Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

What do you reckon then - what are the main faults that reduce spin? Do you not think that a technically correct whole action which might include the 180 rotation doesn't equate to a potentially better outcome? I always think of it in terms of using a whip, which starts off with a good solid base and ends up with all the energy going through to the crack at the end. I'm sure someone who is an expert with a whip would be far more accurate and powerful because of a combination of similar attributes, which are whole action/whole body?
I pretty much agree with that idea. If you look at quicks, spinners and even dibbly dobblies the best exponents always have a loose grip, limber wrist and a relaxed natural action.

Main faults are usually the opposite of that, tight grip, stiff wrist and a rigid action. Most of these come from people doing their best to apply what they've been told or seen but not quite getting there.

Still, that's me, there's people here who I'm sure have different ideas.
 
I had a good long go at bowling with the sort of 90 degree rotation that Yasir uses and found it a bit tricky. I'll stick to what I normally do, which is probably about a 150 degree rotation.

Without question, a full 180 degree rotation isn't needed to get big revs on the ball. For many people, it helps. But a lot depends on arm speed but also how quick you flick your fingers/wrist. You only need to watch cricket on TV and see spinners rotate at all varying degrees between 90 and 180. Ultimately, it all depends on what works for you. I never focused on rotating as much as I do, it just happened naturally as I bowled.
I agree.

To me the 180 degrees should be used to help people realise the sensation of a pivot but in the end you should only settle on it if that's your thing.
 
When I come off my normal run up, I'm bowling okay but I have a problem with not spinning the ball up and dropping short.

However, when I bowl off no steps (just starting with my feet in position, bowling and following through) the ball spins up out of my hand, lands full with flight, turns and drifts more than off my regular runup.

Can anyone help me with what this indicates? A problem with my follow through in my full run up compared to just bowling off no steps? Thanks for any help.
 
When I come off my normal run up, I'm bowling okay but I have a problem with not spinning the ball up and dropping short.

However, when I bowl off no steps (just starting with my feet in position, bowling and following through) the ball spins up out of my hand, lands full with flight, turns and drifts more than off my regular runup.

Can anyone help me with what this indicates? A problem with my follow through in my full run up compared to just bowling off no steps? Thanks for any help.

Generally speaking, if the ball is not spinning up out of the hand and is landing short it is because you are dragging the ball down a little bit. Not enough to drag it wide, but enough to drag it short.

In my experience, it is quite difficult to help people spin the ball up out of the hand. Essentially, you just need to release the ball a fraction earlier. If you are doing it fine from a standing start but not after a run up, then it may well be that your arm is moving quicker than your wrist. Your arm is in the release position but your wrist isn't. Just focus on spinning those fingers and flicking the wrist nice and quickly.
 
I agree.

To me the 180 degrees should be used to help people realise the sensation of a pivot but in the end you should only settle on it if that's your thing.
Yeah I'm not sure that it works all the time for everyone, I'm sure there are people that over-rotate and under-rotate and they get on fine and find a method that works for them, but I guess if people are having difficulties and whatever they try - they should at least explore that as an avenue of resolving their issues?
 
Yeah I'm not sure that it works all the time for everyone, I'm sure there are people that over-rotate and under-rotate and they get on fine and find a method that works for them, but I guess if people are having difficulties and whatever they try - they should at least explore that as an avenue of resolving their issues?
who df did u guys stretch this thread for 130 pages purely talking about wrist spin remarkable, if anyone needs to improve on there wrist spin bowling reading this thread would be very helpful I will recommend this to my friends m8.
 
who df did u guys stretch this thread for 130 pages purely talking about wrist spin remarkable, if anyone needs to improve on there wrist spin bowling reading this thread would be very helpful I will recommend this to my friends m8.
This is only a small section of it! I think this threads been restarted twice before having gone on for 100 pages previously! Yeah - please tell as many people as you can, it'll be great to have new input!
 
who df did u guys stretch this thread for 130 pages purely talking about wrist spin remarkable, if anyone needs to improve on there wrist spin bowling reading this thread would be very helpful I will recommend this to my friends m8.
Your blokes did well against the Pommies, in the first of the one day matches I saw tonight. I reckon it'll get tougher, but your captains a good player and you've got some really good batsmen as well, it'll be a tough series for us.
 
I think he's been bowling this for a long time, unless he's adapted his grip for the "reverse carrom ball"

That googly isn't a "typical googly" as the clueless commentator stated, it's flicked from the middle finger like the ball you described. Maybe he bowls this so that the batsman thinks he's bowling a surprise leg break, only to be fooled by the double bluff? It's basically the same situation as a leg spin bowler bowling a doosra.

Indeed. This was Jack Iverson's stock delivery. From my limited experienced attempting to bowl it, I would say it's like a googly but it comes out of the hand more smoothly and with less need for shoulder contortion. Batsmen were convinced he was bowling legbreaks. I wish we had footage of him - I don't know how he achieved great spin using his grip, but there can be no doubt of his effectiveness.
 
180 degree pivot is not necessary, you only need enough of a pivot to add or aid in putting spin on the ball. In terms of arm speed Yasir is applying similar techniques to Qadir and Mushtaq. Personally I think the 180 degree pivot is over taught and recommended by coaches, there's usually other reasons why a developing spinner doesn't get the spin they should.
I've struggled to make a pivot natural.

Bowling round-arm, the benefits of pivoting couldn't be clearer. Imagine a discus thrower not pivoting!

Bowling at 12 o'clock, ball release above the front foot, I haven't yet found them.
 
I've struggled to make a pivot natural.

Bowling round-arm, the benefits of pivoting couldn't be clearer. Imagine a discus thrower not pivoting!

Bowling at 12 o'clock, ball release above the front foot, I haven't yet found them.
Exactly, bowl with a 180 degree+ pivot and the Olympics beckon.
 
For me England,Australia Soth africain etc are heaven for cricket so i had some questions especially about England cricket .
Do you have public nets or public pitches that are maintained by the council that are free to access?
In your clubs at u16 u14 etc levels are there first 11, second 11 ? Depending on their talent and capacities ?
 
For me England,Australia Soth africain etc are heaven for cricket so i had some questions especially about England cricket .
Do you have public nets or public pitches that are maintained by the council that are free to access?
In your clubs at u16 u14 etc levels are there first 11, second 11 ? Depending on their talent and capacities ?

Yeah it depends where you live, some places are amazing and other places it's crap, for instance go on Google maps and go to the UK and type in either Fairlop waters or IG6 3HN. Then look at that are in satellite mode, I can't imagine that there's many places like that anywhere in the world except perhaps Australia. I love Fairlop waters, at the weekend on Saturday mid season it is rammed packed with blokes, all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, all sorts or races, all playing cricket it is amazing! Or look at "Rutland Recreation Ground" on Satellite, the red and green bit right next to the big white building next to the cricket pitch are council nets, there's five there I think - all free access. My experience is that up north there's far more in the way of free facilities. Down here in the south they tend to be linked to clubs and therefore locked up and only accessible to club members. If they're open down south they get vandalised. Have a look at a place right near me - type in "Great Berry Open Space" or Forest Glade, Basildon. The field that is oval shaped, adjacent to the Forest Glade road, was designed to be a cricket pitch. The building in the corner with the car park is called the Pavilion. All around the field just off the grass in the bushes is a 18" fence made of chicken wire, designed so that the ball doesn't get lost in the bushes. When the estate was constructed in the 1990's the field was planted and rolled amazingly flat. An all weather artificial wicket was put down, but within a few years, the footballers poured petrol all over the wicket and set it alight and the council dug it up. As far as I know cricket was never played on the field ever apart from an informal match I organised on a wicket I prepared!

Yeah - some clubs have a 1st and 2nd XI or an A & B team at the younger age groups. Not so much down our way, because crickets not that popular in the south unless you're in London, but up north they may have that situation. A couple of years ago our kids leagues had a B team league, because so many kids that year were playing cricket, it's rarity and it didn't work for us as our B Team was a genuine B team and all the other teams made their B teams up with a mixture of B type players and their A teams.

We have U9's, U11's, U13's, U15's and U16's and then our 4th XI teams often have kids all the way down to U13's playing adult cricket in the 4th XI. My son for instance played in my 4th XI team when he was only 12!
007+-+4th+XI+v+Old+Southendians+&+Southchurch+7.6+(62).jpg

The back row here of my 4th XI have a bunch of old geezers including me on the back right and I think I'm the oldest at 54 and then the front row - age-wise you've got left to right.
Tim 15, My older son Ben15, Kieran 15, Mitchell 15, Tom 16 and Joe my younger son 12!
 
Yeah it depends where you live, some places are amazing and other places it's crap, for instance go on Google maps and go to the UK and type in either Fairlop waters or IG6 3HN. Then look at that are in satellite mode, I can't imagine that there's many places like that anywhere in the world except perhaps Australia. I love Fairlop waters, at the weekend on Saturday mid season it is rammed packed with blokes, all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, all sorts or races, all playing cricket it is amazing! Or look at "Rutland Recreation Ground" on Satellite, the red and green bit right next to the big white building next to the cricket pitch are council nets, there's five there I think - all free access. My experience is that up north there's far more in the way of free facilities. Down here in the south they tend to be linked to clubs and therefore locked up and only accessible to club members. If they're open down south they get vandalised. Have a look at a place right near me - type in "Great Berry Open Space" or Forest Glade, Basildon. The field that is oval shaped, adjacent to the Forest Glade road, was designed to be a cricket pitch. The building in the corner with the car park is called the Pavilion. All around the field just off the grass in the bushes is a 18" fence made of chicken wire, designed so that the ball doesn't get lost in the bushes. When the estate was constructed in the 1990's the field was planted and rolled amazingly flat. An all weather artificial wicket was put down, but within a few years, the footballers poured petrol all over the wicket and set it alight and the council dug it up. As far as I know cricket was never played on the field ever apart from an informal match I organised on a wicket I prepared!

Yeah - some clubs have a 1st and 2nd XI or an A & B team at the younger age groups. Not so much down our way, because crickets not that popular in the south unless you're in London, but up north they may have that situation. A couple of years ago our kids leagues had a B team league, because so many kids that year were playing cricket, it's rarity and it didn't work for us as our B Team was a genuine B team and all the other teams made their B teams up with a mixture of B type players and their A teams.

We have U9's, U11's, U13's, U15's and U16's and then our 4th XI teams often have kids all the way down to U13's playing adult cricket in the 4th XI. My son for instance played in my 4th XI team when he was only 12!
007+-+4th+XI+v+Old+Southendians+&+Southchurch+7.6+(62).jpg

The back row here of my 4th XI have a bunch of old geezers including me on the back right and I think I'm the oldest at 54 and then the front row - age-wise you've got left to right.
Tim 15, My older son Ben15, Kieran 15, Mitchell 15, Tom 16 and Joe my younger son 12!
Lol wth did the footballers burn it ?
 
Lol wth did the footballers burn it ?
They didn't like the idea of the space being shared with cricket players I guess? I didn't know about the history of the space and when I discovered it, I recognised that it was all laid out like a cricket pitch, the biggest clue was the pub on the corner of the field, it was called 'The Pavillion'. I checked it out and despite never being used for cricket, the section of grass in the centre between the 2 football pitches which I guess may have been laid as a cricket square was still dead flat. So, I started to go over there and practice, putting my stumps up and bowling. I started to attract the attention of some of the locals, an Indian bloke started to join me and then a doctor who was Pakistani, a bunch of 16 year lads and it started to grow.

It got to the point that we needed to cut the wicket as the lads were fast bowlers and it needed to be safer, so I used take a mower and roller over and we cut two strips side by side and more and more people got involved. Eventually one morning when I was cutting the grass, the council caught me and I though they were going to moan about it, but they totally supported what I was doing, offering help and support. It may have been them that told me the story about the artificial wicket? They tried to get a roller on it to do a proper job for us, but they couldn't get a flat trailer. They said "We think what you're doing is great because you're getting people involved at a grass roots level and these people may one day go on to play proper cricket. If they're playing cricket on the proper grounds, that means our blokes keep their jobs and get over-time".

That summer, we played almost a full game on the pitch, but shortly after one evening when I was mowing the wicket a bloke who claimed to represent the local football club that played on the pitch came over to me and basically threatened me with violence if I continued to use the field for cricket. I went back to the council blokes and spoke to their top boss. He gave me permission to do what I liked as long as I didn't interfere with the football during the football season. I had no intention of doing so, but having had the confrontation with the bloke, I didn't want to get into any of that and besides this was now at the end of the summer. I never used it again in the same way. Shame as it's such a lovely pitch. My clubs pitch is few hundred metres away, it's pretty, but it's on a hill, the Great Berry Open Space is in a way a far better venue/pitch.
 
I'm not aware of any public spaces around where I live that can be used for free. All the cricket facilities are owned or maintained by cricket clubs and you can't use the pitches or training areas without permission.
 
And do you have indoor nets that you can hire ?
Yeah most schools have reasonably good sports halls with nets and clubs hire them, but they're hireable by anyone. We go to a community centre sometimes with 3 badminton courts and hire the middle one. The courts are separated from each other by a big curtain. We go early in the morning sometimes and if there's no-one else in there we draw back the curtains and use the whole hall, that costs us £8! But if you want to hire the whole hall for an hour it's £24. You have to use training balls in that one, but the designated cricket nets allow the use of cricket balls, but they're about £80 for an hour.
 
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