Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Came on here to say how well Zampa is going in the world cup. His wrong-un is pretty straight much of the time. He's a good bowler - seems to keep it fairly simple. He's a good bloke as well if the stuff on Youtube is genuine.

I really appreciate bowlers like Zampa tbh.

Has 1 maybe 2 (I think he can bowl a slider?) real variations to his stock leggy.

Bowls with mostly top spin, doesn’t turn his leggy much but varies his pace unbelievably well, especially for a leg spinner.

His wrong un seems to turn JUST enough to beat the inside edge.
 
I really appreciate bowlers like Zampa tbh.

Has 1 maybe 2 (I think he can bowl a slider?) real variations to his stock leggy.

Bowls with mostly top spin, doesn’t turn his leggy much but varies his pace unbelievably well, especially for a leg spinner.

His wrong un seems to turn JUST enough to beat the inside edge.
He's the leading wicket taker after the match with the Dutch. Good to see a wrist spinner in that situation, shame we don't get to hear Warne's views on him anymore. Shame MacGill seems to have disappeared into obscurity these days, be interesting to hear his opinion.
 
He's the leading wicket taker after the match with the Dutch. Good to see a wrist spinner in that situation, shame we don't get to hear Warne's views on him anymore. Shame MacGill seems to have disappeared into obscurity these days, be interesting to hear his opinion.

Yeah, wouldn't be expecting any views from Mcgill nowadays. In a bit of trouble
 
Didn’t bowl because we bowled them out for 80 in 28 overs.

Didn’t get any catching chances.

We’re 4/50

And have been told I’m now batting at 11 instead of 9
 
Going to be up against some of the best batsman in my state tomorrow, first graders. Will tell you guys how I fare.

Well. Not so good to be frank.

Figures haven't come out yet but I reckon upwards of 1/50 off 4 overs.

Got hit for 3 sixes in a row, all short balls that I dragged down because of how I was getting frustrated that the batsmen were just hitting all my good balls back over my head for six. Then after that, he tried it again, fielder drops chance in the deep. They get a single, and next ball I bowl a full toss and the batsman hit it straight to short cover, for my only wicket of the day. to be fair I was bowling to their best batsmen, but still, I should have bowled a bit more accurately.

Hoping for a better spell next week. My team got smashed btw, they were chasing 200 (which is a good score) and I came on when they were 0/80 and finished bowling when they were 3/150. Those 3 wickets were the only ones we ended up taking. 1 was obviously mine, the rest were runouts. That's how good they were. Some of the balls I bowled felt really good, they would have challenged every other batsman, but these guys just hit them over the top for some of the biggest sixes I've seen in a game I've played in.
 
Well. Not so good to be frank.

Figures haven't come out yet but I reckon upwards of 1/50 off 4 overs.

Got hit for 3 sixes in a row, all short balls that I dragged down because of how I was getting frustrated that the batsmen were just hitting all my good balls back over my head for six. Then after that, he tried it again, fielder drops chance in the deep. They get a single, and next ball I bowl a full toss and the batsman hit it straight to short cover, for my only wicket of the day. to be fair I was bowling to their best batsmen, but still, I should have bowled a bit more accurately.

Hoping for a better spell next week. My team got smashed btw, they were chasing 200 (which is a good score) and I came on when they were 0/80 and finished bowling when they were 3/150. Those 3 wickets were the only ones we ended up taking. 1 was obviously mine, the rest were runouts. That's how good they were. Some of the balls I bowled felt really good, they would have challenged every other batsman, but these guys just hit them over the top for some of the biggest sixes I've seen in a game I've played in.

Yeah it’s pretty crazy how good the higher players are.

You think you’ve bowled a peach and they just step down and smash it for 6.
 
Yeah it’s pretty crazy how good the higher players are.

You think you’ve bowled a peach and they just step down and smash it for 6.

Yeah for sure. What do you reckon we need to do to get to the point where we can bowl well to these types of players? Obviously improving accuracy for one.
I reckon just getting more revs on the ball would help, on top of having a bit more experience/better tactics.
Because in the game today I wasn't even thinking about plans or anything, like pitching a couple outside off, then go from wide of the crease, bowl a wrong un, which is usually my go to. This is because if I had bowled the ball in the same place, which you need to do to set someone up, they would just hit me for the same result every time. So I had to bowl a different delivery every ball, in order to try and make it hard for them, and this is probably what unsettled me and destroyed my accuracy.

Edit: another couple kilometres of pace would have been helpful too, as the batsman was so good at using his feet.
 
Yeah for sure. What do you reckon we need to do to get to the point where we can bowl well to these types of players? Obviously improving accuracy for one.
I reckon just getting more revs on the ball would help, on top of having a bit more experience/better tactics.
Because in the game today I wasn't even thinking about plans or anything, like pitching a couple outside off, then go from wide of the crease, bowl a wrong un, which is usually my go to. This is because if I had bowled the ball in the same place, which you need to do to set someone up, they would just hit me for the same result every time. So I had to bowl a different delivery every ball, in order to try and make it hard for them, and this is probably what unsettled me and destroyed my accuracy.

Edit: another couple kilometres of pace would have been helpful too, as the batsman was so good at using his feet.

Yeah a little faster (to stop batsman using their feet as effectively is the actual reason they bowl so fast).

Subtle changes in pace, and yeah more revs pretty much.

More dip and drift so they can’t just read the line and length out of the hand.

Your margin for error is pretty much the size of a A4 piece of paper (if that).

Also if they’re playing against a worse team they likely will be trying to slog every ball anyway.

You’d also just have to be incredibly confident in your bowling and execution.
 
Well. Not so good to be frank.

Figures haven't come out yet but I reckon upwards of 1/50 off 4 overs.

Got hit for 3 sixes in a row, all short balls that I dragged down because of how I was getting frustrated that the batsmen were just hitting all my good balls back over my head for six. Then after that, he tried it again, fielder drops chance in the deep. They get a single, and next ball I bowl a full toss and the batsman hit it straight to short cover, for my only wicket of the day. to be fair I was bowling to their best batsmen, but still, I should have bowled a bit more accurately.

Hoping for a better spell next week. My team got smashed btw, they were chasing 200 (which is a good score) and I came on when they were 0/80 and finished bowling when they were 3/150. Those 3 wickets were the only ones we ended up taking. 1 was obviously mine, the rest were runouts. That's how good they were. Some of the balls I bowled felt really good, they would have challenged every other batsman, but these guys just hit them over the top for some of the biggest sixes I've seen in a game I've played in.
Was it recorded for Youtube?
 
Yeah it’s pretty crazy how good the higher players are.

You think you’ve bowled a peach and they just step down and smash it for 6.
I don't know how your league systems work, but here we have divisions within the league and each division has around 10 or 12 teams and everyone plays each other 1 game at home the other away. The top two or three get promoted up the division - no idea what happens at the very top. As an old bloke playing in a 5th XI team made up of other generally older blokes, kids and big lads and only getting into the league this summer just gone, we come up against a variety of levels and usually the teams that get promoted at the end of the season are good. This year the team at the top didn't lose a game and I think like us it was the their first year in the league. They were completely different to any of the other teams - they were all in their 20's and 30's except maybe the capt who looked in his 40's. They were all fit and athletic and could all bowl and bat really well. Seems as they were an unknown entity with no other teams in their club, they were put in our division at the bottom, they just decimated everyone, so yeah I can relate to your comment here. But TBH I like the challenge, although frustrating when I get them to mishit and the balls not caught. Another thing we come across, which we do very rarely is the rotation of players from their better squads. I can find myself bowling against a bloke who bats incredibly well and then when you check him out latter you find he's spent 15-20 years playing in their 1st or 2nd XI and he's been drafted in to try and ensure their team win the game and stay off the bottom of the league. I guess you all face similar situations?
 
Yeah a little faster (to stop batsman using their feet as effectively is the actual reason they bowl so fast).

Subtle changes in pace, and yeah more revs pretty much.

More dip and drift so they can’t just read the line and length out of the hand.

Your margin for error is pretty much the size of a A4 piece of paper (if that).

Also if they’re playing against a worse team they likely will be trying to slog every ball anyway.

You’d also just have to be incredibly confident in your bowling and execution.
Yeah all of those. I'd also add your variation/s. I don't know about you lot, but in these situations I've tended to bowl faster, but I don't think that's the answer at all. A plan is useful, quickly assessing where they're going to hit you if you put the ball in a specific area, then knowing if you go for that approach you have the players in the field to follow through with the catching if you execute your ball correctly - so being able to bowl to your field (Accuracy). I've often got captains in my ear giving it "Make him play" e.g. bowl at the stumps, which I get, but that gives them options for hitting either side of the wicket and makes it harder to set fields to. What do you reckon to setting these points in order of importance? I reckon there's a range of opinions on this, there'll be the Peter Philpott professional school of thought which you'll hear so many pro's advocating, which assumes that it's the 1960's and everyone just plays sport in the sun 24/7 or has access to space and time to bowl every day for 4 hours, that school of thought leads with the mantra 'Spin the ball hard'. I think if you totally focus on spinning the ball hard, but don't have the time to put in the hours to practice doing that - that may be a flawed approach as without the hours practicing you're not going to be that accurate? Again that might be fine against weaker bats with good athletic fielders who can take catches, but with poor fielders against good batters I reckon you're onto taking some tap.
 
Yeah all of those. I'd also add your variation/s. I don't know about you lot, but in these situations I've tended to bowl faster, but I don't think that's the answer at all. A plan is useful, quickly assessing where they're going to hit you if you put the ball in a specific area, then knowing if you go for that approach you have the players in the field to follow through with the catching if you execute your ball correctly - so being able to bowl to your field (Accuracy). I've often got captains in my ear giving it "Make him play" e.g. bowl at the stumps, which I get, but that gives them options for hitting either side of the wicket and makes it harder to set fields to. What do you reckon to setting these points in order of importance? I reckon there's a range of opinions on this, there'll be the Peter Philpott professional school of thought which you'll hear so many pro's advocating, which assumes that it's the 1960's and everyone just plays sport in the sun 24/7 or has access to space and time to bowl every day for 4 hours, that school of thought leads with the mantra 'Spin the ball hard'. I think if you totally focus on spinning the ball hard, but don't have the time to put in the hours to practice doing that - that may be a flawed approach as without the hours practicing you're not going to be that accurate? Again that might be fine against weaker bats with good athletic fielders who can take catches, but with poor fielders against good batters I reckon you're onto taking some tap.

I generally agree with the “spin the ball hard” group. You’re a spin bowler, not a slow bowler or medium pacer. Without a good amount of revs on the ball you lose any drift, dip, bounce and turn to deceive the batsman with, it doesn’t matter how accurate you are if the ball does nothing and the batsman can either just step down to you and smack you over the top, or not even both with walking down and just smack you over the top anyway.

I think a very underrated part of putting a large amount of revs on the ball is that with overspin, it allows you to bowl the ball a decent bit faster while still getting it above the eyeline because of the dip that you generate.

Yes you do have to learn to be accurate too, but there’s no point in learning to be accurate before you put revs on the ball because imo the motion used to put more revs on the ball would likely ruin any previous training you’ve done. Also all good, accurate spinners that turn the ball have put in a LOT of hours to be able to control the ball so well.
 
I just reread your post and realised I slightly missed the point.

Yeah it’s hard to find the time to train the accuracy. But it’s pretty much as simple as you won’t become a world class spinner if you don’t have the time to do that. Just how it is, you either have the time to train it or you don’t.

I’d also argue that inaccurate bowling with lots of revs relies less on fielders than accurate straight bowling. It’s much harder to buy wickets and instead rely on them mis hitting it to fielders after they get impatient. But for a high rev inaccurate bowler you might go for more runs, but you can bowl a ball that beats the batsman and hits his front pad or takes his bails off.
 
I just reread your post and realised I slightly missed the point.

Yeah it’s hard to find the time to train the accuracy. But it’s pretty much as simple as you won’t become a world class spinner if you don’t have the time to do that. Just how it is, you either have the time to train it or you don’t.

I’d also argue that inaccurate bowling with lots of revs relies less on fielders than accurate straight bowling. It’s much harder to buy wickets and instead rely on them mis hitting it to fielders after they get impatient. But for a high rev inaccurate bowler you might go for more runs, but you can bowl a ball that beats the batsman and hits his front pad or takes his bails off.
Yeah I guess, there are multiple factors to consider. I just know that I was basically out of the game when I used to spin hard, hardly any wickets - balls being dropped every game, five-fers alluding me in most games due to poor fielding and expensive. Got dropped. There's a Terry Jenner video on Youtube made by the BBC - in the video he chalks a massive circle as a landing zone and says if you spin it hard and land it in there, you're going to take wickets. The thing to take away from that, is accuracy isn't necessary as the circle is enormous (Previous post (Leggy)? talks about needing to land it on an area A4 in size) but what you have to realise he's pretty much saying most of your wickets are from stumpings or catches. Playing in far better teams, the inaccuracy but spin hard mantra does work, especially on bigger pitches because the fielders will play their part. But on wickets of a certain nature accuracy in my opinion is primary - this is not to say I'm not spinning it, I am, but I'm not totally focused on getting it really fizzing over everything else, which is what I've done previously. It's interesting to see currently how Zampa is doing so well, yet he hardly turns the ball, but is relatively accurate. Spin/dip might be a factor, but it's not apparent in way some spinners use if dip is.
 
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