WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

[Silly Mid]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

The competition HAS to move away from two piece balls, been behind the rest of victorian competitions for years. Besides being used on the world stage four piece balls are used by Premier cricketers, subbies and many other local comps also on the astro turf!
Time to wake up! and move away from junior cricket balls. Price shouldnt be an issue as the four piece will last alot longer especially as a training ball.

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

The competition HAS to move away from two piece balls, been behind the rest of victorian competitions for years. Besides being used on the world stage four piece balls are used by Premier cricketers, subbies and many other local comps also on the astro turf!
Time to wake up! and move away from junior cricket balls. Price shouldnt be an issue as the four piece will last alot longer especially as a training ball.

Are you suggesting all senior grades use 4 piece balls?
For our club - Bundoora - i calculated the extra costs compared to the balls we used this year for matches & training.
For use in top 3 grades A,B,C & under 16-1 only -Platypus 4 pc was approx $1000 more per season - the Kookaburra was over $3000 difference per season.
If you suggest using for all grades ( we have 6) then this effectively doubles to maybe $6000 extra per season.

Now some clubs might say who cares, some clubs might fold ???

Time some people on this website realised who we are.
We are substandard paddock cricketers playing a relatively low grade of cricket.
Does it really matter what balls we use? You will still be the same batsmen facing the same bowlers.

Local hard wicket cricket - including DVCA and most local comps - have used 2 piece balls for 120 years - why the sudden urge to believe we are any better than the players in the past and want to use the big boys balls...? I really don't get it.

It is not going to attract better players to the comp. It is not suddenly going to make batsmen to make another 200 runs per season, or bowlers to take 20 less wickets.

I am not against making changes to the comp to make things better but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

However not wanting to be one of the clubs to hold back 'progress' - I am willing to go along with the flow. People better than me might know more about the science of the balls (I have only played local cricket for 30 years). If it goes to vote, we will support change to A,B,C grades (all 80 over matches) & under 16-1 changing. As for all seniors - no. As for the ball brand, dont really care except for cost to the club.

 

[five80]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

I couldn't disagree more. A 4 piece ball will ensure more runs are scored. Anyone can take wickets with a 2 piece ball. A 4 piece ball will make bowlers earn their wickets.

 

[Silly Mid]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Are you suggesting all senior grades use 4 piece balls?
For our club - Bundoora - i calculated the extra costs compared to the balls we used this year for matches & training.
For use in top 3 grades A,B,C & under 16-1 only -Platypus 4 pc was approx $1000 more per season - the Kookaburra was over $3000 difference per season.
If you suggest using for all grades ( we have 6) then this effectively doubles to maybe $6000 extra per season.

Now some clubs might say who cares, some clubs might fold ???

Time some people on this website realised who we are.
We are substandard paddock cricketers playing a relatively low grade of cricket.
Does it really matter what balls we use? You will still be the same batsmen facing the same bowlers.

Local hard wicket cricket - including DVCA and most local comps - have used 2 piece balls for 120 years - why the sudden urge to believe we are any better than the players in the past and want to use the big boys balls...? I really don't get it.

It is not going to attract better players to the comp. It is not suddenly going to make batsmen to make another 200 runs per season, or bowlers to take 20 less wickets.

I am not against making changes to the comp to make things better but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

However not wanting to be one of the clubs to hold back 'progress' - I am willing to go along with the flow. People better than me might know more about the science of the balls (I have only played local cricket for 30 years). If it goes to vote, we will support change to A,B,C grades (all 80 over matches) & under 16-1 changing. As for all seniors - no. As for the ball brand, dont really care except for cost to the club.

Not suggesting all senior grades use four piece balls, Maybe Barclay, Money and A grade... plus maybe u/14 1's and u/16 1s. (all pathway squads for junior rep cricket use 4 piece)

I would like to compare runs Vs. wickets at seasons end if the four piece ball gets up. People may get a rude awakening to how much less a four piece ball will move through the air..... this will see the end of mediocre medium pace bowlers hooping the ball, and see the top bowlers of the competition rise again. (deservedly so!)

Will be alot more runs scored!

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Not suggesting all senior grades use four piece balls, Maybe Barclay, Money and A grade... plus maybe u/14 1's and u/16 1s. (all pathway squads for junior rep cricket use 4 piece)

I would like to compare runs Vs. wickets at seasons end if the four piece ball gets up. People may get a rude awakening to how much less a four piece ball will move through the air..... this will see the end of mediocre medium pace bowlers hooping the ball, and see the top bowlers of the competition rise again. (deservedly so!)

Will be alot more runs scored!

Yes will be very interesting to see the stats at seasons end.

My money is on the fact that not much will change. The good bowlers will still get the wickets.
How many top level DVCA cricketers - Barclay shield - really bend the ball around anyway?

What gets most bats out in any grade of cricket in the DVCA is generally the lack of patience by the batsman.
Coupled with the bouncy wickets then I do not see much changing.

Time will tell.

 

[TGAT]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Has anyone considered the 4 piece ball proposals?

Assuming from the amount of talk this will get up this year.

Has anyone considered which ball and the costs associated with? Talk is that this will come in for all 80 over grade cricket and the top under 16's.

From our club's perspective - changing to the Platypus 4 peice for the above teams would add about $1000 costs per year (incl training balls).
A wholesale change across to Kookaburra & its 4 piece would cost over $3000+.

FYI current 2 pc Platypus $25.50, proposed 4 pc Platypus $35.00, Kookabuura 4 pc $49.50, Kooka 2pc $34.00

I think we need to do this in 2 stages. Firstly to Platypus 4pc, then maybe to Kooka in seasons to come.

Have you factored into these costs that the DVCA get a bulk discount for the Platypus balls and you are comparing that price with the full retail price of a Kookaburra ball? You are not really comparing apples with apples. If the DVCA decide to move to Kookaburra balls, I am certain there would be a bulk discount available that could significantly reduce the overall costs

 

[TGAT]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Has anyone considered the 4 piece ball proposals?

Assuming from the amount of talk this will get up this year.

Has anyone considered which ball and the costs associated with? Talk is that this will come in for all 80 over grade cricket and the top under 16's.

From our club's perspective - changing to the Platypus 4 peice for the above teams would add about $1000 costs per year (incl training balls).
A wholesale change across to Kookaburra & its 4 piece would cost over $3000+.

FYI current 2 pc Platypus $25.50, proposed 4 pc Platypus $35.00, Kookabuura 4 pc $49.50, Kooka 2pc $34.00

I think we need to do this in 2 stages. Firstly to Platypus 4pc, then maybe to Kooka in seasons to come.

Have you factored into these costs that the DVCA get a bulk discount for the Platypus balls and you are comparing that price with the full retail price of a Kookaburra ball? You are not really comparing apples with apples. If the DVCA decide to move to Kookaburra balls, I am certain there would be a bulk discount available that could significantly reduce the overall costs

 

[Andrew Strauss]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

bout bloody time the dvca went to 4 piece balls its been a bowlers game in your comp for far 2 long a big challenge lies ahead for all bowlers in the dvca this season!

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Have you factored into these costs that the DVCA get a bulk discount for the Platypus balls and you are comparing that price with the full retail price of a Kookaburra ball? You are not really comparing apples with apples. If the DVCA decide to move to Kookaburra balls, I am certain there would be a bulk discount available that could significantly reduce the overall costs

These were the prices as supplied by DVCA to the clubs recently to help make the decision.
Whether or not there is a discount from this is unknown but unlikley. Even so is only likely to be a few $ - not significant.

From our club's point of view, it is an expense that although not overly desired, is managable. Some of the smaller clubs might not manage this extra burden so well???

 

[TGAT]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

These were the prices as supplied by DVCA to the clubs recently to help make the decision.
Whether or not there is a discount from this is unknown but unlikley. Even so is only likely to be a few $ - not significant.

From our club's point of view, it is an expense that although not overly desired, is managable. Some of the smaller clubs might not manage this extra burden so well???

Fair enough on the pricing aspect.
I don't advocate 4 pice balls at all levels. I think that 4 piece balls should be used in the top 4 grades: Barclay Shield, Money Shield, A Grade and B Grade. 2 piece balls should remain in the lower grades. The balls must change though. The Platypus balls are substandard and must be replaced by the vastly superior Kookaburra balls. The DVCA should be a Premier Competition and strive to improve in all areas. Our grounds are being improved, we play finals on the best grounds available regardless of home ground advantage. Pitches are being replaced at a lot of grounds to ensure the playing surfaces are the best that they can be. We are looking to increase the umpires wages to attract a better standard of umpiring. Why would we not use the best balls available as well? It just makes sense to me.
If the increase in the ball prices is going to take clubs to the wire, then it is down to the clubs to look at ways to improve their revenue streams throughout the season. Something as simple as a weekly meat tray raffle can generate thousands of extra dollars per season. It may be old fashioned but it is highly effective. Find a butcher as a sponsor or just buy a $40 meat tray, you will generate $50 to $100 per week in additional income and more than pay for the increase in the ball prices.
A competition such as the DVCA should always be looking at ways to improve the competition and that means that clubs should be looking to improve their own positions as well. A small cost increase in an area should not be a major obstacle in improving the competition as a whole.
Just my opinion. I am a commitee member at my club and we all work tirelessly to ensure that we have the best facilities, best equipment and the best environment so that we can be a successful club. If we have to go and find more money as a result of moving to better equipment such as Kookaburra balls, then so be it. If it provides a better standard of cricket, then surely the advantages outweigh the costs incurred?

 

[CowCorner]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

The un-trusting little bloke inside of me I actually went to Kookaburra, expecting to be told that if approached and went bulk we would get a great deal.

Well **** me, that did not happen, I was actually told that the price of the Kookaburra ball quoted was more than reasonable. He said is was a great price if you actually wanted that ball. Absolutely floored me. He big problem was that the ball DVCA mentioned is a very below standard ball, no comp actually uses it, they pay for a better ball but that is well of $50 a ball, BUT is what they recommend we use (NOT The cheap easy to get the vote through option)

Other than hearing 'experts' we actually should trial what we want, get stakeholder in and do this properly.

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

The un-trusting little bloke inside of me I actually went to Kookaburra, expecting to be told that if approached and went bulk we would get a great deal.

Well **** me, that did not happen, I was actually told that the price of the Kookaburra ball quoted was more than reasonable. He said is was a great price if you actually wanted that ball. Absolutely floored me. He big problem was that the ball DVCA mentioned is a very below standard ball, no comp actually uses it, they pay for a better ball but that is well of $50 a ball, BUT is what they recommend we use (NOT The cheap easy to get the vote through option)

Other than hearing 'experts' we actually should trial what we want, get stakeholder in and do this properly.

Here are the ball costs as provided by DVCA recently. ("preferred" options in red.)
Cricket Balls --- Grade Suitable for: --- Cost per Ball
Kookaburra Regulation 4 Piece --- Barclay/Money--- $59.00
Kookaburra Club Match 4 Piece --- Barclay/Money --- $49.50
Platypus Special Turf 4 Piece --- Barclay/Money --- $45.00
Platypus 4 Piece Match --- Barclay/Money --- $35.00
Kookaburra Senator 4 Piece --- C Grade & Below --- $38.50
* * *
Kookaburra Tuf Pitch 2 Piece --- C Grade & Below --- $34.00
Platypus Googly Longlife --- C Grade & Below --- $25.50
Kookaburra Special Test 2 Piece 156/142gm --- Juniors --- $33.50
Kookaburra Red King 2 Piece 156/142gm --- Juniors --- $27.50
Platypus Club Special 2 piece 156/142gm --- Juniors --- $19.00

 

[CowCorner]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Here are the ball costs as provided by DVCA recently. ("preferred" options in red.)
Cricket Balls --- Grade Suitable for: --- Cost per Ball
Kookaburra Regulation 4 Piece --- Barclay/Money--- $59.00
Kookaburra Club Match 4 Piece --- Barclay/Money --- $49.50
Platypus Special Turf 4 Piece --- Barclay/Money --- $45.00
Platypus 4 Piece Match --- Barclay/Money --- $35.00
Kookaburra Senator 4 Piece --- C Grade & Below --- $38.50
* * *
Kookaburra Tuf Pitch 2 Piece --- C Grade & Below --- $34.00
Platypus Googly Longlife --- C Grade & Below --- $25.50
Kookaburra Special Test 2 Piece 156/142gm --- Juniors --- $33.50
Kookaburra Red King 2 Piece 156/142gm --- Juniors --- $27.50
Platypus Club Special 2 piece 156/142gm --- Juniors --- $19.00

Pretty much backs me up thanks PREZ, from what I have been told, if we are to do it do it properly and get the $59, good one.

 

[Reggie Duff]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Pretty much backs me up thanks PREZ, from what I have been told, if we are to do it do it properly and get the $59, good one.

Is the inferior quality of the Platypus ball just a perception based on price, or is there some evidence? The VTCA use the Platypus Match 4 piece ball exclusively don't they?

 

[captain cuzz]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Can someone clarify something for me...

Will the premier of the new A Grade (old BR) be promoted to Money Shield in replace of the side that finishes last in Money Shield?

I was speaking to a mate of mine yesterday who was under the impression that the only side that could be promoted from A grade to Money Shield was Whittlesea or any other side that gets relegated in their place in coming seasons. So in effect, there was no promotion and relegation for BS and MS sides, outside of BS and MS unless Whittlesea or another MS side wins the A Grade flag.

I thought it was promotion and relegation throughout all the grades, until your second XI got to the grade below your first XI. (if you win the flag, you don't go up to the same grade as your first XI). IE - In a perfect world you'd have your firsts playing BS, seconds playing MS, 3rds playing A Grade, etc, etc.

Can someone shed some light on this for me..?

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Can someone clarify something for me...

Will the premier of the new A Grade (old BR) be promoted to Money Shield in replace of the side that finishes last in Money Shield?

I was speaking to a mate of mine yesterday who was under the impression that the only side that could be promoted from A grade to Money Shield was Whittlesea or any other side that gets relegated in their place in coming seasons. So in effect, there was no promotion and relegation for BS and MS sides, outside of BS and MS unless Whittlesea or another MS side wins the A Grade flag.

I thought it was promotion and relegation throughout all the grades, until your second XI got to the grade below your first XI. (if you win the flag, you don't go up to the same grade as your first XI). IE - In a perfect world you'd have your firsts playing BS, seconds playing MS, 3rds playing A Grade, etc, etc.

Can someone shed some light on this for me..?

From the DVCA notification on 03/06.

" There will be promotion/relegation available across all grades and
each of the top 8 grades will be limited to 12 teams. G & H Grades may
have to be a little flexible to cope with the demand of team entries...."

Have not heard of any other restrictions as to the top 2 grades. ALL grades I would assume means all grades?

Previously with the old structure - teams with their top team in C grade could nominate for Money Shield if they won the C grade Flag. I beleive this has all changed now.

 

[stacksonthemill]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

I would assume it would be the same process as every other comp with promotion and relegation.

If we are talking two sides going up:

* The winner and runners-up shall gain promotion to the higher grade (except in the highest grade).
* The bottom two sides are relegated to the next lowest grade (except in the lowest grade).

* Should a club who is eligible for promotion have a team in the next highest grade, then that club will not be offered promotion and only one club will be offered promotion.
* If both clubs have a team in the next highest grade, then there will be no promotion or relegation between the grades.

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

I would assume it would be the same process as every other comp with promotion and relegation.

If we are talking two sides going up:

* The winner and runners-up shall gain promotion to the higher grade (except in the highest grade).
* The bottom two sides are relegated to the next lowest grade (except in the lowest grade).

* Should a club who is eligible for promotion have a team in the next highest grade, then that club will not be offered promotion and only one club will be offered promotion.
* If both clubs have a team in the next highest grade, then there will be no promotion or relegation between the grades.

Only 1 up / 1 down I beleive.
Same scenarios as you discussed otherwise.

 

[stacksonthemill]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Then it is a quite simple scenario to folllow. Makes perfect commonsense, rewarding good performance and is a logical way of trying to even out the competition.

 

[THE ICEMAN]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

So go Lower Eltham (BR Premiers) move up to Money, South Morang (MR Premiers) move up to A Grade, Bundoora (C Premiers) move to B Grade and so on. Do the wooden spooners get relagated. Do Camreas, 2nds move into A Grade as they would have or do they stay put in B Grade. Do NEW 2nds get go to B Grade or stay in A Grade???????????