Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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SLA said:
Thank you. Flexion, not extension, of the wrist, therefore a leg cutter, not a leg break. Point proven, I think. I accept your apology.
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On the contrary SLA, the point proven - comprehensively - is that Wilkins does not share your definition of a leg-cutter, and considers that Barnes bowled leg-breaks.
 
Had a brief net practice today. Standing start from 15 yards. Really struggled. I can bowl a topspinner with a high arm. At least, I think it's a high arm. Sometimes it breaks to leg unintentionally. No matter. But I can only bowl the big legbreaks from 10 o'clock, which I feel is too roundarm. When I bowl from 10 o'clock there's a really satisfying feeling of getting big spin on the ball, but I can't translate this to the higher arm, and it's inaccurate. I'm not quite sure which way to go. Maybe I need to video myself. Practice practice
 
ok I have to get used to videos so I took my phone down to the nets. One pace off maybe 18-20 yards. Any constructive observations welcome

 
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I enjoyed also forgetting about pitching the ball and just trying to send the ball into the back netting from a comfortable distance. Nice because you can just focus on 'zip'.
 
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/2013/04/21/sid-barnes-the-greatest-bowler/
Arlott wrote, “a right-arm fast-medium bowler with the accuracy, spin and resource of a slow bowler”. Barnes held the ball with his index, middle and ring fingers along and touching the seam, and he could bowl off breaks and leg breaks without much change of action – but that the leg-break was his usual and most devastating delivery. Both as mentioned earlier were bowled with his palm facing the batter. A front of hand delivery would usually imply that Barnes bowled leg-cutters – a delivery in which spin is imparted by cutting the fingers across the left hand side of the ball as it is released. Barnes denied in interviews that he bowled leg-cutters – he said that he spun the ball. So Barnes must have flicked the ball with his fingers. Pictures show Barnes had his ring finger curled along the seam so as to flick a leg break off his index finger. Not an easy thing to do when bowling medium quick.
 
Neville Young said:
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/2013/04/21/sid-barnes-the-greatest-bowler/
Arlott wrote, “a right-arm fast-medium bowler with the accuracy, spin and resource of a slow bowler”. Barnes held the ball with his index, middle and ring fingers along and touching the seam, and he could bowl off breaks and leg breaks without much change of action – but that the leg-break was his usual and most devastating delivery. Both as mentioned earlier were bowled with his palm facing the batter. A front of hand delivery would usually imply that Barnes bowled leg-cutters – a delivery in which spin is imparted by cutting the fingers across the left hand side of the ball as it is released. Barnes denied in interviews that he bowled leg-cutters – he said that he spun the ball. So Barnes must have flicked the ball with his fingers. Pictures show Barnes had his ring finger curled along the seam so as to flick a leg break off his index finger. Not an easy thing to do when bowling medium quick.
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From what I've seen, heard and believe of this action myself, Barnes definitely bowled leg-cutters. Frankly, I think it is totally impossible to bowl a genuine legspinner at anything quicker than 60mph. The man himself said he bowled with spin. The distinction between cutters and spinners is simply the amount of revolutions imparted and, as far as I am concerned, at the sort of speeds that Barnes bowled he was putting small amounts of revolutions on the ball - producing something much more in the cutter category. Bowling on uncovered pitches would have meant that a small amount of movement at 75mph-80mph is likely and with swing in and movement off the pitch, you have an incredibly effective delivery.

As far as I am concerned, if it is possible to put big revs on the ball at 75mph-80mph, then there would have been examples of this type of bowling other than just one man - not matter how skilled he was.

I suspect it's a case of a very skilful bowler making full use of uncovered pitches.
 
Chino#21 said:
Yeah the problem with bowling with such a round arm is that it could lead to some seriously wide drag downs if the ball doesn't come out right. But as long as you are spinning the ball and bowling it accurately I don't think it's necessary to work on your action. Every time you want to change something in your action you interrupt the muscle memory you've been building up. But it's a good idea to look at a video. It's very difficult to determine exactly how low/high your arm is while bowling if you don't have a visual reference.
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For sure. You want to have your arm moving with the same angle everytime (be that vertical or slightly angled). Round arm is not a good option. And I agreee about the visual reference. You are usually nowhere near as roundarm or vertical as you think.
 
Chandrasekhar did much the same thing for India in the 60's and 70's. A very quick leggie, he regularly bowled bouncers and was a joy to watch bowling, one of the greatest of Indian spinners.
Cricket commentator and funny man Kerry O'Keefe also bowled quickly, but nowhere near as fast as Chandrasekhar. According to O'Reilly, he and O'Keefe were of similar speeds.
 
So making myself practice every day now. The chap in the other net the other day who filmed a few balls was really taking an interest in my bowling and asked what level I was playing. "Just social" I said. He remarked that he thought with the spin I was getting I could give first team players problems. He then invited me to bowl a few to a child in the next net, who then hit me all over the place :)

So my plan is:
1) Train to bowl with a vertical arm
2) Gradually find a bit more pace
3) Cut out all the wide deliveries

Practice tonight was centred on (1). It's going ok. I'm just planting my feet in a decent position (I noticed from the video I was planting my front foot a little out to the left, so I'm moving it to the right and placing at an angle) and then practicing topspinners with very short windup and visually looking up vertically to check my hand is up there. I'm also trying to concentrate on bringing the bowling arm through a vertical plane. How come this is so hard? It naturally tends to fly out across the body. Stuart MacGill says this is a big mistake in one of his videos, so I'm going with that.

Practice practice practice
 
I've been away so haven't practised for a week or so and it's raining today.

I have a new idea which I've been starting on though. The classic line for fast bowlers is, "bend your back". It seems pretty plausible that a great deal of pace is indeed generated from back-bending. So, I am practising back-bending stretches, with the aim of being able to do a "scorpion pose" or beyond. I hope that for spin bowling this will help generate both pace and spin. I can't see that this will do any harm.

Anyone played any matches recently? I'm not playing until the end of the month, a friendly - so have a few weeks to refine everything and hopefully impress. No surprise I'm not getting competitive picks our team has just beaten the current champions and are now strong contenders for the title.
 
Spin bowlers don't tend to bend their backs, because their bowling action is typically rotational, rather than linear. Some fast bowlers bend their back - its safe as long as they have reasonably early back foot rotation and front-on hip alignment at FFC - otherwise its potentially dangerous and can lead to injuries. I wouldn't recommend attempting to incorporate it into your action without a qualified coach present - to be honest with you, as you are a spinner I wouldn't recommend it at all. Momentum through the crease, a powerful hip drive and a fast arm are all more important.

I'm playing reasonably regular league cricket on a Saturday at the moment. No time for friendlies, and definitely no time for practice (I haven't practiced since March 2016). Not as much as I would like because of family and work commitments. After a slowish start when I didn't get many games in, the last month has been ok, averaging 40 with the bat and 15 with the ball with one 50 and one five-fer so far.
 
How fast should I bowl at u18 level?
I bowl quite slow and unless I'm hitting my areas I tend to get smashed. That's another problem, at the start of my spell I'm quite often all over the place, any tips?
 
Hi Robert,

There is no point asking any of us what speed you should bowl at. That should be something you ask your team mates at practice. Talk to all the batsman prior to bowling to them. Tell them what you are trying to achieve and ask them to give you feedback about your bowling speed, line and length. Focus on one thing at a time until you are satisfied with the results and then perhaps work on something else you want to improve. It could be anything you can think of. Closer to the stumps, googly, topspinner, delivering the ball back from the popping crease. Your team mates are the biggest asset you will have all through your cricketing journey in helping you improve. All you have to do is ask the right questions.


As far as being loose when beginning a spell it is something that you need to work on at practice. You should ALWAYS see if you can get a few overs in before the start of a game. There is no point in trying to warm up during a game.


Accuracy is really important because no matter how much potential you have as a bowler, you won’t get to bowl for any length of time if you continually give away runs by bowling loose balls every over. It is by bowling lengthy spells during a game that you will fully develop your skills as a bowler. To practice this you could try the following.

1. Mark 3 corridors about 150 mm apart starting from middle stump and extending out past the off stump.

Practice landing the ball in the corridors. Begin by aiming to land the ball between the two outermost lines. When you can do that consistently aim for a particular corridor.

2. Mark lines across the pitch. Start with the first line about 400 mm from the crease. Mark 3 more lines across the crease about 200 mm apart.

Practice landing the ball between the closest and farthest lines. Once you can do that consistently, then work on landing the ball between particular lines.

3. Once you have achieved good control, work on landing the ball in one of the 12 rectangles in the grid between the closest line and the crease line. If you are practicing with someone (and that is the best option because it generates competition and will focus your concentration) tell your partner which area of the grid you intend to land the ball. That will also make you more accountable. If you are practicing alone tell yourself where you intend to land the ball and keep score of your success rate. That way you can see if you are improving.

Keep in mind that this is a reasonably difficult task and you should not become deterred at your lack of success when you begin. Simply work on getting closer to landing the ball where you are intending and you will improve.

Good luck (Just remember that your luck will improve the more you practice).
 
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Robert Walker said:
How fast should I bowl at u18 level?
I bowl quite slow and unless I'm hitting my areas I tend to get smashed. That's another problem, at the start of my spell I'm quite often all over the place, any tips?
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Hi Robert, same issues here, except I'm in my 40's. It is only recently that I have found my preferred answer to this problem. It is - don't worry about it! I have decided that I practice for maximum spin, always, and the increase in pace comes when it comes and is not to be forced. I am currently viewing matches as markers for my progress rather than ends in themselves.

The result of this approach is that I am making progress that I was never able to before. If you want to be a respected member of a team reasonably quickly, then this might not work. But if you are like me and it's the quest to develop an amazing legbreak / googly / flipper that excites you, I say don't worry about getting hit around in matches, it can just take as long as it takes.
 
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boogiespinner said:
Anyone played any matches recently?
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I played my first match in several years today and came away with:-

2 overs
0 maidens
5 runs
3 wickets

First wicket was a full leg break to a tall batsman. He stayed rooted in his crease and tried to play a strange pull shot on the leg side but only succeeded in cleaning out his own stumps with the bat. Second was a googly with the last ball of my first over. It pitched on the leg side, the batsman went after it and dollied a little top edge to the wicket keeper. Third wicket was another googly in the last ball of my second over. Not a great delivery but he managed to spoon a catch straight to a man at deep square leg. In between that I found the edge to a right hander, the wicket keeper dived and was close but it got away. I put in a shout for an lbw with one where the guy played and missed, it caught his back pad on the way through and looked out to me but was not given. Another delivery (my best of the spell) was a nice turning leg break which beat the bat and missed the off stump by a few inches.

I am well chuffed.
 
Robert Walker said:
How fast should I bowl at u18 level?
I bowl quite slow and unless I'm hitting my areas I tend to get smashed.
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In terms of troubling the batsman, there is a trade-off between spin, accuracy, pace and cunning. As you have identified, the slower you bowl, the smaller the margin of error you have, particularly on the short side. Against a moderately competent amateur batsman, a bowler who bowls under 45mph is liable to be fetching the ball out of the nearby field should he drop even slightly short.
 
boogiespinner said:
I've been away so haven't practised for a week or so and it's raining today.

I have a new idea which I've been starting on though. The classic line for fast bowlers is, "bend your back". It seems pretty plausible that a great deal of pace is indeed generated from back-bending. So, I am practising back-bending stretches, with the aim of being able to do a "scorpion pose" or beyond. I hope that for spin bowling this will help generate both pace and spin. I can't see that this will do any harm.

Anyone played any matches recently? I'm not playing until the end of the month, a friendly - so have a few weeks to refine everything and hopefully impress. No surprise I'm not getting competitive picks our team has just beaten the current champions and are now strong contenders for the title.
Click to expand...

Played every week of the season so far with the exception of a coupe at start of July as I was on holiday. last week went well, a couple of wickets and generally bowled well. Before the holiday I had a good 9th wicket stand with my younger son in a lost cause scenario, both of us scoring PB's with the bat him 39 including his first 6 off a no - ball (Very nice), me with 19 equalling a long term best with the bat, loads of wides and no-balls meant that we ran out of overs only short by about 9 runs. I hate 40 overs games and this made me hate them even more as with the 10 extra overs we'd have easily done it. Younger son will be playing with the 3rds this week on his own - first time in the 3rds on his own, he should be in the 2nds really, but he's still a bit scared of the ball when fielding, but his bowling is well up to it. I reckon this'll be the end of him and me playing in the same team and may be the end of him playing cricket if he doesn't enjoy it - the club is almost insisting he plays at a higher level , but he's not interested. I reckon if they give him more time in the 4's, he'll get fed up with being dropped and seeing old duffers unable to stop the ball going to the boundary and make the transition to the 2nds on his own out of frustration. I reckon another season in the 4's, he'll be less scared of the ball, his batting will definitely get better as he seems right up for it since the game where he scored 39 not out and he'll be asking to go in the 2nds. We'll have to see how he gets on this weekend.
 
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