Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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SLA said:
Guys, just a reminder on good practice: please don't give technical advice to someone you've never met based on unclear video footage, its highly unprofessional. Without carrying out due diligence including a live assessment, your advice is almost certainly wrong and likely to lead to poor quality outcomes. Even if you are a fully qualified and insured coach, this would count as obvious malpractice and leave you open to legal action should the recipient injure themselves or reduce their performance upon taking your advice. if you're not a fully qualified and insured coach, then.... jesus wept....
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Jeez, SLA I can tell you’re a glass half empty sort of guy.

So to ease your mind I will let you know that I was an accredited coach. I have retired from cricket so no longer keep up my accreditation as it costs money. I’m not insured. So it is a sort of buyer beware situation, which I would have thought is practiced by everyone on the internet anyway.

I got into coaching when I sought out a couple of professional coaches to improve my game. One of my coaches was a wonderful coach and person called George Tribe (look him up SLA). He recommended that if I wanted to know more about how to improve my game I should do some coaching courses. Eventually in 1979 I became a senior coach with the Victorian Cricket Assoc.

I would recommend doing coaching courses as a way for anyone to improve their own playing skills, learn more about themselves and how to communicate with other players of ALL levels. I coached for 30 years, sometimes as a paid coach and sometimes for nothing. I found this site and thought that I could share some of my experience with people asking for help.

Anyway back to your response SLA. Robert must be really keen to improve his game. He made a short video and posted it and posted it again asking for feedback when his first post was ignored. The video has its shortcomings, but I watched it at least 50 times on repeat. It is very clear from what can be seen on the video that there are two things he can work on. Getting his bowling hand finishing on the opposite side of his body near his hip and getting closer to the stumps with his front foot. I wouldn’t have thought that the advice given was anything radical or out of order.

It’s up to Robert if he chooses to try my suggestions. I always listen to advice and sort through what I think is useful and ignore the rest, which SLA, I will do to your recommendation in this case. I would like believe that Robert (and anyone else who asks for advice here) is also capable of doing that.
 
Neville Young said:
Jeez, SLA I can tell you’re a glass half empty sort of guy.

So to ease your mind I will let you know that I was an accredited coach. I have retired from cricket so no longer keep up my accreditation as it costs money. I’m not insured. So it is a sort of buyer beware situation, which I would have thought is practiced by everyone on the internet anyway.

I got into coaching when I sought out a couple of professional coaches to improve my game. One of my coaches was a wonderful coach and person called George Tribe (look him up SLA). He recommended that if I wanted to know more about how to improve my game I should do some coaching courses. Eventually in 1979 I became a senior coach with the Victorian Cricket Assoc.

I would recommend doing coaching courses as a way for anyone to improve their own playing skills, learn more about themselves and how to communicate with other players of ALL levels. I coached for 30 years, sometimes as a paid coach and sometimes for nothing. I found this site and thought that I could share some of my experience with people asking for help.

Anyway back to your response SLA. Robert must be really keen to improve his game. He made a short video and posted it and posted it again asking for feedback when his first post was ignored. The video has its shortcomings, but I watched it at least 50 times on repeat. It is very clear from what can be seen on the video that there are two things he can work on. Getting his bowling hand finishing on the opposite side of his body near his hip and getting closer to the stumps with his front foot. I wouldn’t have thought that the advice given was anything radical or out of order.

It’s up to Robert if he chooses to try my suggestions. I always listen to advice and sort through what I think is useful and ignore the rest, which SLA, I will do to your recommendation in this case. I would like believe that Robert (and anyone else who asks for advice here) is also capable of doing that.
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The main advice you should be giving him is to join a club with a coaching set up who can properly assess him and take it from there.

Maybe there is a reason he bowls from wider on the crease. Maybe there is a reason he brings his arm down the way he does. Did you ask him before interfering? A competent, professional coach would have done.

Leg spin is not a game of aesthetics, every bowling action is different. We moved away from this autocratic "all leg-spinners must look exactly like this" approach a decade ago - you need to catch up with modern coaching practices. Its not 1979 anymore. Your methods are outdated and your attitude is a disgrace.
 
SLA said:
The main advice you should be giving him is to join a club with a coaching set up who can properly assess him and take it from there.
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That's advice that you are free to give Robert Walker yourself, he's right here. Others will have their own observations. If you have a problem with people seeking such advice and others giving it in good faith please take that up with the site administrators.
 
Robert Walker said:

My bowling action from the front
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Robert - please join a club and find a coach who will give you considered, professional tailored advice based around your needs. Make them give you a performance-related justification for every piece of advice - showing you a video of Shane Warne and telling you to bowl more like that is not good enough.

Never, ever listen to any coach who tells you to change something simply because of the way it looks, like the way you bring your bowling arm down. They are not interested in helping you, they are just trying to boost their own egos. They are the kind of stupid, self-centred coaches who would have told a young Lasith Malinga that he needed to bowl with a higher arm. Coaches like this have destroyed thousands of cricket careers over the years - don't let them destroy yours.
 
SLA said:
Robert - please join a club and find a coach who will give you considered, professional tailored advice based around your needs. Make them give you a performance-related justification for every piece of advice - showing you a video of Shane Warne and telling you to bowl more like that is not good enough.

Never, ever listen to any coach who tells you to change something simply because of the way it looks, like the way you bring your bowling arm down. They are not interested in helping you, they are just trying to boost their own egos. They are the kind of stupid, self-centred coaches who would have told a young Lasith Malinga that he needed to bowl with a higher arm. Coaches like this have destroyed thousands of cricket careers over the years - don't let them destroy yours.
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Dear SLA, I am new to this forum and so do not yet know the contributors on here. After your attacks, abuse and bullying attempts I wondered if it was just me or were you the same to everyone. I had a look at some of your old posts. It seems that whenever there is an opinion that doesn't match yours, you don't discuss things you simply try to belittle, bully and denigrate the other person. So let me set you straight, I'm not going anywhere. I will continue to offer advice to people who seek assistance and if you continue to carry on, I will make fun of you and your comments. You smellfungus!
http://www.alphadictionary.com/goodword/word/smellfungus
 
For what it's worth having posted my own videos on here I agree with Neville Young. I found SLA's default attitude to be critical and not constructive. Telling someone who wants good free advice on the internet to go and pay for professional coaching seems less than helpful to me.
 
Darth Spin said:
For what it's worth having posted my own videos on here I agree with Neville Young. I found SLA's default attitude to be critical and not constructive. Telling someone who wants good free advice on the internet to go and pay for professional coaching seems less than helpful to me.
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You realise that there is plenty of free professional coaching out there?


Better find a genuine honest professional coach than listen to an arrogant boastful disgrace to cricket happy to ******** up your entire career.
 
Neville Young said:
Dear SLA, I am new to this forum and so do not yet know the contributors on here. After your attacks, abuse and bullying attempts I wondered if it was just me or were you the same to everyone. I had a look at some of your old posts. It seems that whenever there is an opinion that doesn't match yours, you don't discuss things you simply try to belittle, bully and denigrate the other person. So let me set you straight, I'm not going anywhere. I will continue to offer advice to people who seek assistance and if you continue to carry on, I will make fun of you and your comments. You smellfungus!
http://www.alphadictionary.com/goodword/word/smellfungus
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Hi Neville, rather than resorting to the kind of repeated personal and unprovoked insults that are liable to get you banned from the website, why don't you respond in a mature and honest manner to the genuine points I raise. I'm genuinely concerned that you haven't done cpd in a long time and I'm worried that you are causing genuine damage to young cricketers careers. Please reply sensibly and respectfully and leave the childish attitude at the door
 
SLA said:
You realise that there is plenty of free professional coaching out there?


Better find a genuine honest professional coach than listen to an arrogant boastful disgrace to cricket happy to ******** up your entire career.
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I have yet to see you offer anything constructive in relation to the videos posted other than "go and find a professional".
 
Darth Spin said:
I have yet to see you offer anything constructive in relation to the videos posted other than "go and find a professional".
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That is the only constructive thing to say, other than to offer support and encouragement and a discussion of outcomes and tactics.

Lets be clear here: cricket is not gymnastics or ice dancing. Its a game based on your ability to get batsmen out and prevent them from scoring, not a game based on aesthetics or technical perfection.

Therefore, to give advice based on what someone's action looks like is completely wrong - it matters ******** all what someone's action looks like - what matters is what happens down the other end of the pitch. A competent coach would know this and NEVER give advice based on aesthetics.


Come on - you know that what I am saying is true. Why do you think English and Australian cricket has such a problem with encouraging innovation and originality? Its because as soon as anyone shows any kind of flair, a self-appointed know-it-all like Neville comes along and bullies it out of them.
 
SLA said:
That is the only constructive thing to say, other than to offer support and encouragement and a discussion of outcomes and tactics.

Lets be clear here: cricket is not gymnastics or ice dancing. Its a game based on your ability to get batsmen out and prevent them from scoring, not a game based on aesthetics or technical perfection.

Therefore, to give advice based on what someone's action looks like is completely wrong - it matters ******** all what someone's action looks like - what matters is what happens down the other end of the pitch. A competent coach would know this and NEVER give advice based on aesthetics.


Come on - you know that what I am saying is true. Why do you think English and Australian cricket has such a problem with encouraging innovation and originality? Its because as soon as anyone shows any kind of flair, a self-appointed know-it-all like Neville comes along and bullies it out of them.
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The lad obviously wanted some help with his bowling to achieve better results. Part of being a good leg spinner is seeking out advice, choosing what to listen to, what to discard and knowing how to use the advice to your own advantage.

In your dogmatic world nobody can give technical advice on the forum. It's like going to the GP and being told to find a specialist on Harley Street.
 
SLA, the one behaving in authoritarian fashion is you. Please stop. It regularly disturbs what is otherwise a friendly spinning forum. If you have problems with the nature of people sharing help on the internet then please just concern yourself with your professional practice.
 
Darth Spin said:
The lad obviously wanted some help with his bowling to achieve better results. Part of being a good leg spinner is seeking out advice, choosing what to listen to, what to discard and knowing how to use the advice to your own advantage.

In your dogmatic world nobody can give technical advice on the forum. It's like going to the GP and being told to find a specialist on Harley Street.
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On the contrary, there is a direct parallel there - its like asking for medical advice on a forum about the pain in your chest and the tingling in your left arm and being told to go straight to the doctor - which is exactly what any responsible person WOULD advise.


You can't give technical advice based solely on one video, with no additional information at all. A supposed qualified coach like Neville should know that.
 
There are indeed many health discussion forums on the internet - I have used a few myself, they have been invaluable for me, and I believe I have also helped others with them. Only recently on one I witnessed, a poster identified a child's symptoms as being consistent with type 1 diabetes, and thus the mother was able to instruct doctors who had previously ignored the issue to test for it. I have myself used the internet to not only diagnose my own health conditions where doctors failed, and source really valuable treatments too, but also recently diagnose my mother's whooping cough which three doctors including one lung specialist had failed to spot. She'd been hospitalised at one point. They were treating her for viral pneumonia and throwing antibiotics at it (you figure that one out). When the tests came back, they were calling me a medical genius. Not so, I just know two things. One, how to google, and two, you can't necessarily trust authority.

I regard cricket coaches as not much better on the whole than doctors. But this is not the point anyway. We are not dealing with medical emergencies, this is a place for hobbyists, cricket is a GAME. To compare bowling action advice with heart attack protocol is just ridiculous.

This seems to be the only forum on the internet where legspin bowlers hang out. It's difficult bowling legspin, and to keep promoting the art it's really nice if it can continue to be a friendly place where we can congregate, share insights and tips, and maybe emotional support too. But this is really not helped if one poster (that's you SLA) keeps getting into very personal battles because someone disagrees with him. This is not helpful SLA, and I don't care how good you think your advice is, or how inaccurate you think other's advice is. That's not the point.
 
boogiespinner said:
There are indeed many health discussion forums on the internet - I have used a few myself, they have been invaluable for me, and I believe I have also helped others with them. Only recently on one I witnessed, a poster identified a child's symptoms as being consistent with type 1 diabetes, and thus the mother was able to instruct doctors who had previously ignored the issue to test for it. I have myself used the internet to not only diagnose my own health conditions where doctors failed, and source really valuable treatments too, but also recently diagnose my mother's whooping cough which three doctors including one lung specialist had failed to spot. She'd been hospitalised at one point. They were treating her for viral pneumonia and throwing antibiotics at it (you figure that one out). When the tests came back, they were calling me a medical genius. Not so, I just know two things. One, how to google, and two, you can't necessarily trust authority.

I regard cricket coaches as not much better on the whole than doctors. But this is not the point anyway. We are not dealing with medical emergencies, this is a place for hobbyists, cricket is a GAME. To compare bowling action advice with heart attack protocol is just ridiculous.

This seems to be the only forum on the internet where legspin bowlers hang out. It's difficult bowling legspin, and to keep promoting the art it's really nice if it can continue to be a friendly place where we can congregate, share insights and tips, and maybe emotional support too. But this is really not helped if one poster (that's you SLA) keeps getting into very personal battles because someone disagrees with him. This is not helpful SLA, and I don't care how good you think your advice is, or how inaccurate you think other's advice is. That's not the point.
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Please stop with the unprovoked personal attacks. It's simply unacceptable behaviour
 
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