West Indies in Australia

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Re: West Indies in Australia

We have to get the last 2 out first. How long did that take on Day 2?

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;379184 said:
It appears to me that Siddle took an injury into this match - possibly because he knew that Hilfenhaus will return when fit - it has now backfired.
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If he did that would be rather silly. To aggravate it and miss the next couple of Tests wouldn't be a wise move. Either way, he bowled injured today. It didn't do him much good, but credit to the bloke for answering the call. I can think of many who wouldn't.

Siddles' spot may well be in danger anyway. Mind you, it hasn't been easy for the bowlers. Bollinger has taken 4/103 - hardly storming onto the scene, and Johnson has been punished severely for his misdirection. Another concern is one we've debated in anticipation. Hauritz has bowled 278 deliveries for 2 wickets. No doubt about his ability to contain, but we were worried about his wicket-taking prowess, were we not?
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Sober Symonds;379294 said:
We have to get the last 2 out first. How long did that take on Day 2?



If he did that would be rather silly. To aggravate it and miss the next couple of Tests wouldn't be a wise move. Either way, he bowled injured today. It didn't do him much good, but credit to the bloke for answering the call. I can think of many who wouldn't.

Siddles' spot may well be in danger anyway. Mind you, it hasn't been easy for the bowlers. Bollinger has taken 4/103 - hardly storming onto the scene, and Johnson has been punished severely for his misdirection. Another concern is one we've debated in anticipation. Hauritz has bowled 278 deliveries for 2 wickets. No doubt about his ability to contain, but we were worried about his wicket-taking prowess, were we not?
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There would have to be serious consideration into playing 4 quicks at the WACA following Hauritzs inability to take any wickets on a 4th day Adelaide Oval pitch, he will be totally useless on the WACA, might even consider going back to the side that beat South Africa and bringing back Ronnie! :D
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Sober Symonds;379294 said:
We have to get the last 2 out first. How long did that take on Day 2?



If he did that would be rather silly. To aggravate it and miss the next couple of Tests wouldn't be a wise move. Either way, he bowled injured today. It didn't do him much good, but credit to the bloke for answering the call. I can think of many who wouldn't.

Siddles' spot may well be in danger anyway. Mind you, it hasn't been easy for the bowlers. Bollinger has taken 4/103 - hardly storming onto the scene, and Johnson has been punished severely for his misdirection. Another concern is one we've debated in anticipation. Hauritz has bowled 278 deliveries for 2 wickets. No doubt about his ability to contain, but we were worried about his wicket-taking prowess, were we not?
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To be fair Suliemann Benn didn't fare too much better than Hauritz but picked up five wickets because he bowled so many overs. I agree though, Hauritz's inability to take a few more wickets is a little concerning, let's not forget that his two of his five wickets in the first test were tailenders, in fact his only higher order wicket was that of Dowlin in the first innings who holed out to Watson in the deep. The rest of his wickets were positions six or lower in the order. Other than this game, Hauritz has been pretty decent so dropping him is probably a remote chance. However, with the final test at the WACA, the temptation will be there to play four quicks and the last Australian spinner to play there was Krejza who struggled and was subsequently dropped. I'd like to see Krejza back in the side but that's probably a fair way off with Hauritz's serviceable performances in the Ashes as well as the first test of this series.

With Siddle in doubt for the final game, it'd be interesting to see who would play as the 4th seamer should Hauritz be dropped. You'd have Johnson, Hilfenhaus returning from injury, Bollinger, Watson and then another pace bowler. My bet would be on McKay.

As for this game, Gayle will come out swinging tomorrow I reckon and try and add a quick 50 runs before declaring. My guess is they'll bat for about seven overs and then the changeover of innings will give them about 80 overs to bowl Australia out. I still think we can win but our limit would be 310 off about 85 overs, anything above that will be too hard I think. A great game though, I've been impressed with the rejuvenated Windies in this game and Gayle's knock has been super. My only concern is that Gayle has played a lone hand, the next best score is Chanderpaul's 27. West Indies could have shut the door on an Australian win had another batsman stayed with Gayle.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

I think some people are forgetting a little about Johnson. He had a terrible Ashes Tour and said when he got back to Australia that he was going to come back into form and really work on his bowling and get lots of wickets. So far he has 12 from the two Tests. Not too bad an effort if I say so myself, doesn't matter if you are going for 30 of each of them when you are getting so many. He has also been getting some decent swing, bounce and bowling great balls. The only thing he is doing wrong is bowling some wides or wide balls to smash, but wasn't that the Johnson of old anyway?

Australia needs a spinner and needs one at the WACA. We need to keep the same team, with exception to injuries, to ensure that they start to play to each others strengths and weaknesses and can do nothing but improve. Hauritz so far hasn't done anything wrong and I would like to see him stay with the side to ensure they have a full time spinner who can do the job. Yes Krezja could be better, McGain could have gotten a couple of very serviceable years or even Smith could become the next superstar a little earlier, but they have missed their chances with the only one being Hauritz to do enough to keep it. He is our spinner of the future for the time being and that needs to be worked on. If we are going to keep Siddle, then there is nothing against keeping a bowler with more promise than him (hahaha just had to add Siddle in here somewhere :p).

And this thing about Siddle carrying an injury is fair enough because spots are tight and if he let on that he had an injury he might have had Bollinger come in and start doing better, and with Siddle being uninspiring in the last couple of matches it wouldn't be surprising if the selectors had a quick change of heart. It was fair enough from Siddle to do that, and although it hasn't paid off and it has ruined his chances, he doesn't know any better because there are no veteran bowlers in the squad to even talk to and to tell him any better. These are the sorts of silly mistakes that happen when you have a team full of youngsters.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

As long as the quicks are leaking so many runs and Ponting is reluctant to have Clarke and Katich share the spinning load with North, Hauritz's place is relatively safe.

Despite his inability to take many wickets, all our other spin options just get tonked. Wickets for runs is an acceptable tradeoff for spinners sometimes, but not really a luxury you can afford when the rest of the bowling attack suffers from a congenital inability to keep things tight.

Also, don't forget that Adelaide is a tough ground for spinners with its flat track and short square boundaries. He may do better at the WACA.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Boris;379329 said:
And this thing about Siddle carrying an injury is fair enough because spots are tight and if he let on that he had an injury he might have had Bollinger come in and start doing better, and with Siddle being uninspiring in the last couple of matches it wouldn't be surprising if the selectors had a quick change of heart. It was fair enough from Siddle to do that, and although it hasn't paid off and it has ruined his chances, he doesn't know any better because there are no veteran bowlers in the squad to even talk to and to tell him any better. These are the sorts of silly mistakes that happen when you have a team full of youngsters.
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Its just not Boris if there are no cracks at Siddle. There are 2 main problems here:
1 you decry the youth emphasis and tell us that there are no expereinced bowlers there to inform the foolish Mr Siddle. You know you are right because you are a seasoned veteran??? I will admit I'm not but then I'm not criticising people based ontheir inexperience using my wealth of insight magiacally devined from ...:confused:
2 The selectors do not (unless you have a technique flaw you could sail the Titanic through) have quick changes of heart, just ask Hussey.:)
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Can't see Haurtiz getting dropped in the short to mid term. Most of our seamers go at 3.5 an over, Hauritz is capable of shutting down an end which allows our seamers to go to work at the other end.

Generally you can't win test matchs if the other team is scoring at 4 an over, without Hauritz I can see our attack going for a few runs very quickly.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Maybe there's some justification for having Hauritz in there, but I'm not convinced. Perhaps he's as good as we've got in all conditions. At the WACA though, I don't expect he'll have any real effect. Surely North & Clarke could fulfill his role whilst we play to other strengths. As Caesar said, Ponting has not used these guys enough ... and what about Katich? He destroys the Windies every time.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Really looking like a draw now with Australia only 3 down at tea, West Indies should have declared overnight when they are 1 - 0 down in the series.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

I haven't been listening to the commentary, only following the scores. Have I missed something? Why have we been playing for a draw from the outset? Wickets in hand, surely you'd accept the challenge.

Maybe too many looking after their own spots in the team!?!
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Sober Symonds;379397 said:
Maybe too many looking after their own spots in the team!?!
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Sadly I suspect you're right, from a batsmen's perspective. There's little glory to be had in beating a Windies team this uninspiring. OTOH there's a lot to be lost for someone like Hussey if he has a crack at raising the run-rate to win and gets himself out when their bowling attack is viewed as so subpar.

If this Test is drawn most of the blame (what little there is) will be directed at the batsmen-friendly pitch and the inability of our bowlers to take wickets quickly enough. Hussey's not going to cop it for scoring at a rate of 45 or 50 rather than 60 or 65. He will cop it if he gets out cheaply though.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Thankfully the mercy rule has applied and Mr Cricket has been put out of his misery (or us out of ours!). Perhaps he was reading BigCricket during the tea break!!!
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Hussey gone after tea.

Sober Symonds;379397 said:
I haven't been listening to the commentary, only following the scores. Have I missed something? Why have we been playing for a draw from the outset? Wickets in hand, surely you'd accept the challenge.

Maybe too many looking after their own spots in the team!?!
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It's not that easy batting out there. To win we needed a record run chase, I think about 315 is the highest 4th innings score for victory in Adelaide.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Caesar;379333 said:
As long as the quicks are leaking so many runs and Ponting is reluctant to have Clarke and Katich share the spinning load with North, Hauritz's place is relatively safe.
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I dont understand why he would be reluctant to lose 2 of his best batsmen to injury... Neither are fit enough to bowl unless its a last resort. Lets not forget Clarke has just returned from yet another back injury layoff and Katich has said in the past he pulls up sore after bowling so he can only bowl if he bats in the middle order

Sober Symonds;379397 said:
I haven't been listening to the commentary, only following the scores. Have I missed something? Why have we been playing for a draw from the outset? Wickets in hand, surely you'd accept the challenge.

Maybe too many looking after their own spots in the team!?!
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Because cricket teams these days are gutless, the Bushrangers would chase it and if they lose, so what? You dont win titles or series by playing for draws but it seems Australia think 1-0 is good enough for the series win. QLD did the same thing earlier this year, set a very gettable target on a flat Adelaide Oval and refused to chase

Never would have happened in the Australian teams under Waugh or even Tubby
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Kram81;379405 said:
Hussey gone after tea.



It's not that easy batting out there. To win we needed a record run chase, I think about 315 is the highest 4th innings score for victory in Adelaide.
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Two things from this, Hussey batted well to make only 29, he did well to make the draw happen.

And the record chase is 315 made in the 1930s sometime. Not likely to happen.

Saying that, though, is not the Aussie style. I would have liked to see them at least have a little crack. They didn't need to block from the outset. Would have liked to see them finish at about 275ish for the draw really.

Oh if you haven't noticed already, Australia enforced the draw with Gayle stopping play with 4 overs left to go. Very good game despite the result.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

Can't believe anyone who actually knows a bit about the game is actually blaming Australia for not going for the win.

Fact of the matter is, for Australia to go for the win one of the top 3 of Watson, Katich or Ponting would have had to have got a ton. Once two of those batsmen went cheaply and we were 2/60 then there was no way we should have played risky shots aiming for a bridge to far.

That pitch was very slow - sure it held up relatively well - but it was still very slow and it was a big ask therefore to score at 4 an over from the outset. If we had got to say 2 /180 at tea then we would have been in a position to get on with it. In these situations you always have to make your run late rather then early, because if you lose a bundle of wickets then you need to be able to shut it down.

Would have been interesting if there was another 35 overs, at 5/210 I reckon the Australians would have fancied there chances of chasing down 330 with Haddin and Clarke set with Johnson and Hauritz to come.
 
Re: West Indies in Australia

4 an over is quite a bit, but not ungettable even after losing some of the top order. It's a matter of opinion, hardly cut and dried. Favouring the more aggressive option doesn't mean someone is unknowledgable about the game.
 
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