Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[SLA]

Circa one month ago, when I wasn't bowling like a hack, my bowling off a standing start was extremely poor. I wouldn't get enough power behind the ball, but my full run up provided the energy and follow through required to put the ball in a good area.

Now situation has reversed. I'm bowling extremely well off a standing start, getting loop and putting the ball in good areas. However, when I come off my full run, which hasn't been altered consciously, my bowling action feels foreign and the ball is more likely to hit my foot than a good length.

This is obviously problematic because in a game I bowl from my run up, and my good bowling from the runup is still better than my good bowling from a standing start, just because there is more energy and momentum to work with.

Has anyone got any idea what this could be caused by, or any remedial practice I could do to repair the problem?

I'm curious to know why if you were bowling ok off a full run, you continued to practice off a standing start?

Standing starts are used by coaches to teach young bowlers (typically age 9-10) who are learning to bowl for the first time and have not yet learnt the basic movements of the bowling action, but they are of limited use beyond that - in fact there is evidence to suggest that the different rhythm they impose on your bowling action can cause you to lose your full bowling action - which is what sounds like it has happened.

Standing start should NEVER be used over a full 22 yards, as this puts far too much pressure on your bowling shoulder. At most, you should be using it to practice the release of the ball out of you fingers over max 15 yards.

I would recommend you immediately drop the standing start bowling, and focus on bowling from the same consistent, rhythmical run-up that you intend to use in games.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Really, the ideal scenario is having only one approach to the crease. Having the option of a shorter run up or a stand start can create more of a problem with the longer run up.

If the longer run up has worked well in the past, then it should really be a case of working out why it is not working as well now rather than switching to a shorter run up or stand start.

I used a short run up (about 3 large strides) for a long time. I tried a longer run up and that worked sometimes and other times not so much. In the end, I switched back to the short run, but I now focus on really pushing through the crease and at that target. So, the same short run up but much, much more energy and fizz on the ball.

The key thing is to remember that the run up is fundamentally about getting you to the crease with rhythm and balance rather than providing energy. The rotation and the energy in that rotation (what Warne would call the "explosion") is where most of the energy in the ball comes from.

 

[AngryRanga]

I'm curious to know why if you were bowling ok off a full run, you continued to practice off a standing start?

I normally bowl an over off a standing start to warm up before I come off my full run, when I'm practicising.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[SLA]

I normally bowl an over off a standing start to warm up before I come off my full run, when I'm practicising.

Thanks for the advice.

Bear in mind that it is harder to bowl from a standing start than a full run up, because you are having to simultaneously suddenly generate energy in both your legs and your arms, whereas when you are bowling with a run up, the kinetic energy in your legs is already there, and you just need to add your upper body action.

So if you use it as a warmup, I would do it quite gently over 15 yards, rather than 22, otherwise you will find that when you switch to the full run up, exerting the same energy with your upper body will result in the ball going 6 foot over the batsman's head.

The rhythm is also different between standing start and run up: and if your rhythm gets out of sync, your release point will get out of sync, and you will end up endangering either nearby planes or your own toes.

 

[SLA]

Really, the ideal scenario is having only one approach to the crease. Having the option of a shorter run up or a stand start can create more of a problem with the longer run up.

Yeah - I've used the exact same 6 step run-up with a hop in the middle since I was 13 years old. I can stand at the top of my mark, close my eyes, run up and bowl, and the ball will land roughly in the right spot purely from 20 years of muscle memory.

The golden rule of bowling is that the more you mess around with the basics, the less consistent you will be. Consistency is an achievable objective, perfection is not.

 

[Isaac Currie]

what is the best approach to hitting big off spin bowlers ??

 

[SLA]

what is the best approach to hitting big off spin bowlers ??

Rock back and pull anything short, slog sweep off a length, and get down the track and drive through and underneath anything full. Look to hit the middle of the bat with power, and hit upwards on about a 30 degree trajectory and carry the ball ~ 10 yards over the boundary.

 

[Robert Walker]

At the moment I seem to be bowling a lot of bowls with more over spin than wanted, I seem to be cocking my wrists too much. Any help?

 

[TomBowler97]

At the moment I seem to be bowling a lot of bowls with more over spin than wanted, I seem to be cocking my wrists too much. Any help?

Hi Robert, something I like to do is practice spinning the ball back to myself, this is so you can copy that feeling when you bowl the ball and then you will have complete side spin. Also you can hold both hands out so you can see both palms, have the ball in your bowling hand, and then flick the ball from the bowling hand to the other hand, you should now see the back of your bowling hand. One last thing, the angle of the wrist for a leg spinner is so you can see the back of your hand, as Warnie says.

Hope this helped and all the best.

 

[boogiespinner]

At the moment I seem to be bowling a lot of bowls with more over spin than wanted, I seem to be cocking my wrists too much. Any help?

Man when you find the solution to this one let me know

I am still very much working on this. One thing I like doing is practising vertical spinning tosses, i.e. not hand to hand but straight up and down. The idea is to get the ball spinning about a vertical axis. If you can translate the same to a horizontally delivered ball, that would then be a pure leg break.

Peter Philpott advises trying to deliver a 'backspun' legbreak, i.e. in practice I think it is totally impossible to produce the 'backspinner' but the result may well be a purer legbreak and Philpott maintains that practicing this hypothetical delivery helps as a technical exercise. It is certainly worth trying. I think it may reveal a desirable finishing position for the wrist and way that the ball dances from the fingertips.

Many of the great legspin bowlers seem to have stock balls which are heavily overspun, so you are in good company.

If I can produce heavily spinning 30 degree legbreaks accurately and consistently, I think I'll be quite happy. I've come to realise that the heavy spin is the most important due to the flight and kick off the pitch and getting a wide seam angle would be lovely but not so important.

Keep practising!

 

[boogiespinner]

Hi Robert, something I like to do is practice spinning the ball back to myself, this is so you can copy that feeling when you bowl the ball and then you will have complete side spin.

I don't think it translates like that, if I am interpreting correctly, this would be a ball delivered with the axis of spin perpendicular, not parallel, to the direction of travel.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Adam Zampa's stock delivery is a flat topspinner (wrongly refered to as a flipper by the likes of Ravi Shastri on a regular basis). Plenty of T20 legspin involves those overspin deliveries.

That said, the Afghanistani legspinner Rashid Khan has a very interesting action. His legspinner involves his hand dragging over and under the ball so the back of his hand is facing the batter at the point of release. It makes his googly virtually impossible to pick.

In my experience, bowling with lots of overspin when trying to bowl with sidespin comes down to upper body rotation. If you are not rotated enough at the point of release, you will struggle to put sidespin on the ball.

 

[TomBowler97]

I don't think it translates like that, if I am interpreting correctly, this would be a ball delivered with the axis of spin perpendicular, not parallel, to the direction of travel.

Works for me, I got that from Dave's old video a while ago.

 

[boogiespinner]

Works for me, I got that from Dave's old video a while ago.

I honestly believe this is not practising a legbreak but a topspinner.

I think I understand the idea, it's that if you are at the bowling crease facing square towards the midwicket boundary, then spinning the ball towards your chest is 'leg spin' were it to pitch that way down the track.

But the issue is that everything changes once you are propelling the ball forwards. I don't think one can realistically think of this spinning action combined with a general bowling delivery to produce a square legbreak.

Please forgive my scepticism but if you are really achieving wide seam angles I think you have achieved some further insight other than that which would be readily derived from this exercise.

 

[boogiespinner]

Perhaps I can elaborate:

During the last few hundredths of a second of a delivery, there are large forces / acceleration being applied to the cricket ball to accelerate it around the circle created the bowling arm.

Now when the ball is gripped in a spinning couple, it's stable. But during the last period of a spinning action, the ball is not held in a spinning couple, but governed by one finger / point of contact. It is not stable.

This isn't much of an issue to control if you are spinning the ball hand-to-hand or back towards your chest. However in a real delivery, the ball has to be vigorously brought and accelerated around the circle created by the bowling arm.

if you were try to exactly add the simple 'spin it back towards your chest' spinning action, as I understand it anyway, as soon as the index finger leaves the ball, the ball is going to fly out of the hand somewhere.

Or at least, many hand actions which would spin a ball back towards the chest will not straightforwardly translate to an actual legspin release with a wide seam angle.

 

[The Edge Of Willow]

I honestly believe this is not practising a legbreak but a topspinner.

I think I understand the idea, it's that if you are at the bowling crease facing square towards the midwicket boundary, then spinning the ball towards your chest is 'leg spin' were it to pitch that way down the track.

But the issue is that everything changes once you are propelling the ball forwards. I don't think one can realistically think of this spinning action combined with a general bowling delivery to produce a square legbreak.

Please forgive my scepticism but if you are really achieving wide seam angles I think you have achieved some further insight other than that which would be readily derived from this exercise.

The forward momentum is actually partly what makes it work. Since the angles and forces involved make it more or less impossible to spin the ball right back towards yourself, you end up just pushing out and up around the ball. Whether you get a square leg-break depends your particular action, on just how far around you can flick your "wrist back towards your face," but getting a square leg break is often not the point of the exercise.

For a lot of people, those struggling with overspinning everything, the point is just to get more sidespin, so they can get some break off the wicket when they want it. "Back towards yourself" is sort of an exaggeration used to break the habit of just rolling the fingers down and over the top of the ball.

 

[boogiespinner]

The forward momentum is actually partly what makes it work. Since the angles and forces involved make it more or less impossible to spin the ball right back towards yourself, you end up just pushing out and up around the ball. Whether you get a square leg-break depends your particular action, on just how far around you can flick your "wrist back towards your face," but getting a square leg break is often not the point of the exercise.

For a lot of people, those struggling with overspinning everything, the point is just to get more sidespin, so they can get some break off the wicket when they want it. "Back towards yourself" is sort of an exaggeration used to break the habit of just rolling the fingers down and over the top of the ball.

Oh I understand this now. Bringing it as far around as it can go. It's a very similar idea to attempting Philpott's 'backspinner'

apologies TomBowler97

 

[Cleanprophet]

You can practice all types of releases from hand to hand by just moving the position of your arm. You can also practice spinning the ball back to yourself just like a wristspun backspinner. But of course, you can only bowl the backspin in this manner because doing so normally requires that you bend your arm massively. All other backspinning deliveries are just dragging your fingers down the back of a ball like a seam delivery. Putting any decent amount of revs on a wristspun backspinner is not legally possible.

 

[boogiespinner]

All other backspinning deliveries are just dragging your fingers down the back of a ball like a seam delivery. Putting any decent amount of revs on a wristspun backspinner is not legally possible.

It would be perfectly legal! Just not physically possible.

It's possible to produce a thumb-spun backspinning delivery though.

 

[Cleanprophet]

It would be perfectly legal! Just not physically possible.

It's possible to produce a thumb-spun backspinning delivery though.

Well, yeah, I suppose if you don't change the bend of the elbow (ie you don't throw it), then it would be fine. As you say, it would be exceptionally awkward to do and probably impossible to do so accurately and consistently. Which is a shame because can you imagine how effective a wristspun backspinner would be? You can easily see why so many people talk about, even dream about, a genuine backspinner with big revs on it. Just not practical unfortunately.