Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Top Contributors
copthat1 said:
This would be too inconsistent and far too easy to pick.

I'm thinking more things to do with wrist positioning, arm angles etc.
Click to expand...

Easy to pick, but they still have to play it.

Sorry then I can't help you, perhaps just bowling with more top spin and trying to get more revs will allow you to get more flight? But for that to happen you need to get lots of revs, and the ability to apply varying degrees of side and over spin.
 
copthat1 said:
I struggle to give the ball more flight without slowing down my arm action.

How do I go about giving the ball a touch more air without slowing down my arm, to make sure I maintain revolutions, drift and dip?
Click to expand...

You just need to release the ball a fraction earlier - and I mean a fraction. You only need to release the ball a few inches further back to give it more air. Just try to get a feeling for spinning the ball up out the hand. When you get that, you can vary how much you spin it up out of your hand without making any adjustment in arm speed or in your wrist.

The talk above about line and length is interesting. If you look around on the net for info on what sort of line and length to bowl, you will struggle to find anything definitive. The reason for that is that there is no definitive line and length. It depends on the batter and the pitch. A good length on one pitch will not been a good length on another pitch. Equally, you may have to alter your length for both batters out in the middle. It's why you always like to keep the same batter on strike for as long as possible.

I was bowling to a batter in the nets the other day and it was apparant early on that he was very strong outside his off-stump. You then have two options:

1) Float a few up outside off-stump and let him swing away or

2) Bowl on middle and off and frustrate him.

Depends on how you are feeling. In the nets, I opted to bowl on the stumps and the batter got out the old slog sweep (old faithful for any right hander who's struggling to score). Inevitably, I bowled him, middle stump. But I could easily have stuck to a line just outside off-stump, set a good off-side field and waited for him to miss the length and lob one up.

Ultimately, your aim should be to get the batter driving and you have to work out what length will do that in the match. There was a good piece Shane Warne did during the Ashes in England a few months ago where he spoke specifically about finding a line and length. His point was that on every pitch you have to start from scratch and work out which length/line gives the best balance of turn and bounce. That's the point, there is no ideal line and length for all pitches and all batters. You have to work that out every single time and, as much as anything else, that's what seperates the best from the rest.
 
There was a commentator who had a look at hawk-eye analysis of Shane Warne's line and length on almost every pitch he bowled on. Not sure who it was, I think it was David Lloyd (or another commentator that sounds a bit like him) He found out the spot where Warne liked to pitch the ball on nearly every surface was 8-9 feet from the popping crease. This length definitely works good against nearly every type of batsman in my own experience. Most average wrist spinners prefer the middle stump line, but you can never say which line will be the most effective until you work out the batsman and pitch.
 
Against doctors advice I played yesterday (recovering index finger), largely because I hate Xmas shopping! The game was against a poor side that was weakened with several players away for the Xmas holidays, we weren't at our strongest either but the gulf between the sides was now absurdly large.

Batting first we made 347/5 from our 50 overs and got to bowl on a pitch that already had some dust and footmarks. Not surprisingly our seamers made no breakthroughs with there being no swing or seam movement but they kept the opposition very quiet.

The protege came on at the 15th over and bowled through his allotted 10 with figures of 10-2-34-4, 3 bowled and 1 LBW coming from sliders which were essentially set up with quick 3 ball tricks (2 x leg break, then slider), he probably should have had 7 and finished the game off early but out catching was woeful. He's having another good start to the season ahead of the turning wickets after Xmas, 55 overs 12 wickets for 150ish, hopefully the spots in the 1sts open up so he can do his thing at the level he deserves to be playing.

I came on at the 26th when they were 97/2 after 25. I claimed the 2 set batsman, a RHB and LHB, with a leg break and googly which they both hit straight up in the air. My 3rd wicket came a couple of overs later with a leg break being hits straight up & caught by the keeper at about short cover. Just like the protege I could have had easily another 2-3 wickets but I guess we weren't concentrating on our catching as we were going to win anyway. Finishing with 6-1-16-3 wasn't a bad Xmas present and although I still aren't feeling the rush from the game taking a few wickets always makes you feel better.
 
Jacques Voigt said:
Congrats leftie600 ! Great figures :)

Who is the protege you mentioned?
Click to expand...

Not going to name names as he's a quiet guy but basically 2 years ago a 18yo social player who barely bowled came to me to learn how to bowl legspin, 1/2 way through that season he earned his way into the club 2nds and since then he's been knocking on the 1sts door averaging 15 with the ball on NZ pitches (i.e. mud). Our team's feeling is that he'll do great as batsman in general are not being given out LBW to him and they will do in the next grade as there will be better umps. The key to his bowling is very good use of flight, mixing of over & underspin and that ideal pace where the batsman is not comfortable charging or going back.
 
leftie600 said:
Not going to name names as he's a quiet guy but basically 2 years ago a 18yo social player who barely bowled came to me to learn how to bowl legspin, 1/2 way through that season he earned his way into the club 2nds and since then he's been knocking on the 1sts door averaging 15 with the ball on NZ pitches (i.e. mud). Our team's feeling is that he'll do great as batsman in general are not being given out LBW to him and they will do in the next grade as there will be better umps. The key to his bowling is very good use of flight, mixing of over & underspin and that ideal pace where the batsman is not comfortable charging or going back.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Here in South Africa we very rarely have protege spinners, I can't think of any I've seen / heard of, I probably don't count as one either because I've been bowling chinamen for about 2 years now :D

My 11 year old cousin is definitiely one, the first few leggies he bowled were amazing. He also got a 5-trick in a trial game! ( Every bowler was allowed 1 over and he finished with 5 wickets for no runs ) Every now and then he gets noticeable drift and dip, of course he lacks accuracy but that's understandable. His bowling average is quite ridiculous - 5 wickets in 2 games @ 1.8 apiece. Can't wait till he plays at a higher level.

Are there many young developing leg spinners over there in New Zealand? Sounds like there's a lot! Maybe in a few years a new Warne could emerge from the Kiwi-squad? ( If Ish Sodhi isn't already the next Warne )
 
Jacques Voigt said:
Interesting! Here in South Africa we very rarely have protege spinners, I can't think of any I've seen / heard of, I probably don't count as one either because I've been bowling chinamen for about 2 years now :D

My 11 year old cousin is definitiely one, the first few leggies he bowled were amazing. He also got a 5-trick in a trial game! ( Every bowler was allowed 1 over and he finished with 5 wickets for no runs ) Every now and then he gets noticeable drift and dip, of course he lacks accuracy but that's understandable. His bowling average is quite ridiculous - 5 wickets in 2 games @ 1.8 apiece. Can't wait till he plays at a higher level.

Are there many young developing leg spinners over there in New Zealand? Sounds like there's a lot! Maybe in a few years a new Warne could emerge from the Kiwi-squad? ( If Ish Sodhi isn't already the next Warne )
Click to expand...

In NZ FC right now we have Ish Sodhi (Northern Districts), Terun Nethula (Central Districts) and Todd Astle (Canterbury). Nethula is steady at best, Astle has a good leg break as a base but really he is only a beginner and Ish is playing internationals because Bruce Martin (left arm spinner, Auckland) doesn't work hard enough. It's difficult here as cricket is treated as a hobby rather than a passion or a career option. My friends and I always say that some of the best NZ cricketers give up playing the game seriously before they're 25 which is well before a cricketer hits their prime. Here's hoping for Ish though, he'll develop along the Mushtaq Ahmed lines but the time he'll soon spend with Shane Warne could be the key to getting his thinking going.

There's the whole rugby thing here but it's always been like that (All Black Israel Dagg was a promising quick, bowled 145kph at 17), the problem now is time and work expectations. I always find it funny that a number of ex-cricketers that own businesses here bemoan the fact that young people don't make time for the game and yet insist their mostly teenage and early 20's employees work on weekends!
 
copthat1 said:
I struggle to give the ball more flight without slowing down my arm action.

How do I go about giving the ball a touch more air without slowing down my arm, to make sure I maintain revolutions, drift and dip?
Click to expand...


Try to focus on converting the arm speed into revs rather than velocity by making sure the fingers push round the side or over the top of the ball rather than through the middle. As you run up to bowl, try to think about leaving the ball behind in the air - so your arm whips through, and then the ball kinda floats out from behind it. I found thinking about that helped.
 
Jacques Voigt said:
The best place to look (in my mind) would be to look at the spot in the air where you want the ball to be. Determine which trajectory you want to bowl, look at the spot in the air where the ball is at it's highest and try to bowl the ball in that direction. That's why I look at the batsman's head, I want to bowl the ball just above his head and make it drift from his eyes to outside the off stump. It's a very unusual method though, but anything that works can be used.
Click to expand...



How can you look at the air? Air is invisible.
 
SLA said:
How can you look at the air? Air is invisible.
Click to expand...

By using my imagination :D In hawk-eye you can see the trajectory that the ball had, I paint a trajectory for myself in the air and focus on getting that trajectory. The trajectory is right above the batsman's head, so I look near his head and bowl at it. If I look at a spot I always sacrifice spin and flight, so now I focus more on the flight I want to give the ball than the spot. If I want the batsman to play a cover drive I know exactly how much flight to give the ball, and it works better for me than trying to hit a spot.
 
leftie600 said:
In NZ FC right now we have Ish Sodhi (Northern Districts), Terun Nethula (Central Districts) and Todd Astle (Canterbury). Nethula is steady at best, Astle has a good leg break as a base but really he is only a beginner and Ish is playing internationals because Bruce Martin (left arm spinner, Auckland) doesn't work hard enough. It's difficult here as cricket is treated as a hobby rather than a passion or a career option. My friends and I always say that some of the best NZ cricketers give up playing the game seriously before they're 25 which is well before a cricketer hits their prime. Here's hoping for Ish though, he'll develop along the Mushtaq Ahmed lines but the time he'll soon spend with Shane Warne could be the key to getting his thinking going.

There's the whole rugby thing here but it's always been like that (All Black Israel Dagg was a promising quick, bowled 145kph at 17), the problem now is time and work expectations. I always find it funny that a number of ex-cricketers that own businesses here bemoan the fact that young people don't make time for the game and yet insist their mostly teenage and early 20's employees work on weekends!
Click to expand...

Does Ish Sodhi really drift the ball 2 feet? A wicket he got against the West Indies (a left-hander) apparently drifted from the left side of the pitch to outside the off stump. Is that even possible, maybe there was just a strong wind? :confused:

Why do so many people start off as very promising players, only to stop playing because they don't think they'll make it? Every player in international cricket has just reasonable talent, it's hard work that gets them there! ( And of course, hard work that keeps them there )
 
Jacques Voigt said:
Does Ish Sodhi really drift the ball 2 feet? A wicket he got against the West Indies (a left-hander) apparently drifted from the left side of the pitch to outside the off stump. Is that even possible, maybe there was just a strong wind? :confused:

Why do so many people start off as very promising players, only to stop playing because they don't think they'll make it? Every player in international cricket has just reasonable talent, it's hard work that gets them there! ( And of course, hard work that keeps them there )
Click to expand...

Probably a slight breeze but yes it is possible to get the ball to drift a long way.

In NZ there is no real money plugging away as a FC player and nigh on impossible to hold down a part-time job while playing FC and trying to raise a family, this is why NZ cricket loses players to other sports and/or careers. Quite frankly the IPL $ saved NZ cricket from a slow drift away from the 'haves' in the international game.
 
leftie600 said:
Probably a slight breeze but yes it is possible to get the ball to drift a long way.

In NZ there is no real money plugging away as a FC player and nigh on impossible to hold down a part-time job while playing FC and trying to raise a family, this is why NZ cricket loses players to other sports and/or careers. Quite frankly the IPL $ saved NZ cricket from a slow drift away from the 'haves' in the international game.
Click to expand...

Oh I know it's possible to drift the ball a very long way, but not an impossible distance!

Sounds like things are going pretty bad over there. In South Africa the main problem is corruption and quotas. It's a wonder that we have such a good international team when all the good players get ignored.

Do you think it's a good idea to emigrate to Australia for a cricket career? The things I've heard of it suggest that they take their cricket very seriously with talent scouts and clinics around every corner.
 
Jacques Voigt said:
Oh I know it's possible to drift the ball a very long way, but not an impossible distance!

Sounds like things are going pretty bad over there. In South Africa the main problem is corruption and quotas. It's a wonder that we have such a good international team when all the good players get ignored.

Do you think it's a good idea to emigrate to Australia for a cricket career? The things I've heard of it suggest that they take their cricket very seriously with talent scouts and clinics around every corner.
Click to expand...

Possibly, I'd look to try and put together a few seasons with 200 overs and 50+ wickets for your club first though. Otherwise how do you know whether you're any good?

Cricket is not a sport played in the nets, and any mug can turn the ball square against an empty set of stumps.
 
SLA said:
Cricket is not a sport played in the nets, and any mug can turn the ball square against an empty set of stumps.
Click to expand...

Very true. This is an issue a lot of young spinners (especially wrist spinners) have. They think it's all about turning the ball big and work a lot in the nets on doing just that. In reality, your job as a wrist spinner is to take wickets. Turning the ball big is neither here or there. It's all about sussing out the batter, working out his weakness and exposing it. It's fairly commonplace to refer to Warne, but for obvious reason. He was such an effective bowler because he was always one step (if not two or three steps) ahead of the batter.

Actually, I'd be interested to get some feedback from people on here who can bowl a good googly/wrong 'un. It's a delivery I've really had some problems with. I've seen footage of me trying to bowl the wrong un and I just don't rotate the wrist enough. The aim should be to get the back of the hand facing the batter, but I only get the back the hand square, for a top spinner. It seems the more I try to get the back of the hand facing the batter, the more my whole technique flounders.

I suspect the only way to fix this is to just keep working on it, but I'd be interested to see if anyone has any tips on bowling the wrong un. My natural delivery is probably 80% top spin and 20% side spin. You would think a wrong un would be relatively easy to bowl from that sort of delivery, but it's not.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Interesting article here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...st-England-have-saved-Australian-cricket.html I like the point she makes about the role of terrestrial TV coverage.
Click to expand...

The ECB have got it all wrong by selling the rights to sat/cable TV. It's just so monumnetally short-sighted that it is untrue. Cricket cannot afford to lose kids to other sports, but that is just what it is doing. I remember the days when County Cricket was shown on terrestrial TV. You could even watch the likes of Glamorgan on Welsh TV!

That said, I do have Sky and watch cricket on that channel and I've seen some of the Big Bash. I was watching a young (20yo I think) leggie the other day called James Muirhead. Looked very impressive I must say.
 
Cleanprophet said:
The ECB have got it all wrong by selling the rights to sat/cable TV. It's just so monumnetally short-sighted that it is untrue. Cricket cannot afford to lose kids to other sports, but that is just what it is doing. I remember the days when County Cricket was shown on terrestrial TV. You could even watch the likes of Glamorgan on Welsh TV!

That said, I do have Sky and watch cricket on that channel and I've seen some of the Big Bash. I was watching a young (20yo I think) leggie the other day called James Muirhead. Looked very impressive I must say.
Click to expand...

I grew up watching test cricket, county cricket on the telly, and going out and practicing in the back garden. So did all my friends, thats how you got interested in the game.

The kids I coach cricket to are too young to remember 2005, and half have NEVER watched a professional cricket match, either live or on the tv. NEVER! Can you imagine how hard it is to coach cricket to kids that have never watched a match?

I don't care how much money Sky are throwing at the ECB, the number of cricketers in this country has decreased every year since it peaked after the 2005 Ashes and its their doing in my opinion.

Why can't they just sell some domestic cricket back to bbc/itv/c4? Its not like they even bother to show much of it. Its like they actually want people not to be able to see it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top