Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)
- Thread starter Jim2109
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Turns out Benaud had both the Flipper and a slider. Philpott explains his 'Real' Slider in terms of Benuad having it before him and being an excellent exponent of it, bowling it perfectly. (Page 45 The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling). He also alludes to Bruce Dooland and Cecil Pepper having sliders as well as Flippers.
Unrelated to wrist spin but it's amazing that people still think the rules were amended because of Murali. You do know that the likes of McGrath, Lee, and pretty much 99% of the bowlers the ICC tested, straightened their elbow more than what the rules allowed at that time - 10 degrees...
Murai also has a genetic deformity in his elbow - his eblow is permanently bent at an angle. This furthers the illusion of him chucking. This was/is one of the reasons only Murali gets picked on for his alleged "chucking", while others like McGrath were never questioned.
Murai also has a genetic deformity in his elbow - his eblow is permanently bent at an angle. This furthers the illusion of him chucking. This was/is one of the reasons only Murali gets picked on for his alleged "chucking", while others like McGrath were never questioned.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah he's an amazing bowler, it's good to see that he's still bowling in the one day format, I'm a big fan of Murali myself.
macca
Active Member
My sons team had a narrow 2 run win today so they should be outright leaders now.
My young bloke bowled 3 overs 1/10. so cumulative that is 13overs, 2 maidens 4/33 so far this season. keeping him in top 6 bowlers for his comp. doesn't sound a lot of overs for round 6, but 2 washouts have kept the bowlers on about a dozen overs each.
My young bloke bowled 3 overs 1/10. so cumulative that is 13overs, 2 maidens 4/33 so far this season. keeping him in top 6 bowlers for his comp. doesn't sound a lot of overs for round 6, but 2 washouts have kept the bowlers on about a dozen overs each.
Im sure I read somewhere that Benaud became so enamoured with back spinning deliveries that at one stage its all he bowled. I'll have to try and find it.
You've got to love "Slammin" Sam Kekovich, he doesn't beat about the bush when asking questions>
Mcgrath a chucker, mate your on a different planet!
macca
Active Member
My son got one of the openers out, stumped today. 2nd time he has done that this season. He was averaging 40 plus , so it was a prize wicket. The keeper and my son haven't been doing any extra training together or anything, it's just this little glovesman is so good.
The opposition today had a good little legspinner as well. 1st time i have seen him and i was impressed. he was about as good as my kid i suppose but he bowled 1 or 2 bad balls an over. My young bloke had his length spot on again today. Nothing short, nothing full. Perfect, how long can he keep it up?
The opposition today had a good little legspinner as well. 1st time i have seen him and i was impressed. he was about as good as my kid i suppose but he bowled 1 or 2 bad balls an over. My young bloke had his length spot on again today. Nothing short, nothing full. Perfect, how long can he keep it up?
Macca, some of us did highlight the benefit of having a decent keeper before the start of the season
Is there any reason the two have not had a session on their own or does the coach not see the need as they are appear to be getting the job done (to me I would try to get one in just to impress on both of them the value of the other)
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah I liked the blokes interview technique as well, warnie almost looks sheepish!
Looks like with the run up to the Ashes there's a load of new blokes joining in?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you're right, but was Benaud a flick backwards slider bowler or a let it slide out of the fingers type?
I found a reference to a bloke (Can't remember his name at the moment) that preceded Benaud with the Slider - showed it to him on the train, the story goes. Philpott says that most Aussies had at least 2 back-spinners during that period. But Macca's pointed me to a reference for Grimmett that's probably the earliest yet.
we need to stop calling the backspinner a slider, because it gets too confusing. i think on this forum we should all agree on calling it the Zooter, because if everyone starts using the same terminology then it will catch on and the confusion will end.
the Slider, as dictated by Warne, is a scrambled seam delivery comprising either rolling the fingers down the back of the ball, or purposely bowling a leg break cross seam. the goal being to disguise the delivery as a normal leg break, but for it to carry straight on.
the Zooter is a MUCH more difficult delivery to bowl, and comprises of a "round-the-loop" delivery that imparts pure backspin with a perfect seam rotation. Warne is the only professional leg spin bowler of the modern era to have ever claimed, or be credited, with being able to bowl the delivery, to the best of my knowledge. i can bowl it on demand now, its as consistent as my leg break, and my main variation. so it is absolutely possible to bowl, and ive got videos of it on YouTube to prove it
who did it first is always going to be up for debate though. Benaud maybe, but he says the flipper was a flying saucer delivery and not a backspinner, so im not too inclined to believe much of what he says. he comes out with some horrendously contradicting comments at times.
Macca - glad to hear your lad is still going well
as for the Gatting ball being a fluke, it wasnt really a fluke in so much as it shouldnt have done what it did, it was a fluke in that bowling that delivery first ball is never something you would expect yourself to be able to do. the ball was bowled with absolutely perfect form, i dont think the pitch played any part whatsoever in what it did (it didnt turn that big, it was the drift that was amazing and look at how much English pace bowlers swing the ball, English conditions are just kind to lateral movement in flight), and it was just literally the perfect leg break. there was nothing flukey about that, just absolutely perfect technique from Warne. the fluke is that he did it from cold with his first ball against England, but ultimately he has repeated the feat on multiple occasions since. none of those balls got the same recognition because the circumstances were different, but fluke definitely isnt a word i would use in the same sentence as Shane Warne.
the Slider, as dictated by Warne, is a scrambled seam delivery comprising either rolling the fingers down the back of the ball, or purposely bowling a leg break cross seam. the goal being to disguise the delivery as a normal leg break, but for it to carry straight on.
the Zooter is a MUCH more difficult delivery to bowl, and comprises of a "round-the-loop" delivery that imparts pure backspin with a perfect seam rotation. Warne is the only professional leg spin bowler of the modern era to have ever claimed, or be credited, with being able to bowl the delivery, to the best of my knowledge. i can bowl it on demand now, its as consistent as my leg break, and my main variation. so it is absolutely possible to bowl, and ive got videos of it on YouTube to prove it
who did it first is always going to be up for debate though. Benaud maybe, but he says the flipper was a flying saucer delivery and not a backspinner, so im not too inclined to believe much of what he says. he comes out with some horrendously contradicting comments at times.Macca - glad to hear your lad is still going well
as for the Gatting ball being a fluke, it wasnt really a fluke in so much as it shouldnt have done what it did, it was a fluke in that bowling that delivery first ball is never something you would expect yourself to be able to do. the ball was bowled with absolutely perfect form, i dont think the pitch played any part whatsoever in what it did (it didnt turn that big, it was the drift that was amazing and look at how much English pace bowlers swing the ball, English conditions are just kind to lateral movement in flight), and it was just literally the perfect leg break. there was nothing flukey about that, just absolutely perfect technique from Warne. the fluke is that he did it from cold with his first ball against England, but ultimately he has repeated the feat on multiple occasions since. none of those balls got the same recognition because the circumstances were different, but fluke definitely isnt a word i would use in the same sentence as Shane Warne.
Then Cricinfo and the ICC must be from another planet as well:
As the ICC recently admitted, some degree of elbow straightening has been detected in 99% of bowlers, including the likes of Courtney Walsh and Glenn McGrath. By the letter of the law as it has stood for over a century, thus, most bowlers are chuckers. In the light of this, the law clearly needs to be amended, and the ICC has tried to do just that, with its recommended guidelines of what degree of flexion is permissable. These guidelines, as Mukul Kesavan explains in the excellent piece that I linked to in my last post, are arbitary, and should be modified so that they are "uniform and enforcable".
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/135220.html--
Unfortunately the news link given in that paragraph in that article is no longer valid as this was way back in 2004. Even Murali commented about it, which is also on cricinfo as well.
EDIT: Here's another, more detailed, piece on it:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/141558.html
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Your Zooter is the Real Slider for as you say it's a stable mate of all the other wrist spin deliveries, so I think we should stick with convention and called it the Slider.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
From elsewhere...............
Wrist Spin Bowling
The Zooter
The grip - The ball is held much further back in the
palm of the hand, which holds the ball back as you let it go.
The delivery - The ball is pushed out the front of the
hand, from the palm, and either floats or skids through the air,
maybe swinging in a little.
The seam is straight up and down and the zooter does not spin.
And a couple of illustrations of:
No-where does it say anything about flicking the ball as you would with a proper wrist spin delivery.
Wrist Spin Bowling
The Zooter
The grip - The ball is held much further back in the
palm of the hand, which holds the ball back as you let it go.
The delivery - The ball is pushed out the front of the
hand, from the palm, and either floats or skids through the air,
maybe swinging in a little.
The seam is straight up and down and the zooter does not spin.
And a couple of illustrations of:
No-where does it say anything about flicking the ball as you would with a proper wrist spin delivery.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Looking around the consensus is that the Zooter is a ball bowled with little or no spin out of the front of the hand, sounds almost as innocious as the Knuckle Ball, but obviously can be used to good affect if bowled as a variation when the batsman is looking to play for spin.
macca
Active Member
Macca, some of us did highlight the benefit of having a decent keeper before the start of the season
Yeah i remember what you said TonyM.
I am trying to arrange a few sessions with the second WK. He really needs to have a good look at what my son bowls
But yesterday i thought jeeze the no1 keeper is so good they dont need to do any special training together. The 2 stumpings he has pulled off were absolutely brilliant and he hasn't fumbled a ball or let go a bye yet.
it makes such a huge difference to have a first rate keeper.