Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[jagjit singh]

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. I think it would be a great idea to bowl from about halfway down the pitch. Underarm is a good thing to try too, but I would say bowling over the short distance is the thing most likely to help.

To an extent, it sounds a bit like the yips. The first team captain at my club is a sports psychologist who specialises in the yips. He would love to get you into the nets to work with you .

In a way, the yips is a catch-all term for a bowler who is having a struggle with confidence. Leg-spin is the one type of bowling where a bout of low confidence is most likely to happen. If you are struggling for confidence and lacking motivation, you are going to really struggle to overcome the problem. Dave and I mentioned something a few pages back about the mentality of a leg-spinner. You have to enjoy the challenge of leg-spin, good and bad. This falls into the bad category. All the same, you have to approach this problem as a challenge that you are keen to meet and beat. The key is to avoid situations were you feel demoralised. To do that, you have to set yourself small, reachable targets and do not expect too much. This is why bowling over a short distance is great in the first step back to being a good leg-spinner.

Focus on getting the wrist action right, with the ball coming out correctly. Then do that overarm from about 12-15 yards from the stumps. Use a couple of stumps on the floor as a target area and aim to hit that target as often as possible. Once you are hitting the target most of the time, move back a couple of yards and so on.

To sum up, I'd do everything Darth Spin says and ensure you don't expect too much from yourself. If you keep thinking about when you used to bowl leg-spin much better, when you were 17, 18, then you will always put pressure on yourself and that will not help. I've had a shoulder injury in the last month or so and have only just returned to bowling. Initially, for some reason, I found the ball coming out with top-spin and no side-spin at all. I had no idea why I was bowling top-spinners, but set about fixing it. You see, that's the other thing. You need to learn how to coach yourself. That comes with time, but it is vital. I was able to work out why I wasn't get any side-spin and was able to start putting that right.

thanks Darth and Cleanprophet, i really like that advice and it makes more sense,maybe the problem might not be the problem,maybe my releasing be the problem, bowling underarm will definitely help me,yes you are right Cleanprophet due to my past the expectations from myself is high,yes setting small goals will be good.i am very exited to try the underarm thing tomorrow.i will let you know results as i progress.thank you for inspiring and guiding me.

 

[Darth Spin]

For me every time I bowl it's like I'm learning the leg break almost from scratch. But the hours of practice and repetition means that each time I bowl it takes less time for my leg break to get going properly. It's not like this with the wrong un, I can step up and bowl it on line and length almost straight away. But the leg break is a constant challenge.

I had a good practice session tonight, with a looser grip I found I could get a lot more side spin. Then I kind of lost it a bit and bowled too many with topspin, before getting it back again.

And with the last half hour I now practice the flipper and am finally getting the ball to come out with a straighter seam now and again. A couple of genuine backspinning flippers came out and the others still break a little from off to leg.

Anyway going back J Singh's problem, if you can't bowl your leg break over 22 yards you need to regress, start with the basics and practice for hours to get it going again. Eventually it should come and at 22 years of age there is loads of time.

 

[SLA]

For me every time I bowl it's like I'm learning the leg break almost from scratch. But the hours of practice and repetition means that each time I bowl it takes less time for my leg break to get going properly. It's not like this with the wrong un, I can step up and bowl it on line and length almost straight away. But the leg break is a constant challenge.

I had a good practice session tonight, with a looser grip I found I could get a lot more side spin. Then I kind of lost it a bit and bowled too many with topspin, before getting it back again.

And with the last half hour I now practice the flipper and am finally getting the ball to come out with a straighter seam now and again. A couple of genuine backspinning flippers came out and the others still break a little from off to leg.

Anyway going back J Singh's problem, if you can't bowl your leg break over 22 yards you need to regress, start with the basics and practice for hours to get it going again. Eventually it should come and at 22 years of age there is loads of time.

With all due respect, if you can't bowl the legbreak, why are you even trying the flipper?

The flipper is a very advanced and subtle variation, its not really either necessary or useful unless you're playing at professional or semi-professional level.

Obviously if you're just bowling in your back garden for fun all this is irrelevant. But if you're actually trying to bowl in matches and get batsmen out you need to focus on what works.

 

[The Edge Of Willow]

I would go back to basics. Bowl leg breaks underarm over short distances. Then round arm over short distances. Then, eventually, overarm over short distances before finally trying it out over 22 yards.

I think that actually depends on circumstances. Sometimes the problem is learning the right movements to bowl at speed over 22 yards. I've been able to to bowl leg bread of short distances, and slowly over 22 yards, for years. Yet, I've had real problems bowling at a decent speed, spinning it and being accurate during that time. Only recently, when I've stated to really concentrate on developing an action at full pace over 22 yards, have I made improvement of note.

Certainly, it would be worthwhile he go right back to check whether he still had the basic idea of how to do it, but if he can, there may be limited value practicing it at the expense of his full action. If his problems are caused by something he does trying to bowl full tilt, it may be more productive to address that. This is not to say that, at some point, he should not slow down at some pointing. Doing so can be helpful in diagnosing what you body is doing and devloping new movements. Rather, it is to suggest that when he does slow down, it should be related to his action and the problems it has.

If you know, for example, that your arm is coming over before you start rotating your hip, causing you to spray it down leg side, then you know the movement you are trying to develop in your action. On the other hand, if you just go back to basics and slow down, you aren't necessarily putting that work to devloping the movement you need in your full action. Just "going back to basics" might work, if you are lucky enough to have it reset the problem with your action. The problem is that doesn't always happen. Sometimes (and just about all the time in my case) the movement that you do right when bowling at half measure doesn't transfer to the full action. I think it is better that you know your action and address that. It can avoid a useless cycle of flipping between "going back to basics" and a full action which does not improve.

 

[Cleanprophet]

With all due respect, if you can't bowl the legbreak, why are you even trying the flipper?

To be fair, he says that he does bowl a legbreak but it doesn't come as naturally as the wrong un. Nothing wrong with that at all. If you've seen any of the current World Cup T20, you will see many "leg spinners" who don't really bowl a leg-spinner. Mushtaq Ahmed was a wrong un bowler who bowled a leg spinner as his variation. Whatever works for you, works for you.

You may well say that he should focus on mastering the leg-spinner before working on the flipper, but I dont' think there's much wrong in trying a few flippers after spending a good amount of time on the leg-spinner. They're such different deliveries that there's no problem with it. If you are trying to bowl a wrong un before you have a very good leg-spinner, then that would be a mistake.

I had a good practice session tonight, with a looser grip I found I could get a lot more side spin. Then I kind of lost it a bit and bowled too many with topspin, before getting it back again.

I have a very loose grip. It's why I found the wrong un such a difficult ball to bowl. But a looser grip does help you get lots of revs on the ball because you get maximum leverage with the fingers. Effectively, a wrist spinner imparts finger spin on the ball as the primal spin and the wrist flick magnifies that massively. The more action you can get on the ball with the fingers, the more revs your wrist flick produces. Of course, a looser grip is harder to control and makes it harder to bowl top spinners and wrong uns.

 

[SLA]

To be fair, he says that he does bowl a legbreak but it doesn't come as naturally as the wrong un. Nothing wrong with that at all. If you've seen any of the current World Cup T20, you will see many "leg spinners" who don't really bowl a leg-spinner. Mushtaq Ahmed was a wrong un bowler who bowled a leg spinner as his variation. Whatever works for you, works for you.

You may well say that he should focus on mastering the leg-spinner before working on the flipper, but I dont' think there's much wrong in trying a few flippers after spending a good amount of time on the leg-spinner. They're such different deliveries that there's no problem with it. If you are trying to bowl a wrong un before you have a very good leg-spinner, then that would be a mistake.

A wrongun is far more likely to be effective against an amateur cricket than a flipper. Flippers only really become effective after a series of perfectly pitched topspinners and legbreaks when the batsman begins to anticipate the dip and bounce and adjust his game plan accordingly.

If you're not playing at a level where a) you're good enough to bowl 12 straight perfectly pitched leg breaks, googlies or topspinners to set up your flipper, or b) the batsmen are not advanced enough to be able to recognise this and adjust to it, then the flipper is a waste of time, its just a straight delivery to whack to the boundary, "thanks for the shit ball", says the batsman.

The wrongun is the most effective variation for all spinners at all levels between park level and semi-professional level cricket. Below that level you shouldn't bother with variations, just bowl full and straight with enough side spin to beat the bat and hit the stumps, above that level, the batsmen will be good enough to pick it and adjust, so you need to plan with a bit more subtlety.

 

[Cleanprophet]

A wrongun is far more likely to be effective against an amateur cricket than a flipper. Flippers only really become effective after a series of perfectly pitched topspinners and legbreaks when the batsman begins to anticipate the dip and bounce and adjust his game plan accordingly.

If you're not playing at a level where a) you're good enough to bowl 12 straight perfectly pitched leg breaks, googlies or topspinners to set up your flipper, or b) the batsmen are not advanced enough to be able to recognise this and adjust to it, then the flipper is a waste of time, its just a straight delivery to whack to the boundary, "thanks for the shit ball", says the batsman.

The wrongun is the most effective variation for all spinners at all levels between park level and semi-professional level cricket. Below that level you shouldn't bother with variations, just bowl full and straight with enough side spin to beat the bat and hit the stumps, above that level, the batsmen will be good enough to pick it and adjust, so you need to plan with a bit more subtlety.

Whilst all that is true, I wouldn't dissuade anyone from working on the flipper. Without doubt, it should be something tried for a bit of fun at the end of practice and not something that should be the focus of training. It's always good for a spin bowler to try a few different things to keep himself motivated and to understand as much as possible about the art of spin.

 

[Spin Lizard]

Great post, SLA. I think chasing for every variation under the sun is fool's gold. Bowl your stock ball until you can do it blindfolded (well...). Get more revs on it, get more dip and movement. Get more accuracy (but not at expense of spin). If you can bowl your stock ball brilliantly, then 'natural variation' comes into play in your favour. A little bit more sidespin here, or topspin there, or pitch assistance...all whilst bowling the 'same' ball, with the 'same' action. Killer. I'm a fan of Dan Vettori, if you couldn't tell from the avatar.

Having said all that, I'm still chasing the doosra...

I agree with The Edge Of Willow also, I'm not sure how much value there is in underarm bowling. Spin bowling is done with the whole body in concert, not just with the arm and wrist/fingers. I much prefer going back to one-step bowling over a full pitch length (maybe 3/4s) to sort out any problems, then gradually adding steps until you have a full run back. Spin it hand to hand to sort grips/wrist positions.

That's just me and my $0.02 though. Your miles may vary.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Great post, SLA. I think chasing for every variation under the sun is fool's gold.

In fairness to Darth Spin, he is only trying to bowl the flipper and no more. If he was trying to bowl all kinds of variations, there's no chance of him becoming a useful bowler. There are examples of spinners who bowl all kinds of things (usually Asian and often Sri Lankan) and they generally fail to last the pace. Herath bowled brilliantly against the Kiwi's the other day and he is very much of the Vettori type. That said, he got a bit of a tough time today. The very best are the likes of Ajmal and Narine (in T20 that is) because they have the ability to land the ball on a line and length every time, but also have the ball that goes the other way. They, pretty much, have no more than 3 or 4 variations and have mastered them all.

I remember seeing lots of people asking why Swann doesn't develop a variation of why Panesar hasn't any more than the two variations. The reality is, they don't really need them because bowling spin is all about being one step ahead of the batter and variation comes in the shape of flight and pace. I only bowl the off-break flipper and not really the back-spinning flipper and I do that because it's the only version of the wrong un I can bowl. Other than that, I bowl the leg-spinner and top-spinner and that's it.

As for Darth Spin. He should work as hard as he can on getting a reliable leg spinner that he can land from ball one. If he has a very good wrong un and is working on the leggie, I see no problem in having a crack at the flipper. Even if it is to give more of an understanding of how pace and flight can be used with more conventional deliveries. In my experience of the flipper, yes a club cricketer will just hit it and see it as an easy scoring shot but that is because most club cricketers cannot bat properly. I only ever tried my flipper against lower order batters who were batting quite defensively and on the backfoot. It's very wrong to say it is only useful against very good batters. I wouldn't bother bowling it to your typical club slogger (of which, there are many), but as I say, there are times I've bowled against batters who are trying to bat out a draw and the quicker, flatter and straighter one is very effective. You can do that with your leggie or with a flipper (in my opinion, the flipper is better when bowled properly).

 

[Darth Spin]

I think you're maybe misinterpreting what I'm saying, SLA. I'm not saying I can't bowl a leg break, because I can and it got me most of my wickets last summer. What I'm saying is it takes me an over or so to find my rhythm. I thought that was normal for a wrist spinner? That I find it a constant challenge to refine it and get it exactly how I want it. When I am bowling well I can put it on the spot no bother. Not 12 balls out of 12 but not too far off. The leg break is the ball I practice the most. Having learned it as my stock ball after about 8-10 months I started to learn the wrong un as I found it more natural to bowl than a top spinner. Having acquired the wrong un I perhaps over practiced it but never neglected my leg break. During that whole time I was also doing the flipper click drill hand to hand until I found I could generate revs easily and then tried to bowl a few. They were all over the shop at first but now it has come together. I bowled them last season and took two wickets with them, including bowling a guy, so I disagree that it has no place in club cricket. I probably bowled about 30-40 flippers last summer and one was hit for four. It's a fantastic delivery at any level and I don't see what's wrong with exploring major variations.

We are all different and my strengths are 45 degree leg breaks, wrong uns (big and small) and an evolving flipper. I don't see why I should compromise that just because it's not the done thing. It worked for me last season.

 

[Darth Spin]

I think that actually depends on circumstances. Sometimes the problem is learning the right movements to bowl at speed over 22 yards. I've been able to to bowl leg bread of short distances, and slowly over 22 yards, for years. Yet, I've had real problems bowling at a decent speed, spinning it and being accurate during that time. Only recently, when I've stated to really concentrate on developing an action at full pace over 22 yards, have I made improvement of note.

Certainly, it would be worthwhile he go right back to check whether he still had the basic idea of how to do it, but if he can, there may be limited value practicing it at the expense of his full action. If his problems are caused by something he does trying to bowl full tilt, it may be more productive to address that. This is not to say that, at some point, he should not slow down at some pointing. Doing so can be helpful in diagnosing what you body is doing and devloping new movements. Rather, it is to suggest that when he does slow down, it should be related to his action and the problems it has.

If you know, for example, that your arm is coming over before you start rotating your hip, causing you to spray it down leg side, then you know the movement you are trying to develop in your action. On the other hand, if you just go back to basics and slow down, you aren't necessarily putting that work to devloping the movement you need in your full action. Just "going back to basics" might work, if you are lucky enough to have it reset the problem with your action. The problem is that doesn't always happen. Sometimes (and just about all the time in my case) the movement that you do right when bowling at half measure doesn't transfer to the full action. I think it is better that you know your action and address that. It can avoid a useless cycle of flipping between "going back to basics" and a full action which does not improve.

Sure, you have to jump in the deep end eventually. But if you can't get the leg break going at all it makes sense to regress. I am just parroting Philpott again though, but I firmly believe in the principles espoused in his book. It's a work of genius. The eights stages of spin makes something so difficult logical. I am always going back through the early stages myself. Every night flicking the ball hand to hand, then out there practicing. Combing both to be as good as possible and to learn quicker, instead of doing just one or the other. All practice is good practice and if you're having trouble with your stock ball then even more so. At the age of 22 he has so much time to try different things and get to the root of his problem.

 

[Darth Spin]

I do agree, though, that it may be worth me forgetting about the wrong and flipper for a while. But then I can't help myself. What's more fun than bowling someone middle peg with a wrong un after a series of leg breaks? Nothing, in my view.

 

[Spin Lizard]

HE'S GOT HIM! YESSSSSSS!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

As above all sound advice, I would suggest using the stand start drill as well

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I do agree, though, that it may be worth me forgetting about the wrong and flipper for a while. But then I can't help myself. What's more fun than bowling someone middle peg with a wrong un after a series of leg breaks? Nothing, in my view.

I've been working with the Top-Spinner and that's pretty devastating following a series of Leg Breaks. But, I can't get the wrist round anymore to pull off a Wrong Un, but can sense that with a little work I could get it, but I just don't want to go through the googly syndrome again, so I'm happy to work with a few deliveries.

 

[Darth Spin]

I've been working with the Top-Spinner and that's pretty devastating following a series of Leg Breaks. But, I can't get the wrist round anymore to pull off a Wrong Un, but can sense that with a little work I could get it, but I just don't want to go through the googly syndrome again, so I'm happy to work with a few deliveries.

Probably not worth going for the wrong un after the pain you've been through.

Anyway for SLA and Cleanprophet's benefit I will re-post some vids of my bowling. As usual all critical comment is welcome and encouraged! A bit hard to pick up the flight of the ball with the low res but you can see the odd ball and from where they end up after rebounding off the back net can see that they are leg breaks turning away. Some good deliveries, some crap ones, all Darth Spin (and no flippers!).

Sorry about the bad lighting on this one, but I like some of the leg breaks.


Me vs one of our first team batsmen (he is an all rounder really). He chips the first ball to short extra cover. Is generally in trouble early on. There is one edge to slip but it's quite hard to pick up on the vid. But I don't bowl him, sadly.



Part 2 of me vs him.



A couple of leg breaks. The second one is about as much turn as I can get normally, with the odd freak ball turning more.



And this is the best vid I have of me "going around the loop". The sequence is leggie, top spinner (success), wrong un (not bad), leggie, top spinner (massive fail), wrong un (success).



All of those vids are about a year old but still a fairly accurate depiction of where I'm at with my bolwing. Expect for the flipper, which is yet to be caught on film. I will try and record more footage soon but it's hard because the battery on my phone is feeble.

 

[Darth Spin]

If they are jerky trying lowering the settings to 240p or 144p.

 

[leftie600]

All of those vids are about a year old but still a fairly accurate depiction of where I'm at with my bolwing. Expect for the flipper, which is yet to be caught on film. I will try and record more footage soon but it's hard because the battery on my phone is feeble.

Keeping it simple, try hard, very hard to keep your follow through as consistent as you can and 'at' your target. The deliveries that went off target landed exactly where your follow through indicated they would.

Leg spin generally is about balancing the twisting (pivot) that gives you extra revs and the forward momentum at your target (the follow through), if the pivot isn't that effective you lose spin and if the follow through isn't right you lose pace and accuracy.

Better than me at the moment though, season's over

 

[leftie600]

Well the season is over which means I expect my injuries to heal in time for me to play in the non-existent mid-winter cricket league. Not a memorable season due to a busted finger before Xmas and a heel injury in Feb (pivot foot) which won't go away. 13 wickets at 22 is pretty poor considering the last few years but at the end of the day I didn't bowl that much, best game was 11 overs, 6 runs for 2 wickets and I can safely say that everything was on song that day but unfortunately friends weddings meant no more cricket for me after that. Have tentatively high hopes for next season as I'll have a bit of input into how preseason is planned which will hopefully mean I'll get some quality preparation rather than being a glorified bowling machine for 2 months.

The protege's season ended with a whimper but it wasn't that bad despite not being bowled when he played for the 1sts, 31 wickets at 15 with his best innings performance of 8 wickets for 61 runs showed that his improvement hasn't slowed. He's already had feelers from other clubs 1st XIs but he has a 1st spot at our club next season if he wants it, either way I'm happy to keep mentoring him as the world needs more legspin knowledge out there (even if it is from a fool like me!). This is good time to be on the rise as well, the Wellington FC selectors have hinted that they are looking for a clean out of the senior players and will probably turn to a youthful squad. This doesn't mean he'll make it as there's some very good players ahead of him but maybe a Wellington development XI next year if he makes a blistering start to the season.

For SLOB I picked up a copy of The Bowlers Art at the Basin test vs India for $2 and will endeavour to locate a camera to record an OBS (with suitably grainy footage) and claim the $0.15 on offer from macca.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Keeping it simple, try hard, very hard to keep your follow through as consistent as you can and 'at' your target. The deliveries that went off target landed exactly where your follow through indicated they would.

I noticed the follow through wasn't always consistent. The right arm gets into a bit of a strange position just after the ball is released. It didn't do that with every delivery, so that is a sure fire sign of a little bit of an issue. It is spot on to suggest a focus on getting the consistent follow through. When I've looked back at footage of myself bowling, I've seen that I have a very mechanical action that repeats very well. The variation (ie poor delivery) comes when I try to spin it hard, too hard, and that shows up in the follow through as my balance is lost a touch. If a bowler has a nice, balanced and conistent follow through, chances are he has good control of line and length.

Well the season is over which means I expect my injuries to heal in time for me to play in the non-existent mid-winter cricket league. Not a memorable season due to a busted finger before Xmas and a heel injury in Feb (pivot foot) which won't go away. 13 wickets at 22 is pretty poor considering the last few years but at the end of the day I didn't bowl that much, best game was 11 overs, 6 runs for 2 wickets and I can safely say that everything was on song that day but unfortunately friends weddings meant no more cricket for me after that. Have tentatively high hopes for next season as I'll have a bit of input into how preseason is planned which will hopefully mean I'll get some quality preparation rather than being a glorified bowling machine for 2 months.

The protege's season ended with a whimper but it wasn't that bad despite not being bowled when he played for the 1sts, 31 wickets at 15 with his best innings performance of 8 wickets for 61 runs showed that his improvement hasn't slowed. He's already had feelers from other clubs 1st XIs but he has a 1st spot at our club next season if he wants it, either way I'm happy to keep mentoring him as the world needs more legspin knowledge out there (even if it is from a fool like me!). This is good time to be on the rise as well, the Wellington FC selectors have hinted that they are looking for a clean out of the senior players and will probably turn to a youthful squad. This doesn't mean he'll make it as there's some very good players ahead of him but maybe a Wellington development XI next year if he makes a blistering start to the season.

For SLOB I picked up a copy of The Bowlers Art at the Basin test vs India for $2 and will endeavour to locate a camera to record an OBS (with suitably grainy footage) and claim the $0.15 on offer from macca.

The season is just about to start for me. We've got a friendly game next weekend to start things off. I've been unfortunate enough to go into this stage of the pre-season with a dodgy shoulder. Thankfully, I had a net session on Tuesday where I bowled for the best part of an hour and bowled at 100% (although the bloody nets have yet to be cleaned up so the ball was skidding on off the 'all-weather' surface - so it was tricky to get much spin on the ball and, subsequently, difficult to judge how the ball was coming out). I can't wait to get back on a proper grass pitch.

I get what you mean about being a "glorified bowling machine". Bowling spin in the nets can be a real pain in the backside. I've seen our club pro getting really frustrated in the nets as fairly average bats take him on. A huge part of bowling spin is applying pressure on the batter and you can't do that in the nets. Quite the opposite in fact. The quicker bowlers can always beat the batter for pace, but there's nothing to stop the batter lining you up and getting out the slog. It's not bad practice for when you face a slogger, but the nets are often not a great place for the spinner.

Sounds like that young lad had a decent season even with a slow end to it. It's not great for him that he played for the 1st team and didn't get a bowl. That could encourage him away to another team, but I'm sure he will get reassurance of regular playing time in the 1st team at your club next season.

Looking forward to that OBS footage