Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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doc8176 said:
Interesting question:

Do all of you bowl over the wicket to left handers?

I’m guessing probably because it brings more modes of dismissal in to play. But whenever I send some leggies down, I always find trying to rag one in from around the wicket is very effective.

I’m bringing this up because I’ve recently been trying my hand at bowling off spin around the wicket to right handers because the net synthetic was replaced and it gives me a little more turn with less bounce (so I can actually hit the wickets lol), also a bit more natural variation.

I’ve found the angle across with turn back in really throws them off because they can’t commit their front foot at all. Also slightly variability in bounce makes it harder for them to sit back on me and slog.

I saw a similar concept watching Australia the other night and a commentator said Mitch Starcs real danger ball is the one that starts to go outside off and swings back in, because it baits their footwork out.

Thought it was an interesting concept.


A grade: 2 out of the top 5 are spinners (both leggies)

C grade: first spinner is at 11, actually a batsman, but gets his leggie to turn a bit and has a big wrong’un.

E grade: first spinner is me bowling off spin at 7 (not older though). Then there’s a bloke at 11 that changes between leggies and pace.

We don’t really have many spinners, but the ones we do have are pretty good.

For A grade:

Terry (current B grade captain), occasionally turns the ball, but really gets it above the eyeline and uses subtle changes.

Imran, bowls massive wrong’uns and an off spinner carrom ball, but weird but very effective. 2nd highest wicket taker for A grade last year.

C Grade:

Zac, bowls a bit flatter than the other leggies, unconventional grip, scrambled seam. Can bowl a wrong’un that apparently everyone but me can pick, turn a decent amount. I actually really rate his bowling but he doesn’t seem to.

E grade:

Nik, VERY loopy, turns it. Too loopy.

The few senior spinners we have are very respected, at least by me, and they do have useful advice.

Although sometimes they do start talking out their ass a bit about something that is clearly just wrong. Like slowing my bowling down more, despite the fact that all my problems are probably caused by bowling TOO slow. Also my dad (not a spinner) trying to tell me that top spin makes it skid on and back spin makes it bounce.

And then the one time a dude said if a spinner makes the ball move it’s called drift, end of story. This is after I bowled an arm ball (seam up) that swung away from the batsman a fair bit and said “that swung”.

All in all they’re pretty good to have around, shame none of them are off spinners lol. Most of the time they have good advice but you do have to filter it out a bit.
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I find it amazing that you're the only Offie. I think in all 5 adult teams I'm the only Leggie. We have a few people who mix things up in the nets and bowl a few leggies and some of them exceptionally well as far as I can make out - but then I can't bat! I never see then trying leg-breaks against better bats in the nets. We're over-run with finger spinners, so much so many of them rarely get to bowl. We've had a new bloke in the nets this summer just gone who's in his early 20's who just naturally bowls really good Top spinners and he's developed a leg-break and a wrong-un and I'm hoping that next season he's going to join the club properly and play in either the 5th or 6th XI. It'll be interesting to see how he goes when he's bowling under pressure and whether he can absorb it and work through it. His top-spinner is decent and I'm looking forward to bowling in partnership with him - should be good.

Your not an advocate of slowing down and going loopy then? Are you more of a darting them in approach?
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
I've always hated bowling at Lefties, but this year in the nets I've bowled at a couple decent left handed bats. I have to work hard with both these blokes as they know what I do. They looking for Leg-Breaks that are a just a bit short which are hooked down fine Leg if on the stumps. I generally try and set them up, knowing that I'm going to go for runs initially - I try and bowl on a length trying to get them to drive through the covers or force a mistake as Leggie said bowling them through the gate. Never happens. I keep feeding Leggies and will get hooked leg-side, but the sucker punch comes with

I find it amazing that you're the only Offie. I think in all 5 adult teams I'm the only Leggie. We have a few people who mix things up in the nets and bowl a few leggies and some of them exceptionally well as far as I can make out - but then I can't bat! I never see then trying leg-breaks against better bats in the nets. We're over-run with finger spinners, so much so many of them rarely get to bowl. We've had a new bloke in the nets this summer just gone who's in his early 20's who just naturally bowls really good Top spinners and he's developed a leg-break and a wrong-un and I'm hoping that next season he's going to join the club properly and play in either the 5th or 6th XI. It'll be interesting to see how he goes when he's bowling under pressure and whether he can absorb it and work through it. His top-spinner is decent and I'm looking forward to bowling in partnership with him - should be good.

Your not an advocate of slowing down and going loopy then? Are you more of a darting them in approach?
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No I’m a massive fan of tossing it up and getting the batsman out rather than letting them get themselves out. I’ve just had problems with bowling too slow, granted a lot of those issues would also be from bowling on synthetic. I think I’ve said it on here before but my mantra is basically: If you can beat a batsman in flight it doesn’t matter how much the pitch is turning.

So yeah I tend to toss it up with a lot of top spin for an offie and get their feet in the wrong spot, or at least try to.

A lot of the batters bowl part time offies in the nets lol. Maybe it’s a cultural thing haha, because you’re English right? In Aus most spinners look up to Warne, I’d imagine a lot of English would see Swann maybe and try offspin. I’m not super familiar with good English spinners.

It’s weird, I feel like you actually are more in the game for an outside edge if you’re turning the ball into a batsman. I guess because it’s drifting away from them and then they have to protect their stumps, so a straight one is quite handy. And likewise I feel like I’m more in the game for an LBW to a left hander, I bowl around the wicket so it’s angling into them then nipping away, so my arm ball is extremely dangerous for them if they decided to sit back or start playing for the spin.
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
I hope you do and yeah you're right they need another option, you can't have a team without a slow bowling option. For instance our clubs end of year stats... No.2 - 31 wickets Right arm orthodox: No.4 26 wickets left arm orthodox: No.5 26 Right arm orthodox: No.6 Me. No.8 24 wickets right arm slow/orthodox. Half of the top ten bowlers are spinners/slow bowlers. In the top 5 - 3 are spinners. Two of the 5 hardly move the ball off of straight, relying on accuracy, change ups in length and flight. I think there's scope to be flexible and that should be kept in mind. I seem to get wickets because they're expecting classic leg-spin and they're totally put on the back foot by the fact that they then face "at the stumps bowling" with weird characteristics. But, there is definite scope for the Terry Jenner big landing area - tons of spin approach if you're playing on big grounds with good fielders.

It's going to be interesting to see how you go. I wish you luck and I really hope you do it, cos it is tough -really tough and you need the backing of your captain and the majority of your team, if not the whole team. I also think there's a lot of value in keeping records on the batters you face, making notes on their key shots and how they play you and other spinners.

If you look at the historic stats at your club, or other clubs in your area is it the same as here, where the top ten wicket takers are spin bowlers?
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For sure, I have started keeping a record on all the batters I've faced, and how I bowled against them in game - what worked and what didn't. slowly building it up now, hasn't come in handy yet but it will once we play them the second time. Its also good to see patterns in how you bowl, what works against what type of players.
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
Leggy88 Leggy88 " I certainly agree with the point of changing what doesn't work to make it work, although I would keep the solution within the scope of leg spin - not much good at offies or fast bowling". I think the notion that you're not good at some aspect of bowling and discarding it as an option is fraught with problems. I can't recall what your variations are, but I get the sense that at the moment that, against the better batters, your Leg-Breaks are not effective. Which then leads me to think that you need one of your variations to be almost as good as, if not better than your Leg-Break. What's your straight ball like. I know you've tried the Flipper, but I'm aware you have another straight delivery - what's that like?
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My wrong un is probably my best weapon, although it can come out wrong 40% of the time. For some reason it bounces like a tennis ball and turns a mile, batsmen are so surprised by it. Otherwise it would be my topspinner, but at the moment my toppie is coming out with sidespin as well so it turns, which is not ideal when you want it straight on. And the slider is my least accurate delivery, though I bowled it twice on the weekend and they somehow landed, and the batsmen didn't hit it out of the park like the leggies. In fact they just managed to jam down on it. Maybe theres something in that.
 
Maybe it's a case of going to the wrong'un and slider if they're coming out well on the weekend, when I face the first grade batsmen? That is if the leg spinners aren't working.
 
5cbc6b70821ccbe1c95d225ec028bbef.jpg

Of course the day AFTER my cricket match it drops 11 degrees.

Should be a good chance for me though, I can easily bowl 10 on the trot regardless of weather. Assuming we don’t bowl them out in 10-15 overs (again) the quicks should be cooked and I’ll have my chance.

It’s on our new synthetic wicket too, and if it behaves anything like the new syntho in our nets, it should turn nicely and stay low enough to hit the stumps.
 
doc8176 said:
5cbc6b70821ccbe1c95d225ec028bbef.jpg

Of course the day AFTER my cricket match it drops 11 degrees.

Should be a good chance for me though, I can easily bowl 10 on the trot regardless of weather. Assuming we don’t bowl them out in 10-15 overs (again) the quicks should be cooked and I’ll have my chance.

It’s on our new synthetic wicket too, and if it behaves anything like the new syntho in our nets, it should turn nicely and stay low enough to hit the stumps.
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Damn, at least the pitch will be good. Good luck mate. I don't understand how the temperature can drop that much from day to day, lol, and still have the same minimum temp.
 
Leggy88 said:
Damn, at least the pitch will be good. Good luck mate. I don't understand how the temperature can drop that much from day to day, lol, and still have the same minimum temp.
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Because Perth is essentially a desert so there’s no moisture in the air.

Water is one of the hardest things to heat up (requires a lot of energy per g to heat up to a certain temperature). So less water in the air means it changes temp really easy.

Also there’s a 45kmh easterly with 80kmh gusts which blows a ton of hot air from inland, which is obviously even more deserty than the metro area. All the heat would then be lost overnight because it’s not very cloudy and then Sunday has a gentle westerly (sea breeze) so it’s nice and cool.

Also it’s probably a passing low pressure system because there’s a small chance of some thunderstorms both days.

Climate science
 
Don't know if any of your are watching the world cup right now, but this BS that Zampa is serving up here as a tail-ender is what I was talking about a couple posts earlier. This does my head in when I'm playing - you bowl superbly against the proper bats and then this happens! Woakes as just got - thank **** for that!
 
We bowled them out for 67 today lol. Even less than last week.

I did bowl though, came on and took the last wicket of the innings with my first ball. Successfully stole our opening bowler’s 5fa.

Was a decent ball to a left hander around the wicket, he tried to hit me over mid off/cover and outside edged and absolute DOLLY to point.

I now average 117 for the season instead of infinity.
 
doc8176 said:
We bowled them out for 67 today lol. Even less than last week.

I did bowl though, came on and took the last wicket of the innings with my first ball. Successfully stole our opening bowler’s 5fa.

Was a decent ball to a left hander around the wicket, he tried to hit me over mid off/cover and outside edged and absolute DOLLY to point.

I now average 117 for the season instead of infinity.
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Nice, you watching the world cup - Zampa's on fire - just got Buttler for 1. He's top notch Zampa, a good bloke as well from the accounts I've heard of him.
 
Bowled alright today, the pitch was an absolute minefield, but only when the quicks were bowling. Despite that, the two first graders were building up a good partnership, at 2/50 when I came on. I bowled a maiden first over, nice and tight, all balls landed in the right area and they respected them. Next over, I bowl a ball that the batsmen charges down to, spins from leg to off, and hits off peg. Was pretty happy with that. After that I let through a couple runs, so I took myself off after 5 overs, 1/20. Had a couple half chances from the other first grader, balls just over the heads of fielders, but other than that didn't get much chances.

Bowled em out for 160 odd and then we got all bowled out for 80. I was opening, and we were ticking along nicely, 0/30 after 10 overs. Then they put the first grader on, who is also a gun leggy. So good that he is actually second leading wicket taker in mens first grade comp. I only hit the balls on my stumps, the rest spun viciously past the edge. It was the toughest spell I've ever faced, and eventually he bowled me one which I managed to edge, straight to slip. I'd managed to survive 3 straight maidens from him before that time however. Very accurate, and because he was spinning it so much, dip, drift, etc, it was hard to punish him when he erred on length or line. I really need to improve my play against spin though.
 
Leggy88 said:
Bowled alright today, the pitch was an absolute minefield, but only when the quicks were bowling. Despite that, the two first graders were building up a good partnership, at 2/50 when I came on. I bowled a maiden first over, nice and tight, all balls landed in the right area and they respected them. Next over, I bowl a ball that the batsmen charges down to, spins from leg to off, and hits off peg. Was pretty happy with that. After that I let through a couple runs, so I took myself off after 5 overs, 1/20. Had a couple half chances from the other first grader, balls just over the heads of fielders, but other than that didn't get much chances.

Bowled em out for 160 odd and then we got all bowled out for 80. I was opening, and we were ticking along nicely, 0/30 after 10 overs. Then they put the first grader on, who is also a gun leggy. So good that he is actually second leading wicket taker in mens first grade comp. I only hit the balls on my stumps, the rest spun viciously past the edge. It was the toughest spell I've ever faced, and eventually he bowled me one which I managed to edge, straight to slip. I'd managed to survive 3 straight maidens from him before that time however. Very accurate, and because he was spinning it so much, dip, drift, etc, it was hard to punish him when he erred on length or line. I really need to improve my play against spin though.
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To be honest, I don't think I did much different to what I did when I got smashed, but I think the difference was they were 2/50 and pretty defensive, whereas the others were 0/80 and looking to smash everything.
 
Leggy88 said:
To be honest, I don't think I did much different to what I did when I got smashed, but I think the difference was they were 2/50 and pretty defensive, whereas the others were 0/80 and looking to smash everything.
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Yeah coming on to bowl spin against 2 set batsmen is pretty rough.

You’ll pretty much get 1 or 2 chances early while they’re trying to smack you, and if your team drops them then good luck.
 
doc8176 said:
No I’m a massive fan of tossing it up and getting the batsman out rather than letting them get themselves out. I’ve just had problems with bowling too slow, granted a lot of those issues would also be from bowling on synthetic. I think I’ve said it on here before but my mantra is basically: If you can beat a batsman in flight it doesn’t matter how much the pitch is turning.

So yeah I tend to toss it up with a lot of top spin for an offie and get their feet in the wrong spot, or at least try to.

A lot of the batters bowl part time offies in the nets lol. Maybe it’s a cultural thing haha, because you’re English right? In Aus most spinners look up to Warne, I’d imagine a lot of English would see Swann maybe and try offspin. I’m not super familiar with good English spinners.

It’s weird, I feel like you actually are more in the game for an outside edge if you’re turning the ball into a batsman. I guess because it’s drifting away from them and then they have to protect their stumps, so a straight one is quite handy. And likewise I feel like I’m more in the game for an LBW to a left hander, I bowl around the wicket so it’s angling into them then nipping away, so my arm ball is extremely dangerous for them if they decided to sit back or start playing for the spin.
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You're absolutely right with Batters, that bowl a bit of off-spin. Maybe it is a cultural thing, you've had top class leggies almost every decade, where as if you were to ask me about other English Leggies before Adil Rashid, yeah I'm struggling. But Aussies Benaud, Grimmett, MacGill, the little bloke in short format cricket who bowled left arm wrist spin, his name will come to me in a minute, Terry Jenner, Peter Philpott, Beau Casson, The ginger bloke, Brad Hogg, just remembered! Bruce Doolan, Bill O'Reilly and Cec Pepper come to mind. The ginger bloke is new, can't remember his name for the moment.
 
Leggy88 said:
My wrong un is probably my best weapon, although it can come out wrong 40% of the time. For some reason it bounces like a tennis ball and turns a mile, batsmen are so surprised by it. Otherwise it would be my topspinner, but at the moment my toppie is coming out with sidespin as well so it turns, which is not ideal when you want it straight on. And the slider is my least accurate delivery, though I bowled it twice on the weekend and they somehow landed, and the batsmen didn't hit it out of the park like the leggies. In fact they just managed to jam down on it. Maybe theres something in that.
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Yeah that sound good, that sounds like you've not quite mastered it so it comes out with top-spin. If that's mixed with your Leggies, that's probably going to look like wrong-un and then wont turn and they'll get done by the bounce as well.
 
doc8176 said:
5cbc6b70821ccbe1c95d225ec028bbef.jpg

Of course the day AFTER my cricket match it drops 11 degrees.

Should be a good chance for me though, I can easily bowl 10 on the trot regardless of weather. Assuming we don’t bowl them out in 10-15 overs (again) the quicks should be cooked and I’ll have my chance.

It’s on our new synthetic wicket too, and if it behaves anything like the new syntho in our nets, it should turn nicely and stay low enough to hit the stumps.
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10 overs? What format are your games -is that a fifty over game? They change the rules and formats year on year here in between different leagues. The current format I play in is 40 overs and no-one is allowed to bowl over 8 overs. Several years ago, one bowler could have bowled 25 over from one end in a 50 over game. Do you play your games over 1 day, as I seem to recall I saw a format where each team bowled 25 overs each on a Saturday and then 25 overs the following day - does that sound right or have I got that round my neck?
 
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