Leg Spin

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Re: Leg Spin

Ah, also... (sorry for the doublepost, but this question would have got lost in my rambling in the other one!) could someone explain to me the difference between flight and loop?
I can bowl ridiculously full-flighted balls (we're talking in excess of 10-15ft in the air at the top of the arc here), but I'm wondering if this is the same thing as being 'loopy'? I had always assumed they were similar, but reading this, I am starting to doubt my assumption! :p
 
Re: Leg Spin

"flight" is the amount of time the ball spends above the eyeline of the batsman
"loop" is more a measure of trajectory.
Warne's bowling has alot of flight but is not particularly loopy. this is because of the incredible amount of dip the ball gets when he bowls because of the strength of his fingers and the speed he bowls at.
well flighted bowling can be loopy but doesnt have to be.
loopy also implies that the ball starts with an upward trajectory.


also on the googly, i think wont bother with it because trying to bowl the finger flicky thing messes with my action and i just bowl sliders afterwards. good idea though, sure that if u mastered it it would be lethal. dont think its actually a googly, more like a flipper gone wrong lol.
apparently Clarie Grimmett's flippers used to cut in
 
Re: Leg Spin

sorry for the triple post, but nightvision, i didnt mean like wildly rushing down the pitch and trying for a six or four, more like getting to the pitch of the ball and nullifying the spin, much more difficult than an out and out slog where they lose balance and cannot retreat quickly enough
 
Re: Leg Spin

Hello Moby, you sound like a bloke with a lot of experience - welcome to the Leg Spin thread. My flipper.....

"also, ive heard someguycalleddave talking about his flipper turning... arnt they supposed to be backspinners? bowled from a roundish arm action so they skid?"

Let's get some stuff established - You're no doubt far more experienced than I am - I'm new to this lark, but just got bags of enthusiasm for it and I don't watch the tele hence the appearance on here may suggest I'm the resident expert (I'm not).

I'm currently reading Peter Philpotts "The art of Wrist Spin Bowling" so I'm kind of excited about what he says in this book because so far it more or less mirrors my attitude, experience and enthusiasm, so you'll find me quoting him quite a bit and that's where I start in a roundabout way.

My Flipper........

Like Philpott says each individual finds their own way of bowling these variations and mine unlike your description is more like Richie Benauds which was fairly vertical "Creating an in-sliding skidder - a nasty delivery" of a flipper whereas the bloke credited with inventing it Clarrie Grimmett had a very low round arm action.

For some reason on a range of surfaces at different speeds my flipper turns to leg like a leg break does but without the bounce? Admittedly it's not something I was able to re-create in match conditions for some reason last year but on all sorts of surface from wet grass to concrete it does happen. I'm hoping at the start of the new season I may get it to turn in a bit whilst the wickets are damp?

Basically I'm finding the more I look into Wrist Spin bowling the more magical and steeped in variety it is.

Finally yes mine backspins massively almost stopping and not reaching the stumps if they're a bit slow and loopy!
 
Re: Leg Spin

Moby - It sounds like you've got the book as you mention Grimmett in a later post and the fact that his flipper skids and deviates?

With your Googly yeah I'd be wary because I'm having to learn the Leg Break all over again because I became obsessed with being able to bowl the Googly and in the process lost the Leg Break completely. But it is a nice ball and it's the ball I've taken wickets with when facing decent batsmen.
 
Re: Leg Spin

cheers mate, where did u get the philpott book, i havnt got it but my coach has and highly recommends i get it. he "educated" me about the history of this horrible art which is devilishly feindish and difficult.
benaud's flipper used to cut in didnt it... i know a great bowler who has a variation he calls the "fligooter" a mixture of a googly, flipper and zooter, the funny thing is that that bal has only everbeen bowled once without being given a wide, but it took a beast wicket! bit like Warnie vs Alec stewart with his flipper.

btw, how are ur leggies coming along??? i would reccommend adding a little topspin to them as this aids dip and allows the ball to bite more of the surface, just make sure u spin it uber hard and it willl come after a while. have you got any tips for a googly... im gradually getting more and more interested!
also just thought, ur flipper sounds kinda like a doosra!!
any thoughts on that???
 
Re: Leg Spin

also one more question..
Run ups... opinions??
mine is real slow and i approach from a medium to wide angle. this helps with spin i think, but all the power in the action has to come from my pivot which can get very tiring after a while.
are continental style run ups effective?? ( ala kumble and kaneria)
 
Re: Leg Spin

Moby, you're best reading through all of this thread. I know 37 pages looks a lot, but honestly, the advice you'll read is amazing. Some possibly wont be relevant but your problem will be answered better if you read through and then ask questions.

As for bowling with a run up, if i want to make it move off the ground a little quicker, little more skid etc. i tend to just etch my run up slightly straighter and quicken up, not much, just enough to get the effect.

To bowl normally my action is similar to Warnes, when approaching, but i have not jump, which is a weakness i must admit. The slower you reach the crease, the more control you'll have, its simple, but the quicker you make it, the less time the batsmen has to think. Its all about improving!
 
Re: Leg Spin

I think with regards to run-up, it's down to whatever you're comfortable with. I have a more or less dead straight five-step walk up, and I find it great - it's such a natural run-up that after about an hour of practicing, you can see exactly where each step I take is in the ground, and it's such a comfortable movement that I can concentrate entirely on what I'm doing with my arm, wrist and followthrough. Which brings up a good question:

How much of a followthrough do you guys have? I don't really have much of one, which I've identified as a problem, as it means I'm not bringing as much of my weight through as I'd like to, which is probably taking a good 5-10mph off the speed of my delivery. I'm bringing my front arm down and through, but I just don't seem to be following through the other side of the crease. Does/did anyone else do this, or am I just a lazy bowler? :p
 
Re: Leg Spin

Moby,

1. The book, last time I looked there was a whole heap of them on amazon.co.uk starting from about £7 with P+P extra.

2. Yeah my weird delivery the "Glipper/Gipper" threatens to be like your mates fligooter, I've not been able to practice as much as I'd like recently because of the fact that I do have a real life happening alongside cricket and as a consequence, the little bits of practice I have been able to do has all been rushed and each time it looks as though I'm losing the Gipper! Hopefully it'll come back with some practice?

3. Again because of other life committments I've not been able to practice but hopefully over this weekend and I'll let you all know how I get on. Hopefully on Sunday I might get a proper practice in for a couple of hours?
 
Re: Leg Spin

Small observation from me. Leg spinners at club level tend to be too slow and it is due to either not having a run up (something which is not a necessity) and not having a strong enough body action at the crease. Someone like Shane Warne has a very high intensity release and puts the whole body through the ball - this is something I rarely see replicated at club level.
 
Re: Leg Spin

I agree with that - it's an observation my captain made about my bowling a couple weeks back in the nets. My follow through is rubbish and it's something I've got to work on and have been. At the moment with trying to re-learn the leg break it's something I'm acutely aware of because I seem to concentrate on the wrist flick and fingers trying to get the right but it's at the expense of the run up. Basically I almost stop.

Something else to think about!
 
Re: Leg Spin

Having now made contributions to this thread over a period of months we're getting to the point where we need to rotate some of the key points that we're all agreeing on. Here's some of the points that seem to be re-occuring. If anyone has any additional basic points let's have em and add them on and maybe we'll do this every month or so with the new points? We may end up with a monthly resource that will be really useful to people just starting out?

1. If you're starting out with Leg Spin concentrate on being able to bowl the Leg Break. Don't worry about all the variations, just make sure that you're able to bowl this delivery and that it's your main weapon against the batsman.

2. Familiarise yourself with the videos that are available on-line via youtube - there's one with Shane Warne himself at the Wacca and 2 with Terry Jenner one from the BBC and the other is part of the Cloverdale video series. All of these videos are helpful.

3. If you can learn with a coach - it's gotta be the best way surely?

4. Leg Spin/Wrist spin is acknowledged as being potentially the most difficult form of bowling so be prepared to put some hours in getting it right - be prepared for the long haul.

5. Practice, practice and more practice.

6. Look after your shoulder - check out the threads relating to shoulder exercises to prevent injury.

7. At the earliest point borrow, steal or buy Peter Philpotts book - "The Art of Wrist Spin". Read it and follow the instructions!
 
Re: Leg Spin

Dave I think I'll post this here rather than in the batting forum because well I don't know why but I just want to see it from a spinner's perspective.

At the nets, I face this u12 bowler because I used to be mates with his brother and this kid loves bowling to me. He is a great spinner and has heaps of potential, has a great cricket mind and can spin the ball a mile. But the thing is, when I has him he's sooo slow and I end up having to go back to ball I'd usually go forward to because I have to wait so long, and I suck at going down the pitch. I guess I'll use it as practice to go down the pitch, but in games I won't be so experimental, and this season I faced a few really slow spinners and struggled.

So how do good batsman conquer your loopier balls (if you bowl any) and what goes wrong for the batsman that go out to them? Thanks.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Jonesy all the people I've bowled against that have realised that I bowl a lot of slower balls usually adopt a the tactic of waiting to see where the ball lands and then step back and hit it, but it requires having good eye ball coordination and this is more a situation that occurs in practice.

If the kids got a range of deliveries and can vary the speed, you're chancing it coming down the wicket I reckon. Because of my limited experience I can only really make observations about things I've seen and I have to go back to the old bloke last September with the 7 maiden overs against 2 very competent batsmen, they played cautiously and defended every ball because this bloke was so clever and again stepping back and waiting for most part to see where the ball went. So maybe defensive and being patient if the game situation allows that?

As for getting them out because last year I was spraying the ball around all over the gaff, a nasty edge usually got them if they were coming at me, but that was more luck rather than skill, I'm hoping skill this year will play some part!? :D
 
Re: Leg Spin

Thanks Jacob.

Lol, this guy doesn't vary his speed much he just bowls slow because he is 10 or 11 and is tiny. Yeh I guess I do try to be patient but then because it is the nets I feel every shot is nothing because I can't see whether it would be a quick single or not. And in games we play 50 overs (45-50) and I usually can't afford to let them have 5 maidens like I did last season. I think I just need to get off the strike, and I'll work on that. I reckon I shouldn't value my wicket as much as I do in games and go for a shot or two because I'm capable of them.

Thanks again for the advice Elliot, I will defiantly take something out of that.
 
Re: Leg Spin

The thing is, if you have a follow through you're more likely to tweak 3-5mph more. Mine basically is a few steps, as i pretty much headbutt the floor at one point (over exaggeration) and it just allows me to get into a stable position, which is good for C&B etc.
 
Re: Leg Spin

C&B control and balance?

The thing I found with increasing my walk-in/run in speed was that I didn't get the same flight and with the increase in speed the trajectory of the ball was too predictable which then suggests that I don't get the dip at the end which is worrying?
 
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