Leg Spin

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Re: Leg Spin

Not got that far/technical yet, the dip on a basic level is affected by the spin (Magnus affect), loads of top spin if done well can make a ball that initially looks like it's going for a full toss suddenly (as you've committed yourself to put it over the boundary out of the middle of the bat) dips and lands at your feet. The reverse happens with the slider and the Flipper they hang in the air longer seemingly going in a straight line because the magnus affect has the reverse affect of dip.

I've just been looking at Baseball deliveries as well - strewth that's technical and a whole new bag of tricks looking to be explored and incorporated into cricket as far as I can make out at this early stage. This bloke Peter Philpott and his book is a must if you're really into your legspin I'm gutted I haven't seen it at an earlier point!

Going back to your point - I would imagine there is some relationship with the atmospherics - it's doing the same thing - spinning? But surely speed has some bearing on whether it veers in the air a slower ball wouldn't deviate off it's line so readily?
 
Re: Leg Spin

I'm going to end up being a Peter Philpott bore but......

Last year as a part of my learning and I think I've mentioned it on here I spent a week or so bowling with my eyes closed experimenting with the idea that what you do needs to be almost natural and smooth to the point that you do exactly the same thing time after time to the point where you no longer need to use your eyes and it worked, I could pitch the ball in a small area and hit the stumps surprisingly often. I did loads of internet searches to see if I could find anyone else that was looking at the theory and whether there was any validity in the experiment and couldn't find anything. So it felt like I was on my own with the idea. I used to talk to people about it and they'd look at me as though I was mental. I've been vindicated - Mr Philpotts recommends that you do it in order to sense that what you do is smooth and controlled - top bloke!
 
Re: Leg Spin

someblokecalleddave said:
Not got that far/technical yet, the dip on a basic level is affected by the spin (Magnus affect), loads of top spin if done well can make a ball that initially looks like it's going for a full toss suddenly (as you've committed yourself to put it over the boundary out of the middle of the bat) dips and lands at your feet. The reverse happens with the slider and the Flipper they hang in the air longer seemingly going in a straight line because the magnus affect has the reverse affect of dip.

I've just been looking at Baseball deliveries as well - strewth that's technical and a whole new bag of tricks looking to be explored and incorporated into cricket as far as I can make out at this early stage. This bloke Peter Philpott and his book is a must if you're really into your legspin I'm gutted I haven't seen it at an earlier point!

Going back to your point - I would imagine there is some relationship with the atmospherics - it's doing the same thing - spinning? But surely speed has some bearing on whether it veers in the air a slower ball wouldn't deviate off it's line so readily?
Click to expand...

I understand how the magnus effect works but in mind the type\quality etc of air around the ball also has to have an affect. I'll have to do some searching to see what I can come up with.

Also, your point about baseball is interesting as I'm sure there must be some cross over between the two sports. Well, more than just the usual throwing advice.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Yeah with the baseball I've only just started to look into it and already I'm finding some really weird grips that apparently have weird affects on the ball?
 
Re: Leg Spin

Interestingly enough, I've just started looking into baseball grips and techniques, mainly because channel 5 in the UK have started showing the US Baseball in the early hours of the morning, and I'm a chronic insomniac and devout sports addict. The main difference I've noticed is that they (the pitchers) are allowed to dig their nails into the seam of the ball to gain greater purchase on it. This is such a major part of the technique that a fingernail injury is discussed with the same gravity as you would describe a wrist injury to a batsman. Obviously this is a no-no in cricket, but there are similarities I guess, and the knuckleball (I think this is the one, not 100% sure) is virtually identical to the slower ball grip in cricket.

As for my progress, my bi-daily practice sessions down the local field are showing continuous improvement. I'm now bowling a lot flatter and faster, whilst still getting spadefuls of turn when I manage to get the ball to bite. I have the feeling I'm going to be very much a Jimmy Anderson-style 'confidence bowler' - someone who is unplayable when he gets a couple of quick wickets, but erratic and expensive when he bowls a couple of dodgy ones and gets hammered towards the horizon. One over I managed to hit the stumps (and this is turning the ball onto the stumps, not just bowling straight at them) five times from six, with the other only narrowly missing. The next over, the first ball was a bit ropey, pitching miles outside leg, and that was it, I was awful again for 4-5 balls. This would explain the dire performance at nets the other day, as I didn't start particularly well, and from there it just got worse.
I'm not normally like this, and the yips have never bothered me. I'm a goalkeeper in football and hockey, so I'm used to one-vs-one pressure, and even if this was nerves, I can't understand why I'd be getting it in a nets session with a bunch of people who I'm very comfortable around.

Dave, what's the name of the Peter Philpott book? Sounds like it might be worth a look, as I'm currently without any decent reading material, having just finished the Fletcher autobiog. (don't bother if you haven't already, by the way!)
 
Re: Leg Spin

Dont they say that it takes 10,000 hours to get to Pro Level of sports! thats alot of practise by anyones standards!

off to play the lottery now, then build my own indoor nets (but with a sliding roof and grass wicket!)
 
Re: Leg Spin

someblokecalleddave said:
This bloke Peter Philpott and his book is a must if you're really into your legspin I'm gutted I haven't seen it at an earlier point!
Click to expand...

I'm glad it's helping you Dave. Sounds like it's added an extra dimension to your approach.

I'm hoping to try a few more things out at nets on weds. I had a pretty good session last week with people trying to smack me out of the building and getting edges left, right and center. Clean bowled a couple of people as well. I love that look batsman give the bowler when they realise they've been stitched right up. Then they start to give some respect!

James
 
Re: Leg Spin

Dave, what's the name of the Peter Philpott book? Sounds like it might be worth a look, as I'm currently without any decent reading material, having just finished the Fletcher autobiog. (don't bother if you haven't already, by the way!)
[/quote]

The Books called "The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling" ISBN 1-86 126-063-6. New it's £13 but off amazon you'll pick it a lot cheaper.

Yeah I'm going to be looking at the knuckle ball a bit and experiment with it and see what happens, it may be the case that it serves no purpose whatsoever, but it did seem like even though you're holding the ball in the weirdest way possible that it went very straight and fast. Maybe with a bit of practice it might serve some purpose as a bolt out of the blue kind of ball amongst your variations - who knows? Yeah needless to say you wouldn't be able to start growing your nails long in order that you can stick them in the leather though!
 
Re: Leg Spin

I'm hoping to try a few more things out at nets on weds. I had a pretty good session last week with people trying to smack me out of the building and getting edges left, right and center. Clean bowled a couple of people as well. I love that look batsman give the bowler when they realise they've been stitched right up. Then they start to give some respect!

James
[/quote]

That's the thing that I'm looking for batsmen to do this year - come out after me, but it's a technical and psycological war this Leg Spin lark and it sounds like you've got some of the weapons James! Let's hope it converts to the field?
 
Re: Leg Spin

erm...i think my favourite saying is:
" an amatuer practices until he does it right, a pro practices until he doesnt do it wrong"
 
Re: Leg Spin

I've officially given up with leg-spin, was 'practising' in the back garden, was going for my really loopy ripper, and the ball looped abit too much and smashed the kitchen window :( We've got people looking round our house tommorow aswell lol, perfect timing from me, there's a first for everything I suppose :laugh:
 
Re: Leg Spin

Just had some great news. Was down the field practicing today, and some guy came up to me and asked if I wanted someone to bowl against. Naturally I was only too happy, and it turns out this guy is free most of the time I am, and equally mad about cricket, so now I've got a batsman who can give me some feedback as to what I'm doing right and wrong, and where's giving him trouble and where's not. Even better, he's got a mate who is apparently quite a bowler, so it looks like I've found a couple of extra players for the team as well!

As for the bowling, I'm starting to become slowly and surely more and more effective. When I first started, 4 of every 6 balls I bowled (on average) was pitching too far outside either leg or off. Now, I'd say it's the other way round. Only 2 of every 6 are wides, and I'm now able to regularly get turn. Still not good enough to be looking to bowl for the team, but hopefully if I keep improving, I'll be good enough to get a few overs in before the season's out.
Also, my trouble with the Googly continues. I just don't seem to be able to deliver the ball out of the back of my hand without it just going straight into the floor. However, I think I've managed to work out my own way of bowling it - instead of flipping my wrist over, I'm bowling it like I would a normal leg break, but flicking my wrist from left to right (I'm a righty) and pulling my two 'down' fingers down the side of the the ball (as opposed to bringing them over the top), causing it to turn back into the right hander. The plus side is that apparently (according to my guinea pig batsman) it's almost impossible to pick from the normal leg break until it actually pitches, by which time it might be too late, but the downside is that the level of turn isn't all that great - it moves back in a bit, but I have a feeling the surprise value is what is making it dangerous, rather than the turn.

How are the leg breaks going Dave?
 
Re: Leg Spin

That's genius that idea of ripping the ball the wrong way, that is straight out of the Peter Philpott book almost. The chapter I've just read he talks about the different ways people have bowled the different variations over the years (Mostly the slider) and he never says that it's wrong, he just says that different blokes just devise different ways of doing it. The only proviso seems to be as long as your basic wrist spin leg break is your stock ball more or less any other variation goes and it sounds like you've created yourself a pretty unique variation that works for you! That's excellent and as your new found mate says so many people are going to be fooled by it!

With regards a team - can't you get yourself into a Sunday 2nd or 3rd team so you can bowl your wrist spin and develop it there where the pressure isn't so intense?
 
Re: Leg Spin

Well, the team I play for has both a saturday and a sunday team, but bowling spots in both of those are hard to come by, particularly in the sunday team, as the captain is a bit set in his ways and seems reluctant to experiment. On the plus side, this year we're also entering the midweek league (15 8-ball overs a side), and the guys doing this are doing it much more for fun, so I've got my fingers crossed I'll get a few overs in that. To be honest, I'm not too worried if I don't get too many overs, as although getting slapped about is something that happens to every spinner at some point or another, I'd rather build my confidence with hours of practice and know that I'm good enough to get the sloggers out before I throw myself in at the deep end and take a huge dent to my confidence. We're a Norfolk Sunday League Division 2 side, but I think the Divisions go down as low as 5 or 6, so I'll maybe see if I can't have a run out with a division 5 side that needs a spinner.

EDIT:
I've just checked. Our Saturday team is in division three of ten, and our Sunday team division two of four. I also know for a fact that a team in Sunday division 4 said they'd be delighted to have me. The only problem is, in order to join a lower division team, I have to actually transfer to them. This is a bit of a dilemma, as the guys in the Sunday team I play for are a great bunch, and I don't particularly want to leave them. On the other hand, if I'm having to pay my match fees, I feel I should be getting more for my money than batting at number 8 at the highest and then 40 overs stood at deep square leg. I think I'll give it half the season and then make my decision.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Nightvision,

we have a midweek league called geddings, its 15 overs of 8 balls!, it wont do your confidence any good as its usually a run fest!

our club won our cup last year, and we never used a spin bowler at all!
 
Re: Leg Spin

Yeah - I only play friendlies in a Sunday 2nd, so everyone gets a go if you're up for it - I suppose being an old bloke it's nowhere near as intense and generally the other older blokes either don't want to embarrass themselves or are all unfit. I suppose if I think about it in my team there's a bunch of young uns that all bowl who are all under or around 16 and they're mostly seam bowlers with one Leg Spinner. Then there's a new bloke who bowls medium pace in his early 30's and a leg spinner who's also new again in his late 20's and then me - nearly 50!

I reckon on average we use up to 8 bowlers so we all get around 5 overs a game which is nice.

I don't know whether the 1st teams and the league sides are as easy going with their selection of bowlers - they're probably not?
 
Re: Leg Spin

hey guys, im new to this forum

ive bowled leg spin for 4 or 5 years but only seriously for like 1 and a half
i found originally that i got a lot of turn on the ball but my accuracy was dire and abysmal
so i spent a year and a half learning to make my action consistent.

my stock ball is a big ripping leg break pitched on middle and leg and spinning away. i like this ball to be bowled quite full to getmy opponents to try and drive me
i dont really go in for masses of variations, i have a decent toppy, no googly and what i would like to call a flipper, but is more like a ball that goes straight on but stays quite low without the "zip" that you would expect from a flipper.

recently however, i have found that batsmen have started to use their feet to ge to the pitch of the ball more effectively. i dont go for many runs but my wicket taking ability has been severly decreased.
any tips
 
Re: Leg Spin

Hi Mobycricket and welcome to the board!

From a non-spinners point of view I'd say that you need to work on a bit more variation in flight, pace and line. This should give you a few more tricks up your sleeves.
 
Re: Leg Spin

yeah... i mean my standard tactic against advancing batsmen has been to bowl very loopy leggies that drop shorter than expected, however its really hard to control that kind of ball. also, i dont mean charging blindly down the wicket ala Freddie, more like indian batsmen. im thinking that bowling alittle slower than my usual 35-40 and maybe a topspinner would be a good chance of getting a wicket because they drop earlier than expected and attempting to drive is very risky on a toppy since they often loop up for a caught and bowled.

on another point, is it really worth learning to bowl a googlie? they are only for surprise value and dont really kick in that much and a good batsman can read them out of the hand. however if a batsman gets overconfident, it could be a good thing to have.

also, ive heard someguycalleddave talking about his flipper turning... arnt they supposed to be backspinners? bowled from a roundish arm action so they skid?
 
Re: Leg Spin

Moby, I'm having the same trouble with the Googly - I've only been bowling Legspin a couple of weeks really, but practicing most days for a couple of hours. I just can't get the hang of flipping my wrist over the wrong way, so I've actually developed my own way of bowling it. My arm is in the normal position to bowl a leg-break, but instead of flicking my wrist right to left and rolling my 4th and pinky fingers over the ball, I flick from left to right and actually pull down with the 4th and pinky fingers. It's basically a leg-break ripped the 'wrong' way. According to the one batsman I've tried it against, it's much harder to pick, but it doesn't spin as much as the regular googly.
As for batsmen advancing down the pitch, remember that what you're losing in the chance to bowl them department, you're gaining in the stumping chances department. Like Mas cambios said, just keep doing what you're doing, but vary your flight and speed a little bit. What I like to do (as I've not really got the variations down yet) is the occasional straight and fast one, just to remind them that I can hit the stumps any time I like, and they would do well to remember it. That's the part I love about spin bowling - it's far more of a battle of wits with the batsman than any other type of bowling, and let's be honest... most batsmen aren't up to that challenge! :laugh:
 
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