Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

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SteveyD;401287 said:
To quote philpott :

Philpott studied Grimmetts books more than anyone, and from a young age. '"Strict training and intense concentration" are the keys to bowling legspin said Grimmett.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

macca;401307 said:
Philpott studied Grimmetts books more than anyone, and from a young age. '"Strict training and intense concentration" are the keys to bowling legspin said Grimmett.

I juts happened to have philpott open on that page next to my bed :p
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

after last weekend i got in touch with my village club and got a reply back early in the week. i was planning to just go along to their next training, but they were short for sunday players so i got a call up. not bad going, getting your first game after 2 days and no training. ive been at my other club for months and am the only person that trains every week, and they were giving me nothing!

so anyway, i played today, and just everything about the club is better for me than my old club. theyve got 2 league sides on saturday, a sunday friendly XI and a midweek T20 side. but they dont seem to be so over-populated with players, so chances are il get a game most weeks. theyre a great bunch of guys, and mostly seem to be much more in my age group whereas my old club was more older guys. the captain today was a guy i went to school with and our parents were old friends, so thats always a help.

we batted first, i was at number 10 and not required. then we went in to field. i was really determined to have a great day in the field. i havent done any practice, but im just making sure i put in 101% commitment to everything. if i still make mistakes then so be it, so long as i know im trying, and sliding and diving for everything i can. and sure enough, i had a really good day in the field! fortunately i didnt have to take any catches, but i was sharp onto everything, no leaked runs, and got a direct hit off an attempted run out but the guy was home.

i got to bowl first change! i had a warm up in the nets against a few of the other players and i was pretty sharp, so i think that helped. unfortunately my match bowling was crap. but the figures were considerably better than i thought they would be on the pitch!!

they had a batsman in (number 4 or 5) who looked outstanding. he was facing, and he was always going to attack me. my first ball was loose, a bit short, but he drove it hard through mid off. i had my mid off back, and he put in a massive dive to take a catch, it was absolutely stunning, i went up celebrating, but as he landed it just spilled out. it was agonisingly close, and would have been an amazing way to start my club career. a wicket with my first ball. i was gutted, but it should never have been catchable, i was just glad he stopped the 4!!

i didnt find any rhythm, but then 3 balls later the batsman smashed me onto the leg side off a full toss at his legs, to a boundary that was about 70 yards away (its massive on one side), and it got dropped by the captain. it wasnt an easy catch, but it wasnt too hard either. he made a good effort, on another day id have had 2 wickets off the first over. in the end it went for about 10 runs.

the next 3 overs were a mixture of the occasional good ball surrounded by some absolute sh*t. really poor balls, some of the worse ive bowled in matches. at least 3 or 4 full tosses outside leg stump that got dispatched. there was a massive head wind coming in from fine leg, probably 20-30mph, and i just couldnt find a length.

after 4 overs of dross i told the captain to call it a spell. but amazingly everyone just said "just have another over mate, dont worry about it". at this point i was about 4-0-30-0. so i agreed to one more, although i expected to get tonked. the thing was that now the pressure was completely off because i realised they didnt care if i got dispatched to all corners.

i had the most bizarre field placing, which to most people would seem really defensive, but in fact it was the most attacking field possible! the gun batsman only had one shot against me, which was to smash me aerial onto the leg side looking for the 6. so i had 4 fielders stood on the legside boundary, which was about 70 yards away. 3 on the straight boundary, and 2 on the offside boundary. literally no-one in close, fully with the intention of getting him caught. he hadnt played a single shot along the ground to me, and the only other dismissal would have been bowled, stumped or LBW, so it made no sense to have anyone close. the other batsman made a comment to the umpire about the field, then first ball i finally found my line and length and forced a nervy defensive shot, and just chirped "i dont need fielders on the boundary for a ball like that", and then my confidence was back. i followed it up with another, and then all the fielders came back in, because id basically got control of the guy. had i bowled like that from the off id have got him out for sure, he was all out attack, and to be fair i had him dropped twice!!

he went on to almost win them the game, but our captain took a hat trick in his first over to wipe out their middle order, and then he got the good batsman caught off an edge a couple of overs later. he was proper fast, one of the deliveries snapped a bail!! we had about 6 slips at one point lol.

so i ended the day 5-0-33-0, i thought id gone for more like 50 so i was quite happy to see the score card. the batsman was by far the best ive ever bowled to, he hit 89 in the end and at least 8 sixes, some off of really good bowling. on another day id have started with 2 wickets in my first over, and who knows how much better my day could have been. when you get dropped twice, and go for a massive 6 in your first over, its always going to dent your rhythm. and whilst i didnt consciously change my bowling because of it, i think i probably tried too hard and thats why i bowled badly. once i relaxed it just clicked into place. i bowled a few flippers because i had it working in my short net warm up, i got one to stay super low and hit off stump! but unfortunately i bowled them leg side in the match (which is generally the tendancy i have with the flipper).

the best part about this club is that everyone was just full of encouragement. no criticism, just constructive advice. you feel like you can afford a mistake so long as you try, so i think its just going to be so much more enjoyable. so a bad week for bowling, but a good week for my future cricket :D

i really need net practice now. i havent practiced in weeks, all of my bowling has been in matches, and its really starting to show.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Good to hear you did well and had a good time :)
I had a chat with some of the guys down at the match yesterday, they are friendly and encouraging, but mostly agreed I should be playing 3rds intead of 2nds were it not for my fielding ...
darned double edged sword lol
Time to get that bowling worked up. I have a match with work on tuesday, will be my first match bowling of the year, and as they have never seen me play and I introduced my self as a bowler (and its a work league, theres a minimum of 6 bowlers or something) I am hoping to get a game! Gonna do a hardcore net session tomorrow in prep. and hope all is good
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I had another totally mis-matched game today - that's 5 out of 6 the only one where the teams where of equal standard was rained off. For some bizarre reason we batted first and 4 ducks and some pretty poor batting later having faced only 3 balls I walked off the pitch (No.11) not out for 0. Trying to bowl a superior team out for less than 68 meant that I didn't get to bowl and it was all over within 10 overs I think, but it rained more or less as soon as we walked off anyway.

More here - plus an update on my own personal pratice wicket Wrist Spin Bowling: 6th June 2010 I've also got some footage of this new approach I've got with the Flipper variations to upload at some point soon.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Jim your report sounds very promising, I'm on the verge of changing clubs and joining my kids club as I've had no calls in the last 3 weeks from my own team and the nature of the team has changed - many people have left and it's just different - it's in transition and for some reason I'm not getting a look in and as someone commented 'You're always one of the first to pay your club fees, you're at nets all winter paying your way and you always pay match fees and they're not giving you a game - they're taking the p***.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

captained today for the 1st time, probablly effected my bowling more than a bit and the concentration really wasn't there and i got absolutely tonked for 25 off 2 overs and even managed to get myself another duck batting at 10, lol. Have to apprectiate the the captains who bowl as well as i usually think about my bowling in between overs to discern if theres something wrong with my action, bowling 1 ball after we came off the pitch figured it out i was bowling behind the vertical which was the problem, would have figured it out if i'd bowled a googly :p
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

someblokecalleddave;401316 said:
Jim your report sounds very promising, I'm on the verge of changing clubs and joining my kids club as I've had no calls in the last 3 weeks from my own team and the nature of the team has changed - many people have left and it's just different - it's in transition and for some reason I'm not getting a look in and as someone commented 'You're always one of the first to pay your club fees, you're at nets all winter paying your way and you always pay match fees and they're not giving you a game - they're taking the p***.

i think its the general plight of the leg spinner. one positive of the club ive now joined is that i was the only spinner on display today. and nobody mentioned about any other spin bowlers. at my old club there were 5 leggies, let alone all the offies. i think as a leg spinner it is important to be the only one at your club, or at least the only full time one. there is never any harm in competition, but good leg spin often amazes people, and its better if youre the only one doing that because it makes it more noticeable. if youre one of a group of similar bowlers then it just becomes normal.

a few guys said that i was turning it quite a bit. and in the nets beforehand they were amazed at the bounce i was generating. its the concrete net wicket that i have mentioned a lot in the past that i pretty much learnt leg spin on, so it bounces quite a bit anyway. but i can get the ball above waist height on my stock delivery! i got to bowl first change (which is normally unheard of), so either they wanted to give me a go as a new player (which i would generally think the existing players would get preference) or they liked the look of what i did in a handful of net deliveries. unfortunately today i didnt really produce, in addition to luck not being on my side in that first over. but it does look promising for the future.

i just need to get some hard individual practice in now. il probably end up playing T20 midweek, but to be honest id probably be better off giving it a miss and practicing instead. but i think temptation will probably get the better of me. il have to find time tomorrow or tuesday evening.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

congrats jim it sounds like you have joined a better club for you and sounds more like my club though where we enjoy playing cricket more than anything else at the end of the day and everyone gets a go especially on sundays.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

gundalf7;401318 said:
captained today for the 1st time, probablly effected my bowling more than a bit and the concentration really wasn't there and i got absolutely tonked for 25 off 2 overs and even managed to get myself another duck batting at 10, lol. Have to apprectiate the the captains who bowl as well as i usually think about my bowling in between overs to discern if theres something wrong with my action, bowling 1 ball after we came off the pitch figured it out i was bowling behind the vertical which was the problem, would have figured it out if i'd bowled a googly :p

id imagine the hardest part of captaining and bowling is what other people think. if youre captain and you bowl yourself and bowl really well then its obviously justified. but if you have a bad couple of overs, you might think in your head "im another over away from finding some rhythm", so youd like to give yourself a couple more at least. but at the same time youve been smashed and if you werent captain youd probably be taken off.

i think id struggle in that situation. my personal greed to bowl as many overs as possible would probably overule my better judgement, and id probably end up irritating other bowlers who feel they should have had a go sooner, and possibly losing the match.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

gundalf7;401320 said:
congrats jim it sounds like you have joined a better club for you and sounds more like my club though where we enjoy playing cricket more than anything else at the end of the day and everyone gets a go especially on sundays.

definitely, the captains (on-field and off-field) both sacrificed themselves to give others a go. one batted at about 9 because he had played yesterday and had a good knock. the other should have opened the bowling, he took a hat-trick in his first over later on with some serious pace. but instead he let 4 or 5 other bowlers have a go first. then when he skittled their middle order he took himself off to give 2 more bowlers a go. it was just thoroughly enjoyable cricket. even though i bowled really badly!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

to be honest the normal captain would have probablly given me a couple of extra overs but i knew something wasn't quite right and when my 9th ball disappeared half way down a cow field about 70m or so away i decided it probablly wasn't great to keep myself on.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

shrek;401280 said:
Looking forward to the match tomorrow where we face the best spinner in the league one left arm spinner who bowls at a good pace, gets enough revs on it to hear the ball fizz as it passes you and generally gets amazing drift, dip, turn and bounce. But, I think we've got a working plan against him and should negate him as we did to the second best spinner (an offie in the first match). Also hoping that I'll get a bowl tomorrow

Didn't get a bowl today either. Shot them out for 139 with our off spinners taking 7 between them. And then it was our turn to face the music.
Started off decently, then wickets tumbled 30/2, 38/3, 38/4, But another bloke and I held things up very well pinching singles doubles and whatever else we could. The leftie spinner bowling into the wind got very nice drift and dip but considering low total, we weren't under pressure to score and could keep him out.

He bowled one delivery that was slightly faster than normal in flight, it seemed to have a lot of backspin on it to skid right much faster along the surface. It might have been an offspinning flipper that we were talking about here on this forum. But, I couldn't be sure as I didn't hear a click and that was the only time he ever bowled in it his 7 over spell. I didn't give him a wicket and although I got out at 88, we managed to overhaul 140 with 4 wickets to spare.

Now, the question is if there is any other way to impart that much backspin on it without clicking your fingers?

Point jim makes about being exclusive leggie is so true. It is embarrassing to admit that our first keeper can land leg breaks more consistently than I with greater control. And with a bunch of offspinners who seem to keep landing it on the off stump ball after ball, the only way I will get a bowl is if I get loads better at my accuracy - which unfortunately is going to take some time.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

SteveyD;401348 said:
backspin makes it pitch up. To skid along the floor is overspin ;)

If by overspin and topspin we mean the same thing, we should expect it to bounce up, not stay low and shoot through like a flipper does.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hmm you are in deed right. I am confusing myself. I thought that topspin would bounce further forward like in tennis, whereas it actually dips a lot more and thus has more downwards velocity and bounces higher.

And then thought that backspin would bounce higher because it "grips" the surface and imparts a rotational force causing it to turn forward veocity into upwards .


Its early in the morning, shush :p
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

SteveyD;401354 said:
Hmm you are in deed right. I am confusing myself. I thought that topspin would bounce further forward like in tennis, whereas it actually dips a lot more and thus has more downwards velocity and bounces higher.

And then thought that backspin would bounce higher because it "grips" the surface and imparts a rotational force causing it to turn forward veocity into upwards .


Its early in the morning, shush :p

those statements are true at very low speeds. if you literally drop the ball from your hands with overspin or backspin, then the backspin will pop up back towards you, whilst overspin will zip away from you with low bounce. the same as in tennis. tennis shots are played pretty slow though, and the balls are substantially more grippy on the surface. whereas a cricket ball is very heavy with low grip, so in terms of gripping the pitch it tends to just carry on whatever path it is on through flight, just due to the inertia. so the magnus effect outweighs any friction off the pitch. if you bowl with a tennis ball then youll find the opposite is normally true (it behaves as it does in tennis, so overspin will drop in flight, but then bounce through low, and vice versa).

if you give the ball flight with backspin then you can get the ball to rear up. it bounces lower than a top spinner still, but my zooter, if bowled with lots of flight, will grip the pitch and bounce up and back down very quickly and sharply. in the right situation it could cause a batsman to scoop an easy catch back to the bowler or a short mid-off if they play for normal pace and bounce, but then the ball holds up on them.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

sadspinner;401385 said:
I found philpott as grimmett at 2 minutes 40. have a look Dailymotion - Bodyline - 21 - a Sports & Extreme video



Thanks for that sadspinner. I'll check it out.

You found so much Grimmett footage at that British Pathe site to keep me going. There is a very important clip from 1930 on that site. He takes 3 of the greatest English batsmen in history within 4 balls. This was the day he said he would debut his new "mystery ball"
 
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