the run scoring, and when the seamers came back in, runs and wickets came. I didn't get any wickets but I think I bowled about 5 maidens due to the massive turn I was getting and one ball went through the gate and just bounced over the stumps. Another grabbed an edge, however, the keeper dropped it, which is to be expected at this level. I am a left handed wrist spinner and I was bowling over the wicket to right handed batsmen, so I was able to mix up topspinners and leg-breaks very effectively. Occasionally I would dart one in, effectively a fast ball which swings away. The other leggie did get a wicket, bowled, pitching on or outside leg stump and turning to hit off. We won the match overall I think, though it was very close. We had a comfortable lead, but it's amazing what some sloppy fielding can do.

Edit: also don't know if any of you remember but I shared a video about a year ago of me bowling at the nets, well, my bowling has improved massively since then. I'll have to make another when I get the chance.
 
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Billywhizz said:
Dave! I'm liking the website. The the new bit about pitch maps in the Accuracy Drills section is a great idea. I'll be trying it next session. Keep up the great work.
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Cheers Billywhizz, glad to hear you liked the post, keep checking it out and if you've got any ideas for it let me know and I might post them up? Share it with other as well. Actually can you answer this question. If you search 'Wrist spin bowling' in Google in Australia how many pages do you have to search for that post? Here in the UK it's on the 6th page, is it the same wherever you are in the world?
 
eiglow_ said:
Edit: also don't know if any of you remember but I shared a video about a year ago of me bowling at the nets, well, my bowling has improved massively since then. I'll have to make another when I get the chance.
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Totally remember! You had funky backing music and were spinning from the middle finger? Looking forward to seeing the progress!
 
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