Darth Spin
Active Member
Yeah I plan to do that eventually. Will need to get some equipment and sort it out.
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Do you know what you're doing that's increasing your drift?
Spin Lizard
Active Member
I have a feeling that keeping the seam good creates something of a uniform 'roundness' to the spinning ball, and that there'd be some sort of physics behind increased drift due to this...spinning a coin compared to flipping it.
Regardless of the physics (or lack of) my other idea is that I'm gripping around the seam and trying to spin round the seam, so if the seam stays good, I'm spinning it well, giving me drift. If I'm spinning it well, I'm more confident on my next delivery to give it more of a rip, giving me more drift, and so on.
But I strongly suspect that scrambling the seam has an effect on the turbulence around the ball, and messes with the drift.
Regardless of the physics (or lack of) my other idea is that I'm gripping around the seam and trying to spin round the seam, so if the seam stays good, I'm spinning it well, giving me drift. If I'm spinning it well, I'm more confident on my next delivery to give it more of a rip, giving me more drift, and so on.
But I strongly suspect that scrambling the seam has an effect on the turbulence around the ball, and messes with the drift.
Spin Lizard
Active Member
I should have said 'rolling a coin compared to flipping it' as that's what I mean. But you probably already knew that.
While I'm bothering to type things: I can remember when I first started this spin caper, on slightly wet nights we'd sometimes use these old plastic compo's that originally had a raised 'seam' which had worn off from repeated use on bare concrete. I would get reverse drift with these things. It was with great delight that in reading up on the magnus effect, I discovered there is also a reverse magnus effect.
"I am glad to have been exposed to this point of view, and appreciate the time you took to express it."
While I'm bothering to type things: I can remember when I first started this spin caper, on slightly wet nights we'd sometimes use these old plastic compo's that originally had a raised 'seam' which had worn off from repeated use on bare concrete. I would get reverse drift with these things. It was with great delight that in reading up on the magnus effect, I discovered there is also a reverse magnus effect.
"I am glad to have been exposed to this point of view, and appreciate the time you took to express it."
Cleanprophet
Active Member
That sounds logical.
One thing that's been said about drift is that a more round arm action creates more drift. I discovered something about my bowling that was linked to this. With my take back, my hand past by my thigh and then moved behind my hip/back, before coming back into line for the release of the ball. Looking at the bowling of someone like Warne, I noticed that their arm position was on the same line all the way. The hand past by the thigh and stayed on that line, outside the line of the body. Effectively, it is like creating a circle that is parallel with the bowler rather than a circle that leans away from the bowler - if that makes sense.
Darth Spin
Active Member
I have no idea, mate. I don't even know if it's true and retain a healthy degree of scepticism. When one batsman mentioned it I didn't give it much thought but then three or four did so maybe there's something in it. There's nothing I've really changed about my bowling other than trying to mix up side spin and top spin more.
There was one wrong un in particular which drifted quite dramatically away from a right hander, pitched a foot or two outside off, spun and bounced sharply and hit his gloves as he tried to block it. The wicket keeper took the catch and said the seam position was bang on, for what it's worth.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Just watching the cricket highlights - loved the Imran Tahir wicket of McCullum, looked as though he and the keeper new McCullum would come racing down the wicket and that planned weeks in advance. So bloody wide and gone - stumped!
Cleanprophet
Active Member
Absolutely right Cleanprophet, it is always best to get advice.
For a Grade 1 strain, I would always consider approximately 3 week rest. This does not, of course, mean no mobility and it is a good idea to keep it 'rolling' over with as full a range of motion as you can muster without pain.
The body is extremely good at telling us what we need to know and we ignore it at our peril!
Warming up is essential but if the issue returns it may be mechanical. If so, let me have a video and I will have a look.
Take care!
Just a little bit of an update and another question or two.
It's 4 weeks tomorrow since I last bowled flat out. I can now rotate the arm over several times without pain, but it's not very fast. There is a little feeling of tightness in the shoulder and a slight bit of discomfort, but nothing I'd describe as painful.
I've noticed that my shoulder blade has felt a bit uncomfortable in the last week. It's been pretty much 4 weeks since I used my arm properly, so I'm conscious of using the shoulder and pushing it as much as I can. I've used a resistance trainer and can do plenty of exercises below the shoulder, without any pain or discomfort (side shoulder excercises, arm curls etc). Perhaps it is these exercises that is causing a bit of discomfort in the shoulder blade as it's the first real workout this part of the body has had in 3-4 weeks?
Should I try as many exercises as I can on that front shoulder area? I assume that after 4 weeks the muscle will start to weaken a bit and so I need to prevent that and retain as much movement as possible.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
I may well do that as soon as I am able to bowl something like normal. At the moment, I'm not trying to rotate my arm at full bowling speed. Once I am doing that, I will see if there is still any discomfort or pain and video my action if there is.
Right now, when I rotate my arm I feel a little bit of weakness in that front part of the rotator cuff region, where I've had the vast majority of discomfort and pain in the last few weeks. It feels like if I tried to bowl at full speed I could do some damage to myself.
How does this area feel when you perform press ups?
Cleanprophet
Active Member
No problems at all with press ups. I seem to have full and normal movement/strength in about 300 degrees of rotation. It's just that last bit of rotation just before I would release the ball, when my arm is just behind me, that causes a little bit of discomfort.
I was doing some batting earlier in the week and the only time I felt any discomfort was when I put my helmet on. I was pulling the chin strap down under my chin and felt a little reaction in the front of the shoulder. Other than that, the only issue is that mentioned above.
One exercise I've been doing and find helpful, is to have my arm by my side and lift it away from my side to about shoulder height. Then rotate the shoulder a little bit, making small circles. Then, gradually, I lift the arm above shoulder height and rotate in bigger circles from there - almost like a round-arm bowler.
EDIT: I've been down to the nets today and had my first bowl in 4 weeks. I was able to rotate my arm without pain, so decided to try and bowl at a really easy relaxed pace. That went well and so I upped the effort a bit. In the end, I was probably bowling at about 60%-70% pace and was getting no pain or discomfort from doing that. Within 15mins of stopping, my shoulder felt a bit stiff, but I'm thinking that after not bowling for a month that is to be expected?
Last edited:
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Whoa Sri-Lanka today - that Herath bloke - pretty amazing!
jagjit singh
New Member
hello guys,i was a leg spinner,i am 22 now,i was a very good bowler,a kind of natural spinner you can say in the past,but at the age of 18 i unknowingly developed a wrong action,practiced a lot and got used to that action and that ruined my bowling.now the condition is very bad i cannot even release the ball properly,all balls go wide outside the leg stump,when i try to pitch in the off side i feels its just like a formality i am doing,no control over the ball,release,flight etc.
i tried to ball like a fast bowler,holding the ball straight, just to check my if my line is working well but still the same problem no control over the release goes outside of leg stump.i am demotivated very badly but still not loosing hope.any help will be appreciated.thanks
i tried to ball like a fast bowler,holding the ball straight, just to check my if my line is working well but still the same problem no control over the release goes outside of leg stump.i am demotivated very badly but still not loosing hope.any help will be appreciated.thanks
Spin Lizard
Active Member
Bowl out in the middle on your own, no batsman. Take six balls out, bowl them, fetch. Do this for hours, days, weeks, months.
When you bowl a good one, remember what it feels like.
When you bowl a good one, remember what it feels like.
jagjit singh
New Member
thank you spin lizard,but i completely feel demotivated to ball leg spin now,Presently i have been bowling straight ones with little turn just like carrom ball concentrating mostly in line,because when i bowl carrom ball action the ball releases properly(1-2 balls every 6 balls),which gives me some confidence i am thinking to continue like this for couple of months and then go to leg spin back.This thing might improve my action and might help me when i will be back to leg spin.so experimenting with myself there.i am not giving up so easily...!
It helps if you stick up a net behind the stumps and a traffic cone where the batsman would be standing.
jagjit singh
New Member
Darth Spin
Active Member
I would go back to basics. Bowl leg breaks underarm over short distances. Then round arm over short distances. Then, eventually, overarm over short distances before finally trying it out over 22 yards.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
This is exactly what I was going to suggest. I think it would be a great idea to bowl from about halfway down the pitch. Underarm is a good thing to try too, but I would say bowling over the short distance is the thing most likely to help.
To an extent, it sounds a bit like the yips. The first team captain at my club is a sports psychologist who specialises in the yips. He would love to get you into the nets to work with you
.In a way, the yips is a catch-all term for a bowler who is having a struggle with confidence. Leg-spin is the one type of bowling where a bout of low confidence is most likely to happen. If you are struggling for confidence and lacking motivation, you are going to really struggle to overcome the problem. Dave and I mentioned something a few pages back about the mentality of a leg-spinner. You have to enjoy the challenge of leg-spin, good and bad. This falls into the bad category. All the same, you have to approach this problem as a challenge that you are keen to meet and beat. The key is to avoid situations were you feel demoralised. To do that, you have to set yourself small, reachable targets and do not expect too much. This is why bowling over a short distance is great in the first step back to being a good leg-spinner.
Focus on getting the wrist action right, with the ball coming out correctly. Then do that overarm from about 12-15 yards from the stumps. Use a couple of stumps on the floor as a target area and aim to hit that target as often as possible. Once you are hitting the target most of the time, move back a couple of yards and so on.
To sum up, I'd do everything Darth Spin says and ensure you don't expect too much from yourself. If you keep thinking about when you used to bowl leg-spin much better, when you were 17, 18, then you will always put pressure on yourself and that will not help. I've had a shoulder injury in the last month or so and have only just returned to bowling. Initially, for some reason, I found the ball coming out with top-spin and no side-spin at all. I had no idea why I was bowling top-spinners, but set about fixing it. You see, that's the other thing. You need to learn how to coach yourself. That comes with time, but it is vital. I was able to work out why I wasn't get any side-spin and was able to start putting that right.
Last edited: