Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Top Contributors
I had my first lesson today. Mark picked up straight away that I am basically bowling topspinners all the time. We tried getting my arm lower so I could get more around the side of the ball. He had me flick the ball back into my chest from out in front of me to get the fingers working properly. When I got it working it had good results although it didn't work often and Ill need quite a bit more practice. He got me to wear my cap side ways and so I had to keep my arm lower so I didnt hit my cap.
He bowled his leg break with a seam square to the direction of travel and literaly turned it a metre on the synthetic. Mine still had a lot of topspin on them but I think that is better. The other thing was getting side on and then rotating my shoulders and body right through 180 degrees. Lastly I was bringing my bowling arm straight down on follw through and not across my body to the left.
He had a very encouraging manner and the best thing I liked was it was more suggestions to try this and that and see what worked. There wasn't any hard and fast rules. He said it was still fine to bowl with a high arm and use the round arm leg break as a variation as he was impressed with the amout of bounce I got. He had another guy doing a session straight after me and he said he had the same problem as me but was now bowling ripping leg breaks so thats encouraging.
Having a chat with him at the end of the session was interesting. He had been coached by Philpott and coached kids with Philpott. He also said that when Terry Jenner coached him at the Cricket acadamy and that he really stuffed him up because he tried to turn him into a Warne clone.
I'm going to practice what he taught me and then see him again in a couple of weeks time.
 
chippyben said:
I had my first lesson today. Mark picked up straight away that I am basically bowling topspinners all the time. We tried getting my arm lower so I could get more around the side of the ball. He had me flick the ball back into my chest from out in front of me to get the fingers working properly. When I got it working it had good results although it didn't work often and Ill need quite a bit more practice. He got me to wear my cap side ways and so I had to keep my arm lower so I didnt hit my cap.
He bowled his leg break with a seam square to the direction of travel and literaly turned it a metre on the synthetic. Mine still had a lot of topspin on them but I think that is better. The other thing was getting side on and then rotating my shoulders and body right through 180 degrees. Lastly I was bringing my bowling arm straight down on follw through and not across my body to the left.
He had a very encouraging manner and the best thing I liked was it was more suggestions to try this and that and see what worked. There wasn't any hard and fast rules. He said it was still fine to bowl with a high arm and use the round arm leg break as a variation as he was impressed with the amout of bounce I got. He had another guy doing a session straight after me and he said he had the same problem as me but was now bowling ripping leg breaks so thats encouraging.
Having a chat with him at the end of the session was interesting. He had been coached by Philpott and coached kids with Philpott. He also said that when Terry Jenner coached him at the Cricket acadamy and that he really stuffed him up because he tried to turn him into a Warne clone.
I'm going to practice what he taught me and then see him again in a couple of weeks time.
Click to expand...

Nice one Ben some good insights there for the rest of us, it's good to see that the old Philpott inward flick is being advocated by professional coaches in order to get the 'Biggun' going and yeah you're right - when you involve the fingers that much as you need to with the inward flick it does un-do your accuracy. I reckon the this is one of the key differences between the 'Rollers' and the 'Flickers' amongst us. I'm primarily a 'Roller', but I'm so acutely aware that in order to get the 'Biggun' working you have to flick it violently off the fingers in order that it comes out spinning square and for me, like you might be experiencing it takes a great deal of concentration and practice to get it consistent, but when it works you can feel that it has done and you'll then see the turn off the wicket. The point about the arm coming across the body is an interesting one as well, I'll have to try that, I've got the first of pre-seasons nets this Monday and I'll take some of this advice along to nets with me and give it a go. Keep it coming as it very much appreciated and it feels like we're not working completely in the dark if we get some of our theory confirmed by a pro coach.

The low arm thing has always been something Macca has encouraged amongst all of us
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Nice one Ben some good insights there for the rest of us, it's good to see that the old Philpott inward flick is being advocated by professional coaches in order to get the 'Biggun' going and yeah you're right - when you involve the fingers that much as you need to with the inward flick it does un-do your accuracy. I reckon the this is one of the key differences between the 'Rollers' and the 'Flickers' amongst us. I'm primarily a 'Roller', but I'm so acutely aware that in order to get the 'Biggun' working you have to flick it violently off the fingers in order that it comes out spinning square and for me, like you might be experiencing it takes a great deal of concentration and practice to get it consistent, but when it works you can feel that it has done and you'll then see the turn off the wicket. The point about the arm coming across the body is an interesting one as well, I'll have to try that, I've got the first of pre-seasons nets this Monday and I'll take some of this advice along to nets with me and give it a go. Keep it coming as it very much appreciated and it feels like we're not working completely in the dark if we get some of our theory confirmed by a pro coach.

The low arm thing has always been something Macca has encouraged amongst all of us
Click to expand...

I'd been doing the Philpott thing of flicking the ball from left to right and have basically ingrained the topspinner as my stock ball. I was even starting to try and really cup it right over in the xmas hols and starting getting a wrong un. The bonus being I can now bowl the wrong un with some consistancy.( Now I understand why you said the wrong un feels so natural) I can bowl a big leg break that I really push out of the front of the hand between the 3rd and spinning finger and it turns nicely but it doesn't have the shape I want. Its very flat and bounces low, good for a quicker ball though. Basically I am missing the ball where the seam is rotating towards 2nd-3rd slip with plenty of top spin.(The standard leg break, pretty important for a leg spinner I'd say!!!) which gets the nice dip and bounce I want. He showed me that with my high action I was going to struggle to get it.
The big thing that I took away from him was that its very much an individual thing as to how you obtain it but gave me plenty of ideas to work with and try and hopefully one works. He pointed out his action and how it wasn't perfect but had learnt to work with it. Spin it hard was his main point though. I was encouraged that he said I was giving it a really good flick and getting lots of bounce and have good pace.
I'll definately keep passing on the advice.
 
chippyben said:
I had my first lesson today. Mark picked up straight away that I am basically bowling topspinners all the time. We tried getting my arm lower so I could get more around the side of the ball. He had me flick the ball back into my chest from out in front of me to get the fingers working properly. When I got it working it had good results although it didn't work often and Ill need quite a bit more practice. He got me to wear my cap side ways and so I had to keep my arm lower so I didnt hit my cap.
He bowled his leg break with a seam square to the direction of travel and literaly turned it a metre on the synthetic. Mine still had a lot of topspin on them but I think that is better. The other thing was getting side on and then rotating my shoulders and body right through 180 degrees. Lastly I was bringing my bowling arm straight down on follw through and not across my body to the left.
He had a very encouraging manner and the best thing I liked was it was more suggestions to try this and that and see what worked. There wasn't any hard and fast rules. He said it was still fine to bowl with a high arm and use the round arm leg break as a variation as he was impressed with the amout of bounce I got. He had another guy doing a session straight after me and he said he had the same problem as me but was now bowling ripping leg breaks so thats encouraging.
Having a chat with him at the end of the session was interesting. He had been coached by Philpott and coached kids with Philpott. He also said that when Terry Jenner coached him at the Cricket acadamy and that he really stuffed him up because he tried to turn him into a Warne clone.
I'm going to practice what he taught me and then see him again in a couple of weeks time.
Click to expand...


sounds fantastic you lucky swine, wish I had a leg spin coach so close. sounds like he really knows what he's on about as well. good to see he's getting you arm lower, you'll be so satisfied when you start seeing it rip consistently. can't wait to see what he has to say about variations in the coming lessons. did you chat about them at all or was it very much focused on the stock ball? be interesting to pick his brain about history of LS as well, see if he's got the bug as badly as we all have! he is actually a link on the leg spin family tree having been taught by Philpott so i wonder if the OBS has been officially passed on to him...
 
I don't reckon he'll say much about variations - they'll all come together in time once you master the leg break and the variations of the leg break - surely that'll be the focus of what he's teaching you. He does sound like a bloke that follows in the footsteps of Philpott.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I don't reckon he'll say much about variations - they'll all come together in time once you master the leg break and the variations of the leg break - surely that'll be the focus of what he's teaching you. He does sound like a bloke that follows in the footsteps of Philpott.
Click to expand...

you can always ask! might as well have a chat about it even if you don't focus on it during the bulk of the lesson. i mean how many people do you meet who would a) give a shit and b) actually have something interesting to say about the subject.
 
Yeah true, I'd just be worried about my money being used on talk rather than direct coaching!! I'd feel like I used to in driving lessons where the bloke would pull over for 15 minutes and talk rather than let me drive around:)
 
luckydip said:
I wonder if this bloke (coach) would join us here and share some of his wisdom?:)
Click to expand...

it would be great if he did. but at the same time id fully understand if he didnt, because when you make a living from something you probably arent going to give away all your best secrets for free in the public domain. i have the same thing with my job, you have to give away enough information to attract people to use your services, but not too much that your services then become redundant lol.

i still think Shane Warne is holding all of his best advice close to his chest until he decides what he is going to do with it. and its understandable. occasionally he will let slip a nugget, but mostly he is just giving the same old advice over and over again now when he does his masterclasses and commentary. but then again, aside from the universal advice you probably need to speak with someone one-on-one about their own specific action in order to give more specific advice.
 
i played 2 indoor games last night. both against a side that plays ECB Premier (their A's and B's), but because its just Sunday indoor cricket they dont field full strength sides. there were still a few very good players though, some of whom play first XI league cricket for them. we had a decent side, made up mostly of our 2nd XI league players. we got beaten in both games, but not by much, we were just too slack with our bowling and fielding.

i bowled 6 overs. i dont look at my indoor figures because they are depressing, i probably went at about 8-12 an over. but then they both scored at 12-14 an over across their innings, so by that reasoning i bowled fairly tightly lol. i only bowled 3 balls for extras, and only one of them was a wide!! thats the most consistent ive ever been. only 1 long hop, and one arm ball that dropped short for no balls. and only 1 overpitched ball that was only marginally overpitched and got me a dot! everything else was on the money, or somewhere close.

and aside from consistency and accuracy that i havent achieved to that degree in the past, i was turning the ball every delivery!! it was the oldest ball ive used indoors (where old balls are a huge disadvantage for spinners, you want a brand new one with a sharp seam on it, old ones get scuffed and the seam wears off), but i bowled with my full action and didnt take energy off the ball. something ive consciously been trying to correct recently. and thus i must just get better revs on it or something, because a few turned big. one landed way outside leg stump and the batsman wanted to leave it for a wide, but it turned and bounce and ended up hitting him in the thigh pad for a dot ball. despite the quality of opposition, none of them were comfortable with leaving balls outside leg. and none of them looked that comfortable coming down the pitch at me. i got hit for a few sixes, although all bar probably 2 should have been fielded, 3 by myself that were also all catching opportunities that i just failed to get hands on. i got sort of dropped on one as well, it was only a half chance. and had a stumping missed.

mostly though i was just beating the outside edge, or batsmen were just getting faint touches on the ball to keep it out. outdoors it would have been probably 4 or 5 maiden overs. indoors with the walls so close and the scoring system the way it is, good balls were hit exactly where id want them to be hit outdoors (e.g. i was in total control), but they went for 3 or 6 runs. its just the nature of the game. i also bowled 2nd over so i was bowling to the best batsmen, who were probably all significantly higher standard than i ever face in league cricket for my club. and when ive faced players of that calibre in the past, theyve always dealt with me a LOT more easily. so im definitely making huge improvements.

my current club doesnt seem to do proper indoor nets, which im disappointed about. i might try and get something organised as if we can get 20+ players to pay for 6 weeks up front then we could book out a local cricket centre for 90 mins a week without it costing the earth. otherwise i just have to get someone else to come along and we pay £12/hour each for a net lane. its expensive, but also very worthwhile when its one-on-one as you dont have to wait to bowl whilst 5 other guys have their go. the outdoor season will be here before we know it, so i havent got long left now to make the further improvements i want to. im targetting first XI league cricket this season, so i need to be sharp at the start of the season to capitalise on the possibility of that happening. there isnt a frontline spinner at the club, so the opportunity is there waiting.
 
luckydip said:
I wonder if this bloke (coach) would join us here and share some of his wisdom?:)
Click to expand...

As Jim says - if this is his job, he's not going to be interested in the slightest. A case in point was the excellent 'taster' video that used to be on youtube from the David Freedman cricket coaching mob. I reckon that was taken down due to the fact that it wasn't drumming up any business, but the little info that was there on-line was so good it was being used all over the place to help people out with anyone paying for it. There's a few places on the internet that try and sell their wares as on-line coaching products, I'd love to hear from anyone that's ever paid for them and what they think of the product that was delivered.
 
Jim2109 said:
targetting first XI league cricket this season, so i need to be sharp at the start of the season to capitalise on the possibility of that happening. there isnt a frontline spinner at the club, so the opportunity is there waiting.
Click to expand...

Well you have set yourself a goal for the next season or so, which is great. A few plans and a lot of work and a bit of luck you will get there. No frontline spinner at the club gives you a big break if you can grab it. And if it doesn't work out at that club then when you turn up at another club you will be a better bowler and make a good impression.

That sounds to me like you went well last night. Considering the opposition and it being indoor, if you could draw a line from that form and transfer it outdoors you should start this season in good nick.

Your'e right about needing to be sharp at the start of the season, especially the spinner. When you bowl in front of the captain and selectors at the start if you can impress enough by making every ball count and look good they will most likely give you a go.
 
My first net session is tonight at 9pm! It's with my old team and I'll go along to theirs for the first few weeks and then when the new lot get there's underway that'll be the regular slot. I was hoping they'd be on seperate nights and I'd have gone along to both. Been doing some light training in readiness, but will have to be careful - loads of warming up prior to the session and then warming down after. I reckon my knees are going to be a problem this year though, I'll have to see how it goes. I'm looking forward to picking up where I left off last October as it was all looking very promising less the Titch Freeman skip. I've even been looking at incorporating the conventional bound recently as it seems as though I could do it given some practice? I'll have to see how it goes.
 
An hours bowling in the nets with 6 others - what does that equate to 15 balls maybe? It's not a lot when you think about it and tonight I was wondering if it's worth it? But then you do get a chance to observe batsmen and their approaches to different bowling. Went okay considering - line and length a bit wayward, but noticed the floaty balls were the most problematic.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
An hours bowling in the nets with 6 others - what does that equate to 15 balls maybe? It's not a lot when you think about it and tonight I was wondering if it's worth it? But then you do get a chance to observe batsmen and their approaches to different bowling. Went okay considering - line and length a bit wayward, but noticed the floaty balls were the most problematic.
Click to expand...

When you bowl solo in the nets a lot bowling at training and having to wait for 4-5 other bowlers is so irritating. Worse too is everyone starts bowling their version of rubbish offies or leggies after a while as they tire and all going oooh ahhh if one turns in the slightest or doesnt get belted.
I reckon you have made the most out of it though by really observing what the batsman do.
 
luckydip said:
I wonder if this bloke (coach) would join us here and share some of his wisdom?:)
Click to expand...

I'll definately pass on all I learn from him but Im not really that comfortable asking him to contribute hear until I know him a bit better and have more lessons. As Dave says giving out info free might not appeal to him. I'm going to try and have a quick yarn with him about variations next time though.
 
I reckon I'll be going to nets with a slightly different agenda this year. In the past its just been a bit of a work out and have a laugh while you try something out. Thing is as I've implied and as Chippy's said it's frustrating when you are trying something and it doesn't quite come out right, because you then want to pick the ball up saying 'Whoa - hold on - hold on! Just let me try that again quickly as I nearly had that then' which obviously you can't do. Yeah this year I reckon I'll keep things dead simple going right back to basics - Leg Break, wrong un and the over-spun wrong un, but with the key agenda of watching the batsmen as they play all the other bowlers looking to identify their weaknesses and then bowl to exploit the weakness rather than spend time with a few balls looking for the weakness myself. If I can step up to the crease and bowl straight into their weak aspect of the game through observation before an over it strikes me that I'm going to be more affective?
 
I practiced a few times this week working hard on the stuff we'd gone through in the lesson. After an hour or so it really clicked and I was turning the ball twice as far as I have ever turned it!!! It was extrodinary really the difference. The thing is I was so close to doing it myself and it was so obvious looking on it now but it just needed someone to point it out.
Basically from Philpotts exercises of
1) Flicking the ball from right to left across the body and
2) Holding the ball out in front and flicking it back to the chest
my understanding was that exercise 1 was practicing the wrist action and release (out of the back of the hand) for, depending on where the hand was facing at release for the wrong un, top spinner and leg break with top spin.(i.e seam pointing towards 2nd slip). Exercise 2 being for the square or Hard spun Leg break and for backspinning deliveries. This exercise pushes the ball more out of the front of the hand, more between the 2nd and and 3rd(spinning finger)or so it feels. More work is done with the fingers as the wrist doesn't rotate as much as in exercise 2.

Now where I was going wrong is that exercise 1 is for the wrong un and topspinner and not the top spinning leg break as I had thought. Exercise 2 is for the topspinning legbreak all the way round to the the backspinner. That combined with a lower arm allows a bigger flick and getting around the side of the ball when doing the wrist action from exercise 2.
I had been using the front of the hand flick from exercise 2 for the square hard spun leg break with good results already but had been persisting with exercise 1's wrist action for the topspinning leg break.
Hopefully that makes some sense. Its an individual thing really but that seems to be the way that works for me and it was money well spent on the lesson.
 
Last quick post today. We had a one dayer, got rolled for a paltry 117 and got them all out for 62. Great win and puts us over a game clear at the top of the table. And for the English on here, todays game was played in temps of 30 degrees and oppressive humidity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top