Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

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I ran into some dead ends that would take to much time and trouble but i will try and find the last draft which was the best.

I thought about the slider backspinner too. Doug Ring bowled it and bradman saw him bowl plenty but ring might not have perfected it till early 1950,s after bradman left team.

But back to bradman in his opus on cricket ''art of cricket" in the chapter on spin bowling he describes legspin, offspin and topspin and their effect on drift and turn etc but then goes on to say there is no point even considering backspin for the spin bowler because it would be impossible to apply enough to effect the ball ,unlike golf etc.

Now we know that aint so, but i couldn't find anyone else in print or web who has noticed this mistake in bradmans book. Even through all the reprints and revisions that were done on the book it still remains in the books latest edition.
 
As we all well know there's plenty of people out there that seem sceptical about the conventional Flippers existance, let alone the variations of the Flipper. We'll just along with the idea that the Flipper isn't real and it's just a part of Warne and everybody elses psychological game. That suits me and no doubt anyone else that does bowl the Flipper!
 
Length is mandatory. Line is optional. Cant get that Bishen Bedi maxim out of my brain since Shrek mentioned it.

My son has 3 wickets off 7 overs. Same start as last year. Except he has gone for 17 runs compared to 34 last year. The difference? Length.

Last year he was too full and got driven. I found out and reremembered by rereading last seasons threads here. We worked on completely eliminating the long hop but had got too full instead.

This season i have only watched from side-on in games and he is bowling a goldilocks length. Not too full, no full tosses yet. Not too short, no long hops.
 
chippyben said:
The sodden balls started to drift a lot. I have no idea why and I guess its not much use but its a strange and unexpected phenomena.
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I noticed that too. The bigger heavier adult ball drifts and drops a lot more than the junior size ball as well.
 
My new Pakistani batting mate Suhail, who knows a thing or two about cricket says the same thing - the correct length is the essential aspect, get that right and the rest falls into place.
 
That's the bit that at the moment I have trouble judging, I didn't do too bad with him, short balls he skips down the wicket, but that's easy you just bung down a wrong un or bowl it wider and they both worked. He then played off the back foot cutting the ball through the square leg region, I then kind of got a sense of the length to bowl and bowled on the off-stump and then he had to resort to blocking it and defending. Anything on the legs he was good at and I couldn't bowl anywhere on or wider of Leg stump. He was also saying to give it loads of flight and get it above the eyes and then that with the right length was almost unplayable. Hopefully I'll get more opportunities to bowl at him as he bats and coaches me as he does so, he's not looking to smack it everywhere to intimidate me, he seems genuinely interested in helping me and it looks like I'll be able to learn some stuff off him.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Hopefully I'll get more opportunities to bowl at him as he bats and coaches me as he does so, he's not looking to smack it everywhere to intimidate me, he seems genuinely interested in helping me and it looks like I'll be able to learn some stuff off him.
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is this the bloke with the setup in his backyard?
 
Last weekend I opened the bowling with pace and bowled quite a few off cutters that really cut back in. I hadn't bowled any this year as they are often a little inaccurate. Once I had bowled a couple I just concentrated on bowling a good length outside off stump and they felt compelled to play balls they could easily leave with a few plays and misses and a few edges.(dropped by the slips!!) Anyhow I thought about adapting this to leg spin and wondered if it is better to reverse the usual wrong un tactic and bowl a wrong un in the first over just to let them know that you have one and force them to play every ball after that instaed of relying on the surprise of a wrong un later on, but also having to pitch it just right and even then it may not take the wicket. For my mind the percentages are better the first way.
 
chippyben said:
I thought about adapting this to leg spin and wondered if it is better to reverse the usual wrong un tactic and bowl a wrong un in the first over just to let them know that you have one
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i was told a long time ago to show a wrongun early if the opposition dont know or think you have one, just to insert uncertainty. Even if it is easily pickable. Show you have trumps early, some say.
 
Another old trick, even if you haven't got a wrongun is have the coach and captain telling you "LEGBREAKS, TOPSPINNERS AND JUST THE OCCASSIONAL WRONGUN" loud enough for the opposition to hear.
 
there are times to show the wrong'un early, and times to keep it up your sleeve i think. probably against higher standard batsmen (against spin) its better to keep it to yourself until you need to use it. they arent likely to get scared by it early on, and then theyll just adapt to the fact you have one. lower quality players will get scared, and struggle to play it, so show it early to gain control.

i dont have a wrong'un, but i use my flippers to the same effect (with extra flight). they either go straight, or more often nip back in slightly, and its enough to scare batsmen with. because i flight them more than normal it gives the impression that its a wrong'un of some kind, and it only takes a couple of fielders to make comments and then the batsmen get it in their head that the ball is turning both ways. anything on off stump becomes a very dangerous prospect!!
 
Still cant believe how much talent is in my son's new team. In his lingo i think they are pwning it against a bunch of noobs who need to get some skills. They had a big win yesterday. Way early finish. He ended up with 3 overs, 1 maiden, 0/6.

So cumulative that is 10 overs, 2 maidens, 2/23 so far and still leading figures for team and in the top 10 for comp.

He was a bit too good for them today, lots of dots, and the runs off him were all streaky. If he had 3rd man a lot shorter he could have had wickets cause that is where the ball went in the air to a few times.

After losing their first match, mainly because they were short of a gallop and fell into a bit of an ambush from a team that had 2 rep players, they have had two big wins and gone from bottom to equal top of comp. Maybe even ahead on %, dont know yet.

Last year my son had only two bad days at the office. One day 5/0/36.The batsman that day is ranked best in his age -group and the first drop of our rep squad. He wont have to bowl to him this year because he has gone down an age group, where he is averaging 90 right now.

The worst though was one over he went for 15 runs and was taken off after just the one over. I will have to go and look what i posted here last season but i think he had a crook left ankle, from overbowling. Now here is the good news, that kid is in our team now! He is going great guns for us with the bat, he is a very classy batsman and i rank him one of the best kids i have seen in last 5 years.

I remember being a little bit depressed after the two bad days last year, but now i look back and say the only 2 kids who gave him a hard time are outstanding players, and he wont have to bowl to either, except at nets. Actually watching my bloke bowl legspin at this young gun bat is great to see. One of the few young bats around town that can really use his feet to spin. Dont worry though i watch my kid get him out, and get smashed with superb driving, every session, and i dont watch it all
 
Thats great Macca. I think getting into that team will be a big leap forward for your lad. Getting exposed to good players like that kid in his team who have an idea of how to play leg spin will only make him a better bowler. Can't wait til my boy is old enough to get him started.( He has to learn to walk first!!! although he does roll his wrists around I've noticed. A bit sad I know.)
We lost our first game yesterday, a one dayer and I put the loss down to poor tactics. Our fielding positions were too attacking and we didn't protect our bounderies at all. We were chasing 197 and I reckon a more defensive field would have saved 40 runs.
Then our openers batted the first 18 overs and only got 38 runs. One of there bowlers got 0/9 off 7 overs! Finally one of them got out but we were too far behind by then and we all sacrficed our wickets trying to get 10 or more an over. They bowled well but geez we needed to have a go at them. I had a bit of fun batting even though it only lasted 4 balls. I walked down the pitch to them and went 4,2,6 bowled. The only 6 of the game.
You will all remember I posted a few videos on here a while back and I got a lot of feedback and advice. Some of it at the time went over my head, especially doctortrans stuff but with hard work over the last few months and constantly looking back at the posts, especially docs excellent in depth posts with great pics I have made large improvements and its all making a lot of sense. Without this help I would really have just been wasting my time as I really had no idea of the dynamics of a good action.
The hardest thing has been coordination as doc said it could take months or years and hes not wrong. I am very happy with my hip and shoulder alignment staying together but I am still having trouble getting good force out of my back leg as when I try to really push with the back leg my coordination goes out of kilter and I rush forward with my bowling arm. It will come though. The other thing that I do is lean too far to the left and forward through the action and I really have to concentrate on not letting this happen. All in all though I've eliminated quite a few problems I had with my action and am very satisfied with my progress so thanks again to all who contributed.
 
chippyben said:
We lost our first game yesterday,
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Was that the first time you have played that team this season ?

Are you going to watch the t20 tonight chippyben ? Hope Smith gets a bowl tonight, haven't seen him bowl for a while. Bit of legspin on prime time tv would be good.
 
macca said:
Was that the first time you have played that team this season ?

Are you going to watch the t20 tonight chippyben ? Hope Smith gets a bowl tonight, haven't seen him bowl for a while. Bit of legspin on prime time tv would be good.
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Yeah mate first time we played them but the thing is they were bottom of the ladder. They were a bunch of clever wily old blokes though and they just outsmarted our boys.
Talking of t20 I played my first game ever this arvo. We got 133 and lost by 5 wickets. Our batting collapsed and I went in at 8 with 7 overs left. So I just played sensibly and got singles and managed one 6 and a couple of 4s and top scored with 23 not out which I was very happy with. I must say I was impressed with their clever bowling and changes of pace which took some getting used to. I got 1/16 off 2 with the ball with a couple of edged bounderies. I'm not really over enthusiastic about the game though. Its more good luck at times and the poor bowlers get hammered even when bowling well and the bounderies are rediculousy short.
Ill be watching tonight. Smith to me doesn't look very natural though. Arms and legs seem to going everywhere when he comes in but him seem position is impecable as it goes down the pitch. One thing that has surprised me with t20 though is that spinners are valuable members of a team whereas I thought when t20 first started spinners would disappear from that form of the game.
 
Yeah I thought that would be the case as well, but it seems that what with the absolute neccesity to get runs on the board right from the outset, the batsmen are immediatley under pressure to get runs and play potentially rash shots. A good wrist spinner who has a handful or varieties, accuracy and the nous to change line, length, speed and flight is always going to be potentially dangerous when you're looking to hit boundaries. The need to actually hit the ball with some effort is always going to mean an increased chance of a mistake.
 
my best bowling is in T20 matches. without wanting to sound too big headed, my leg spin this season in my T20 comp was by far the most effective on a consistent basis. i was joint leading wicket taker with a much better strike rate than anyone else in the side (my average wasnt as good because i went for runs sometimes, but then i always had to bowl at the best batsmen). there werent any official competition figures, but id bet on being top 5 in the comp for wickets. we won the cup and came 2nd in the league. i also had to contend with a field placement that pretty much had everyone on the ropes! the number of leaked singles drove me mental, id have had way more wickets with the field settings i wanted, but a couple of times the deep fielders paid off.

logic would dictate that leg spin might not be a good option, given the fine line between attacking bowling and getting smashed out of the park. youd think that off spin would be order of the day with defensive lines and fields. but batsmen are never under any pressure really, because 10 wickets in 20 overs are quite difficult to lose unless you get stupid. so every batsman can attack and take risks, and off spin is fairly predictable and safe to play against. the majority of my wickets were caught in the deep, caught at short mid-off, stumped or bowled. the stumped and bowleds were always off full length balls that batsmen misdjudged in flight and came down the pitch to and then turned through the gate. all the deep catches (4 i think) came the very next ball after the same batsman had hit a 6! and there were 3 catches at short mid-off (plus 2 dropped, one by me) where batsmen got stuck in 2 minds between defence and attack when the ball popped up at them more than anticipated, and they just spooned them up.

i find a similar thing indoors. ive only played a couple of matches so its still a bit early to judge fully. but maximum runs are scored down the ground, so good batsmen are always looking to drive straight. when the ball is gripping off the carpet it causes all sorts of problems for straight bat shots. if they just play safe and square then they only ever get 1 run because the fielders are there. and if they try to use their feet then they are hugely vulnerable to stumpings.

next match i want to set an unorthodox field. every team ive seen play has fielders at backward point, square leg, mid-on and mid-off for spin, usually with mid-on and mid-off on the back wall, but this gets varied depending on the batsman. i want to set mine with forward point, slip, short mid-on, and deep mid-off. il pitch the ball on off-middle stump on a full length making it hard for the batsman to tuck the ball to square leg for the easy 3 runs, especially with the turn. mid-on will be very short to discourage this option anyway, and also to encourage the straight drive against the spin. their easiest runs will be scored down the ground, but the outside edge will be extremely vulnerable with a slip in place. so long as im turning the ball consistently it should take wickets. and wickets are critical indoors because its so easy to score big runs. i open the bowling at the 2nd end so 2 or 3 early wickets puts us in the driving seat. all ive got to do is convince my captain, but i get on pretty well with him and we practice at nets together anyway, so i reckon he will give it a try!
 
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