Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

il bet compared to someone like Monty Panesar though his celebrations still look muted

how did people appeal back then? i notice at club level that most guys just turn to the umpire and ask in a normal outdoors voice "how was that?".

personally i turn, bent knees, arms raised, and yell it as loud as i can! i dont appeal unless i think its out, so it has more dramatic effect if you get in the umpires face with it. just asking a question shows a lack of certainty in my mind, and given that umpires at the level i play are just opposition batsmen anyway they generally wont give anything out unless the batsman walks.

According to Ashley Malletts biography of grimmett on one occassion Grimmett got the umpire to appeal an LBW for him in an Adelaide club match. He had told the umpire before he bowled the ball that it was going to be his famous topspinner and the batsman would be out LBW and when he hit the bloke plumb in front it was the umpire who went up and appealed and grimmett turned to the official and said ' and that sir is out. lbw'

 

[Boris]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

According to Ashley Malletts biography of grimmett on one occassion Grimmett got the umpire to appeal an LBW for him in an Adelaide club match. He had told the umpire before he bowled the ball that it was going to be his famous topspinner and the batsman would be out LBW and when he hit the bloke plumb in front it was the umpire who went up and appealed and grimmett turned to the official and said ' and that sir is out. lbw'

Cheeky, cheeky man.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

a 6 off the first ball is harsh! next time try to use it as a positive - aggressive batsmen are wicket fodder (no matter how good they are, or how well theyve played themselves in), and any batsman that smashes a 6 first ball to a new bowler that hes never seen before is asking for it. even if you bowled him something horrendous, short and wide, it could still have turned on him. so he was taking an uncalculated risk.

if you ever find yourself in this situation again then take a minute or 2 to consider everything before you bowl another delivery. dont just think "get back on the horse", else youll get dispatched again. stand at the top of your run up, review your field placement, move a few players around to positions that might worry the batsmen and make him think, and just make sure the next delivery is pitched right up under his nose and cramps his shot as much as possible. i dont generally think that a "that was just a loosener" mentality works against a batsman who is THAT aggressive. they will just try to dominate you straight away, and once that happens youre screwed unless you formulate plans instantly.

a boundary first ball, followed by a dot ball, gives the bowler a substantial upper hand. it sends the message "you got lucky first ball, but now IM in control" (some sledging/aggressive body language helps as well). just getting stuck back into bowling without thinking things through says "i have no plan, you can smash me all day long".

maybe some food for thought? i cant wait to play again, ive picked up so much bowling wisdom over the winter, and i want to see what batsmen do against me in the middle. nets are so skewed that i have no idea where my overall game is at.

No - this bloke was good - have a look at my blog there's some more details now that I've come to terms with what happened and the bowling details http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2010/04/not-as-bad-as-i-thought.html .The first ball was right on the money - pitched up and on the stumps, possibly a little flat and fast. The young-un Callum Sellars did better with slower shorter balls and bagged himself a couple of Maidens and a wicket.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I feel for you Dave. I've returned to nets and am bowling against some real class batsman (2 ex-Scotland players) and get hit a hell of a lot. I'm really struggling to to get it down properly and develop my game. Think I might relegate myself to the juniors net to give myself more of a chance!

Yeah it's a killer being constantly smashed, it was definitely a bad psychological thing, I honestly thought I'd come away conceding in excess of over 100 runs, it's as though I didn't notice the singles and the dot balls, all I remembered was the ball clearing all the players and the 60' oak trees and ending up in the adjacent field 100 yards or more away, there were no fielding options. Might be an idea bowling to the less adept players if you're learning, getting hit all the time isn't going to allow you to see what you're capable of.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Grimmett was deadpan, never celebrated a wicket, if he got someone out he usually sat down rested, chewed on a piece of grass or ate some of the dried fruit he always carried.

Good old Grum!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

No - this bloke was good - have a look at my blog there's some more details now that I've come to terms with what happened and the bowling details Wrist Spin Bowling: Not as bad as I thought .The first ball was right on the money - pitched up and on the stumps, possibly a little flat and fast. The young-un Callum Sellars did better with slower shorter balls and bagged himself a couple of Maidens and a wicket.

he could be Brian Lara, but ultimately if he smashes a GOOD delivery for 6 off the first ball, regardless of the skill aspect, that is a massive risk.

for all he knew when that ball left your hand, you could have been better than Shane Warne. it could have dipped 2 yards shorter than he expected with a yard of drift on it, then turned back 2 yards across him. he made the assumption that it would do what he expected and played it as if it was straight.

thats a positive for a leg spinner. you know that hes going to attack EVERYTHING, and if you just keep bowling good deliveries its a 50/50 scenario (probably more like 90/10 in his favour) that he makes a mistake. thats the only way youre getting him out. in other words, just carrying on bowling will almost always end badly for the bowler against a top class batsman.

the way to move forwards is to completely rethink your setup. formulate plans, quickly. move fielders around (even if you dont feel you need to, move them a little bit anyway, you want to unsettle the batsman), and really think hard about what shot you then want him to play, and aim to bowl the delivery to create that situation. in this situation there is nothing negative about having lots of deep fielders on the catch, it makes the batsman think about whether hes willing to risk a lofted shot at the ropes. if you get him to nurdle a single then you can attack the other batsman who might not be so capable.

thats my opinion on it anyway. bowling like a robot (e.g. consistent line and length) will petrify and stifle players with lead feet and little aggression. but when you (not you specifically, any of us) come up against one of those batsmen that uses their feet and looks to smash spinners (even worse if theyre a leftie), you end up in a situation where you cant win. you end up with no idea what to do next, and either just keep trying to bowl the same ball, or try every variation youve got without a purpose. and typically youre out of the attack an over or 2 later and dont get another go.

id even go so far as to say that if you cant figure out a way to get a batsman out, ask the captain to take you off the attack and bring you back later. no good comes from just plugging away.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

il bet compared to someone like Monty Panesar though his celebrations still look muted

how did people appeal back then? i notice at club level that most guys just turn to the umpire and ask in a normal outdoors voice "how was that?".

personally i turn, bent knees, arms raised, and yell it as loud as i can! i dont appeal unless i think its out, so it has more dramatic effect if you get in the umpires face with it. just asking a question shows a lack of certainty in my mind, and given that umpires at the level i play are just opposition batsmen anyway they generally wont give anything out unless the batsman walks.

"At club level that most guys just turn to the umpire and ask in a normal outdoors voice "how was that?"."

That's what I did if not even more low Key e.g. a raised eyebrow at the Umpire as if to say - Was that LBW? I'm trying to change it though and go for your 'Stuart McGill' approach this year.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I'm just going to have to see how I do this Sunday. I think this bloke was just exceptional, but I am out of form at the minute. The funny thing is when he reached 200 I thought to myself having got there he's now going to get out with the 1st ball after the big total. Sure enough on that next ball he hit it right up in the air vertical almost, the wicket keeper was staring at it and so too was the bloke who positioned at forward point and it was on a trajectory to land in between the 2 of them, I looked at it from Cover and considered running in and I was further than both of them, but then thought it's the keepers - he's got the gloves and he still hadn't moved and then the kid at fwd point said 'That's yours keeper' at which point he came forward for it ultimately dropping it. Typical batsmans error on attaining the big 200!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I'm just going to have to see how I do this Sunday. I think this bloke was just exceptional, but I am out of form at the minute. The funny thing is when he reached 200 I thought to myself having got there he's now going to get out with the 1st ball after the big total. Sure enough on that next ball he hit it right up in the air vertical almost, the wicket keeper was staring at it and so too was the bloke who positioned at forward point and it was on a trajectory to land in between the 2 of them, I looked at it from Cover and considered running in and I was further than both of them, but then thought it's the keepers - he's got the gloves and he still hadn't moved and then the kid at fwd point said 'That's yours keeper' at which point he came forward for it ultimately dropping it. Typical batsmans error on attaining the big 200!

Your right about your season start not being as bad as you first thought. I didn't know you took the only 2 wickets in the innings. It was like last season you seem to have a knack for taking wickets.

200 is a great achievment in any level of cricket, was it his first double ton do you know?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Your right about your season start not being as bad as you first thought. I didn't know you took the only 2 wickets in the innings. It was like last season you seem to have a knack for taking wickets.

200 is a great achievment in any level of cricket, was it his first double ton do you know?

Nah that wasn't me! I went for 57 for 0 Wrist Spin Bowling: Not as bad as I thought they've got my name wrong - they had me down as Johnson instead of Thompson.

Someone said that the blokes average was 90, but I don't know whether it was his first or not, I might be able to access his clubs stats though if you are interested?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Nah that wasn't me! I went for 57 for 0 Wrist Spin Bowling: Not as bad as I thought they've got my name wrong - they had me down as Johnson instead of Thompson.

Someone said that the blokes average was 90, but I don't know whether it was his first or not, I might be able to access his clubs stats though if you are interested?

Sounds like the whole team was outclassed. It is hard for the spinner to turn a game if the pace attack dont break through. Like half backs in rugby league spinners need a good pack of forwards ( pace bowlers).

The online computer records for the juniors here in our local comp includes their whole careers so I always have a look at the records of the kids my son has come up against.

I noticed the other day the kid who in 4 years is the only batsman to really come down the track and hammer my young bloke has been picked to train for the district junior rep team. My bloke went for 0/36 in 5 against him. He is a very talented player easily the best player of spin bowling in the comp.

I could appreciate how good he was even though he was belting my kid. He should have been stumped off my sons bowling early on so it was not all one sided.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Sounds like the whole team was outclassed. It is hard for the spinner to turn a game if the pace attack dont break through. Like half backs in rugby league spinners need a good pack of forwards ( pace bowlers).

The online computer records for the juniors here in our local comp includes their whole careers so I always have a look at the records of the kids my son has come up against.

I noticed the other day the kid who in 4 years is the only batsman to really come down the track and hammer my young bloke has been picked to train for the district junior rep team. My bloke went for 0/36 in 5 against him. He is a very talented player easily the best player of spin bowling in the comp.

I could appreciate how good he was even though he was belting my kid. He should have been stumped off my sons bowling early on so it was not all one sided.

Totally outclassed, the team was swapped around at the last minute and all the good players were drafted into a really strong team to go and play another match. Our team was made up of young blokes who'd come up to the adult team for the 1st time in this game, it was a massacre.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Good to read about progress all around.

Our season also starts in a couple of weeks time (once my semester ends). The front line spinners from last season in our team are missing (internships etc) so, I've got a good chance of getting an extended bowl.

Did anyone get a chance to get their bowling speed measured over the winter? If one of you gets a chance at that, please videotape the delivery to go with the speed.
I find it hard to gauge the speed from the international bowlers' trajectory - mainly because batsmen are always jumping around.

Cheers

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

My Flipper was measured at 42 MPH, if you've looked at my normal bowling on you tube I reckon that would be in the 37 - 40 MPH region, although I did notice watching my kids in the nets facing a bowling machine the difference between 40mph and 43mph did look very dramatic for some reason.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

My sons indoor comp started tonight. The best thing he gets to bowl two overs under pressure in match like conditions every week during the off season.

He picked up one prize scalp tonight a left handed allrounder rep player that he has been playing with and against for 5 years now.

He bowled an overs practise on the way to the game on this smooth concrete YouTube - basin reserve concrete.wmv

 

[legspinner_don]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

As you may know by now, I've recently come back to cricket after some time off. I've always been a leggie, all through childhood, and I really want to get successful with it. This forum is a great resource, and thus I'd like to pose another question/scenario which, hopefully, you'll be able to answer/give some advice.

First some background, I came back to cricket half way through last season after 5 years. In my first nets session, I turned my arm over a few times with my mate before bowling to batsmen. I had a run-up of a few yards and just bowled - my natural action if you will. As the season progressed, I looked on the internet and found a few websites: Dave's blogs, "The Art of Wrist-spin", the youtube vidoes etc. and gradually worked on my action, taking on the advice. I generally bowled ok in the nets, with the amount of turn and accuracy varying from week to week. The season finished with one over under my belt in game situations (the less said about that the better!).

After that I did not bowl again until last month once indoor nets started. Since then, I've gone through many peaks and troughs: sometimes I've turned the ball I mile, other times I've bowled like a complete drain with virtually no turn. Last week I ordered 6 balls and have had 4 sessions this week, 2 nets and 2 by myself - and I can't see much progress. Basically I'm fiddling with some part of my action every single ball - nothing's been spared: grip, front foot, back foot, release, front arm, bowling arm, the flick, the run-up, the follow-through, the pivot.... I've mucked about with just about every part of a wrist bowlers action, and I'm getting frustrated. I don't like having such an unstructured plan.

So basically, I was hoping you guys have found yourself in similar situations and have some recommendations as to how to proceed. I don't know whether to just run-up and bowl, and work on things from there... or go back to the start, armed with Philpott's advice and begin from the beginning.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

As you may know by now, I've recently come back to cricket after some time off. I've always been a leggie, all through childhood, and I really want to get successful with it. This forum is a great resource, and thus I'd like to pose another question/scenario which, hopefully, you'll be able to answer/give some advice.

First some background, I came back to cricket half way through last season after 5 years. In my first nets session, I turned my arm over a few times with my mate before bowling to batsmen. I had a run-up of a few yards and just bowled - my natural action if you will. As the season progressed, I looked on the internet and found a few websites: Dave's blogs, "The Art of Wrist-spin", the youtube vidoes etc. and gradually worked on my action, taking on the advice. I generally bowled ok in the nets, with the amount of turn and accuracy varying from week to week. The season finished with one over under my belt in game situations (the less said about that the better!).

After that I did not bowl again until last month once indoor nets started. Since then, I've gone through many peaks and troughs: sometimes I've turned the ball I mile, other times I've bowled like a complete drain with virtually no turn. Last week I ordered 6 balls and have had 4 sessions this week, 2 nets and 2 by myself - and I can't see much progress. Basically I'm fiddling with some part of my action every single ball - nothing's been spared: grip, front foot, back foot, release, front arm, bowling arm, the flick, the run-up, the follow-through, the pivot.... I've mucked about with just about every part of a wrist bowlers action, and I'm getting frustrated. I don't like having such an unstructured plan.

So basically, I was hoping you guys have found yourself in similar situations and have some recommendations as to how to proceed. I don't know whether to just run-up and bowl, and work on things from there... or go back to the start, armed with Philpott's advice and begin from the beginning.

I reckon everyone who takes up legspin goes through pretty much the same thing.

A lot of it comes from the neccessity of legspinners having to self coach. Ideally a coach will take a lot of the worry and homework out of it and leave you with a simple plan based on what they see in what you can do.

If you do coach yourself you have to work on two levels. Like a musician has to learn and practise scales and study theory but when it comes time to play you have to forget all that and just do it.

"strict training and intense concentration are the secrets to legspin success" according to the greatest sleight of hand bowling artist of all time. Clarence Victor Grimmett.

You have to be able turn the concentration on and off between deliveries when you bowl and bat.

 

[legspinner_don]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I reckon everyone who takes up legspin goes through pretty much the same thing.

A lot of it comes from the neccessity of legspinners having to self coach. Ideally a coach will take a lot of the worry and homework out of it and leave you with a simple plan based on what they see in what you can do.

If you do coach yourself you have to work on two levels. Like a musician has to learn and practise scales and study theory but when it comes time to play you have to forget all that and just do it.

"strict training and intense concentration are the secrets to legspin success" according to the greatest sleight of hand bowling artist of all time. Clarence Victor Grimmett.

You have to be able turn the concentration on and off between deliveries when you bowl and bat.

Thanks for the reassurance. I suppose that's what I need more than anything else - that I'm not the only one who's been through this!

So you're basically advocating that at net sessions I should just bowl naturally, trying to put everything together and not worry too much about isolated things, and then when I'm practicing alone I should be working on individual elements. What would you say is the most important thing to get right early on? The pivot/follow-through...?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Thanks for the reassurance. I suppose that's what I need more than anything else - that I'm not the only one who's been through this!

So you're basically advocating that at net sessions I should just bowl naturally, trying to put everything together and not worry too much about isolated things, and then when I'm practicing alone I should be working on individual elements. What would you say is the most important thing to get right early on? The pivot/follow-through...?

In the off season is more the time to study Philpott but when the games begin it is time to put down the books.

Possibly most important thing is back foot parallel and being able to balance like that. As you know there is a fair bit going on in such an unnatural act as legspinning once you start thinking about it with a batsman in front of you it is almost impossible.

You can work on spinning the ball hard away from the nets even inside to begin with but you have to spend a lot of time on a pitch just trying to land on that full length on the stumps. Some might turn a bit some might not to start with but you have to eliminate any short or wide stuff.

To begin with it is best to aim for middle stump as this gives you most room for error but to lefthanders you need to land outside their off stump so you might not go too well against them to begin with but you will probably land some there anyway.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

As you may know by now, I've recently
After that I did not bowl again until last month once indoor nets started. Since then, I've gone through many peaks and troughs: sometimes I've turned the ball I mile, other times I've bowled like a complete drain with virtually no turn. Last week I ordered 6 balls and have had 4 sessions this week, 2 nets and 2 by myself - and I can't see much progress. Basically I'm fiddling with some part of my action every single ball - nothing's been spared: grip, front foot, back foot, release, front arm, bowling arm, the flick, the run-up, the follow-through, the pivot.... I've mucked about with just about every part of a wrist bowlers action, and I'm getting frustrated. I don't like having such an unstructured plan.

So basically, I was hoping you guys have found yourself in similar situations and have some recommendations as to how to proceed. I don't know whether to just run-up and bowl, and work on things from there... or go back to the start, armed with Philpott's advice and begin from the beginning.

Something that helped me out get some consistency in turn is by looking at my own action. Most of the time, it is quite difficult to control the wrist position accurately enough - so videotaping your action (esp wrist position from front on) might help. I didn;t have a videocam at hand, so I went through my actions in front of a mirror trying to stop at each point to see if anything was going wrong - helped me a lot.