Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I'm liking what I'm hearing about Benaud. I think I'll count him out of the equation when it comes to posting up the Flipper blog I'm currently working on. So my understanding is that we're still in the position that we're under the impression that Grimmett has been the only 1st class bowler to use the Top-Spinning Flipper? And Jenner and Mallett have both said that it's physically impossible to bowl it over 22 yards - is that right?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;363659 said:
someblokecalleddave;363656 said:
That is a classic slider. Former test spinners Mc Gill and Mathews on the recent ashes coverage where calling that slider "the richie benaud topspinner" and had a great laugh about it.

Swanee got Katich a beauty with the offspinners version in one test.
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I'm having a good night here on the forum! 1st we have a new bloke joining us who sounds like he's up for it. 2nd we get to disrespect Richie Benaud and confine him to a bin marked sneaky B*****d and now I'm getting my Slider endorsed by Macca!
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;363659 said:
someblokecalleddave;363656 said:
Swanee got Katich a beauty with the offspinners version in one test.
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I think even saqlain mushtaq the pakistani offspinner was bowling a flipper in one of the ICL games. It might be on you tube. Saqlain seems to be an offspinner who experiments a lot, and tries what he practices.



As regards Benaud I am sure he knows more than what we know from his writings/videos. I really liked him as a commentator when i used to go to the uk, and he impresses me with his knowledge. He never seemed to say a word out of place. It is surprising how he seems to be reluctant to say anything else. By the way saw him on channel 5 highlights at lords, kept his left hand in his pocket and moved his left leg in a strange internallly rotating manner, seems he may have had a stroke, which i hope is not the case, as I really like the wisdom of the man. Well Macca might not agree, but that is way he comes across to me.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;363663 said:
macca;363659 said:
I think even saqlain mushtaq the pakistani offspinner was bowling a flipper in one of the ICL games. It might be on you tube. Saqlain seems to be an offspinner who experiments a lot, and tries what he practices.



As regards Benaud I am sure he knows more than what we know from his writings/videos. I really liked him as a commentator when i used to go to the uk, and he impresses me with his knowledge. He never seemed to say a word out of place. It is surprising how he seems to be reluctant to say anything else. By the way saw him on channel 5 highlights at lords, kept his left hand in his pocket and moved his left leg in a strange internallly rotating manner, seems he may have had a stroke, which i hope is not the case, as I really like the wisdom of the man. Well Macca might not agree, but that is ho he comes across to me.
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Yeah you're right about him being a good commentator and he's quite forthright with the things he says. I know he had something to say about the fact that some of the crowd at some of the Ashes venues were booing Punter on and off the pitch and he said in a round about way that they were the types that were going around stabbing people when they weren't at the cricket matches! Yeah I thought he looked a bit odd too physically. But he does seem to be a bit up his own Jacksy when it comes to writing about his skills and passing on his knowledge?
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;363659 said:
someblokecalleddave;363656 said:
That is a classic slider. Former test spinners Mc Gill and Mathews on the recent ashes coverage where calling that slider "the richie benaud topspinner" and had a great laugh about it.
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Did not expect that from MacGill. In an interview I read he got interested in legspi when his dad or grand dad showed him some books by grimmett. So he might have done some experimentation as well.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

GoldenArm;363660 said:
i think you're dead right about Benaud. His maudlin and thin explanation of leg spin is ok for getting you intrigued but its not a patch on The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling or Getting Wickets. Judging from that Bruce Dooland story he tells the flipper had suddenly become a big secret in the 60's which is a bit odd. Slider-wise, i'm talking about the one Jenner or Warne specifically called THE slider. as in the one released between the 3rd and 4th finger. The one which is explained far, far better in Philpotts book. the theory makes perfect sense to me but i just cannot fathom how the hell you are supposed to bowl it! i think this may be the only one to elude me without someone to show it to me in person. there's only so much you can teach yourself from books.
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This is the Biggun gone wrong version, which I think I can also do when I'm trying to bowl the big leg break. It strikes me that the variation in wrist position between the Big Leg Break and the Philpott slider is so subtle that I'm unable to do it on demand. When I try and bowl the Big leg Break I get the sense that the ball comes out spinning perfectly 90 degrees to the wicket that it gets no purchase off the pitch and the seam flips over itself and doesn't grip and carries straight on? Whereas sometimes the ball leaves the hand with the seam spinning possibly towards Gully and then it does grip and turns well? But doing either consistently on demands alludes me and it's the thing I'll be working on once the season finishes.

Oh yeah I dared to look at my seasons figures after last weeks disaster and I'm still doing okay - 50.9 - 12 - 237 - 21 which breaks down to Average - 11.29; RPO 4.66; Strike Rate 14.54 and best bowling figures of 4 for 27.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah Dave, that's exactly the one i'm talking about. its a real mind bender. i'm thinking i may have bowled it by accident several times and wondered afterwards why what is supposed to be a big leggie has gone straight on. i wish i could somehow meet up with Philpott and have a net session with him. it'd be fantastic. we're lucky that there is so much information out there on the net and in book form but oh for a mentor!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

GoldenArm;363669 said:
Yeah Dave, that's exactly the one i'm talking about. its a real mind bender. i'm thinking i may have bowled it by accident several times and wondered afterwards why what is supposed to be a big leggie has gone straight on. i wish i could somehow meet up with Philpott and have a net session with him. it'd be fantastic. we're lucky that there is so much information out there on the net and in book form but oh for a mentor!
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Yes, quite a few of us feel that after bowling a biggish leg break we get dissapointed by bowling a non spinning slider next ball. Sometimes i also suspect a big legbreak hits the shiny part of the ball rather than the seam and so mainly goes straight on. But warne said many times, not beats natural variation ie bowling a big leg break and yet the ball does not spin. So if you are surprised at the result, just imagine what the batsman feels!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

GoldenArm;363660 said:
Slider-wise, i'm talking about the one Jenner or Warne specifically called THE slider. as in the one released between the 3rd and 4th finger. The one which is explained far, far better in Philpotts book. the theory makes perfect sense to me but i just cannot fathom how the hell you are supposed to bowl it!
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i presume you mean the "round the loop" back spinner? so far as i can see in Philpotts book he says it is bowled similarly to the "big leg break". you go round the loop from 90 deg leg break so that you are backward of it, imparting a little bit of backspin, and on the right wicket this will skid through low. on a softer wicket it will grip and end up as a big leg break that stays low.

ive gone one further with my version and i look to impart total back spin. its near enough impossible in my eyes, there is always an element of side spin as well. but if i get it just right the side spin doesnt seem to play too large a part, and the backspin does all of the work off the pitch. its probably the most unpredictable of all of the variations as well. sometimes it will skid through, other times it bites and sharply bounces up and then sharply down. then sometimes it will turn away massively, almost at a right angle.

the technique is exactly the same as a leg break. just turn your wrist back in towards your face so that the ball is delivered from underneath the hand. bowl it underarm first (which is basically an upside down version), then do it from a short distance without a run up, maybe even with a tennis ball first. once youve got that working try it properly and take it from there. i had it working awesomely, but ive completely changed my action in the last few weeks and ive lost it again but regained my flipper. im working back towards it though, i can get about 45 degs of backspin now with 45 degs of leg break thrown in too. before i probably had it at around 80 degs back spin, 10 degs leg break though.

with regards the flipper discussion as well, my stock flipper either goes straight or slightly leg breaks. i use my flipper as a wrong'un though as well because i lack a conventional googly at present. the flipper is very easy to bowl as an off break, you simply spin the ball towards the slips instead of dead straight, and you get a back spinning off break. the back spin, if it grips the pitch (it often skids straight through regardless), turns it bigger than it normally would so its actually a very effective wrong'un.

edit: too slow with that reply lol
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Blimey Dan, just read your blog, you know your stuff mate! Exceptionally well written and very eloquent. What do you do in publishing then - the way you write would suggest you're a journalist?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;363673 said:
Blimey Dan, just read your blog, you know your stuff mate! Exceptionally well written and very eloquent. What do you do in publishing then - the way you write would suggest you're a journalist?
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Yes took a look as well, really well written. Keep it up. Do you play regularly and how long have you been bowling leg spin?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;363671 said:
with regards the flipper discussion as well, my stock flipper either goes straight or slightly leg breaks. i use my flipper as a wrong'un though as well because i lack a conventional googly at present. the flipper is very easy to bowl as an off break, you simply spin the ball towards the slips instead of dead straight, and you get a back spinning off break. the back spin, if it grips the pitch (it often skids straight through regardless), turns it bigger than it normally would so its actually a very effective wrong'un.

edit: too slow with that reply lol
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My "common or garden" Flipper has a tendency as Dan (Goldenarm) says to break like a small leg break, but yeah you're right you've only got to angle the seam slightly and the ball will spin like an offie.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i had a practice tonight. i managed to strain a thigh muscle playing last sunday, chasing balls to the boundary i expect. plus ive had a touch of the man-flu all week, and am still enduring it. but my thigh has stopped aching, so i got an hour or so in tonight at the club net session. there were lots of the youth players there, so i had some batsmen to torment. i reckon fearless kids are the hardest batsmen to bowl at. they dont play on merit, they just play. there is minimal thought process about what might happen, just automatic implementation of whatever techniques they have acquired so far in their lives. i reckon adults could learn some lessons from that lol.

anyway, my flight, line and length were all fairly consistent, as was sort of the case during the match last weekend (not so much on the line though, it wandered quite a lot). but there was no turn again. and bearing in mind i know these nets well, so have a direct comparison, whereas on the actual wicket i wasnt sure if it was me or the wicket. so something was obviously wrong.

it took me 50 mins of wasted time to figure it out, but eventually i did. i wasnt rotating enough and following through, i was stopping short and not turning my chest through its full motion over the front pivot foot. as soon as i rectified this i got the ball ripping like it was at last weeks excellent practice, not off a run up though, but i dont care about that, il happily bowl off of 2 steps if thats whats working! but by then it was getting too dark to see the ball, so i had to call it a day. hopefully i can find this form straight away on sunday afternoon in the nets prior to the match so that i can be more effective than last week. my target is 3 wickets, i dont care how i get them lol.

as an aside, one of the kids practicing at the nets played against me last week, he was also umpiring for a while. hes the umpire that denied me what i felt were 2 certain wickets. the first was what i deemed as a plum LBW. i didnt think to ask him during the match why he said no, but he told me this evening that he heard 2 noises, and the batsmen held up his bat and pointed at the inside edge. so he deemed it to be an inside edge, which is fair enough i guess. that thought hadnt even crossed my mind, all i saw was a 1 in the wickets column. the stumping wasnt his fault as he was at the bowlers end so could never have seen it, the batsman should have walked. plus it was an in-club friendly, so im not sure anyone else took it as seriously as i did anyway!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;363682 said:
i had a practice tonight. i managed to strain a thigh muscle playing last sunday, chasing balls to the boundary i expect. plus ive had a touch of the man-flu all week, and am still enduring it. but my thigh has stopped aching, so i got an hour or so in tonight at the club net session. there were lots of the youth players there, so i had some batsmen to torment. i reckon fearless kids are the hardest batsmen to bowl at. they dont play on merit, they just play. there is minimal thought process about what might happen, just automatic implementation of whatever techniques they have acquired so far in their lives. i reckon adults could learn some lessons from that lol.

!
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Yeah I've bowled against these types unfortunately they don't do so well out on the field though!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;363682 said:
as an aside, one of the kids practicing at the nets played against me last week, he was also umpiring for a while. hes the umpire that denied me what i felt were 2 certain wickets. the first was what i deemed as a plum LBW. i didnt think to ask him during the match why he said no, but he told me this evening that he heard 2 noises, and the batsmen held up his bat and pointed at the inside edge. so he deemed it to be an inside edge, which is fair enough i guess. that thought hadnt even crossed my mind, all i saw was a 1 in the wickets column. the stumping wasnt his fault as he was at the bowlers end so could never have seen it, the batsman should have walked. plus it was an in-club friendly, so im not sure anyone else took it as seriously as i did anyway!
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Jim, at least your asking the question on your LBW's I'm still crap at this, did it again this weekend in a muck about game with all the Dads and coaches at my kids teams fun day. Plum LBW and didn't say a thing and the umpire looked at me - I looked at him and then though 'Oh yeah - crap I've done it again'.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;363685 said:
Jim, at least your asking the question on your LBW's I'm still crap at this, did it again this weekend in a muck about game with all the Dads and coaches at my kids teams fun day. Plum LBW and didn't say a thing and the umpire looked at me - I looked at him and then though 'Oh yeah - crap I've done it again'.
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i really go for it with regards asking the questions!! club cricketers all seem to be quite shy in asking, even when its plum they literally ask the question, just a quiet and polite "how is he?".

then i stroll up to bowl, nobody knows who i am because its my first game. one good delivery thats outsmarted the batsman and im turned around staring the umpire square in the face, knees bent, arms raised up literally shouting "owwww isss 'eeeeee????" as loud as i possibly can, prolonging it for about 10 seconds lol.

it didnt help, i still didnt get the wicket. but it got a few laughs from guys sat in front of the pavillion lol. a few balls later and i did it again, appealing a stumping to the wrong umpire haha.

its all part of the fun for me, gets batsmen either wound up or worried as well. because it was an in-club friendly i kept the banter to a minimum with the batsmen. i gave as good as i got when i was out there batting. against an outside team there will be some more chat im sure. a few more "oohs" and "aahs" ala Shane Warne. some "keep playing that shot mate. all day long" comments maybe.

i think eye contact is the most important though. a stare can speak a thousand words. throw in a smirk as well and the job is done!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Cheers Dave and Sadspinner! really means a lot to know people are enjoying my writing. i actually just graduated from uni this year, trying to get a job in publishing at the mo which is proving nigh on impossible. i'm also trying on the side to be a novelist and a cricket journo. i'm using my blog to build up a little portfolio of cricket articles. I've been playing cricket at uni regularly this season and every sat for my club. shame uni had to finish, plenty of time for nets! not to mention the extra games. i've been bowling leggies for almost 3 years now, i used to be a medium pace swing bowler but i did a bit of a grimmett and got spotted by an old school master trying out a leg break (not really having any idea what i was doing) and he got very excited about it. i didn't know what all the fuss was about at the time and went back to swing bowling. But that must have planted the seed of what would happen at uni. after years of not playing i got back into cricket in a big way and started watching all the bbc and you tube videos i could find. I changed my grip to the 2 up 2 down and practiced bleeding hard for 2 1/2 years until i started to get good. Benaud reckons it takes 4 years to get to a decent level, i'm inclined to agree with him!
 
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