Wrist Spin Bowling
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
They just have to pick the best one of the 3 or 4 that are there, but this is more of an issue right at the end of the season and maybe fairly unique to our wicket as the council maintain it so badly. We've got a roller and use it all the time. With regards the bats - yeah it's hit almost on the toe when it gets this bad.
sadspinner;347277 said:
They just have to pick the best one of the 3 or 4 that are there, but this is more of an issue right at the end of the season and maybe fairly unique to our wicket as the council maintain it so badly. We've got a roller and use it all the time. With regards the bats - yeah it's hit almost on the toe when it gets this bad.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
This sounds like my 'Basic Leg Break' the one without the big flick. It sounds as though Shuey.......... "One of my development coaches gave my some advice, he said that at the moment my palm or face of hand is facing the wrong way during end of delivery. He wants me to face it more straight down the wicket so i get more spin".
Is being advised to do exactly what I do, which is good to hear from my point of view as my Leg break as you know has come about by a lot of trial and error and I'm not 100% whether I'm barking up the wrong tree or not. It'd be good to hear from Shuey as to whether he's aware of the role that his 3rd finger is playing in getting the ball to spin and how concious he is of how the 3rd finger is doing it's job. I'm still mucking about with the grip because slight subtle variations make big differences it seems in how much top spin is imparted. It's interesting that Macca points out that this way of bowling the leg break creates a scrambled seam and not particularly fast revs on the ball because I'm assuming you're not ripping it with a the added wrist flick?
macca;347004 said:
This sounds like my 'Basic Leg Break' the one without the big flick. It sounds as though Shuey.......... "One of my development coaches gave my some advice, he said that at the moment my palm or face of hand is facing the wrong way during end of delivery. He wants me to face it more straight down the wicket so i get more spin".
Is being advised to do exactly what I do, which is good to hear from my point of view as my Leg break as you know has come about by a lot of trial and error and I'm not 100% whether I'm barking up the wrong tree or not. It'd be good to hear from Shuey as to whether he's aware of the role that his 3rd finger is playing in getting the ball to spin and how concious he is of how the 3rd finger is doing it's job. I'm still mucking about with the grip because slight subtle variations make big differences it seems in how much top spin is imparted. It's interesting that Macca points out that this way of bowling the leg break creates a scrambled seam and not particularly fast revs on the ball because I'm assuming you're not ripping it with a the added wrist flick?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I like that - that's funny!
sadspinner;347278 said:
I like that - that's funny!
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Originally Posted by macca
We had a bowl this morning, bowling into a breeze from fine leg he was getting drift into the wind with an indoor ball, I dont know how that works. The ball is old but the seam is still high.
We only bowled 4 overs but he finished up with this palm ball he got shown and it really has potential as a simple variation. It behaved different from everything else he bowled and hit the stumps. It seemed to come at a different angle of flight with a scrambled slow spinning seam, no turn, but from where I was behind the stumps it looked a lot like his legbreak until it pitched and came straight on at an angle from just outside off. He only bowled 2 the second one behaved exactly the same.
It sounds like Warne's slider that he bowls on the Nicholas video. It looks like a leg break but as it is not ripped it goes straight. The batsman plays for turn, but finds it is a straight one. Ouch out lbw. It could also behave like a small backspinner philpott says Holland the leg spinner used to bowl. I think he says it was sort of palmed out of the hand. To me though sounds more like a warne slider( as we discussed earlier, jenner's slider is completely different as it is a backspinner).
Originally Posted by macca
We had a bowl this morning, bowling into a breeze from fine leg he was getting drift into the wind with an indoor ball, I dont know how that works. The ball is old but the seam is still high.
We only bowled 4 overs but he finished up with this palm ball he got shown and it really has potential as a simple variation. It behaved different from everything else he bowled and hit the stumps. It seemed to come at a different angle of flight with a scrambled slow spinning seam, no turn, but from where I was behind the stumps it looked a lot like his legbreak until it pitched and came straight on at an angle from just outside off. He only bowled 2 the second one behaved exactly the same.
It sounds like Warne's slider that he bowls on the Nicholas video. It looks like a leg break but as it is not ripped it goes straight. The batsman plays for turn, but finds it is a straight one. Ouch out lbw. It could also behave like a small backspinner philpott says Holland the leg spinner used to bowl. I think he says it was sort of palmed out of the hand. To me though sounds more like a warne slider( as we discussed earlier, jenner's slider is completely different as it is a backspinner).
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yes it looks easy but could never get down to getting it right. I agree with you, macca and the great grummet. When I get round to practising, I am concentrating for 99 per cent of the time on the leg break. Today it was quite windy and in the air you could see the ball changing trajectory. I also used more pivot on the left leg, pivoting on the tip of my toes. It turned more. Unfortunately I have had a bad knee for the last months that hampers too many pirouttes on my left leg.
Also I agree that people who follow this thread, who probably have more experience than us, should come forward and share their views, and experiences, we are very curious to hear from them.
By the way any practice today dave,or did work eat out much of your time? And how are your fingers and chest? God that ball hurts especially if like me you have never played before your late 30's
someblokecalleddave;347279 said:
Yes it looks easy but could never get down to getting it right. I agree with you, macca and the great grummet. When I get round to practising, I am concentrating for 99 per cent of the time on the leg break. Today it was quite windy and in the air you could see the ball changing trajectory. I also used more pivot on the left leg, pivoting on the tip of my toes. It turned more. Unfortunately I have had a bad knee for the last months that hampers too many pirouttes on my left leg.
Also I agree that people who follow this thread, who probably have more experience than us, should come forward and share their views, and experiences, we are very curious to hear from them.
By the way any practice today dave,or did work eat out much of your time? And how are your fingers and chest? God that ball hurts especially if like me you have never played before your late 30's
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I think your captain needs a bit of pestering. I am getting morbidly curious about this video.
someblokecalleddave;346928 said:
I think your captain needs a bit of pestering. I am getting morbidly curious about this video.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
The best thing about the slider that jenner demos is if it comes out wrong you get a big leg break, but it wouldn't make a stockball as it turns wide but slow, but will often be the last delivery that stops turning if you know what I mean.
Mc Gill was a good bowler of that ball, he did not use a flipper. I have seen Warne bowl it especially early on in his career. But post shoulder op not so much. I have seen footage of Benaud bowling it. Bob Simpson bowled it so did Jimmy Higgs, Doug Ring of course, I think it was originally called the skimmer which describes its behavour off the pitch whereas slider describes its path to the batsman.
The best thing about the slider that jenner demos is if it comes out wrong you get a big leg break, but it wouldn't make a stockball as it turns wide but slow, but will often be the last delivery that stops turning if you know what I mean.
Mc Gill was a good bowler of that ball, he did not use a flipper. I have seen Warne bowl it especially early on in his career. But post shoulder op not so much. I have seen footage of Benaud bowling it. Bob Simpson bowled it so did Jimmy Higgs, Doug Ring of course, I think it was originally called the skimmer which describes its behavour off the pitch whereas slider describes its path to the batsman.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I do not know whether this is your side, but me thinks thay could do with another leggie and some solid lower/tail end hitting Grays & Chadwell CC - Play-Cricket - Hornchurch Athletic CC - 2nd XI vs Grays & Chadwell CC - Sunday 2nd
I do not know whether this is your side, but me thinks thay could do with another leggie and some solid lower/tail end hitting Grays & Chadwell CC - Play-Cricket - Hornchurch Athletic CC - 2nd XI vs Grays & Chadwell CC - Sunday 2nd
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
No I was at work till 9pm tonight and I seem to have suffered at the weekend from the game and I'm generally worn out all over bodily. (Might be the beginnings of swine flu or something)!!!? The chest is sore to touch, but there's no bruise as far as I know, there's not enough flesh. the ball hit dead centre in the manubrium Google Image Result for http://www.daviddarling.info/images/rib-cage.jpg and there's no meat there at all. The fingers are okay they've recovered already they just got severely pinged. A bloke in his early 40's died in Cornwall 2-3 years ago from a similar accident and he was a fit and healthy bloke, but it hit him in the centre further down. I sure wont be volunteering to field at short extra cover in the future with any real enthusiasm!
No I was at work till 9pm tonight and I seem to have suffered at the weekend from the game and I'm generally worn out all over bodily. (Might be the beginnings of swine flu or something)!!!? The chest is sore to touch, but there's no bruise as far as I know, there's not enough flesh. the ball hit dead centre in the manubrium Google Image Result for http://www.daviddarling.info/images/rib-cage.jpg and there's no meat there at all. The fingers are okay they've recovered already they just got severely pinged. A bloke in his early 40's died in Cornwall 2-3 years ago from a similar accident and he was a fit and healthy bloke, but it hit him in the centre further down. I sure wont be volunteering to field at short extra cover in the future with any real enthusiasm!
sadspinner
Member
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
You should try getting a PhD on cricketing history Macca. I never saw a clip with MacGill bowling it, but mast admit that I only saw him live in the windies last year, all the others from older clips. He did have a great wrong one though. Never saw any footage of Benaud except one I had posted here a few weeks back. I know he had taken part in an MCC video in the 80's demonstrating something on leg spin, but have never seen the clips.
macca;347283 said:
You should try getting a PhD on cricketing history Macca. I never saw a clip with MacGill bowling it, but mast admit that I only saw him live in the windies last year, all the others from older clips. He did have a great wrong one though. Never saw any footage of Benaud except one I had posted here a few weeks back. I know he had taken part in an MCC video in the 80's demonstrating something on leg spin, but have never seen the clips.
shuey_cricket
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
yeah im back
well its the off season so i dont get much chance to train
but i have been practising you advice and it seems to be workin with the ball spining alot more
yeah im back
well its the off season so i dont get much chance to train
but i have been practising you advice and it seems to be workin with the ball spining alot more
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Oh so you are brushing up on your anatomy too. Yes the only game I had , I fielded at shortish midwicket, but on delivery moved slowly to deeper midwicket, stopped a fullblooded drive and thought I would pick pieces of my bones from the grass. Maybe you should try silly point, no wonder it is called silly.
And regards the flu, look out for any suspicious fever and contacts that have been abroad. I am dreading working at my hospital. Lets hope for the best.
someblokecalleddave;347284 said:
Oh so you are brushing up on your anatomy too. Yes the only game I had , I fielded at shortish midwicket, but on delivery moved slowly to deeper midwicket, stopped a fullblooded drive and thought I would pick pieces of my bones from the grass. Maybe you should try silly point, no wonder it is called silly.
And regards the flu, look out for any suspicious fever and contacts that have been abroad. I am dreading working at my hospital. Lets hope for the best.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
That link has been out of action for a while - now it's back in action I'll put my name in for the next few games. Looking at the other link it looks as though they're playing one of the new blokes in place of me and he's an off-spinner (Jay) and it looks as though he's doing okay.
That link has been out of action for a while - now it's back in action I'll put my name in for the next few games. Looking at the other link it looks as though they're playing one of the new blokes in place of me and he's an off-spinner (Jay) and it looks as though he's doing okay.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
At last I've had an explanation regarding the selection process which was honest and blunt. We're rammed with so many good players that the first team players have had to join the 2nd team to get a game and the likes of me have have been shoved off the bottom into a potential 3rd team. My ex captain has said that in the next week or so the 3rd team should be shaping up to become a regular team and I'll be back in action then. So I suppose they're sorting fixtures and what have you at the moment and hopefully I'll be back in the game? In the meantime I've potentially got a game on Saturday so I'll have to speak to 'The Boss' but I'm feeling a bit ropey at the minute as I've come down with a cold or something.
At last I've had an explanation regarding the selection process which was honest and blunt. We're rammed with so many good players that the first team players have had to join the 2nd team to get a game and the likes of me have have been shoved off the bottom into a potential 3rd team. My ex captain has said that in the next week or so the 3rd team should be shaping up to become a regular team and I'll be back in action then. So I suppose they're sorting fixtures and what have you at the moment and hopefully I'll be back in the game? In the meantime I've potentially got a game on Saturday so I'll have to speak to 'The Boss' but I'm feeling a bit ropey at the minute as I've come down with a cold or something.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah that's them and the people that are edging me out of the picture are doing okay, so I wont be holding my breath waiting for a game.
sadspinner;347204 said:
Yeah that's them and the people that are edging me out of the picture are doing okay, so I wont be holding my breath waiting for a game.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Dooland and Benaud amongst others did well and first class pitches are better than the rest, but gee you might find it hard going bowling early in the season. Warne struggled early in the season in England the couple of times he played league cricket there before he was famous. They reckon he used to struggle to get a game in club cricket in Melbourne early in their season with new wickets weekly.
When and if it turns to a dust bowl you may do as good as anyone else, but man, you need that bounce and wind.
I have heard Jenner say that all the talk of English wickets being no good for legspin is bullshit, but he would say that, as it suits him to keep them on a never ending and exspensive search to find one. He cites how successful Warne and Grimmett were, but they were two of the greatest bowlers in history.someblokecalleddave;347275 said:
Dooland and Benaud amongst others did well and first class pitches are better than the rest, but gee you might find it hard going bowling early in the season. Warne struggled early in the season in England the couple of times he played league cricket there before he was famous. They reckon he used to struggle to get a game in club cricket in Melbourne early in their season with new wickets weekly.
When and if it turns to a dust bowl you may do as good as anyone else, but man, you need that bounce and wind.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
The off season is a good time to work on your bowling if you can find time. You can muck about with some new deliveries or spend a lot a time on your variations , like the wrongun, without the danger of it affecting your bowling with a match around the corner.
Grimmett warns of having too many deliveries on the go at once. He said he "pruned" his range in the actual season, whilst working on just about every type of ball out of season. For instance he says once he got his flipper perfected he hardly ever used his wrongun except to lefthanders. He said this was because he didn't like too many tools on hand at once for the job at any one time.
If he couldn't take a wicket he could always dig into his bag of tricks if need be, but like O'Rielly and Benaud he strongly advises against too much variety at once except in rare circumstances.
The off season is a good time to work on your bowling if you can find time. You can muck about with some new deliveries or spend a lot a time on your variations , like the wrongun, without the danger of it affecting your bowling with a match around the corner.
Grimmett warns of having too many deliveries on the go at once. He said he "pruned" his range in the actual season, whilst working on just about every type of ball out of season. For instance he says once he got his flipper perfected he hardly ever used his wrongun except to lefthanders. He said this was because he didn't like too many tools on hand at once for the job at any one time.
If he couldn't take a wicket he could always dig into his bag of tricks if need be, but like O'Rielly and Benaud he strongly advises against too much variety at once except in rare circumstances.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Hey guys, i just came back from cricket training for the first time in a year, I was surprised to see i was hitting a consistent length and line around middle and offstump but there was one problem which confused me. I was giving it a rip like i always did, last season. But the ball didin't turn, I had my follow through, pivot all going right but the ball just went straight on. Anyone else had this kind of problem with losing their turn on the first day back to training ? Is this just a temporary problem. I know i wasen't bowling topspinners because i have always concentrated on the legbreak for the past 2 yrs of bowling legspin. So if someone can tell me why this has happened and tell me if this is just a temporary problem which will be sorted out by it self. I am left with a sore third finger without the satisfaction of the generation of spin being observed..
Hey guys, i just came back from cricket training for the first time in a year, I was surprised to see i was hitting a consistent length and line around middle and offstump but there was one problem which confused me. I was giving it a rip like i always did, last season. But the ball didin't turn, I had my follow through, pivot all going right but the ball just went straight on. Anyone else had this kind of problem with losing their turn on the first day back to training ? Is this just a temporary problem. I know i wasen't bowling topspinners because i have always concentrated on the legbreak for the past 2 yrs of bowling legspin. So if someone can tell me why this has happened and tell me if this is just a temporary problem which will be sorted out by it self. I am left with a sore third finger without the satisfaction of the generation of spin being observed..
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
As Macca has said above (I'm not knowledgable on this) it could be because the wickets are still green and damp and haven't been rolled much yet? Or have you been practicing Wrong Un's too much lately?
As Macca has said above (I'm not knowledgable on this) it could be because the wickets are still green and damp and haven't been rolled much yet? Or have you been practicing Wrong Un's too much lately?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
All the pitches are brand new just having been cut and rolled for the first time. This in itself is a complex issue, I once saw Boycott drop a ball on a wicket in the West Indies during the world cup from shoulder height and the ball almost bounced back up to the same height! Suggesting the pitch was almost as hard as concrete. This also brings in the issues regarding the quality of the balls your using as well. There's obviously an enormous difference between the £65 a go Kookaburra and Dukes balls compared to the £10 balls that we get to use. The balls combined with the differing standards of wickets needless to say has a big impact on how much you can get the ball to turn. 95% of my practice occurs on football pitches that are grassy and on these pitches I can get the ball to bounce and spin really well in the direction that I want it to. The other 5% is with plastic hockey balls on smooth tarmac and concrete and again the ball bounces in a way that corresponds to the spin you're putting on it. So up till recently I've been of the opinion that these skills and techniques would readily transfer to a proper cricket wicket. But the reality is that they don't. If you were to do the Boycott ball drop on a wicket here I'm sure that it would barely bounce back up 6". So you have to assume that you're not going to get much out of the wickets I play on. The point made about Grimmett earlier and his limiting of his different balls is interesting and one that I might adopt in view of the non-responsive wickets. Maybe Top Spinners and Flippers if there's no turn being offered?
The wicket I played on at the weekend is particularly non-responsive and it's one that I've practiced on with permission from the Groundsman before on several occassions and it just doesn't offer any assistance with spin at all. I practice on the outfield quite frequently and at the end of the session I'll bowl 6 balls down the track to see if I can get the ball to turn and I never can. As yet this year as it's only been cut last weekend I've not been able to try it out, but when I get the chance I'll give it ago and see if I can get it to turn?
With regards the variations I reckon I'll stick with the Leg Break and see how that works out and also use the Top-Spinner and Flipper. I'm hoping the Leg Break will serve me well, if it does I might change my mind and limit it down to that and the Wrong Un. I'll have to see how it goes over the next few weeks.
macca;347242 said:
All the pitches are brand new just having been cut and rolled for the first time. This in itself is a complex issue, I once saw Boycott drop a ball on a wicket in the West Indies during the world cup from shoulder height and the ball almost bounced back up to the same height! Suggesting the pitch was almost as hard as concrete. This also brings in the issues regarding the quality of the balls your using as well. There's obviously an enormous difference between the £65 a go Kookaburra and Dukes balls compared to the £10 balls that we get to use. The balls combined with the differing standards of wickets needless to say has a big impact on how much you can get the ball to turn. 95% of my practice occurs on football pitches that are grassy and on these pitches I can get the ball to bounce and spin really well in the direction that I want it to. The other 5% is with plastic hockey balls on smooth tarmac and concrete and again the ball bounces in a way that corresponds to the spin you're putting on it. So up till recently I've been of the opinion that these skills and techniques would readily transfer to a proper cricket wicket. But the reality is that they don't. If you were to do the Boycott ball drop on a wicket here I'm sure that it would barely bounce back up 6". So you have to assume that you're not going to get much out of the wickets I play on. The point made about Grimmett earlier and his limiting of his different balls is interesting and one that I might adopt in view of the non-responsive wickets. Maybe Top Spinners and Flippers if there's no turn being offered?
The wicket I played on at the weekend is particularly non-responsive and it's one that I've practiced on with permission from the Groundsman before on several occassions and it just doesn't offer any assistance with spin at all. I practice on the outfield quite frequently and at the end of the session I'll bowl 6 balls down the track to see if I can get the ball to turn and I never can. As yet this year as it's only been cut last weekend I've not been able to try it out, but when I get the chance I'll give it ago and see if I can get it to turn?
With regards the variations I reckon I'll stick with the Leg Break and see how that works out and also use the Top-Spinner and Flipper. I'm hoping the Leg Break will serve me well, if it does I might change my mind and limit it down to that and the Wrong Un. I'll have to see how it goes over the next few weeks.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
What do we all reckon to having periods when you don't practice for a good few days? I've said before that if you get frustrated with your bowling and you seem to be in a rut there might be some value in taking a break so that you come back to it with a slightly different approach.
I bowled exceptionally bad on Sunday. It maybe that I bowled a solid three hours in two stints on Saturday and I may have just been knackered or didn't have a warm up before bowling? But Since Sunday I've virtually not been near a ball and then tonight I picked up a ball while I was watching England taking apart the Windies and was flicking it while I was watching the tele. Then I noticed that I was holding the ball slightly differently with an exaggerated emphasis on the 3rd and fourth finger with the up fingers almost not touching the ball and it seemed to be flicking really well.
So I've just been outside and thrown the ball over a shortish distance and really got it to turn big with a big flick and it felt really promising. I also seemed to be bowling my Flippers really fast as well and yet I'm Ill (Got a crappy cold). I've potentially got a game on Saturday but I don't know if I'm up for it with this cold and that's after waiting so long to get a game. There's no justice is there!
What do we all reckon to having periods when you don't practice for a good few days? I've said before that if you get frustrated with your bowling and you seem to be in a rut there might be some value in taking a break so that you come back to it with a slightly different approach.
I bowled exceptionally bad on Sunday. It maybe that I bowled a solid three hours in two stints on Saturday and I may have just been knackered or didn't have a warm up before bowling? But Since Sunday I've virtually not been near a ball and then tonight I picked up a ball while I was watching England taking apart the Windies and was flicking it while I was watching the tele. Then I noticed that I was holding the ball slightly differently with an exaggerated emphasis on the 3rd and fourth finger with the up fingers almost not touching the ball and it seemed to be flicking really well.
So I've just been outside and thrown the ball over a shortish distance and really got it to turn big with a big flick and it felt really promising. I also seemed to be bowling my Flippers really fast as well and yet I'm Ill (Got a crappy cold). I've potentially got a game on Saturday but I don't know if I'm up for it with this cold and that's after waiting so long to get a game. There's no justice is there!
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
The wicket I played on at the weekend is particularly non-responsive and it's one that I've practiced on with permission from the Groundsman before on several occassions and it just doesn't offer any assistance with spin at all. I practice on the outfield quite frequently and at the end of the session I'll bowl 6 balls down the track to see if I can get the ball to turn and I never can. As yet this year as it's only been cut last weekend I've not been able to try it out, but when I get the chance I'll give it ago and see if I can get it to turn?
So you will have to try to beat them in flight, and subtle variations. Today saw parts of the IPL matches and Mishra(legspinner) and Murali Karthik (left arm orthodox spinner), did not turn it one inch despite the fact that they were bowling large sidespinners, but they were still the most economical of bowlers, Warne even took 2 wickets in 4 overs!
But as you say it is quite disconcerting bowling on concrete/tarmac surfaces and getting decent turn, then changing surface and getting none. Today I went to a nearby field and the ball as you say barely bounced 6 inches even with topspin. About 20 percent turned like leg breaks, but am not sure if it was due to irregularity of the surface. But on the bright side at least without trying I could bowl a straight one onto the stumps. Probably the wickets in the UK will be more conducive to spin later in the summer when they start cracking and crumbling, so helping grip. Pray for a dry summer so.
The wicket I played on at the weekend is particularly non-responsive and it's one that I've practiced on with permission from the Groundsman before on several occassions and it just doesn't offer any assistance with spin at all. I practice on the outfield quite frequently and at the end of the session I'll bowl 6 balls down the track to see if I can get the ball to turn and I never can. As yet this year as it's only been cut last weekend I've not been able to try it out, but when I get the chance I'll give it ago and see if I can get it to turn?
So you will have to try to beat them in flight, and subtle variations. Today saw parts of the IPL matches and Mishra(legspinner) and Murali Karthik (left arm orthodox spinner), did not turn it one inch despite the fact that they were bowling large sidespinners, but they were still the most economical of bowlers, Warne even took 2 wickets in 4 overs!
But as you say it is quite disconcerting bowling on concrete/tarmac surfaces and getting decent turn, then changing surface and getting none. Today I went to a nearby field and the ball as you say barely bounced 6 inches even with topspin. About 20 percent turned like leg breaks, but am not sure if it was due to irregularity of the surface. But on the bright side at least without trying I could bowl a straight one onto the stumps. Probably the wickets in the UK will be more conducive to spin later in the summer when they start cracking and crumbling, so helping grip. Pray for a dry summer so.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
What do you think Macca which delivery do you figure it is? And any other tips they gave your son? Or does the aussie association have some sort of DVD like the ECB's about leg spin equivalent to the wings to fly. You do not find these even on you tube. Must be some state secret me thinks.
sadspinner;347201 said:
What do you think Macca which delivery do you figure it is? And any other tips they gave your son? Or does the aussie association have some sort of DVD like the ECB's about leg spin equivalent to the wings to fly. You do not find these even on you tube. Must be some state secret me thinks.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yes, A couple of guys who were offspinners got their offies to turn, And I bowled one googly out of many legbreaks, and my googly turned very slightly to the right. But i had no luck with my legbreak, I was doing everything right with the seam pointing to slips and bowling with effort. There is one slight difference i made, i started to hold the ball more in the fingers than the wrist, as last season i just gave it a wrist flick with the ball in the palm, Now by using my third finger more,Could it be it has altered my wrist position slightly into being more straight?
Yes, A couple of guys who were offspinners got their offies to turn, And I bowled one googly out of many legbreaks, and my googly turned very slightly to the right. But i had no luck with my legbreak, I was doing everything right with the seam pointing to slips and bowling with effort. There is one slight difference i made, i started to hold the ball more in the fingers than the wrist, as last season i just gave it a wrist flick with the ball in the palm, Now by using my third finger more,Could it be it has altered my wrist position slightly into being more straight?
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah there are some dvd,s some of it is on youtube like the mc gill stuff. I am doing my level 1 coaching now so I will be getting them soon and I will share any thing I can.
The delivery is a slider but that is a slightly confusing term as it applies to a type of a delivery rather than one in particular these days. It was sold as a zooter and it is the easiest variation my son has tried. He has only bowled it twice, but it shows promise.
My sons problem is he has been a legspinner from day one and finds it impossible to bowl a seamer! but the ball held back in his palm makes it possible somehow.
Yeah there are some dvd,s some of it is on youtube like the mc gill stuff. I am doing my level 1 coaching now so I will be getting them soon and I will share any thing I can.
The delivery is a slider but that is a slightly confusing term as it applies to a type of a delivery rather than one in particular these days. It was sold as a zooter and it is the easiest variation my son has tried. He has only bowled it twice, but it shows promise.
My sons problem is he has been a legspinner from day one and finds it impossible to bowl a seamer! but the ball held back in his palm makes it possible somehow.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
There's definitely potential for the slight change you've made to make some difference. Did you watch the cricket tonight on C5. They showed a close up of Swanns 2 balls that he took 2 consecutive wickets with. One was the arm ball and the other spun away towards Leg side, but you could hardly see any difference in the hand/fingers the only difference was in the flight of the ball. The arm ball had a scrambled seam and the Off-spinner had perfectly rotating seam albeit slow, but it still turned. The subtleties of the release were hardly discernable so your big change in grip might be having a big affect on your delivery?
There's definitely potential for the slight change you've made to make some difference. Did you watch the cricket tonight on C5. They showed a close up of Swanns 2 balls that he took 2 consecutive wickets with. One was the arm ball and the other spun away towards Leg side, but you could hardly see any difference in the hand/fingers the only difference was in the flight of the ball. The arm ball had a scrambled seam and the Off-spinner had perfectly rotating seam albeit slow, but it still turned. The subtleties of the release were hardly discernable so your big change in grip might be having a big affect on your delivery?
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yes, I always suspected that warne's slider and the zooter were practically the same delivery. So warne didn't use a backspinner besides the flipper. I do not think i have seen any such delivery on you tube, on the other hand he got bell with a slder when bell was playing for leg spin.
Yes, I always suspected that warne's slider and the zooter were practically the same delivery. So warne didn't use a backspinner besides the flipper. I do not think i have seen any such delivery on you tube, on the other hand he got bell with a slder when bell was playing for leg spin.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Could be true because before i was forcing the ball out of the hand which prompted greater potential for the ball to turn now it seems a nice, gentle flick out of the hand, nice and easy. I think i should go back to my old method by uncocking a stiffly cocked wrist at point of delivery which gave the ball alot of momentum. . The reason i changed was because my new grip has made the googly easier to bowl and easier for me to control deliveries too.
Could be true because before i was forcing the ball out of the hand which prompted greater potential for the ball to turn now it seems a nice, gentle flick out of the hand, nice and easy. I think i should go back to my old method by uncocking a stiffly cocked wrist at point of delivery which gave the ball alot of momentum. . The reason i changed was because my new grip has made the googly easier to bowl and easier for me to control deliveries too.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I dont know anything about English wickets but ideally the best wickets for a legspinner are close to those of an ideal batting wicket. A bit of wear of course is best but a hard well evenly grassed bouncy pitch where you can gather nip off the deck combined with a headwind is what you need. A slow seaming one with no bounce would be the worst and the average legspinner would not expect a game.
I thought like saddo that Daves day may come later on if you get a summer like 1975 and things dry out and harden up.
I dont know anything about English wickets but ideally the best wickets for a legspinner are close to those of an ideal batting wicket. A bit of wear of course is best but a hard well evenly grassed bouncy pitch where you can gather nip off the deck combined with a headwind is what you need. A slow seaming one with no bounce would be the worst and the average legspinner would not expect a game.
I thought like saddo that Daves day may come later on if you get a summer like 1975 and things dry out and harden up.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
You have done well coming back from a long lay off and getting your line and length straight away. That is a good sign. Maybe it is your new grip causing the problem which sounds like an improvement on the more palm grip you had.
Sometimes if you are really in full flight as a bowler , and your topspinner and legbreak are close anyway , it is hard for the you, the bowler ,to tell if your wrist is aligned properly.
Another legspinner or a coach might be able to observe you and help. You could film yourself ? Do some work in front of a mirror.
Maybe you could try exaggerating your release by bowling close against a wall and really forcing that " traffic cop " finish for the legbreak. The wall never lies and if you are releasing topspinners at it they will come straight back at 90 degrees.
Ripping-LegBreak;347543 said:
You have done well coming back from a long lay off and getting your line and length straight away. That is a good sign. Maybe it is your new grip causing the problem which sounds like an improvement on the more palm grip you had.
Sometimes if you are really in full flight as a bowler , and your topspinner and legbreak are close anyway , it is hard for the you, the bowler ,to tell if your wrist is aligned properly.
Another legspinner or a coach might be able to observe you and help. You could film yourself ? Do some work in front of a mirror.
Maybe you could try exaggerating your release by bowling close against a wall and really forcing that " traffic cop " finish for the legbreak. The wall never lies and if you are releasing topspinners at it they will come straight back at 90 degrees.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
And maybe hope for a lot of rough outside the right handers leg stump to bowl them the massive leg break for another ball of the century, or at least get them round their legs. Dream on, but I am a saddo after all!
macca;347273 said:
And maybe hope for a lot of rough outside the right handers leg stump to bowl them the massive leg break for another ball of the century, or at least get them round their legs. Dream on, but I am a saddo after all!
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Thanks for the feedback guys , I'll see how next training goes, and see if it comes back, But i guess i did do well first day back and hopefully i'll understand this problem better. Meanwhile i'll see how it goes with the tapeball in the back garden.
Thanks for the feedback guys , I'll see how next training goes, and see if it comes back, But i guess i did do well first day back and hopefully i'll understand this problem better. Meanwhile i'll see how it goes with the tapeball in the back garden.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
That sounds like a good place to be - bowling leg breaks with no effort whatsoever! I'm sure the straight ball will come, maybe over do it turn the wrist too far so that it starts to become a wrong un? Maybe that'll work as a straight ball?
Re our wickets - I'm of the impression that they get worse, they almost become powdery so you're almost bowling into a sandy consistency! That's what Grays was like last year, no-one could get the ball to bounce. I think your 1975 was in fact 1976 when we had at 30 degrees + for over a month? We've had better since there was a brilliant summer a few years back when we had our hottest day of 38 degrees and most sun but it was scattered across the summer rather than concentrated in one big continuous run of sunshine like 76.
That sounds like a good place to be - bowling leg breaks with no effort whatsoever! I'm sure the straight ball will come, maybe over do it turn the wrist too far so that it starts to become a wrong un? Maybe that'll work as a straight ball?
Re our wickets - I'm of the impression that they get worse, they almost become powdery so you're almost bowling into a sandy consistency! That's what Grays was like last year, no-one could get the ball to bounce. I think your 1975 was in fact 1976 when we had at 30 degrees + for over a month? We've had better since there was a brilliant summer a few years back when we had our hottest day of 38 degrees and most sun but it was scattered across the summer rather than concentrated in one big continuous run of sunshine like 76.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
They were both offbreaks actually according to atherton on sky, and i agree. The first went straight , the second that got chanderpaul, hit some rough/footholds and spun/deviated. That is why they looked the same. The arm ball should not have the revs like an offbreak. It has a small element of backspin as opposed to side+topspin, and might swing slightly in the air. You see many commentators getting it wrong, especially when leg spin is involved.In the Ipl when Kumble took 5 for 5, they saw a flipper that actually was a small leak break that did not turn(possibly a slider like warne's, but definetely not a flipper). Boycott today on bbc radio was saying that aussies had a Mcbryce something that was carted along the park in S Africa. His job is cricket and does not even know he is bryce mcgain, so I would not always go on what commentators say. So, Swann's deliveries where both offbreaks and they reacted differently due to natural variation, which according to warne is the biggest variation. He states that sometimes he would bowl a big leg break and that for some reason would go straight on. If it fooled warnie, it would be guaranteed to fool the batsman.
Also today Afridi (pakistani leg spinner/bighitter), took 3 wickets for about 18 off 4 overs in a 20/20 game. The aussies did not have much of a clue against him. He is faster than warnie through the air, more like Kumble, with a very energetic run up.
someblokecalleddave;347544 said:
They were both offbreaks actually according to atherton on sky, and i agree. The first went straight , the second that got chanderpaul, hit some rough/footholds and spun/deviated. That is why they looked the same. The arm ball should not have the revs like an offbreak. It has a small element of backspin as opposed to side+topspin, and might swing slightly in the air. You see many commentators getting it wrong, especially when leg spin is involved.In the Ipl when Kumble took 5 for 5, they saw a flipper that actually was a small leak break that did not turn(possibly a slider like warne's, but definetely not a flipper). Boycott today on bbc radio was saying that aussies had a Mcbryce something that was carted along the park in S Africa. His job is cricket and does not even know he is bryce mcgain, so I would not always go on what commentators say. So, Swann's deliveries where both offbreaks and they reacted differently due to natural variation, which according to warne is the biggest variation. He states that sometimes he would bowl a big leg break and that for some reason would go straight on. If it fooled warnie, it would be guaranteed to fool the batsman.
Also today Afridi (pakistani leg spinner/bighitter), took 3 wickets for about 18 off 4 overs in a 20/20 game. The aussies did not have much of a clue against him. He is faster than warnie through the air, more like Kumble, with a very energetic run up.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I think Warne had the flipper before the backspinner as shown in the jenner video. Bob Simpson showed him how to bowl it, and Simpson called it Philpotts backspinning topspinner. Philpott says Benaud bowled this delivery very often sometimes up to half his deliveries! and it was a better ball than Benauds flipper.
Grimmett describes the other sliders as simply applying some backspin with your fingers as you release the ball like a seamer but disguising it as a legbreak. Slider comes from baseball and describes how the ball seems to run down at the batsman like on a slippery dip I think.
I think Warne had the flipper before the backspinner as shown in the jenner video. Bob Simpson showed him how to bowl it, and Simpson called it Philpotts backspinning topspinner. Philpott says Benaud bowled this delivery very often sometimes up to half his deliveries! and it was a better ball than Benauds flipper.
Grimmett describes the other sliders as simply applying some backspin with your fingers as you release the ball like a seamer but disguising it as a legbreak. Slider comes from baseball and describes how the ball seems to run down at the batsman like on a slippery dip I think.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I know what you mean but " stiffly cocked" is the exact phrase Benaud warns against doing in his short tretise on legspin. Perhaps as cocked as you can get it before it becomes too stiff would be a better way to look at it.
I dont want to sound pedantic, Ripping Leg Break, but "stiffly" might become too stiff and then your spin and your body can suffer. But I do know what you mean, a big wrist flick is vital.
Ripping-LegBreak;347545 said:
I know what you mean but " stiffly cocked" is the exact phrase Benaud warns against doing in his short tretise on legspin. Perhaps as cocked as you can get it before it becomes too stiff would be a better way to look at it.
I dont want to sound pedantic, Ripping Leg Break, but "stiffly" might become too stiff and then your spin and your body can suffer. But I do know what you mean, a big wrist flick is vital.
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