Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[mr bojangles]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Would not worry about learning new deliveries in season. It is hard not to muck around with flippers and zooters when everyone is talking about them here but beyond learning the basics of the rarer variations just to know what they are and how to do them I would stick to what you know.

I know that this is the right advice but half of the fun of bowling legspin is learning to bowl new deliveries - reading some of the ideas on this forum makes me feel like a kid in a sweetshop and it's so tempting to try some ideas out!!

Most extractions of batsmen can be carried out with leg break and top spinner. You have a couple more balls as well so you have a nice assortment of tools for the job.

You're probably right but in my case the tools are pretty basic! My leg break doesn't break very much and my other variations are fairly easy to pick.

The two strands of accuracy on one hand and ball revolutions on the other are the two things to work on. As a general rule if you are very accurate you may not be spinning hard enough on the other hand if you are spinning bigtime you are probably a bit short, wide or full more than you should.

I think that this is the key. I don't think I'm spinning anywhere near as hard as I need to - and while accuracy is a valuable tool I would be prepared to sacrifice some of this for a bit more turn off the wicket.

You have to bring the two together and work on both of them. You need nets and middle pitches with and without batsmen. Bowling at targets to work on the accuracy. Some of the work on building the revs can take place at home in the backyard or even inside watching tv. If you get the bug bad you will have that ball at hand a lot.

Any tips on how to build up revs would be much appreciated - bear in mind I don't have much of a garden. Is it just a case of flipping from hand to hand?

Let me guess, in your delivery you jump so high then you lightly touch down mr bojangles.

In my dreams .... In reality I have the grace and elegance of a malcoordinated rhino!

 

[mr bojangles]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

They all count at the end of the season! Good to have you join us Mr Bo and thanks for you appreciative words, lets hope you become a regular contributor on the forum?

Thanks for the welcome. Looking forward to learning from you guys who seem to be a long way down the road that I'm just starting out on ....

Have a read through Peter Philpotts book 'The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling' every 3 months or so till you can almost repeat the words - and you'll have then accessed and understood the 'Round the loop theory' and been introduced the potential of 'The Big Leg-break'. Hopefully you'll have started out bowing with a big flick, if not - there's your first target - you've got to bring the big flick into bowling your Leg-Break.

I haven't read this - although judging from this forum it seems to be the legspinners bible. Will order a copy asap. Not entirely sure what a big flick involves but am keen to find out ...

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hi Guys - Please find my bowling video from front view and back view. All feedback is appreciated. This is my first time I have look at my bowling.

YouTube - myspinsideview.AVI
YouTube - myspinbackview.AVI

any way you can slow the videos down to slow motion? it might just be an optical illusion, but your bowling arm is quite bent through the delivery, and may straighten a bit as you release. it might just be a trick of the eyes, but if that is the case then you may have to be careful with that else you might get questions raised about the legality of the action.

aside from that it looks pretty good, fairly unorthodox in terms of your bowling arm, but looks effective and pretty quick. you could probably follow through a bit stronger, your action has lots of momentum in the lead up, but after you release the ball you kind of stop dead. you can carry that momentum through for several paces after the delivery, and that will make you rotate stronger.

it looks like a fairly solid action though!

My questions are really around how best to move forwards – I feel that I’ve hit a bit of a wall and am not sure what to do. I would love to (a) be able to get more spin on the ball and bowl the ‘big leg break’ that you guys talk about but I haven’t the faintest idea where to start and (b) be able to bowl a ‘proper’ googly that actually pitches on the wicket once in a while!!

What’s your advice as to what I should concentrate on over the season – stick to what I know and learn how to do it better or try to develop more deliveries?

i cant help on the googly, but in terms of spinning the ball harder, just spend every minute of the day when your hands arent busy spinning a ball between them. thats probably the only way you can possibly spin it harder. then you just have to transfer that into your full bowling action. the most important thing is to land the ball consistently on the seam, otherwise youll always struggle for turn. however spinning hard also brings aerodynamic effects into play, which can be equally as effective as turn off the pitch. you dont need to turn it big if you beat the batsman in flight.

I realise this is quite difficult as an adult unless you have got unlimited access to nets in the way that Jim has?

i wouldnt say ive got unlimited access to nets. my club nets are permanent (e.g. they dont get taken down for winter) so i can use them whenever i want to. however they are about 20 mins drive away. and ive got my own business, so i can find time more readily than an employee, but i still have work to do and im really busy at present. ive barely had any non-club-practice net sessions this year. probably only 3 or 4, and i got videos from 2 of them. im going to try and get a few hours in this weekend seeing as im not playing. my village club should have their nets up now, i need to go and see. thats only 3 mins away, so i can get down there to practice a lot more often. they are also my favourite bowling surface (hopefully they havent had the nets resurfaced this spring!!!!)

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I'm having trouble downloading at the moment but will definately get back to you with an opinion if you want one.

I would certainly love your feedback, please do look at it when you get a chance.

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Looks very good overall, and very energetic. The only comment I'd make is that I think Liz would probably advise more of a follow through to reduce the stress on your legs at the end, but that's for the sake of comfort rather than actual performance.

I agree, some times i follow through more and some times less, I should certainly make it more consistent in terms of it.

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

any way you can slow the videos down to slow motion? it might just be an optical illusion, but your bowling arm is quite bent through the delivery, and may straighten a bit as you release. it might just be a trick of the eyes, but if that is the case then you may have to be careful with that else you might get questions raised about the legality of the action.

aside from that it looks pretty good, fairly unorthodox in terms of your bowling arm, but looks effective and pretty quick. you could probably follow through a bit stronger, your action has lots of momentum in the lead up, but after you release the ball you kind of stop dead. you can carry that momentum through for several paces after the delivery, and that will make you rotate stronger.

it looks like a fairly solid action though!

I am recording from my digital camera and I doubt if I can slow it down. I some times think that too my bowling arm being bent, but I have been bowling from 4-5 years in the league and have not been ever even asked about the action.

I think I am not using enough of my shoulder into putting more spin on the ball and if i do that, it should certainly fix the bent arm thing. Any comments?

I have an irregular follow through some times I do and some times don't. When i do i put more momentum into the ball rather than on spinning it. May be to pivot more on bowling foot would naturally lead me into a bigger follow through.

What do you mean my pretty quick, what pace do you think i am bowling at? Should i slow it down? I get enough purchase of the pitch at this pace, say 80% of my balls turn at least a foot which i think is reasonable. so when you say unorthodox it is only in terms of bowling arm being bent right.... as again i feel rest all that i do is fairly orthodox

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I am recording from my digital camera and I doubt if I can slow it down. I some times think that too my bowling arm being bent, but I have been bowling from 4-5 years in the league and have not been ever even asked about the action.

I think I am not using enough of my shoulder into putting more spin on the ball and if i do that, it should certainly fix the bent arm thing. Any comments?

I have an irregular follow through some times I do and some times don't. When i do i put more momentum into the ball rather than on spinning it. May be to pivot more on bowling foot would naturally lead me into a bigger follow through.

What do you mean my pretty quick, what pace do you think i am bowling at? Should i slow it down? I get enough purchase of the pitch at this pace, say 80% of my balls turn at least a foot which i think is reasonable. so when you say unorthodox it is only in terms of bowling arm being bent right.... as again i feel rest all that i do is fairly orthodox

if youve never been pulled up on your arm then its probably just a trick of the camera. its hard to see in the video whether it straightens, simply having a bent arm is perfectly legal, and its obviously working for you.

with regards your pace, pretty quick is a good thing, its not excessively fast, just a good leg spin pace. not slow and loopy, but not too flat either, although id say from the videos that you probably have a tendancy towards less flight rather than more? you may find in some situations that adding some extra flight could be beneficial, especially against weaker batsmen. its probably around the same sort of speed that i bowl at. you generate your pace more with the approach though whereas i have a fairly relaxed approach and then explode at the crease. your method probably makes you ache less the next day though lol.

and yeh, the only unorthodox thing is your bowling arm being bent, and the way you look to release the ball from your hand. the follow through and everything is pretty conventional. do you have a googly? your arm position is quite high, so i would think it could lend itself to the googly and top spinner quite well.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

any way you can slow the videos down to slow motion? it might just be an optical illusion, but your bowling arm is quite bent through the delivery, and may straighten a bit as you release. it might just be a trick of the eyes, but if that is the case then you may have to be careful with that else you might get questions raised about the legality of the action.

aside from that it looks pretty good, fairly unorthodox in terms of your bowling arm, but looks effective and pretty quick. you could probably follow through a bit stronger, your action has lots of momentum in the lead up, but after you release the ball you kind of stop dead. you can carry that momentum through for several paces after the delivery, and that will make you rotate stronger.

Second that opinion. I had to wonder if my eyes were deceiving me as I thought I saw a small flexing of the elbow and the rest of action is great.

I did wonder if the bowling arm should finish across the body to get a greater rip on the ball.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Another question to the regulars who practice all through the winter - any of you tried this ball from gray nichols
Amazon.com: Gray-Nicolls Wonderball 5.5 Ounce Cricket Practice Ball: Sports & Outdoors

Supposed to be made of pvc. I can practice on a pitch(matting wicket) only during the season and that too only when the team is practicing. So, I don't get to bowl a lot. The normal cricket balls on the other hand have hte leather and seam rip off very quickly if I use them to bowl on surfaces like concrete or hard tennis courts. This might be a nice alternative.

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

if youve never been pulled up on your arm then its probably just a trick of the camera. its hard to see in the video whether it straightens, simply having a bent arm is perfectly legal, and its obviously working for you.



with regards your pace, pretty quick is a good thing, its not excessively fast, just a good leg spin pace. not slow and loopy, but not too flat either, although id say from the videos that you probably have a tendancy towards less flight rather than more? you may find in some situations that adding some extra flight could be beneficial, especially against weaker batsmen. its probably around the same sort of speed that i bowl at. you generate your pace more with the approach though whereas i have a fairly relaxed approach and then explode at the crease. your method probably makes you ache less the next day though lol.

and yeh, the only unorthodox thing is your bowling arm being bent, and the way you look to release the ball from your hand. the follow through and everything is pretty conventional. do you have a googly? your arm position is quite high, so i would think it could lend itself to the googly and top spinner quite well.

Can you bowl with a bent arm? when does it become illegal?

Yes, I have been told that few times that I should flight the ball more, I am trying to do that, but when I do that my brain does it by reducing the spin on the ball, which is never good. So I am guessing that I am bowling at 50-55 miles, which is good to know. No part of my body aches but my fingers get sore and the spinning finger the skin gets cut, which you can see in the video, I put tape on it to prevent that from happening in practice.


Yes, I do have a very good googly and top spinner. I still do not have the control on leg spin on the amount of side spin vs top spin that I impart on the ball, basically the seam position which i think is the most important thing about being a good leg spinner. I notice dip in 10% of the balls which I would want to see more.

I am planning to learn back spinning slider which I think is really a tough ball to bowl, but that would happen only after I can control side spin vs top spin to a degree.. may be 4-5 months and then finally move to flipper which IMO is far easier to bowl than slider. I have not seen a nice slider being bowled apart from warne doing it and getting those lbws.

 

[legspinner_don]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

The action becomes illegal if the arm straightens from a bent position, so if you keep it bent at the same angle then that's ok.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Thanks for the welcome. Looking forward to learning from you guys who seem to be a long way down the road that I'm just starting out on ....



I haven't read this - although judging from this forum it seems to be the legspinners bible. Will order a copy asap. Not entirely sure what a big flick involves but am keen to find out ...

This might help - look at the other clip as well with the flick into the body as that's the technique that helps you produce the Big Leg Break YouTube - Learning the leg break - spinning the ball - giving it a good flick

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Another question to the regulars who practice all through the winter - any of you tried this ball from gray nichols
Amazon.com: Gray-Nicolls Wonderball 5.5 Ounce Cricket Practice Ball: Sports & Outdoors

Supposed to be made of pvc. I can practice on a pitch(matting wicket) only during the season and that too only when the team is practicing. So, I don't get to bowl a lot. The normal cricket balls on the other hand have hte leather and seam rip off very quickly if I use them to bowl on surfaces like concrete or hard tennis courts. This might be a nice alternative.

I had a quick butchers on Amazon.co.uk and it doesn't look like it's available here in blighty, but I'm definitely interested in it - do you know if it's soft on the outside? Yeah it's not available here in the UK - here's another reason we struggle against your lot in cricket - we get ropier gear while you lot get all the top notch stuff!!!!!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hi Guys - Please find my bowling video from front view and back view. All feedback is appreciated. This is my first time I have look at my bowling.

YouTube - myspinsideview.AVI
YouTube - myspinbackview.AVI

Yeah as the others are saying you've got a slightly bent arm through the delivery. You're going to have to work on that initially otherwise you're going to be no-balled all the time. I think I've bowled like this myself when I've really been trying to bowl the Big Leg Break in the effort to get the ball coming out of the cocked wrist right, the arms been bent as well.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

any way you can slow the videos down to slow motion? it might just be an optical illusion, but your bowling arm is quite bent through the delivery, and may straighten a bit as you release. it might just be a trick of the eyes, but if that is the case then you may have to be careful with that else you might get questions raised about the legality of the action.

aside from that it looks pretty good, fairly unorthodox in terms of your bowling arm, but looks effective and pretty quick. you could probably follow through a bit stronger, your action has lots of momentum in the lead up, but after you release the ball you kind of stop dead. you can carry that momentum through for several paces after the delivery, and that will make you rotate stronger.

it looks like a fairly solid action though!

I am recording from my digital camera and I doubt if I can slow it down. I some times think that too my bowling arm being bent, but I have been bowling from 4-5 years in the league and have not been ever even asked about the action.

I think I am not using enough of my shoulder into putting more spin on the ball and if i do that, it should certainly fix the bent arm thing. Any comments?

I have an irregular follow through some times I do and some times don't. When i do i put more momentum into the ball rather than on spinning it. May be to pivot more on bowling foot would naturally lead me into a bigger follow through.

What do you mean my pretty quick, what pace do you think i am bowling at? Should i slow it down? I get enough purchase of the pitch at this pace, say 80% of my balls turn at least a foot which i think is reasonable. so when you say unorthodox it is only in terms of bowling arm being bent right.... as again i feel rest all that i do is fairly orthodox

Have you got the free slo mo software some us use?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

The action becomes illegal if the arm straightens from a bent position, so if you keep it bent at the same angle then that's ok.

Oh! is that the case?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hi Guys - Please find my bowling video from front view and back view. All feedback is appreciated. This is my first time I have look at my bowling.

YouTube - myspinsideview.AVI
YouTube - myspinbackview.AVI

You look like you might be a tricky customer to bat against in the right conditions. You would have to be get a bit of nip off the deck with that action for sure.

Bit unusual to see noticeable armbend in legspin but that looks 100% legal to me.

You are getting in some good positions at key points. I would like to see you lift the front knee more in the rockback but I wouldn't look it at changing your action. Just do that bowling exercise from a standing start that can be done anywhere were you stand with your back foot parallel and really exaggerate the lifting of the left leg as you gather to unwind. But dont consider it a problem or worry about it when you train just do the exercise every day.

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Yeah as the others are saying you've got a slightly bent arm through the delivery. You're going to have to work on that initially otherwise you're going to be no-balled all the time. I think I've bowled like this myself when I've really been trying to bowl the Big Leg Break in the effort to get the ball coming out of the cocked wrist right, the arms been bent as well.

As i mentioned earlier I have been bowling with this action for 4 yrs in the league and have not been even ever questioned. recently in march I played in american college cricket in miami which had the best umpires and was shown live and I was fine (just to emphasize).

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Have you got the free slo mo software some us use?

No, is there some place can I get it?

 

[legspinenthusiast]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

You look like you might be a tricky customer to bat against in the right conditions. You would have to be get a bit of nip off the deck with that action for sure.

Bit unusual to see noticeable armbend in legspin but that looks 100% legal to me.

You are getting in some good positions at key points. I would like to see you lift the front knee more in the rockback but I wouldn't look it at changing your action. Just do that bowling exercise from a standing start that can be done anywhere were you stand with your back foot parallel and really exaggerate the lifting of the left leg as you gather to unwind. But dont consider it a problem or worry about it when you train just do the exercise every day.

thanks macca for reassuring me about the action. I always think about the rock back on the back foot to be more which will naturally make the front foot lift more and again leading to more transfer of weight on front foot and resulting in getting more rotation.

I do get a lot of bounce and have been told that the ball really zips after pitching. do you think I am using enough shoulder, which are the injuries leg spinners get and I do not feel any torque or get sore shoulder.