Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
His parents are lying to him, he bowls legspin too well to be a pomWho said poms couldnt bowl legspin?That was really good I reckon.
macca
Active Member
Well there you go son, that might be part of your problem. You have stopped grunting. Too bad your mates payed out on it and you stopped.
boogiespinner
Active Member
Had a net practice today. Struggling.
I ended up going back to basics and bowling against the brick wall.
I ended up going back to basics and bowling against the brick wall.
boogiespinner
Active Member
This is why I would measure turn a different way, as a velocity rather than an angle.
Consider two leg-breaks both delivered straight:
Ball 1
Forwards velocity after pitching - 15m/s
pitches 2.25m in front of the batsman
deviates to the off at 1m/s
Ball 2
Forwards velocity after pitching - 20m/s
pitches 3m in front of batsman
deviates to the off at 1m/s
Both the balls have the same time to reach the batsman after pitching (.15 seconds) during which time they will both deviate 15cm to the off. As a velocity change, it is the same turn. As a change of angle, the first ball has turned a lot more - 3.81 degrees compared to the second - 2.86 degrees. Which is harder to play?
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Cleanprophet
Active Member
In general, you would rather face a slower ball that turns a lot than one that is a bit quicker that turns a bit less. There are no international legspinners who bowl slowly and with big turn. But there have been legspinners who bowl it quicker and flatter (as mentioned before, Bill O'Reilly and, more recently, Anil Kumble).
The thing to always remember is that the job of a legspinner is to take wickets, not get big spin. Sometimes you will get wickets with big spin, but quite often the two don't go together. Whatever troubles the batter and gets wickets is the way to go. Warne could bowl it 50mph-55mph with big spin and do it with control. Very few people can do that.
As I said earlier, you will find most club legspinners who are effective will bowl in a manner which is more closely related to leg cutters than actual legspin. Average seam bowlers who bowl about 65mph-70mph will generally be more effective than a 40mph-45mph legspinner who gets plenty of turn. You can't really be an average legspinner. You're either a good legspinner or a poor legspinner. This is why many club legspinners end up bowling 60mph and dragging their fingers over the ball just like a leg cutter. They simply are not good enough to bowl proper legspin or they are not mentally strong enough to stick with it and back themselves. The key thing about legspin is being able to beat the batter in the air, through drift and dip. You will only get that drift and dip with big revs. These leg cutter versions of legspinners never beat a batter through the air. They are simply looking for a combination of quicker bowling and a bit of movement off the pitch. Against very good club batters, they will be an absolutle doddle to play. Against ordinary club batters, they will be effective and pick up wickets. It's all about where you want to be as a bowler and what your long term goal is. Do you want to be playing with and against ordinary players and picking up wickets or do you want to play with and against good players and taking wickets? If it is the latter, then the only way to do that with legspin is to put a lot of hard work in and look to bowl the ball 50mph-55mph with lots of revs. If it is the former, unless you bowl 60mph leg cutters you should be prepared to have sloggers line you up and go after you.
The thing to always remember is that the job of a legspinner is to take wickets, not get big spin. Sometimes you will get wickets with big spin, but quite often the two don't go together. Whatever troubles the batter and gets wickets is the way to go. Warne could bowl it 50mph-55mph with big spin and do it with control. Very few people can do that.
As I said earlier, you will find most club legspinners who are effective will bowl in a manner which is more closely related to leg cutters than actual legspin. Average seam bowlers who bowl about 65mph-70mph will generally be more effective than a 40mph-45mph legspinner who gets plenty of turn. You can't really be an average legspinner. You're either a good legspinner or a poor legspinner. This is why many club legspinners end up bowling 60mph and dragging their fingers over the ball just like a leg cutter. They simply are not good enough to bowl proper legspin or they are not mentally strong enough to stick with it and back themselves. The key thing about legspin is being able to beat the batter in the air, through drift and dip. You will only get that drift and dip with big revs. These leg cutter versions of legspinners never beat a batter through the air. They are simply looking for a combination of quicker bowling and a bit of movement off the pitch. Against very good club batters, they will be an absolutle doddle to play. Against ordinary club batters, they will be effective and pick up wickets. It's all about where you want to be as a bowler and what your long term goal is. Do you want to be playing with and against ordinary players and picking up wickets or do you want to play with and against good players and taking wickets? If it is the latter, then the only way to do that with legspin is to put a lot of hard work in and look to bowl the ball 50mph-55mph with lots of revs. If it is the former, unless you bowl 60mph leg cutters you should be prepared to have sloggers line you up and go after you.
There are many and multiple ways to be a successful and effective spin bowler, every bowler is different and masters spin bowling in their own way. But there are three non-negotiables: you have to spin the ball hard, you have to maintain control of line and length, and you have to bowl at a decent pace.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
It's interesting to watch Moeen Ali and his offspin. He has been bowling quicker and quicker with each match. He was bowling in the 50mph-55mph bracket in county cricket and doing quite well. At Test level, he had to raise that to 55mph-60mph to get success. Not just bowl it quicker, just do everything a bit quicker. He still has to spin the ball as hard as he was before, but just do it quicker and just as accurately or more so.
It goes without saying, that doing this is harder. Moeen Ali will have had to do lots and lots of work in the nets to develop his skill enough to allow him to do that. Some bowlers (and I'd put Jadeja in this group) simply bowl it quicker at the expense of revs on the ball. They just bowl it quicker and flatter. Moeen Ali, and this is to his credit, is still putting good revs on the ball and still giving the ball decent flight.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
There's a thread for fielding placements, I guess it could easily be incorporated into that, if you've got ideas bung it in there as your plan must surely include your 'Field'?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
I've just come back from 17 days of surfing, so completely off the radar, when I went Moeen Ali was being slagged off as a joke almost, with Cooks use of him reinforcing the fact that he also appeared to think he was a bit of a joke! 17 days later and he looks like a national hero. Moeen Ali for BBC sports personality of the year and Amol Rajan needs to re-write his book soon, as so much has happened in the world of Spin Bowling in just 2 years!!!
Cleanprophet
Active Member
I saw him getting 2400 rpm. I suppose it is possible he got it up to 2780 rpm. That would be impressive if he did. But, we also have to remember how many wickets he took in that Test - none at all.
I wasn't convinced at all about using Moeen Ali as the front line spinner. But I have to give him credit. His bowling in that 2nd innings was up there with some of Swann's bowling. He was helped with some poor batting and a nice pitch to bowl spin on. He also has to do it more consistently and, most importantly, when the pressure is on and all eyes are on the spinner to spin his team to victory. But he is closer to a front line Test spinner now than a second spinner.
Well I got 3 wickets on Weds night and 4 more this weekend, and am feeling in good nick at the moment.
Always happens at this time of year, the pitches dry out and start turning, just a shame there are only 5 games left in the season.
Anyone else enjoying the drier pitches?
Always happens at this time of year, the pitches dry out and start turning, just a shame there are only 5 games left in the season.
Anyone else enjoying the drier pitches?
Cleanprophet
Active Member
No game for me this weekend. I was asked to play on the Saturday, but wasn't able to play. Today was a total washout.
Most pitches have been quite dry all season for me. Our club pro is a spinner, so we usually have dry pitches across the board, but most of the away pitches have been quite dry. Our groundsman had the covers off today when it was throwing it down. The pitch is so dry that he was quite happy to leave it uncovered and get a good soaking.
Spin Lizard
Active Member
He is/was a naturally gifted athlete, albeit slightly 'rotund'. He played football for St Kilda under 19's, which is no mean feat. If he had the same fondness for running as he did for pies and cigarettes, he might well have ended up an AFL footballer instead of a cricketer and we'd not be discussing him on this board. He used this athleticism every ball he bowled. It isn't just about his grip or his wrist, his whole body went into spinning the ball. He made involuntary grunts when bowling, such was the energy he was putting into it.
I'm not saying you aren't a gifted athlete, shahidpak (I have no way of knowing that!), but for sure that is why Warne spun it more than say, Ajantha Mendis.
Give it a rip and if that isn't enough, give it more of a rip. It's the main ingredient.
I'm not saying you aren't a gifted athlete, shahidpak (I have no way of knowing that!), but for sure that is why Warne spun it more than say, Ajantha Mendis.
Give it a rip and if that isn't enough, give it more of a rip. It's the main ingredient.
But then what does he do with his BODY to achieve this??
Spin Lizard
Active Member
hahaha a youtube of him is far better explanation than anything I could type.
In short though, spin it as hard as you can. Then spin it harder. Don't compete with Shane Warne, compete with yourself.
Go for a bowl and see how big a spin you can get. Next time, see if you can beat that. No matter your physical gifts, there is no substitute for practice. Warnie was not the best legspinner ever when he started, he worked bloody hard at it (in addition to being blessed with a lot of skill).
In short though, spin it as hard as you can. Then spin it harder. Don't compete with Shane Warne, compete with yourself.
Go for a bowl and see how big a spin you can get. Next time, see if you can beat that. No matter your physical gifts, there is no substitute for practice. Warnie was not the best legspinner ever when he started, he worked bloody hard at it (in addition to being blessed with a lot of skill).
boogiespinner
Active Member
I think it's a pretty sensible question. Extremely difficult to answer though. Just about every legspin tutorial shows the grip, then the direction the ball is to rotate, and then someone doing it. Simple? Well not at all. There's a wonderfully mystic void concerning just about everything.
It's said that Warne had very strong wrists, developed from spending a year in a wheelchair as a child. But I wonder how much strength has to do with the spin part of it. My theory is that the revs are all about technique.
How are you practising?