Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

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Well Smith copped a bit of a hiding at the hands of the Sri Lankans last night.

He only bowled 2 good legbreaks i reckon. One got him a wicket. Too short, especially for Perth.

Finishing with 6,4,6 off last 3 balls would have to knock your confidence.

His batting and fielding will see he gets plenty more games but I never fully trust a legspinner that can bat or field too good. It is evidence of a mispent youth. You can end up the worst of all things, the dreaded " legspinning allrounder"

Grimmett's extraordinary advise for legspinners was , study batsmanship thoroughly but never score more than 20-30 runs yourself, unless absolutely necessary. Too much batting is bad for the hands.( though he played in an era of minimal protection like rolled up socks as thigh guards and flimsy gloves etc). So grimmett chose to throw away many an innings, he reckoned. That was some of the advise that Bradman thought was completely ridiculous and irresponsible in grimmetts books. But really it is classic grimmett humour.

This season we have decided to not practise batting much at all other than a bucket of throwdowns every few days and team training. He is in such a strong batting team anyway but keeping his legspin spot on will take most of our available traing time.
 
I follow Grimmetts theory religiously, never making too many runs!!!! lol
A true bowler only sees batting as a side show and a bit of fun and a chance to show up the batsmen on occasions when there is a collapse but never takes it seriously in my opinion.
 
Just some new information I have found recently on arm/shoulder stretches. Don't do them. Apparently any warmup that aims to loosen the shoulder, like putting your arm behind your back and pulling on the elbow, will actually over-loosen it. The shoulder is already the loosest joint in the body, and when you overloosen you lose the ability to store elastic energy, and more serious than that -- you may actually increase risk for injury.

Apparently even stranger for fast bowlers, leg stretches might be just as bad. One hypothesis is that pace diminishes not only due to stamina but by running in hard and off a longer run up your lower body deteriorates such that you simply again lose that ability to store elastic energy as you deliver.

Of course I am not saying do not warm up. As you get older your body atrophies and so you are naturally stiffer and need to loosen up. However for those who are younger -- stretching the shoulder will not help and may well be both injury-wise and performance-wise counterproductive.
 
Just watching the Aus Sri Lanka one dayer and Channel 9 has a fancy new gimmick. The protractor that measures the angle of turn. They have'nt put it on Smith yet but the offie Doherty got 5 degrees.
 
I had training tonight and had an absolute blinder. Everything was working great and even getting some nice drift. I got our opening batsmen out 6 times and every other batsman out at least twice. My length was spot on and I finally bowled at training at my best. Everyone was saying I should get a go at bowling it on the weekend so hopefully they tell my captain who wasn't there tonight. To be honest they rely on my pace bowling too much and our bowling depth isn't great so Im not holding out too much hope.
 
chippyben said:
I had training tonight and had an absolute blinder. Everything was working great and even getting some nice drift. I got our opening batsmen out 6 times and every other batsman out at least twice. My length was spot on and I finally bowled at training at my best. Everyone was saying I should get a go at bowling it on the weekend so hopefully they tell my captain who wasn't there tonight. To be honest they rely on my pace bowling too much and our bowling depth isn't great so Im not holding out too much hope.
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Do your blokes have a problem with legspin normally ?
 
I'd say most of our blokes struggle against any good spin bowling but Ive only seen 2 good spinners in all our 6 grades and they are both offies. The best leg spinner I have seen is the young pommy kid in 6th grade. The others are just lobbers and don't get any turn. Its amazing really when you think back to Warnes era and how every young kid was bowling leg spin, you would think that now there would be an abundance of young leggies in grades everywhere but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Maybe its just the instant gratification generation couldn't stick with it. I don't think synthetic wickets help the budding spinner either.
The blokes in my team play without even thinking of the possibilty of it turning so when it does they are in all sorts of trouble. I guess they are just used to offies that only turn it slightly most times. The other thing is they can't handle the extra bounce I get but the most dissappointing thing is they don't seem to adapt to it either. I'd say the extra bounce is the best weapon especially on synthetic wickets, especially combined with their hard hands.
Having said all that I'm pretty confident if I bowled really well like I did last night against good batters against spin I would worry them too.
Doesn't look good for any cricket this saturday mate (El Nina)
 
I'm with you on the assumption that there would be loads of Leggies, but I reckon there have been and still are, but...... We're still viewed with scepticism. On one hand the rest of our team mates know the potential of Wrist Spinning because they've all got access to TV, video, computers and books and the media and they've all seen and no doubt marvelled at Warne. But on the same hand they'll be using Warne as the benchmark somewhat unrealistically and even if we're not turning it as much as Warne they'll be expecting wickets.

Just the handful of people on here with their experiences of bowling Wrist Spin are probably fairly representative of what happens across the world e.g. we'll be given a chance and possibly suffered in the 2nd and 3rd XI's, but we'll probably be issued the short straw much of the time when pitched against seamers and efficient Finger spinners with their far more easily acquired accuracy. No doubt off the back of the Warne phenomenon there has been many more kids trying Wrist Spin, but you've only got to read the Grimmett and Peter Philpott books to get a sense of the determination and conviction that is required to become a young wrist spinner unless of course you have got a very natural talent for it and that in itself may carry a kid through to his teenage years. But the majority of the Warne protege's will fall by the wayside when they -

  • Get hit over the boundary
  • Get slated by their mates and see everyones heads dropping as they see you lose the game for them
  • Get minimal overs
  • Only get brought on at the end of the game to bowl at the tail-enders when there's a secured win
  • Run into trouble when you can't nail the variations
  • Lose their way/turn for a couple of months
  • Get themselves a girlfriend
  • Get themselves a new XBOX
  • See the Finger spinners and seamers taking far more wickets then they do
  • Realise that you have to practice more than all the others
  • Don't get picked to play
  • Develop blisters on your fingers
  • See your chances for wickets being dropped in every match
  • Get affected by the 'Growth spurt syndrome' during puberty
The list goes on and on and it's easy to see why all those kids get filtered out. But I'm sure in comparison to the situation from the late 1960's to the mid 90's there are far more Wrist Spinners out there. Yeah - we're eyed with uncertainty as captains ponder our effectiveness, but it's down to us to keep on practicing and practcing ensuring our line and length is right and that we can turn the ball and prove our worth. Yeah, it's not easy, but isn't that why we love it and when it comes good it is very special and then everyone including all the detractors are reminded why it is that we're different and that we have to be considered in a different way and encouraged?
 
Went to turn my arm round today after about 4 months. Tried to go with the vertical arm but failed woefully. I must be like spiderlounge, I seem to find it impossible to go beyond 50 degrees if you consider 90 degrees as being vertical. Was consistently short ie about 6-7 metres from the stumps despite trying to pitch fuller although line was better.

Was disappointed to see Mishra omitted once again from the starting 11 by india to play a left orthodox. Seems to be the fashion even in india. I really like his action
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1330741171573843315#
 
someblokecalleddave said:
... But the majority of the Warne protege's will fall by the wayside when they -
  • Get hit over the boundary
  • Get slated by their mates and see everyones heads dropping as they see you lose the game for them
  • Get minimal overs
  • Only get brought on at the end of the game to bowl at the tail-enders when there's a secured win
  • Run into trouble when you can't nail the variations
  • Lose their way/turn for a couple of months
  • Get themselves a girlfriend
  • Get themselves a new XBOX
  • See the Finger spinners and seamers taking far more wickets then they do
  • Realise that you have to practice more than all the others
  • Don't get picked to play
  • Develop blisters on your fingers
  • See your chances for wickets being dropped in every match
  • Get affected by the 'Growth spurt syndrome' during puberty
The list goes on and on and it's easy to see why all those kids get filtered out. But I'm sure in comparison to the situation from the late 1960's to the mid 90's there are far more Wrist Spinners out there. Yeah - we're eyed with uncertainty as captains ponder our effectiveness, but it's down to us to keep on practicing and practcing ensuring our line and length is right and that we can turn the ball and prove our worth. Yeah, it's not easy, but isn't that why we love it and when it comes good it is very special and then everyone including all the detractors are reminded why it is that we're different and that we have to be considered in a different way and encouraged?
Click to expand...

Great list Dave, as someone who gave up wrist spinning and cricket in my teens only to return as a coach in my 40s I can relate to some of the items on that list. This forum is great for me in that it MAKES me think about how I can help potential leggies at my club and for me the crucial thing is finding lads who not only have the physical talent but, perhaps more than most other roles within a team, the mental strength to bowl leg spin. No one likes being whacked but a wrist spinner, particularly early in their development, is likely to go round the park which when coupled with teammates who wont always catch the ball when it is hit in the air requires a pretty tough mental outlook, when this is combined with the additional practice required to master their art you can see why not many make it out of youth set ups.

So this winter I aim to work with a lad who dabbled with leg spin last year and;
* give him some 'homework' drills he can do with his dad (he was pretty keen towards the end of last season and I did a couple of 1-to-1s with him)
* sit down with him and the captain and stess he gets his overs bar an attack of the yips (limit of 4 in their age group matches)
* and the team can always do with more work on catching but focus on high catches which is a bit weak

Anything else that you think I can do with him (will be his first off season / pre season with training) please feel free to add to the list (other than keeping him away from girls and Xboxes)
 
i had a bowl yesterday for the first time in about 3-4 weeks (last indoor game), and the first practice session ive had in nearer 2 months!! i got fed up of waiting for team mates to decide when they are available for an indoor practice, so rather than split the cost on an hour at the indoor cricket centre i had to stump up myself, but it was worth it. i was extremely rusty! but my gym work seems to be paying off already.

i started slowly but got gradually closer to where i was before my "rest" through the first 30 mins. then i started to find my old rhythm and improve upon it. i was landing balls with about 30% accuracy (with much tighter definitions of accurate than i normally use, i had 2 plastic poles laid down to mark length, and my acceptable length range spanned about 2 yards) and 20% turn consistency. when i found my rhythm that leapt to about 60% and 40%. then all of a sudden my action just clicked and i found the fabled hip drive and front toe pivot that ive never fully achieved before!!! it actually felt like my action would look like Shane Warnes, i was delivering the ball off of the front foot, weight over my toes, and that arm and leg alignment in the follow through that doctortran always shows screenshots of (im also more round arm, but probably not, im just staying upright so my arm isnt tilting over with my body). im sure a video camera would disagree, but it felt fantastic. then i found more like 90% accuracy (on line and length!), and 80% turn consistency. and were not just talking turn from middle to off, were talking turn from leg stump to hitting the side netting outside off before its passed the stumps!!! i was getting some absolute monster turn, the most turn ive ever had at any point in my "career" thus far.

i hate to speculate on such things, but it feels like my pace is up as well. ive definitely got it in me to hit 45-50mph now. i dont know that i was on a consistent basis though. it definitely looks faster than before, and knocking plastic stumps clean out of their base would verify that to some extent (ive practiced at the same nets a few times, and never done that before with the same set of stumps). i was bowling faster than the bowling machine in the lane next to me which said 40 on the dial (bowling at kids).

my teams next indoor match isnt for another 2 weeks which is annoying, then theres another match 2 weeks after that. hopefully il get the call-up for both. that will be 4 more matches. in the meantime i need to get a batsman down the nets with me for some more specific practice. but my action is definitely moving forwards. im spending 3-6 hours a week at the gym with a lot of that focussed on resistance training, but plenty of cardio too. so come next season i hope to be in the best physical shape of my life, and hopefully with a much more solid technique. next season is probably my last chance at progressing beyond lower club cricket, im not getting any younger.

i was gutted yesterday though as i planned to take my camcorder along and get some new video. but i forgot to put it on charge and the battery was completely dead :( il get video next time. i keep getting comments on my YouTube videos about things i do wrong (which im aware of anyway), but the videos are so old now that ive completely changed certain aspects and they arent even relevant.
 
sadspinner said:
Went to turn my arm round today after about 4 months. Tried to go with the vertical arm but failed woefully. I must be like spiderlounge, I seem to find it impossible to go beyond 50 degrees if you consider 90 degrees as being vertical. Was consistently short ie about 6-7 metres from the stumps despite trying to pitch fuller although line was better.

Was disappointed to see Mishra omitted once again from the starting 11 by india to play a left orthodox. Seems to be the fashion even in india. I really like his action
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1330741171573843315#
Click to expand...

If I am unbiased, I would say ojha is a better spinner than mishra is - his variations in loop, setting up the batsmen and nip off the wicket is better. Moreover, I don't think mishra is really an out and out aggressive bowler who is looking to get wickets. That's why he has to sit out for now. Hopefully he'll get better and force his way into the team
 
chippyben said:
Doesn't look good for any cricket this saturday mate (El Nina)
Click to expand...

I was glad we got washed out though, because my son was not 100% fit for this week-end. Didn't expect any change to comp table either but next week they could grab top spot.

Another example of extraordinary luck so far this season I reckon.
 
sadspinner said:
Went to turn my arm round today after about 4 months. Tried to go with the vertical arm but failed woefully. I must be like spiderlounge, I seem to find it impossible to go beyond 50 degrees if you consider 90 degrees as being vertical. Was consistently short ie about 6-7 metres from the stumps despite trying to pitch fuller although line was better.
Click to expand...
Hey Saddo, howzit going old mate ? Your'e a roundarmer, accept it! :D

Dont worry about the line, you gotta get that length. Measure where you pitch now and put down a tape, say, a couple of yards fuller and just try land it over that mark. At this stage a ball that lands off the pitch even, but over the marker is better than landing way shorter and on the stumps.
 
TonyM said:
Great list Dave, as someone who gave up wrist spinning and cricket in my teens only to return as a coach in my 40s I can relate to some of the items on that list. This forum is great for me in that it MAKES me think about how I can help potential leggies at my club and for me the crucial thing is finding lads who not only have the physical talent but, perhaps more than most other roles within a team, the mental strength to bowl leg spin. No one likes being whacked but a wrist spinner, particularly early in their development, is likely to go round the park which when coupled with teammates who wont always catch the ball when it is hit in the air requires a pretty tough mental outlook, when this is combined with the additional practice required to master their art you can see why not many make it out of youth set ups.

So this winter I aim to work with a lad who dabbled with leg spin last year and;
* give him some 'homework' drills he can do with his dad (he was pretty keen towards the end of last season and I did a couple of 1-to-1s with him)
* sit down with him and the captain and stess he gets his overs bar an attack of the yips (limit of 4 in their age group matches)
* and the team can always do with more work on catching but focus on high catches which is a bit weak

Anything else that you think I can do with him (will be his first off season / pre season with training) please feel free to add to the list (other than keeping him away from girls and Xboxes)
Click to expand...

Do you know a small part of me fanices the idea of helping a kid with his wrist spinning, but what with teaching 16-18 year olds photography as my job, it almost sounds like something that would be as demoralising as trying to teach photography, maybe even more so! I have trouble keeping my own 8 year old on board, although I do keep a very 'At arms length' approach with him for fear of putting him off and he does get on with it himself fairly well.

I would probably think the most useful thing you're already doing and that's the one to one thing. It's something I wish I could do with another wrist spinner myself - just bowling to a set of stumps with another bloke to act at the keeper, but him then watching what I'm doing and making suggestions as to what I should work on and keeping me focused on that one thing and watching what works with it and what doesn't. Without knowing the kid and what his weaknesses are I'm limited in what to suggest. On the day my son Joe does show an inclination to listen the thing I'm trying to get him be aware of is his rotation and bringing his leg up and round. I suppose if the kids got most of the basics mastered accuracy might be something to work on using a car mat or something like I do?
 
Check out 1chippyben at youtube. There are 2 videos from the 7 November. I have been bowling really well lately but I have tried to get big drive from my back leg and through the crease this week and it is taking a bit to get it all coordinated and I am still out of sync a lot of the time. I find when I try and drive with my back leg and pull down with my leading arm to get power through the action I tend to rush ahead with my bowling arm. I'm getting there though and the extra pace and spin I get is well worth persisting with.

I videoed myself last week and whilst bowling well I noticed I was leaning way to the left which in turn raised my bowling arm to the vertical or just past it. A bit like the video of Mishra Sadspinner linked a few posts ago. I have been trying to get my weight further to the right. I have noticed in the video I am again falling into my old habit of stepping across myself. If you look at the first ball on the video from behind you will see I really try and push through the action and get a bit off balance on the follow through.

Another thing I have noticed when driving with the back leg the front foot tends to land on the toes then the heel goes down and then back up onto the toes again. I noticed this is how Warnes foot lands too. When I don't drive through my heel lands first and then rolls up onto the toes just like running. Can someone tell me the significance or this?
Another thing I have been trying is to keep my head and therefore weight centered over my bodyas per doctortrans previous posts.
Tips are most welcome and one of Doctortrans brilliant analysis's would be greatly appreciated.
 
chippyben said:
Check out 1chippyben at youtube. There are 2 videos from the 7 November. I have been bowling really well lately but I have tried to get big drive from my back leg and through the crease this week and it is taking a bit to get it all coordinated and I am still out of sync a lot of the time. I find when I try and drive with my back leg and pull down with my leading arm to get power through the action I tend to rush ahead with my bowling arm. I'm getting there though and the extra pace and spin I get is well worth persisting with.

I videoed myself last week and whilst bowling well I noticed I was leaning way to the left which in turn raised my bowling arm to the vertical or just past it. A bit like the video of Mishra Sadspinner linked a few posts ago. I have been trying to get my weight further to the right. I have noticed in the video I am again falling into my old habit of stepping across myself. If you look at the first ball on the video from behind you will see I really try and push through the action and get a bit off balance on the follow through.

Another thing I have noticed when driving with the back leg the front foot tends to land on the toes then the heel goes down and then back up onto the toes again. I noticed this is how Warnes foot lands too. When I don't drive through my heel lands first and then rolls up onto the toes just like running. Can someone tell me the significance or this?
Another thing I have been trying is to keep my head and therefore weight centered over my bodyas per doctortrans previous posts.
Tips are most welcome and one of Doctortrans brilliant analysis's would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Yeah it looks pretty good, I reckon you should get the camera down the other end looking through the nets so that we get a view from the front and a better sense of where you're landing the ball and how much it's turning. Noted that your pivot foot is placed so that it faces slips right at the last moment, that's something I'm working on myself as mine always points forwards.I also noted that you seem to move across to the right like I used and then you over-rotate which was somthing our club coach always used to pick up on.

Have you ever tried that Beau Casson drill that used to be on you tube with the stand start drill that I've tried to reproduce? I reckon that's a really useful drill that has the potential to iron out loads of problems and it gets you focusing on some of the key elements in the delivery. I find when I'm working on one aspect of the delivery your focus and shape is then being upset with regards some of the other aspects that up till that point you were porbably happy with e.g. one minute things are fine then you change something to improve the turn and then you find that your flight or accuracy is then screwed.
 
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