Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Had a game yesterday. I bowled 8 overs and didn't get a wicket. I didn't even check my numbers at the end. It felt like I probably went for about 40 or 50. The batters were playing quite aggressively. There were one or two miss hits that missed the fielders and a very simply edge that our (non)keeper missed completely. Overall, the fielding of our team was awful. Truly terrible. We're talking about fielders standing still as the bowler bowls the ball. Not walking in with the bowler and not anticipating the ball coming to them. The batters were hitting the ball to fielders and just running. I even had 2 runs taken when the ball went to fine leg (who was no more than 25-30 yards from the ball). I probably lost a good 15 runs due to that fielding. Above all else, I couldn't bowl to the same batter and work on him because they kept rotating the strike.

I also have to wonder whether it is wise to play matches whilst I'm trying to fix this problem I have with my arm position.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Had a game yesterday. I bowled 8 overs and didn't get a wicket. I didn't even check my numbers at the end. It felt like I probably went for about 40 or 50. The batters were playing quite aggressively. There were one or two miss hits that missed the fielders and a very simply edge that our (non)keeper missed completely. Overall, the fielding of our team was awful. Truly terrible. We're talking about fielders standing still as the bowler bowls the ball. Not walking in with the bowler and not anticipating the ball coming to them. The batters were hitting the ball to fielders and just running. I even had 2 runs taken when the ball went to fine leg (who was no more than 25-30 yards from the ball). I probably lost a good 15 runs due to that fielding. Above all else, I couldn't bowl to the same batter and work on him because they kept rotating the strike.

I also have to wonder whether it is wise to play matches whilst I'm trying to fix this problem I have with my arm position.
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It is very frustrating bad fielders. Is it possible for you to go up a grade or 2 where the fielding would be better?
 
Cleanprophet said:
Good blog. I'd agree with everything I read about bowling to a keeper and club batters not watching for the arm angle.

The problem with bowling to most batters in the nets is that they don't play as they would in a match. They're often much mroe aggressive and fearless as they don't have to worry about getting out and their innings being over. I've watched our club's pro spinner getting hit out of the nets many times and it seriously infuriates him. Fortunately for me, I bowl a lot to a batter who is working a lot on proper technique (ie playing straight and in the V) and bats like he does in a match. It's not all bad practice because you will come up against a LOT of sloggers in club cricket, especially when you bowl legspin. But in terms of developing your technique, if you can't bowl to a proper batter it is better to bowl to just a set of stumps or a keeper.

That arm angle is a good thing to work on. A vertical arm is good for bowling all the variations, but you won't bowl a really good legspinner with a fully vertical arm (12 o'clock, if you think about it as a clock face). Getting your arm around 1 o'clock is ideal.

You also need to make sure you don't do what I have been doing which is taking your arm back behind you. As long as the ball in your hand moves backwards on a straight line and then comes up to shoulder height (with the arm pointing towards mid-on/long-on) and then moves straight down the wicket, towards the batter (or very slightly to the off-side of the batter), then you are spot on.

That issue you mention about having much better figures a couple of years ago, when you were a fair bit shorter, is an interesting one too. I was watching a young legspinner yesterday and he was probably only about 5"2 or so. Every young, small leggie I see tends to drop the ball very short (a good few yards short of the length they need) and they also bowl it quite slow (about 35mph-40mph). As a result, the ball turns a lot and it's not that easy to hit the ball, even when you are on your backfoot and waiting for that short ball. Really, the only option is to use your feet, get to the pitch of the ball and smash it. A decent batter will do that and do it every time. But most of the batters young small leggies bowl to in club cricket don't have the courage to use their feet. As a result, these young lads tend to do very well. As soon as they come up against a decent batter, they get smashed. Also, as they get older and taller, they get the ball on a better fuller length. This just brings the sloggers into the game and they go for more runs. This is part of the process of development. What is needed at that point is more pace on the ball and more experience bowling to all types of batters. A lot of leggies either give up legspin at that point (because they can't handle going for runs when they've never gone for runs in the past) or that start darting the ball in and bowling quicker - losing the focus of what legspin is all about.
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I was only about 5ft 3 last year at 16, I am now 5ft 8, so still not tall but a lot taller then what I was. Last year I took a hat trick, all 3 wickets bowled, One around the batsmans legs and then the other two pitching middle and leg and hitting off stump, I thought I would be able to bowl even better this year, but the growth spurt has led to many adaptions.
 
James513 said:
It is very frustrating bad fielders. Is it possible for you to go up a grade or 2 where the fielding would be better?
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It is possible. I'm just playing friendly cricket at the moment. The 3rd team captain has been asked by the friendly XI captain not to select me because he needs me for his team. I wasn't too fussed about that because I was happy to play at any easy level whilst working on my action. I played for the 3rds about 3 weeks ago and got 2 for 15 from 10 overs and my bowling wasn't special at all. I bowled within myself and the batters played me very conservatively. In friendly cricket, batters have very little concern about getting out. At least in competitive cricket you do have a batting average to work on and there is a value to your wicket. On top of that, the fielding is far better. Just that small step from friendly cricket to 3rd team cricket showed a significant difference in fielding.

I'm quite confident that I could play for the 2nds as well (they have asked me once or twice), but they play on a Saturday (which is tricky for me) and there's a bit of a clique in that whole team.
 
TomBowler97 said:
I was only about 5ft 3 last year at 16, I am now 5ft 8, so still not tall but a lot taller then what I was. Last year I took a hat trick, all 3 wickets bowled, One around the batsmans legs and then the other two pitching middle and leg and hitting off stump, I thought I would be able to bowl even better this year, but the growth spurt has led to many adaptions.
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I suppose most other bowling types are much easier to bowl right through growth spurts. It is the toughest thing you can do in cricket, no doubt about that.
 
I've just been down to the nets and tried something to help with my bowling problems. I used a post at the end of the netting by standing in front of it and having it in a position that ensured that if my arm move backwards directly behind me, it would hit the post. Therefore, I could only deliver the ball with my arm moving backwards towards mid-on and then into the delivery position. It worked a treat. Every ball produced the perfect wrist position and legspin.

As soon as I moved away from the post, that arm moved back straight behind me and then moved toward the legstump line as I delivered the ball. The best I could manage was something that was about 70% topspin and 30% sidespin. I'll just have to keep working until my arm moves back on that mid-on line naturally.
 
TomBowler97 said:
I was only about 5ft 3 last year at 16, I am now 5ft 8, so still not tall but a lot taller then what I was. Last year I took a hat trick, all 3 wickets bowled, One around the batsmans legs and then the other two pitching middle and leg and hitting off stump, I thought I would be able to bowl even better this year, but the growth spurt has led to many adaptions.
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Are you feeling the ball is not coming out of the hand in the same way?
 
Rainy net session today. Been doing standing start from about 17 yards, throwing and bowling.

I'm making progress. Sending down nicer stuff than ever really. Spinning well and I hope a bit closer to 40mph. But problems I'm having are

1) it takes me about 40 deliveries to get into the groove. In a game situation I'm not going to get that
2) I'm not practising much off a run up
3) still hitting the side netting occasionally

I've been doing a few regular sessions so hopefully it is a gradual improvement going on.
 
boogiespinner said:
Rainy net session today. Been doing standing start from about 17 yards, throwing and bowling.

I'm making progress. Sending down nicer stuff than ever really. Spinning well and I hope a bit closer to 40mph. But problems I'm having are

1) it takes me about 40 deliveries to get into the groove. In a game situation I'm not going to get that
2) I'm not practising much off a run up
3) still hitting the side netting occasionally

I've been doing a few regular sessions so hopefully it is a gradual improvement going on.
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I'd stick with the standing start until you are bowling it well from the off and bowling mostly good stuff.

As you know, I've been having issues with my bowling arm and so have also been bowling off a standing start. It can be tricky actually, in terms of balance and consistency. But I've also been using the standing start to work on getting my front leg more across my body and towards the line of the stumps (that's not something I'm able to do with a run up). I've found I can do a couple of things other than a run up or a standing start which you could possibly try.

One thing is to to stand with both feet together and then move the front foot into position and deliver the ball. It's not a run up but you have more momentum going into the delivery. The next stage is to walk into a delivery rather than step into it. After that, of course, it is the run up.
 
Cleanprophet said:
One thing is to to stand with both feet together and then move the front foot into position and deliver the ball. It's not a run up but you have more momentum going into the delivery. The next stage is to walk into a delivery rather than step into it. After that, of course, it is the run up.
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I've been doing one step as the default. Haven't tried walking in though yet. Good suggestion.

Had a net practice with the team today. I bowled a nice seam up delivery today where I just thought, I'm going to completely relax and let the ball pretty much bowl itself. And that's just what happened - I think it was the fastest I've ever bowled, pitched on a good length and bowled a rather bemused batsman :) I think whatever I did there technically was translated from the standing start practice.
 
boogiespinner said:
I've been doing one step as the default. Haven't tried walking in though yet. Good suggestion.

Had a net practice with the team today. I bowled a nice seam up delivery today where I just thought, I'm going to completely relax and let the ball pretty much bowl itself. And that's just what happened - I think it was the fastest I've ever bowled, pitched on a good length and bowled a rather bemused batsman :) I think whatever I did there technically was translated from the standing start practice.
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There's a lot to be said for bowling relaxed. In terms of fast bowling, all quick bowlers will tell you that they bowl their quickest when they're relaxed and just bowling. I remember Stuart Broad talking about it after a spell of consistent 90mph and he said the less he thinks about bowling quick, the more likely he is to bowl quick. I think it's all about keeping that wrist nice and relaxed so that you get a nice whip out of it. The more concerned you are about your legspin, the less likely you are to be relaxed and that wrist will not do what it should do.

The one step start is a good drill. You have the standing start (which always feels the most uncomfortable to me), the step start, the walking start and then the full run up. Yesterday, I did plenty of walking starts and it felt very comfortable. I want to get my front leg right across my body and towards the line of the stumps so that my momentum is moving into the line of the stumps. With the normal run up, I can't get it right. But the walking start is perfect for it. I'm probably going to do a walking start for all my bowling now until I get that position at the crease spot on (even in matches). I'm able to generate a good 90% of what I can when jumping into the crease, so I happy enough to walk in and not jump until I get that front foot across without thinking about it.
 
Cleanprophet said:
There's a lot to be said for bowling relaxed. In terms of fast bowling, all quick bowlers will tell you that they bowl their quickest when they're relaxed and just bowling. I remember Stuart Broad talking about it after a spell of consistent 90mph and he said the less he thinks about bowling quick, the more likely he is to bowl quick. I think it's all about keeping that wrist nice and relaxed so that you get a nice whip out of it. The more concerned you are about your legspin, the less likely you are to be relaxed and that wrist will not do what it should do.

The one step start is a good drill. You have the standing start (which always feels the most uncomfortable to me), the step start, the walking start and then the full run up. Yesterday, I did plenty of walking starts and it felt very comfortable. I want to get my front leg right across my body and towards the line of the stumps so that my momentum is moving into the line of the stumps. With the normal run up, I can't get it right. But the walking start is perfect for it. I'm probably going to do a walking start for all my bowling now until I get that position at the crease spot on (even in matches). I'm able to generate a good 90% of what I can when jumping into the crease, so I happy enough to walk in and not jump until I get that front foot across without thinking about it.
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I have adjusted my run up now, as in my opinion and probably many peoples opinion is that the reason for a bad ball is something that has gone wrong in the run up, I have started walking through from 4 yards, and also going from 2-3, this is to try and enhance my follow through and getting used to the arm at a different angle, still bowling some full tosses, so I think that my run up is too long/too inconsistent, so surely the smaller the run up the harder it is to get it wrong? I am also not jumping into the crease (The way I do in videos) but now I am jumping in at more of a Warne height.

With this walking in, I feel much more relaxed, I am rotating and I am landing the balls in the right area with good flight and good accuracy. With the arm lower, I have also started getting the seam perfect so it is wobbling as such and it is landing on it, meaning greater chance of Curve/Drift.

Really like what you said there CP as it is really similar to what I am doing! Do you have a Youtube channel?
 
TomBowler97 said:
I have adjusted my run up now, as in my opinion and probably many peoples opinion is that the reason for a bad ball is something that has gone wrong in the run up, I have started walking through from 4 yards, and also going from 2-3, this is to try and enhance my follow through and getting used to the arm at a different angle, still bowling some full tosses, so I think that my run up is too long/too inconsistent, so surely the smaller the run up the harder it is to get it wrong? I am also not jumping into the crease (The way I do in videos) but now I am jumping in at more of a Warne height.

With this walking in, I feel much more relaxed, I am rotating and I am landing the balls in the right area with good flight and good accuracy. With the arm lower, I have also started getting the seam perfect so it is wobbling as such and it is landing on it, meaning greater chance of Curve/Drift.

Really like what you said there CP as it is really similar to what I am doing! Do you have a Youtube channel?
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The walk in is something I've only just started doing myself. You're spot on about the approach to the crease being a massive part of what happens at the other end. It will determine your position at the crease and that position will then determine what you do with your arm and wrist. Previously, I would jump into the crease and I would land with the front foot pretty much on the same line as the back foot and the delivery stride was maybe about a shoulder width apart. I didn't worry about that. But I am now adjusting that because I suspect a lot of issues I'm having with the angle of my bowling arm are to do with balance issues stemming from that position at the crease. My momentum was straight down the pitch and my weight then tended to fall away to the left. All of that probably ensured that my bowling arm ended up right behind me.

With the walk into the crease and no jump, I am now ensuring that the momentum is into the line of the stumps, the front foot then carrying on on that line and across my body, the delivery stride much wider (maybe getting on for twice as wide) with the arm pointing more towards mid-on rather than directly behind me. I'm still working on it, but I find that the more I get that front foot across me, the more I am able to turn the ball. It all helps with balance and then that position you are in at the crease gives you the ideal position to rotate from. When I tried to jump into the crease, the front foot would simply not get onto the line I wanted it to. The walk in gets me doing that, so I'll carry on with that until it becomes hard wired. I only lose a fraction of energy by walking in and not running/jumping and I know that when I do start running/jumping in that I will get even more energy on that ball. For now, I will stick with the walk in because I reckon it will take a good 2 or 3 weeks until I get that front leg and delivery stride right naturally.

A couple of years ago, I actually would hop into the crease. I took off on the right leg and landed on the right leg rather than taking off on the left leg. It was something I did without thinking about it and nobody ever mentioned it to me. It was only by filming myself bowling that I noticed it. At first, I didn't think about correcting it because I was delivering the ball quite well. But ultimately, I decided I had to fix it because I noticed that my balance wasn't great. Just like anything new with your approach to the crease, it felt strange but within about 2 weeks I was able to jump in quite naturally. It did take about 2 weeks however. My landing position at the crease now is probably a hangover from that hop into the crease. I've never got that front leg right across with my momentum firmly into the line of the stumps. All the info you will see and read about legspin will tell you to get that momentum into the line of the stumps with that front leg right across your body and with the delivery stride around the length of the crease. I think, from personal experience, that you probably do need to get as close to that as possible and a walk in start is a good way to get that nailed down.

I don't really have a youtube channel. I do post some videos now and then but only for use on this forum. If the weather gets better today, I will get down to the nets and try to video what I am doing with my approach to the crease.
 
TomBowler97 said:
New blog discussing approach to the wicket! http://mylegspinjourney.blogspot.co.uk/
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Sounds good. You need to make sure to keep the number of things you are working on at any one time to a minimum. You don't want to be thinking about more than one or two things when you are bowling. I'd get the position at the crease sorted before anything else. Then, get the run up sorted. Once those two things are consistent and reliable, then you can focus on arm position, balance and wrist movement.
 
Well, here's a few clips (all nice and short and all 1/4 speed) of standing starts, step starts and finally some walking starts:









 
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Walking starts:









As you can see, none of these are ideal for really seeing the flight of the ball or even the turn of the ball. I am using that green post to get that backswing of the bowling arm more on the line I want it to be. I'm not always in the same position when bowling the ball, but the arm does come back on the correct angle. Previously, my arm was coming back directly behind me and would have been hitting that green post. From that position, the arm comes up and moves to the right. With this new position, the arm is now coming straight down the pitch and that makes it now possible to impart a good 50% sidespin on the ball.

If you look at some of those videos (especially the last two walking starts), you will see my arm splays out very wide in the backswing (probably more than it needs to), but you will see that this arm action allows me to bowl with pure sidespin (probably 100% sidespin or very, very close). The ball doesn't turn anymore than the legspinner (50% sidespin) because the topspin really gives the ball a good kick. However, these sidespinners do drift much more (as you can see in walk start no.3) and, as a result, are quite useful against those batters who look to use their feet.

Notice also the delivery stride. Much wider than in my earlier clips and that left foot quite a way towards the line of the stumps. I found that the wider the stride and the more that left foot got across to the line of the stumps, the more spin I generated. That left leg position gives me a lot to rotate with and the wider delivery stride gives a much more solid pace and, consequently, more power in the rotation.
 
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