Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

That little video clip is re-assuring to see in that you (Who I consider to be the most knowledgable amongst us on here) are posting that up as an example of a leg-break on the leg stump from outside of Leg. I think too much we're looking to bowl massive turning ball of the century type balls and yet a ball like this will do the job in many situations. I've got my first match in a couple of hours and I'm not getting the ball to turn big at all, but I'm not too fussed as I believe that a stock leg-break like this will see you to some wickets.

I was trying to demonstrate the line he needs to bowl indoors which has to be legstump or preferably a bit wider of leg because of the amount of turn he gets indoors.

I might start a thread dedicated to indoor spin bowling because there is no discussion going on that I can find anywhere else and we might rope in some more posters?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I was trying to demonstrate the line he needs to bowl indoors which has to be legstump or preferably a bit wider of leg because of the amount of turn he gets indoors.

I might start a thread dedicated to indoor spin bowling because there is no discussion going on that I can find anywhere else and we might rope in some more posters?

Yeah start one up, as you say there may be loads of interest?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

This is the kind of treatment my bowling got today..........YouTube - Lara vs Kaneria = Mayhem and this YouTube - Maharoof get 26 Runs for Shane Warne Over

 

[Boris]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Indoor cricket lines are much different to outdoor normal cricket. Indoors off spinners are actually more effective than leggies for once, you try to aim for spin back into about the hip. You are really actually trying to bowl a bad outdoor cricket ball to succeed indoors.

Outdoors you aim to get people playing straight to get the edge and whatnot, indoors you want them doing anything but because there is a big 7 runs to be made from hitting a gentle loopy straight shot. Force them into playing leg glances and let the keeper scoop up and take the bails off and run them out, most economical way as well.

 

[Shahbaz]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

This is the kind of treatment my bowling got today..........YouTube - Lara vs Kaneria = Mayhem and this YouTube - Maharoof get 26 Runs for Shane Warne Over

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what Warne was doing there. Really, it was some pretty dismal bowling. Though I do like how the commentator said 'Citi Moment for success'; a few friends of mine who watch the IPL for whatever reason have gotten tired of Citi moments of success, perhaps the commentators have too. The Lara one was understandable, though, given that Kaneria's not a great bowler, and Lara is, well, Lara, and also a southpaw.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what Warne was doing there. Really, it was some pretty dismal bowling. Though I do like how the commentator said 'Citi Moment for success'; a few friends of mine who watch the IPL for whatever reason have gotten tired of Citi moments of success, perhaps the commentators have too. The Lara one was understandable, though, given that Kaneria's not a great bowler, and Lara is, well, Lara, and also a southpaw.

It just makes me feel better about how crap I was on Sunday watching these kind of clips.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

It just makes me feel better about how crap I was on Sunday watching these kind of clips.

Perhaps this quote from Terry Jenner will also help to cheer you up:

When Warne was asked what a legspin bowler needs more than anything else, he said, "Love". What he meant was love and understanding. They need someone to put their arm around them and say, "Mate, its okay, tomorrow is another day." Because you get thumped, mate...

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Perhaps this quote from Terry Jenner will also help to cheer you up:

There was some of that, so I will pick myself up and bowl another day.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hey Dave, I've been watching your latest vids and wondered if there's something I've spotted that you could do to get your mojo working. It's got nothing to do with actual bowling technique though...

You seem to have a great big bucket of balls and just bowl your way through them for ages until you run out. That's fine when you're on form and in the groove, but I suspect it's a hindrance when you're not. I suggest you bowl fewer balls at a time then take a couple of minutes off, and in this way you will:
a) be less likely to build up frustration over time (although I did find it reassuring to see someone else pulling the same faces I do when I bowl...)
b) have more time and opportunity to analyse if and where you're going wrong and form a better plan of action to improve

The reason I say this is at the moment I'm usually bowling eight to ten balls at a time, then going and picking them out of the hedge, but one evening I was bowling badly and it was getting dark, so I only bowled my three white balls as they're the easiest to pick out of the greenery in low light, and I found I was making much more progress like that.

What d'ya think?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hey Dave, I've been watching your latest vids and wondered if there's something I've spotted that you could do to get your mojo working. It's got nothing to do with actual bowling technique though...

You seem to have a great big bucket of balls and just bowl your way through them for ages until you run out. That's fine when you're on form and in the groove, but I suspect it's a hindrance when you're not. I suggest you bowl fewer balls at a time then take a couple of minutes off, and in this way you will:
a) be less likely to build up frustration over time (although I did find it reassuring to see someone else pulling the same faces I do when I bowl...)
b) have more time and opportunity to analyse if and where you're going wrong and form a better plan of action to improve

The reason I say this is at the moment I'm usually bowling eight to ten balls at a time, then going and picking them out of the hedge, but one evening I was bowling badly and it was getting dark, so I only bowled my three white balls as they're the easiest to pick out of the greenery in low light, and I found I was making much more progress like that.

What d'ya think?

ive done the same at times. usually il bowl with 12 balls, but if im really struggling sometimes il only bowl with the best 2 or 3, the ones that are easiest to grip and spin, and most consistent off the pitch. it just gives you extra confidence when they actually do something off the wicket, and once your confidence goes up, so does your consistency.

if im bowling badly i also take a proper amount of time prior to my delivery, preparing myself, thinking what i want to bowl, spinning the ball between my hands, and then a few deep breaths. i find this helpful as well. and when i get to play a match this season im going to adopt the Shane Warne approach of slow over rates. the batsmen can wait. my mental preparation is more important.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hey Dave, I've been watching your latest vids and wondered if there's something I've spotted that you could do to get your mojo working. It's got nothing to do with actual bowling technique though...

You seem to have a great big bucket of balls and just bowl your way through them for ages until you run out. That's fine when you're on form and in the groove, but I suspect it's a hindrance when you're not. I suggest you bowl fewer balls at a time then take a couple of minutes off, and in this way you will:
a) be less likely to build up frustration over time (although I did find it reassuring to see someone else pulling the same faces I do when I bowl...)
b) have more time and opportunity to analyse if and where you're going wrong and form a better plan of action to improve

The reason I say this is at the moment I'm usually bowling eight to ten balls at a time, then going and picking them out of the hedge, but one evening I was bowling badly and it was getting dark, so I only bowled my three white balls as they're the easiest to pick out of the greenery in low light, and I found I was making much more progress like that.

What d'ya think?

No - this is not my normal modus operandi, this was just me trying to show off and demonstrate how consistent I am! Anyone can get their camera and record 1 phenomenal ball at a time or maybe six good balls, so I thought I'd show off - but as you can see it didn't work out that well! Normally I bowl 6 balls at a time and then go and collect them and think about what I'm doing and take my time walking back and in between balls.

Here look - here's the figures from that atrocious match on Sunday. It's nowhere near as bad as I thought it was although I was the worst. I think the biggest consolation was that my mate Wayne (simmons) went for 9.5 an over and he's been bowling spin for a decade or more and he's an off-spinner and potentially more accurate? Wrist Spin Bowling: Not as bad as I thought

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

No - this is not my normal modus operandi, this was just me trying to show off and demonstrate how consistent I am! Anyone can get their camera and record 1 phenomenal ball at a time or maybe six good balls, so I thought I'd show off - but as you can see it didn't work out that well! Normally I bowl 6 balls at a time and then go and collect them and think about what I'm doing and take my time walking back and in between balls.

Here look - here's the figures from that atrocious match on Sunday. It's nowhere near as bad as I thought it was although I was the worst. I think the biggest consolation was that my mate Wayne (simmons) went for 9.5 an over and he's been bowling spin for a decade or more and he's an off-spinner and potentially more accurate? Wrist Spin Bowling: Not as bad as I thought

a 6 off the first ball is harsh! next time try to use it as a positive - aggressive batsmen are wicket fodder (no matter how good they are, or how well theyve played themselves in), and any batsman that smashes a 6 first ball to a new bowler that hes never seen before is asking for it. even if you bowled him something horrendous, short and wide, it could still have turned on him. so he was taking an uncalculated risk.

if you ever find yourself in this situation again then take a minute or 2 to consider everything before you bowl another delivery. dont just think "get back on the horse", else youll get dispatched again. stand at the top of your run up, review your field placement, move a few players around to positions that might worry the batsmen and make him think, and just make sure the next delivery is pitched right up under his nose and cramps his shot as much as possible. i dont generally think that a "that was just a loosener" mentality works against a batsman who is THAT aggressive. they will just try to dominate you straight away, and once that happens youre screwed unless you formulate plans instantly.

a boundary first ball, followed by a dot ball, gives the bowler a substantial upper hand. it sends the message "you got lucky first ball, but now IM in control" (some sledging/aggressive body language helps as well). just getting stuck back into bowling without thinking things through says "i have no plan, you can smash me all day long".

maybe some food for thought? i cant wait to play again, ive picked up so much bowling wisdom over the winter, and i want to see what batsmen do against me in the middle. nets are so skewed that i have no idea where my overall game is at.

 

[legspinner_don]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I feel for you Dave. I've returned to nets and am bowling against some real class batsman (2 ex-Scotland players) and get hit a hell of a lot. I'm really struggling to to get it down properly and develop my game. Think I might relegate myself to the juniors net to give myself more of a chance!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

if im bowling badly i also take a proper amount of time prior to my delivery, preparing myself, thinking what i want to bowl, spinning the ball between my hands, and then a few deep breaths. i find this helpful as well. and when i get to play a match this season im going to adopt the Shane Warne approach of slow over rates. the batsmen can wait. my mental preparation is more important.

Grimmett used a different approach usually he tried to get through an over as quickly as possible and try and get on top that way. He was still dictating the pace of play to his advantage. The rare footage of Grimmett over shows how fast he slipped through an over and his incredibly dogged fielding off his own bowling.

Warne was the greatest I have seen at mind games over batsmen. You had to be at the SCG when he was at his peak to experience his greatness, you could feel the awe in the crowd at what we were witnessing. It must have been hard for batsman though Laxman and Tendulkar never seemed too overwhelmed facing him.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Grimmett used a different approach usually he tried to get through an over as quickly as possible and try and get on top that way. He was still dictating the pace of play to his advantage. The rare footage of Grimmett over shows how fast he slipped through an over and his incredibly dogged fielding off his own bowling.

Warne was the greatest I have seen at mind games over batsmen. You had to be at the SCG when he was at his peak to experience his greatness, you could feel the awe in the crowd at what we were witnessing. It must have been hard for batsman though Laxman and Tendulkar never seemed too overwhelmed facing him.

Grimmetts approach is interesting as well, but i cant help think it is slightly flawed. no matter how fast you get the ball back and go again, the batsman can step away whenever he likes and slow you down. it could put a little extra pressure on him, especially if players behind the bat sledge him (e.g. Jonathan Trott for England, who takes forever!). but i think making a player wait would probably have more effect in the modern game. im not sure how things were back in Grimmetts day, but id reckon on there being much less gamesmanship.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Grimmetts approach is interesting as well, but i cant help think it is slightly flawed. no matter how fast you get the ball back and go again, the batsman can step away whenever he likes and slow you down. it could put a little extra pressure on him, especially if players behind the bat sledge him (e.g. Jonathan Trott for England, who takes forever!). but i think making a player wait would probably have more effect in the modern game. im not sure how things were back in Grimmetts day, but id reckon on there being much less gamesmanship.

It must have been different because i thought the same thing, why didnt the batsman just slow him down and make him wait.

Wally Hammond described facing a Grimmett over as toughest examination possible. The thought of grimmett gave him sweats and nightmares he reckons, so something must have been going on.

Grimmett was deadpan, never celebrated a wicket, if he got someone out he usually sat down rested, chewed on a piece of grass or ate some of the dried fruit he always carried.

 

[Boris]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

It must have been different because i thought the same thing, why didnt the batsman just slow him down and make him wait.

Wally Hammond described facing a Grimmett over as toughest examination possible. The thought of grimmett gave him sweats and nightmares he reckons, so something must have been going on.

Grimmett was deadpan, never celebrated a wicket, if he got someone out he usually sat down rested, chewed on a piece of grass or ate some of the dried fruit he always carried.

Depends on the batsman if you want to quicken or slow down overrates. Do what they don't want, but I would say it's best to wait and settle your mind before bowling first of all.

Grimmett was bowling during a time of not much celebration anyway. They were still the times of the batsmen shaking hands with the bowler. A smile was normally all that was given out in celebration.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Depends on the batsman if you want to quicken or slow down overrates. Do what they don't want, but I would say it's best to wait and settle your mind before bowling first of all.

Grimmett was bowling during a time of not much celebration anyway. They were still the times of the batsmen shaking hands with the bowler. A smile was normally all that was given out in celebration.

That's right it was low key back then. Benaud always gets the blame for introducing the modern type celebration.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

That's right it was low key back then. Benaud always gets the blame for introducing the modern type celebration.

il bet compared to someone like Monty Panesar though his celebrations still look muted

how did people appeal back then? i notice at club level that most guys just turn to the umpire and ask in a normal outdoors voice "how was that?".

personally i turn, bent knees, arms raised, and yell it as loud as i can! i dont appeal unless i think its out, so it has more dramatic effect if you get in the umpires face with it. just asking a question shows a lack of certainty in my mind, and given that umpires at the level i play are just opposition batsmen anyway they generally wont give anything out unless the batsman walks.

 

[Boris]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I like a bit of both when it comes to the celebration. Nothing more exciting than seeing your favourite bowler having a good ol' time, but I would like to see the bowler to calm down a little and let the batsman give him some sort of congratulations. That's where I like Gayle, he always gives some sort of nod or a look at the bowler (even if it is Watson running at him like a crazed orangutan) and pretty much says 'you got me, good bowling'.

EDIT: @ Jim

The appeals changed quite quickly, but it was more of a formal question. They weren't really just yelling at the umpire, but asking actual words.