Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i cant remember the last time i bowled a full toss. i drop short more often than i overpitch, and i stray legside, so if im making mistakes batsmen pick me off to square leg more than anywhere else.

if a batsman starts scoring off straight balls then il move somewhere in to cover it off. but ultimately if im in an attacking mindset im not worried about whether batsmen are scoring runs off me, all im worried about is whether it looks likely that il get a wicket. if im not causing any kind of wicket opportunities then i rethink my strategy.

tonight il probably be a little more cautious bearing in mind its a T20 match. but at the same time il be looking to get batsmen caught in the outfield trying stupid shots. i just cant stand bowling for dots. in my eyes if youre bowling threatening deliveries then youre just as likely to get a dot ball (and potentially a wicket) as you are from bowling negative lines with little chance of getting the batsman out.

slow left armers tend to be negative in nature. its because they dont spin the ball as hard as a leg spinner, so they are forced to be more defensive. then they get their wickets more through frustrating batsmen than deceiving batsmen. Paul Harris from S.Africa is the classis example, hes the most negative and boring bowler ive ever seen in my life, but he still gets wickets. even though he almost never turns the ball! that guy you linked to has a pretty tidy record though.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Your point about slow left armers in general might be right, but then so is the case with leggies these days - rashid(UK) , chawla (IN), Bandara (SL), white (AUS), even mcgain dont spin it a lot. You need to look at the best bowlers over time - bedi, maninder singh etc used to spin it a mile.
This guy that I linked to, I'm telling you put a lot of revs on the ball - I could actually hear the ball fizz as it passed out of his hand.

Good luck with the T20 match tonight. though, i'll pinch in a little unsolicited advise here

instead of having the bat pads, just put out a sweeper, a deep mid wicket/ deep square leg, a long off and a long on. in a T20 match they wouldn't look to defend anyway. If you manage to beat them in flight even a little bit, you're likely to get catches in the outfield- adding to your rep.
That should give you more games to bowl in - when you can gradually reduce the fielders in the outfield even in a T20

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

ive got a game on saturday

its only an inter-club friendly, so il be playing against batsmen ive already bowled at in nets. which is both a positive and a negative. i know their weaknesses, but they also know mine. however i think ive got the upper hand as a bowler, since ive been bowling match situations in nets, whilst theyve mostly been playing recklessly. lets see how they fare with fielders around the bat!

my target is 3 wickets. i dont care about economy rate. and i want at least one stumped and one clean bowled.

one potential problem is that the weather forecast is heavy rain on friday, with showers on saturday. so the pitch might not be quite as dry as it is now. hopefully they cover it.

I've got one of these as well, not with my own team but my kids club, I wasn't on the team sheet for the Sunday match so rather than pursue it and lose them another game I thought I'd play in their coaches team - it's a 2nds and 3rds mix, so should be fun. Whether I get a bowl or not is another matter though.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I've got one of these as well, not with my own team but my kids club, I wasn't on the team sheet for the Sunday match so rather than pursue it and lose them another game I thought I'd play in their coaches team - it's a 2nds and 3rds mix, so should be fun. Whether I get a bowl or not is another matter though.

I've observed something a little quirky about all the active members on this thread - almost all of us have joined during or after spring/onset of summer 2009. It seems a lucky coincidence.
Of course, Dave is the senior here - having joined in 2007

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I've observed something a little quirky about all the active members on this thread - almost all of us have joined during or after spring/onset of summer 2009. It seems a lucky coincidence.
Of course, Dave is the senior here - having joined in 2007

Yeah people come and go - I came via two other forums that were the work of David Hinchcliffe, The first forum I can't even remember the name now and it only seemed to have about a 100 people or so on it , but that was taken over by a forum called Simply Cricket? which was bigger with thousands of people and then this mob took them over. Macca has been around here for a long while it seems and so does Sad Spinner - but he seems to have disappeared off the radar at the minute?

I think there's a point where you either figure out how to do what we're all trying to do and then people are happy with that and then they fade away. Some get frustrated and might turn to the 'dark side' and then there's people like me who don't watch the tele! Or are so obsessive that they're unlikely to give up readily and are trying to bowl like Shane Warnne and might carry on trying till they either die or their body gives up on them!!!

It's good to have new people come in because there is this sense that we do go round and round in circles between 3 or 4 of us and it's far better to have a whole bunch of blokes making contributions and not just the three or four that seem to have been on here for years. Fresh contributors bring new perspectives and enthusiasm.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

bedi

I was lucky enough to see the incomparable Bedi bowl with Chandrashaker and Prassana in the flesh a few times. The greatest spin attack I ever saw for sure. If you could not use your feet against them you would not last 5 minutes. Very few batsmen could.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i got my first bowl of the season!

i was playing for a pub side in a local cup match. theres 9 teams and they have a midweek league and cup. this side won both of those last season, and tonight they were playing a first round cup game against the side they beat last year in the final.

the opposition are notorious for cheating. apparently fiddling score cards, trying to field 12 men, and their umpires being utterly ridiculous is not beyond them. and it proved so tonight.

they showed up 30 mins late, so we knew the match would be ending in the dark. as an apology for their lateness the oppo captain offered our team the toss without flipping a coin, so we batted whilst it was still light! we set 127 to chase in 20 overs, i batted at number 7 and got 4 runs off 3 balls before i got bowled trying a ridiculous slog sweep. so far as i could tell they didnt really have any spinners, which is unusual as their entire team was Asian. apparently one of their guys was bowling some off spin, but you couldnt tell to look at it.

so then we came in to field, light already fading. our team had no spinners apart from me (they may have had a spinner or 2 that didnt bowl), and they started with medium pace. a few wickets fell early, at one stage they were 6 or 7 down and i hadnt even bowled yet, and wondered if i was going to get a chance!!

they held out though, so i came on with 7 overs left. first ball was a wide down the leg side. second ball pitched on leg and absolutely ripped, maybe the biggest turning ball ive ever bowled. bigger than any of my videos!! the batsman managed to edge it for a single. my first over went for 2 actual runs, but 4 wides!!! it was pretty shocking stuff, a couple of the wides were incredibly harsh. when i bowled the ball at the stumps, every one looked likely to get a wicket. the wides pretty much ruined what was otherwise excellent bowling.

second over went for 4 runs (singles and 2's), and apparently no wides from the score card, but i distinctly remember there being at least 2, so im calling it 6 runs. i had a dubious stumping turned down by square leg umpire, and nobody was getting after me. they were struggling to get bat anywhere near ball, let alone hit it. the umpire gave a wide on one ball that pitched way outside leg, but the batsman stepped across his stumps to exaggerate it, and it turned back so far that it missed leg stump by less than an inch. i lost it a bit with him, but my team mates reigned me in. it was utterly ridiculous as we had cut them a lot of slack with wides. lesson learned for next time they play them though!

third over, and thanks to my wides, and also quite a few runs off the bowler at the other end theyd managed to drag themselves from miles behind to needing something like 9 runs off 3 overs, with 3 wickets remaining (but we thought it was only 2 wickets. they wouldnt update the scoreboard!!!).

so i started with a wide lol. next ball went for 2, then a dot ball. i was pitching everything well up and everything was turning. i pitched one outside leg on a nice length, batsman tried to skip forwards to play it and got well stumped. the wicket keeper was excellent. and their square leg umpire didnt give it. pretty disgraceful really, but after about 10 seconds the batsman decided to be honest and walked!! he got clapped off as it was pretty noble considering everyone else in his team was cheating like mad.

dot ball, then 2 wides. then i got another ball to rip and the batsman scooped it to short extra cover who took it well. at which point i thought i had won the match and pulled it from the jaws of defeat. but their seemingly endless stream of batsmen produced another one. i couldnt get him out with the last ball of my over though.

then first ball of the next over, with 4 runs required i think, their batsman scooped one up in pretty much complete darkness, and our fielder at short square leg took a diving catch to seal the game!!! it was actually a really good match, just a shame that their was a bit of dishonesty going on. our bowlers had something like 30 wides to their name, when in all fairness compared to what we allowed with them it should have been more like 10. their score card was horrendous, apparently they only lost about 3 wickets, and there were incomplete figures for pretty much every bowler.

all is well that ends well though. and i think i contributed a match winning performance. the only chance we had at the end was to get them all out in those final overs, and my 2 wickets set that up nicely. on another day i might have had 3 or 4. had i bowled earlier in the innings i think i would have done against their slightly better batsmen.

3-0-17-2 isnt a bad start to the season!!

the standard of cricket is probably lower than what ive played in before (our fielding was first rate though). ive said in the past that against really weak batsman they often lack the ability to even lose their own wicket, and i think that was definitely valid tonight. i think the answer is to add tons of flight to the ball and really loop it up there. bowling my top deliveries they just cant get bat on ball regularly enough. im proud that i didnt go for a single boundary though, and the boundaries were VERY short! there was only 1 shot where the ball actually went where the batsman intended for runs. i ran them completely ragged. its a massive confidence boost ahead of the weekend game.

the pitch was a council maintained facility, very green, but quite dry. i was getting the ball to do a lot though, compared to what i was bowling last season in matches it is night and day different. my wides were a slight problem (but i was able to very easily adjust my line and length), but most of them were very harsh. with fair umpiring i would have had probably 12 runs scored off me. compared to nets i think i am much more in control in the middle. i switch off my analysing brain and just bowl my natural technique, and it worked very well tonight.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Not to sound fretful, but don't you bowl even one full toss (or even a half volley) an over when you are looking to pitch up ?

When I bowl to batsmen here, I cannot afford to go without a mid on and mid off or I'd be taken for at least 10 an over easily.

Even the best spinner that I've faced (a left arm orthodox who has been picked up in all stars XI), bowls with a mid on and a mid off - In the match that he picked up 7 wickets for 16 against us, I still managed to pinch him off singles to mid on (4 off 7 before I was runout).

Look at his record here
Midwest Cricket Conference
214 wickets from 83 matches at 3.22 an over in Division I is a huge haul.

His field is generally -
mid on, mid off, short extra cover, cover, point, slip,midwicket, deep square leg, short fine leg - normal
and
mid on, mid off, short extra cover, silly mid off, point, slip, gully, midwicket, leg slip - super aggressive.

Being a finger spinner, he'd generally have greater accuracy than us wrist spinners.

Cant remember not having mid on or mid off or straight on myself. I was half joking about not having any but he did say he wanted to attack from the start.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Well done Jim, I'm slightly enthused by your advice to flight the ball, my bowling problems maybe down to bowling flatter and faster.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Cant remember not having mid on or mid off or straight on myself. I was half joking about not having any but he did say he wanted to attack from the start.

i half set my own field tonight. but most of the guys were just wandering around anyway lol so i kind of left them to it. i had a short mid-on and a mid-off. and mid-off had to field the ball once in 3 overs (plus a ton of wides). their runs all came through the gully region off outside edges, fine leg off inside edges, and square leg off actual shots. apart from one heavy leading edge that went to mid-off lol. they were all grounded though, no catching opportunities.

i wanted a gully but everyone just spread out so i left them to it. at the weekend il take more control of the field.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Well done Jim, I'm slightly enthused by your advice to flight the ball, my bowling problems maybe down to bowling flatter and faster.

against higher quality batsmen, they punish flight. flatter and faster definitely causes them more issues (to a point), especially as it brings flight effects further into the equation.

but against the tail, or low quality batsmen, if you bowl it flatter and faster they just struggle to do anything against it, or that is at least what i have found. so instead of getting their wicket, you tend to end up with them getting lucky runs which is then frustrating, and leads to bad deliveries.

ultimately though if you are getting smashed for boundaries then the above doesnt really apply. flighting it up might get a wicket, but in the same way as sometimes a full toss or a long hop does. its just a surprise element that creates a mistake. if you flight the ball more against someone who is already hitting your best stuff for boundaries, youll probably continue to go for boundaries. assuming you were giving it the "right" amount of flight in the first place.

the answer then is probably primarily down to mental approach, which then leads to inconsistency in length and spin. which is where formulating plans might prove helpful. its only club cricket so if you spend a few games getting your head around field placings and what not and go for runs, it doesnt really matter. its better in the long run. if youve got control of the field and what you want the batsman to do, then i think that will translate more easily into having control of the ball.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

against higher quality batsmen, they punish flight. flatter and faster definitely causes them more issues (to a point), especially as it brings flight effects further into the equation.

but against the tail, or low quality batsmen, if you bowl it flatter and faster they just struggle to do anything against it, or that is at least what i have found. so instead of getting their wicket, you tend to end up with them getting lucky runs which is then frustrating, and leads to bad deliveries.

ultimately though if you are getting smashed for boundaries then the above doesnt really apply. flighting it up might get a wicket, but in the same way as sometimes a full toss or a long hop does. its just a surprise element that creates a mistake. if you flight the ball more against someone who is already hitting your best stuff for boundaries, youll probably continue to go for boundaries. assuming you were giving it the "right" amount of flight in the first place.

the answer then is probably primarily down to mental approach, which then leads to inconsistency in length and spin. which is where formulating plans might prove helpful. its only club cricket so if you spend a few games getting your head around field placings and what not and go for runs, it doesnt really matter. its better in the long run. if youve got control of the field and what you want the batsman to do, then i think that will translate more easily into having control of the ball.

Good stuff there. nice to know you had them hopping tied into knots. Stay with it and let us hope you get to bowl with more freedom for your club.

I had the first bowl of the season today. Just went out with my captain to the pitch and picked up a bucket of old balls and started bowling. Ended up bowling continuously for an hour - So I must've bowled about 10-12 overs.

I was just trying to bowl a decent line and length with consistent leg breaks - without trying any variations at all. At the start of the session, I still felt like I had the hangover of the googly syndrome - right now more like a top spin syndrome - when I end up bowling top spinners even if I'm looking for a leg break. Towards the end of the session, I could let rip big leg breaks - but ran into length issues bowling short i.e- Have to think "spin up".
In spite of the pitch being concrete - I got decent spin towards the end of the session - I got the skipper out a few times - bowled him a couple of times, beat him in flight to sky catches 5 times. So, I'm fairly happy.

But, yeah all that I thought about before the session just went into the drain and instinct sort of took over when I went to the middle to bowl.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

The point of the Aussie ball is that it's the full 5.5 oz, all these others although okay for practicing are not the full weight. I don't suppose the Aussie ball is any good on concrete it'll be fine on grass and articficial surfaces?

I've got it in the mail today and in spite of being in the middle of a busy day, I rolled my arm over for an over on concrete. First impressions - quite impressive.
It bounces nicely, has a pronounced seam so you get good grip on it (although ball is very smooth and shiny). The shine didnt wear off that easily even when I bowled an over on rough concrete ( a leather ball will show a lot of wear). Going to go bowl on the uncovered concrete this evening for an extended spell. Will let you know how it keeps up.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I've got it in the mail today and in spite of being in the middle of a busy day, I rolled my arm over for an over on concrete. First impressions - quite impressive.
It bounces nicely, has a pronounced seam so you get good grip on it (although ball is very smooth and shiny). The shine didnt wear off that easily even when I bowled an over on rough concrete ( a leather ball will show a lot of wear). Going to go bowl on the uncovered concrete this evening for an extended spell. Will let you know how it keeps up.

Shrek are you in India or Indiana USA?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

3-0-17-2 isnt a bad start to the season!!

You'd have to be pretty pleased about that considering that is roughly what you were hoping to do on the week-end.

Smith got 3-0-15-2 in a T20 trial last night and they reckoned that was good bowling on the report i saw, so yours stack up ok. Were they legside wides that you got done for? Because most of those are still good balls if they spin and they are not way wide its just this way they umpire T20

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Shrek are you in India or Indiana USA?

Indiana, USA.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

You'd have to be pretty pleased about that considering that is roughly what you were hoping to do on the week-end.

Smith got 3-0-15-2 in a T20 trial last night and they reckoned that was good bowling on the report i saw, so yours stack up ok. Were they legside wides that you got done for? Because most of those are still good balls if they spin and they are not way wide its just this way they umpire T20

they were all legside wides apart from one, which was an off side wide. out of all of them, there were probably only 2 that would have been given by a sensible umpire, because they all turned back in! the off side wide wasnt a wide either really, it pitched on off stump, it just turned away.

pretty much all of them pitched within a foot of leg stump and turned back by varying amounts, in a normal match they would have been absolutely fine deliveries. there was only one that their batsmen didnt take a swing at, they actually hit a couple that would have been wides otherwise. the one their batsman didnt swing at pitched at least a foot outside leg, but turned back huge and missed the top of his leg stump by an inch. i was stood there, hands on head, rueing my luck at having JUST missed out on a bowled behind the legs. i turn around and their cheating umpire is holding his arms out!!! i almost lost it with him, i started marching back saying "how is that a wide? its missed his leg stump by an INCH" in a raised voice, before a couple of the other players told me to let it go before i went a step too far lol. it was cheating, plain and simple. its a fairly low standard club level, most of the players only play in this midweek league, they dont play weekend cricket. and we had let their bowlers off with anything that was hittable basically. but their umpires were treating our bowling like we were playing in the T20 world cup! towards the end when they were desperate for runs, i dont think a single over contained less than 8 or 9 deliveries. even in our early overs they were calling wides whenever they could. as i said, there were about 30 in total, from 19 overs!!

it wasnt really on at all. but it made the victory that much sweeter!!

the weather is looking awful for tomorrows match, supposedly heavy rain all day, so it might not happen yet. hopefully it will though, im raring to go.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I've got it in the mail today and in spite of being in the middle of a busy day, I rolled my arm over for an over on concrete. First impressions - quite impressive.
It bounces nicely, has a pronounced seam so you get good grip on it (although ball is very smooth and shiny). The shine didnt wear off that easily even when I bowled an over on rough concrete ( a leather ball will show a lot of wear). Going to go bowl on the uncovered concrete this evening for an extended spell. Will let you know how it keeps up.

I didnt get to go out to the pitch last evening. But, I went to the tennis courts to play a game of tennis. There I realized that a tennis court is an ideal practice setting to learn control over length. So, as soon as the game was over, started bowling there.

Idea is that you bowl from the baseline and try to bowl it over the net. The service-line on the other side of net will be roughly 22 yards, so imagine a batsman there.

Gives you a great way to work on length -(arguably the most difficult part for a leggie). I bowled for 15 min - so perhaps 3 overs with the pvc ball and it still is shiny and almost new. It has a couple of 'dimples' but that is very minor. So, yeah I'm plugging this ball.

Amazon.com: Pro Impact Sports - Poly Soft PVC Cricket Ball: Sports & Outdoors

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Alright, the board is looking a bit deserted, perhaps from all the games you guys are playing which makes my itch to get out there even worse. I had a decent bowl today -bowled for nearly 2 hours and as I was the only bowler I must've got in atleast 16-17 overs or so. (We had to go fetch the balls hit into the outfield/that beat the bat ourselves)

Breakdown:
Good - Better control over line and length and got my leg break to turn quite consistently. My friend (LHB) told me that he could hear the ball fizz -at the start and in the middle of the session.
Bad - I might have got tired and towards the end, I started spraying it around a bit.
Ugly- Tried to bowl a flipper -and actually things went downhill from there- so had to start over from the stand still and bowl.

Observations - Follow through is not as strong as I would like it to be- whenever I got it right, ball sort of jumped off the surface. Bowling into a headwind of about 20mph, I was bowling short about 2 balls each over (deathknell if I was bowling in the match )- Also felt that my arm was dropping when I tried spinning it hard in that wind (should learn to adjust to the wind). I mentioned the wind, and that was getting the ball to drift dramatically. I could see it change direction midair like those missiles in cartoons.

Skin on my spinning finger has come off at two places- (basically at the two joints on the finger).

I tend to bowl better - get massive turn and feel the ball fizz out of my hands when I am doing it from a stand still ( My follow through and pivot are also better). But when I try taking a few steps, it isn't coming out right. I know a video will help, but I can't get a videocam now, So, I would love to hear your thoughts if you have gone through something similar.

I forgot to mention, but I wanted to know about the technical need for a run up in the first place. If I do a minor pause as soon as I get into the delivery stride on my backfoot ( the weight on right foot with left foot still hanging in the air), it replicates the conditions of "bowling from stand still" and the results are also similarly good. So, I was wondering if there might be any disadvantages of introducing the pause.

I also think that getting an extended spell like this is better and plan to do something like this every alternate day, instead of bowling short spells everyday. That also helps me develop a callous.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

removing the run up, or pausing during the run up, simply removes momentum. there is a limit to how much "exploding" you can do at the crease, so you have to carry energy in from elsewhere. the reason why you find that turn and accuracy will improve without the run up is that you are moving less, and the ball is delivered slowed. so there are fewer sources of errors, and a slower ball spun at about the same revs (as this doesnt really change much between run up and standing still) will always turn more.

the run up can also add rhythm to your action, but it can just as easily take it away if youre not comfortable with it. try counting your steps out loud, and just trying to make everything as repeatable as possible. if that means having weird quirks and idiosyncracies to prompt a repeatable action then so be it. mine is to spin the ball in my hands at the top of my run up, then i plant my right foot on my starting line, take a deep breath, and then count my run up steps, with my eyes always fixed on the batsmans feet.

the weather is holding out here at the moment, the sun is poking through from behind some ominous looking clouds. the match starts in 3 hours, so hopefully the weather holds out until about 4pm, and my side fields first!! all i care about is getting to bowl lol