Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

[Jim2109]

I love them old skool boys, they play proper cricket and it's like a chess game, they look for your mistakes and play proper shots, I'm the opposite - I hate the arrogant young batsmen brought up on a diet of T/20 cricket treating the game like a net session, but having reflected on the year gone by I may have a plan next time round, but I'll still need blokes that are willing to run a few yards and pull off catches.

those arrogant youngsters just gift you their wicket though. its brilliant!! sometimes youll come up against guys who have genuine talent as well, who will take high risks but often execute their shots brilliantly. then you have more of a challenge, but its a challenge that i enjoy. you know that there are always opportunities, its just a question of out thinking the batsman.

against those old school guys you know that they might not present a single opportunity in their entire innings. theres little you can do to force the issue, and some of them will spend 10 overs defending for dots. i had to bowl at one such guy when we played a friendly against a touring side. they had 1 wicket remaining with about 8 overs left, and we wanted to win the match. they were hundreds of runs short of our total with a kid at the other end on a century (he was one of the above mentioned arrogant youngsters, but with bags of talent!). this old guy just blocked me out for 3 overs, but i was beating his edge all the time and causing him trouble. with 3 overs left the captain took me off and had a go himself for 2 overs and we didnt get the wicket and drew the match. after the game this guy told me that he was glad i got taken off because he was having all sorts of trouble playing me and reckoned i was close to getting him. but it was still hugely frustrating.

last night indoors i played the role of arrogant batsman against a young seamer. they batted first and this kid came in at number 4 or 5 and was looking to play big shots, but looked quite nervous. i was at mid-off, and my captain at mid-on, and we both fielded 2/3 down the wicket to this guy, really tight, and just staring him out, offering free shots down the ground for 4 or 6 if he wanted them. you could tell he was really nervous about having us so close, and he just couldnt get the ball away. so when i came into bat with an over left he was bowling, so i figured i could get the psychological advantage. first ball i charged about 3 strides down the pitch to his pace bowling, and he no balled by dragging it short. next ball the same, except wide instead. then again. i kept doing the same and hit a couple of singles. then last ball of the game he bowled me a cracking yorker, i came down the pitch and missed it and he clean bowled me. i just shook his hand, because it was very well done. the point of what im saying being that if the batsman is looking to dominate you then they WANT you to change your style and disrupt your rhythm. dont do it. just bowl the balls that get you wickets all day long in nets and let THEM take the risks. eventually theyll get one wrong, generally sooner rather than later. so long as youre consistent you should get the wicket. if you let them disrupt you then theres only going to be one winner.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I had some good news today, the camera I've been after that runs at 200, 400 and 1000 frames a second (Slow Mo) has been bought at work, there may even be 2 of them, so there's the prospect of shooting the same bowling release from 2 angles, so at last I'm going to be able to film the different deliveries in slow motion. I'm hoping to do a couple of things. (1) Analyse my own bowling actions and see how I am releasing the ball, I've actually sussed the big flick release this summer, but my other action also produces a big turning ball and although I've recently considered it to be more of a roll off the fingers, I'm very interested to see if this is the reality as it still turns exceptionally well on ocassions. (2) Film the release to post up on youtube as an instructional video to show what does happen and how you do impart the spin.

Casio Exilim EX-FC100 Digital Camera

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Casio-Exili...5EW6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287433204&sr=8-1

 

[chippyben]

I got that camera cheaply on ebay. The best speed for looking at the general action is 200fps. Good light is required for the 1000fps and the size of the image is small too, I guess because it takes more memery or something. Excellent like thing though.
I managed to waste a session changing the settings between different fps speeds only to get home and find I hadn't put it on slow motion!! I'm looking forward to seeing your videos of it coming out of the hand.
I think your right Jim, I guess its my pace bowling mentality of hating going for runs. If I had kept a better length to that bloke at the nets its him who has to take the risks and hopefully make a mistake. I guess patience is the key. After all ,all leggies should want the batsman to try and attack. I think one thing I'll try next time is more variation of pace. The more I got hit the more I tried to turn it but that didn't work as he always got to the pitch of the ball. Change of pace had more chance of him mistiming one.

 

[macca]

Change of pace is one of the suggestions i was gonna give, so you you already worked that one out. Easier said than done. It might mean releasing the ball earlier or later unless you are getting a natural pace variation, which might be a bad sign anyway.

Philpott reckons only 10% of bats can use their feet properly against legspinners when they attempt to skip out to drive. But with those Indian guys i would put that percentage a lot higher.

Some days warne and grimmett couldn't stop tendulkar and mccabe dancing down the track and getting them on the half volley and full toss every good length ball . Grimmett reckons pace variation was the main thing he had to resort to against the very greatest front foot players.

' This is what i tell my young bloke as Plan A; watch batsmans footwork closely, try bowling one side of the wicket (offside), stick an extra bloke on that side, tell the keeper to watch out for wide offside stumping, and see if he comes out and across enough. What Jim said about holding your nerve and not dropping short is the main thing. But a shorter faster ball could be tried at least once.

This is when you need the variations as well of course, and the old topspinner is the first cab off the rank I reckon.

 

[shrek]

There used to be 3 indoor cricket centres around our part of Sydney but they have all gone now which is a shame. I reckon it would be good practice bowling against batsmen that are really trying to attack you every ball.
I went to the nets for a bowl this afternoon and after a bit of a solo session where I had leg breaks coming out nicely two Indian blokes in the nets next to me asked if I wanted to bowl at them. The first guy I bowled to stayed in his crease and I was all over him and got him out 4 or 5 times. The next bloke was a different kettle of fish. He used his feet really well getting to the pitch of the ball and more often than not belting my straight back down the ground. Any good length ball he covered well or belted. That led me to bowling a little bit shorter at times which of course he got back to and cut and pulled with ease.
I must admit I was out of ideas with this bloke. I lost a bit of my technique too. The only thing that worked a bit at the end was bowling quicker. I did get him to mistime one and lob it to mid on but in a game situation that man would have almost certainly moved back to the fence by any captain.
Does anyone have tips for this type of batsman??
Macca we have gone up a division and are going great guns. We have picked up 3 good batsman which really helped. Last year we only won 2 games so its a big surprise how good we are going. Much more enjoyable winning a few games.

I had to bowl quite regularly at batsmen like these in the last season and at some of my team mates - Patience is essential - Batsmen who can do that repeatedly are good, If they aren't you would get them in the first couple of instances anyway - In a match, they would hesitate to step out each ball and may defend an odd one so giving them 4 runs an over is alright.And having them step out gives you the best chance to get them out after all.
From a batsman's perspective - stepping out and driving is a matter of being able to predict the trajectory confidently. So, minor changes like angle, speed, turn, dip will have them reconsider the shots - which is what you are looking to do. If you can get the wicket of such a batsman once every 4 overs, you would have it made - so, set up the batsmen - take protection - long on, long off and keep bowling there - once he gets used to it for 2-3 overs, bowl one a little wider of crease, perhaps deliver from one step behind the crease, try more overspin to get greater dip, put more spin on it etc. And that is when you'd want your keeper short cover, short midwicket, yourself alert to catch the slightly mistimed drive(or in keeper's case to get the stumping).
Body language is also very important - All the time when he is driving you, don't let your shoulders drop- instead act as if that is exactly what you want him to do, play on his nerves a bit, a few "oohs" and "aaahs" fit perfectly well. It is important (IMHO) that when facing the really good batsmen, you should opt for subtle variations like these instead of the really obvious ones like faster seam-up or googly.

 

[chippyben]

Some good ideas there gents. Ive always been fond of bowling from a yard or so behind the crease as a variation. I first saw Saeed Ajmal do it in the tests against us last summer. It allows for more flight and dip and gets to them a fraction later than they think with the same action because of the extra distance it has to travel. I doubt many batsmen at our level would pick up on it either. I know some don't advocate using it but sometimes you just have to throw out the book.
With change of pace I have read Grimmett used different release points to get change of pace i.e. letting the ball go early or late, but I think that method is for the well advanced leg spinner and could just get me into trouble. At the moment my changes of pace only come from different levels of effort which I guess is easy for good batsman to see. I have noticed that if I bowl with a lower arm it comes out slower, but often more innaccurate. Another Grimmett method is opening up the body at release to get a slower delivery but Im going to leave this method alone until I am more confident with my action.
By bowling outside offstump Macca apart from stumpings is that to make it harder to hit you down the ground? Is that a bit of a defensive tactic too with the extra man on the off? Im guessing it limits his shots unless he takes big risks trying to hit you straight or on the on side from outside off. He would also be hitting against the spin too.
With body language I have made a very conscious effort not to show any dissappointment at being hit. I need to work a bit on my bluff and gamesmanship. I dont really interact with the batsman bowling pace but I see its a much bigger part of leg spin bowling. We only have to look at Warne for that. I think Dave was mentioning it a while back about reputation and bluff getting a lot of his wickets.
Lots of things to think about anyway and good experience to get belted at the nets and at least now I might have a few answers when I face another good bat.

 

[macca]

By bowling outside offstump Macca apart from stumpings is that to make it harder to hit you down the ground? Is that a bit of a defensive tactic too with the extra man on the off?

More a last resort. Pretty defensive to some peoples way of thinking but batsmen are allowed to be defensive so whats wrong with a bowler shuttin up shop for a bit?

Anyway warnes always goes on about attacking by defending and defending by attacking in his tv commentary. Did you see warnie drive that MorganV8 in the wet on topgear oz last night chippyben?

You probably face similar wind conditions chippyben. Like last weekend with that westerly blowin a gale my young bloke was drifting up to foot down leg and still spinning from 6 inches to a yard against the crosswind by bowling from the southern end. The south easter is the easiest to decide to bowl into but the nor easter is more problematical. good breeze for the offspinner to plough into but if it gets nearly all easterly leggies are better off coming from the north and using the cross breeze for drift.

 

[macca]

One of the things jenner and philpott stress in their coaching is the importance of starting and ending you spell with dot balls or wickets preferably.

They are not stressing accuracy but rather concentration.

That's what pleased me about my young fellas start to the season. Two dots then a wicket to start. Wicket/ Maiden first over. His last over was his most expensive, but still finished with two dot balls by going around the wicket to lefty. Finished with best figures for team and being objective i would say best bowler for team on the day. If he had been belted for a couple of boundaries at the end it would probably have wiped out good impression he did make.

 

[chippyben]

More a last resort. Pretty defensive to some peoples way of thinking but batsmen are allowed to be defensive so whats wrong with a bowler shuttin up shop for a bit?

Anyway warnes always goes on about attacking by defending and defending by attacking in his tv commentary. Did you see warnie drive that MorganV8 in the wet on topgear oz last night chippyben?

You probably face similar wind conditions chippyben. Like last weekend with that westerly blowin a gale my young bloke was drifting up to foot down leg and still spinning from 6 inches to a yard against the crosswind by bowling from the southern end. The south easter is the easiest to decide to bowl into but the nor easter is more problematical. good breeze for the offspinner to plough into but if it gets nearly all easterly leggies are better off coming from the north and using the cross breeze for drift.

I like the idea of having a defensive option though if you are getting carted. At least it might rein it in a bit and the captain keep you on.
I missed Warnie, how'd he go. I bet he killed it, hes good at most things he puts his hand to and hes got some pretty flash cars that Im sure hes tested to the limit before.
That westerly last saturday was crazy, bloody freezing too. We have a few grounds around here that get a good sea breeze. One set of nets here is great for getting drift as it runs east west, bowling from the east end with a southerly blowing. For some stupid reason most of the nets around here go east west and so in the evening you are bowling into the settng sun. Our home nets get ridiculously bad at times.
Reading the "Worlds Greatest Leg Spin Bowlers" Ive found that Bob Holland and John Watkins came fom Newcastle. Looks like the place has the pedigree for leggies, maybe you lad could be the third test rep from there!!!

 

[macca]

Reading the "Worlds Greatest Leg Spin Bowlers" Ive found that Bob Holland and John Watkins came fom Newcastle. Looks like the place has the pedigree for leggies, maybe you lad could be the third test rep from there!!!

Poor old johnny watkins, he only got one test and was so nervous he could hardly hold the ball. Poor bloke struggled big time and one of the worst performances ever by an aussie test bowler.

Johnny Martin was a very good left arm wristie for nsw and aus that came from near here and ended his club career here in wallsend. And col mc cool played club cricket here after his retirement.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I got that camera cheaply on ebay. The best speed for looking at the general action is 200fps. Good light is required for the 1000fps and the size of the image is small too, I guess because it takes more memery or something. Excellent like thing though.
I managed to waste a session changing the settings between different fps speeds only to get home and find I hadn't put it on slow motion!! I'm looking forward to seeing your videos of it coming out of the hand.
I think your right Jim, I guess its my pace bowling mentality of hating going for runs. If I had kept a better length to that bloke at the nets its him who has to take the risks and hopefully make a mistake. I guess patience is the key. After all ,all leggies should want the batsman to try and attack. I think one thing I'll try next time is more variation of pace. The more I got hit the more I tried to turn it but that didn't work as he always got to the pitch of the ball. Change of pace had more chance of him mistiming one.

How did you get on with it, what have you tried to use it for and what's up with the 400FPS mode?

 

[chippyben]

How did you get on with it, what have you tried to use it for and what's up with the 400FPS mode?

I used the 200fps for analysis of the action as I find this slows down the footage enough whereas the 400fps slows it down too much. I haven't tried to film the wrist release yet but Im sure the 1000fps would be perfect for that. But look who I'm talking to. I'm sure once you get your hands on it you will be able to give me some tips on how to get the most out of it.

 

[Jim2109]

my slow motion camcorder works at 240fps (1/4 speed) and this is pretty good for analysis. i do edit it down to 1/16th speed though in software (which still looks pretty good on screen, its not at all jumpy) and this is also useful for very detailed analysis. i can see 400fps and maybe even 800fps being very useful, 1000fps is probably beyond necessary, and youre going to be trading quality all the way down. 200-400fps is probably going to give the best results. id imagine that the camera wont be anywhere near comparable to my camcorder on quality, although i may be wrong. but for the money you really cant fault it! youre better off filming at around 1/4 speed and then slowing it down in software though i think, because this loses a lot less quality than the camera will at higher frame rates. and light becomes critical, youd probably need artificial lighting to film at 1000fps.

 

[chippyben]

We had training tonight and I bowled quite well although I wasn't getting that much turn. I've noticed that a lot of the batsmen at our club play with hard hands and really prod at them when defending good length deliveries. I would get a lot of wickets with some close in fielders. The top spinner is a great ball against these blokes especially synthetic wickets as none of them seem to handle the extra bounce.
Im happy with my bowling at the moment. My biggest thing I have to concentrate on is following through and not stopping short. When I do this I find Im not rotating properly and doing too much with my bowling arm. I'm actually concentrating on my leading arm and just making sure its doing everything right and my bowling arm seems to take care of itself. Its been hard to get my bowling arm to "lag" behind and not race ahead. I guess its from my fast bowling action and muscle memory.
I have noticed if I try and get some extra drive from my back leg through the delivery my arm races forward again. I guess its just a coordination thing and if I keep on working at it it'll come good as I want to pick up a little bit of pace as I'm just a little slow at the moment.
A young english guy came to training tonight who bowls leggies. He's going to get a run in our 6th grade team. He was bowling some nice leg breaks and landing most of them. He has a very good action and gives it a good flick. Towards the end of training we bowled together in the same net and had a great time trying out our variations. I was trying to show him the back spinning leg break and we were both trying to bowl a few googlies without much sucess although his turned out as beautiful topspinners whereas mine were just long hop rubbish. It was good to bounce ideas and thoughts off each other.

 

[macca]

Im happy with my bowling at the moment. My biggest thing I have to concentrate on is following through and not stopping short ............. I want to pick up a little bit of pace as I'm just a little slow at the moment.

Maybe sort out a stronger, longer follow through for that extra pace?

You can concentrate on the biggest follow through to suit your bowling for a few balls, measure what that is. Then from time to time place a marker at that distance and have someone check you are maintaining that length of follow through and not pulling up short. It is easier if someone else like a coach does this because the bowler should be checked when he is not concentrating on this aspect.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

my slow motion camcorder works at 240fps (1/4 speed) and this is pretty good for analysis. i do edit it down to 1/16th speed though in software (which still looks pretty good on screen, its not at all jumpy) and this is also useful for very detailed analysis. i can see 400fps and maybe even 800fps being very useful, 1000fps is probably beyond necessary, and youre going to be trading quality all the way down. 200-400fps is probably going to give the best results. id imagine that the camera wont be anywhere near comparable to my camcorder on quality, although i may be wrong. but for the money you really cant fault it! youre better off filming at around 1/4 speed and then slowing it down in software though i think, because this loses a lot less quality than the camera will at higher frame rates. and light becomes critical, youd probably need artificial lighting to film at 1000fps.

Daylights fine at 1000fps as long as it's not diffused. Artificial light at those speeds would be dogs**t useless. With this camera in order to get the 1000FPS there's a payoff in that it's no longer full frame and it records a thin 'Panoramic' style frame to save on processing. Once I get my hands on it I'll be most interested in the 400fps as it's full frame. As you say Jim I'm sure that 200fps would suffice.

 

[shrek]

Some good ideas there gents. Ive always been fond of bowling from a yard or so behind the crease as a variation. I first saw Saeed Ajmal do it in the tests against us last summer. It allows for more flight and dip and gets to them a fraction later than they think with the same action because of the extra distance it has to travel. I doubt many batsmen at our level would pick up on it either. I know some don't advocate using it but sometimes you just have to throw out the book.
With change of pace I have read Grimmett used different release points to get change of pace i.e. letting the ball go early or late, but I think that method is for the well advanced leg spinner and could just get me into trouble.

By bowling outside offstump Macca apart from stumpings is that to make it harder to hit you down the ground? Is that a bit of a defensive tactic too with the extra man on the off? Im guessing it limits his shots unless he takes big risks trying to hit you straight or on the on side from outside off. He would also be hitting against the spin too.

Not just a case of batsmen at our level, but I believe batsmen at all levels find that variation a little tough to gauge. We do have 3-D eyesight, but in order to gauge in such a short time all three dimensions that make up trajectory of the ball especially with it doing fancy things like dip and drift is a bit taxing. Add variation in firing position and it just become ten times more difficult.

The first time I noticed it was when saqlain mushtaq got those 20 wickets in two tests (4 5-wicket hauls) against India in 1998-99. Whereas Siddhu, tendulkar had absolutely murdered warnie in the season before, here was saqlain having them dancing to his tunes(saqlain got tendulkar 4 times in 4 innings and siddhu twice in 4 innings according to my memory).

That aside macca - I somehow don't agree with the bowling wider outside offstump as a defensive tactic. If the batsmen is aggressive - as "dancing down the track for every good length ball" suggests, bowling outside off will only give him more room to hit those cover drives/ cuts/late cuts. That is why all the leggies think of bowling around the wicket and outside leg as their defensive "go-to" option.

I remember an interview with shane warne after the 1998 series in India and he said that he didn't remember any other series where he was cut as often as he was in this series. Many of those cuts were played off front foot too.

 

[chippyben]

Not just a case of batsmen at our level, but I believe batsmen at all levels find that variation a little tough to gauge. We do have 3-D eyesight, but in order to gauge in such a short time all three dimensions that make up trajectory of the ball especially with it doing fancy things like dip and drift is a bit taxing. Add variation in firing position and it just become ten times more difficult.

The first time I noticed it was when saqlain mushtaq got those 20 wickets in two tests (4 5-wicket hauls) against India in 1998-99. Whereas Siddhu, tendulkar had absolutely murdered warnie in the season before, here was saqlain having them dancing to his tunes(saqlain got tendulkar 4 times in 4 innings and siddhu twice in 4 innings according to my memory).

That aside macca - I somehow don't agree with the bowling wider outside offstump as a defensive tactic. If the batsmen is aggressive - as "dancing down the track for every good length ball" suggests, bowling outside off will only give him more room to hit those cover drives/ cuts/late cuts. That is why all the leggies think of bowling around the wicket and outside leg as their defensive "go-to" option.

I remember an interview with shane warne after the 1998 series in India and he said that he didn't remember any other series where he was cut as often as he was in this series. Many of those cuts were played off front foot too.

Interesting Shrek, so what sort of field would you set for bowling around the wicket when you are trying to defend? Do you give away a single to get the weaker batsman on strike?

Maybe sort out a stronger, longer follow through for that extra pace?

You can concentrate on the biggest follow through to suit your bowling for a few balls, measure what that is. Then from time to time place a marker at that distance and have someone check you are maintaining that length of follow through and not pulling up short. It is easier if someone else like a coach does this because the bowler should be checked when he is not concentrating on this aspect.

I'm starting to get some nice rhythm at the moment and gradually getting my follow through going. I guess its just muscle memory again as I've done a lot of practice over the past few months where I haven't been follwing through properly so its just a habit I have to work hard to break. Each session I do though it gets better and tonight I found I was getting more drive from my back leg. I am getting my arm a little lower too and getting some vicious top spin at times although I am bowling a lot more full tosses because of it.
Its a great feeling though bowling 1 or 2 or sometimes more really good balls per over that would see any batsman at our level struggle with, when I can bowl pace for over after over without bowling anything threatening at times

 

[macca]

Shrek is right in that the standard go to defensive ploy of most leggies is to bowl at the pads from around the wicket and set the field accordingly, eg; short fine leg.
bowling wide of off stump with a stacked off side field can be an effective defense but is usually frowned on as spoiling tactics. but if you can and avoid being wided i reckon you're a good bowler anyway.

 

[shrek]

Interesting Shrek, so what sort of field would you set for bowling around the wicket when you are trying to defend? Do you give away a single to get the weaker batsman on strike?

A field that I can imagine setting for bowling around the wicket is this - short fine leg, deep midwicket, deep square leg, short midwicket, long on, point, cover, mid off. You can still give away runs with this field, but that is only if you err on length. As Bedi says (often) : Length is mandatory, line is optional.

It is defensive because if the batsman chooses to he can just kick it away without any danger of getting out. But if he wants to score runs, you are forcing the batsmen to hit against spin for not too many runs (on leg side) or with the gaps on off-side, he has to move quite a distance down the leg to make room for himself on the off. If that wretched reverse-sweep comes out, you might want to move the short midwicket fielder to off-side.