Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[boogiespinner]

Took a while to get an empty net today. Finally batsmen left and then I bowled until I couldn't see the ball at the other end

To get a reliable stock ball, I was working on topspinners from an arm as high as possible. I was having my usual struggles for accuracy but then I stumbled on something interesting.

When I practiced without using the leading arm (i.e. just letting it hang) I was able to produce a salvo of accurate deliveries. My conclusion is that the leading arm is a power source which needs careful integration into the rest of the action.

 

[Cleanprophet]

When I practiced without using the leading arm (i.e. just letting it hang) I was able to produce a salvo of accurate deliveries. My conclusion is that the leading arm is a power source which needs careful integration into the rest of the action.

For sure. All these things (angle of approach, feet position at the crease, front arm et al) all play a significant part. It's easy to let certain parts of that pass by and not worry about it. My front arm tends to point down the legside rather than at the target. It's something I'll work on over the winter. I have seen pro spinners do the same thing and still bowl well, but I can't help but feel that that the proper directiion of the front arm is very important for more than just accuracy.

I had a game today. Not sure of my figures but I bowled ok and picked up one wicket (had numerous edges off one of the streakiest batters I've ever encountered and a drop by 1st slip). I bowled with a walk in action, no run and no jump. Just trying to get that arm position correct, the delivery stride correct and bowl consistent legspinners, which I seemed to do. No real big spin today, but I put that down to a good pitch that had minimal turn in it and the lack of good energy from my approach to the crease.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Glad to see everyone is struggling as much as I am! Been on holiday and usually me and the 2 sons play a fair bit of cricket on the campsite, but they're getting older now and are nowhere near as up for it as they used to be and as a consequence whereas I usually come back from the holiday fitter and raring to go, not so this time. Bowled badly Saturday 7 runs an over and dropped a dolly off my own bowling - embarrassing and tragic. As a consequence been thinking things through and wondering what's going wrong? Had a feeling I may have been bowing front on and bowled 60-80 balls tonight and confirmed that's what I was doing - balls spraying all over the shop. Thought about it and realised having looked at Beau Casson vids I needed to get a lot more side-on. Tried it and soon realised that a key part of it is the looking over the should outside of the leading arm... Gave that a go and eureka immediate improvement... 80% of the balls spot on line and length and spinning well, those down the legside - only marginally so. Might be something to consider if you're all at sea?

 

[boogiespinner]

I dropped a catch on Saturday, fielding at mid-on the batsman hit one gently in the air towards midwicket, I dived full-length and got to it but it didn't stick. No-one berated me the drop but it would have been awesome to have held it. I feel my mind wasn't quite right. You need to be thinking, "that is MINE, thank you batsman" not "oh **** it is coming in my direction"
I didn't bowl (kind of excluded myself), batted no.11 and faced one ball, off which I scored 2 runs. My first runs for the team!

I will be intending to bowl spin this Saturday with no wimping out. The match is at a ground where I turned a ball in like Warne last season. Practice practice practice

 

[Cleanprophet]

I dropped a catch on Saturday, fielding at mid-on the batsman hit one gently in the air towards midwicket, I dived full-length and got to it but it didn't stick. No-one berated me the drop but it would have been awesome to have held it. I feel my mind wasn't quite right. You need to be thinking, "that is MINE, thank you batsman" not "oh **** it is coming in my direction"
I didn't bowl (kind of excluded myself), batted no.11 and faced one ball, off which I scored 2 runs. My first runs for the team!

I will be intending to bowl spin this Saturday with no wimping out. The match is at a ground where I turned a ball in like Warne last season. Practice practice practice

I've seen lots of dropped catches that are really quite bad. Our usual keeper played yesterday but came to the game late (turned up to watch and, as we were short of 3 players - as usual, he got his kit and played) and fielded rather than kept. He got an absolute dolly. Straight up in the air, not very high, and he just spilled it with hard hands. I shouted to him "welcome back to the Sunday team!" and he had his head in his hands. It happens when you have lots of time to think about it. Diving full length, whether the ball has been hit gently or not, still makes the catch quite tricky.

As for not bowling. You have to feel up for it otherwise you won't bowl well. You're probably not going to feel relaxed until you start bowling and get going quite nicely. But you can do more harm than good if you are really not up for bowling. Work in the nets is a good way to build that confidence up. It can only do so much however before you have to bowl in a match because the psychology is so different that you can't replicate it in the nets.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Glad to see everyone is struggling as much as I am! Been on holiday and usually me and the 2 sons play a fair bit of cricket on the campsite, but they're getting older now and are nowhere near as up for it as they used to be and as a consequence whereas I usually come back from the holiday fitter and raring to go, not so this time. Bowled badly Saturday 7 runs an over and dropped a dolly off my own bowling - embarrassing and tragic. As a consequence been thinking things through and wondering what's going wrong? Had a feeling I may have been bowing front on and bowled 60-80 balls tonight and confirmed that's what I was doing - balls spraying all over the shop. Thought about it and realised having looked at Beau Casson vids I needed to get a lot more side-on. Tried it and soon realised that a key part of it is the looking over the should outside of the leading arm... Gave that a go and eureka immediate improvement... 80% of the balls spot on line and length and spinning well, those down the legside - only marginally so. Might be something to consider if you're all at sea?

I watched back your last clip of bowling. You're getting that front foot across nicely (something I'm working on) and that bowling arm moves straight down the wicket, even slightly to the offside (again, something I'm working on). But I did notice a couple of things.

1) The leading arm pushes out to the legside (like mine does) rather than straight down the pitch at the target.

2) Your bowling stride is very narrow. Have you tried a bowling stride that is somewhere around the length of the crease (about one yard)? I'd guess that your current delivery stride is possibly half that amount. Trust me, it makes a big, big difference. It feels odd to bowl off a stride that is suddenly twice as wide as your normal hard-wired stride, but you will find it gives you much more balance and power and, subsequently, control.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Yeah - good observations. The stride is a biggie - I've noticed that so many of the pro's - especially Warne and yesterday Casson have a good long stride. I sometimes notice when I'm walking these days that I walk with shorter 'Old bloke' strides and then make a conscious effort to put more effort into basic walking. A part of me thinks that if my usual everyday walking lacks is decreasing in it's power and explosiveness, there's little hope that the stride in my bowling is going to naturally occur, so if I'm going to look into that as being something to improve on it's something I've got to do a lot of work on. The arm after last night might be something that's now coming together though?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I've seen lots of dropped catches that are really quite bad. Our usual keeper played yesterday but came to the game late (turned up to watch and, as we were short of 3 players - as usual, he got his kit and played) and fielded rather than kept. He got an absolute dolly. Straight up in the air, not very high, and he just spilled it with hard hands. I shouted to him "welcome back to the Sunday team!" and he had his head in his hands. It happens when you have lots of time to think about it. Diving full length, whether the ball has been hit gently or not, still makes the catch quite tricky.

As for not bowling. You have to feel up for it otherwise you won't bowl well. You're probably not going to feel relaxed until you start bowling and get going quite nicely. But you can do more harm than good if you are really not up for bowling. Work in the nets is a good way to build that confidence up. It can only do so much however before you have to bowl in a match because the psychology is so different that you can't replicate it in the nets.

Yeah mine was a shocker - I'm still thinking about it today at work shaking my head in total disbelief.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Yeah - good observations. The stride is a biggie - I've noticed that so many of the pro's - especially Warne and yesterday Casson have a good long stride. I sometimes notice when I'm walking these days that I walk with shorter 'Old bloke' strides and then make a conscious effort to put more effort into basic walking. A part of me thinks that if my usual everyday walking lacks is decreasing in it's power and explosiveness, there's little hope that the stride in my bowling is going to naturally occur, so if I'm going to look into that as being something to improve on it's something I've got to do a lot of work on. The arm after last night might be something that's now coming together though?

I remember looking at those delivery strides in recent times and thinking "they look very wide. Probably too wide for me to do without it feeling odd". The first time I tried it, it certainly did feel odd. But I have to say that after about 6 or 7 sessions of step starts and walking starts I am now using a wider stride without any problem. I tried running in today (just for the delivery position of that left foot right across to the line of the stumps and the wider stance at the crease) and I was landing in the position quite comfortably.

The arm position/issue will take longer to fix. Looking at that again, I suspect I need to address the position of the arm differently. I was focusing on getting the arm pointing towards mid-on, but that just got me straightening my arm far too early and my arm a long way from my body. It felt uncomfortable and lacking in any fluidity. Plus, with that arm out so wide, it's natural for the arm to pull back towards the body. I need to get back to doing what most other legspinners do (including you and Warne) and keep that bowling arm bent until my arm moves to the position where it is pointing to the ground and then move it backwards towards the mid-on line. Warne is very good at keeping the ball on the same plane from the moment the ball/hand starts moving down to the backswing and finally to the point of release. It's why he could pick a line and bowl it. Pretty much, the line the ball is on as his arm starts to drop and swing back, is the same line it is on when it is released. Someone like Ish Sodhi has the swing of his arm move from outside to in (from the offstump line to just outside the offstump line) because his arm is so upright. That definitely helps generate more movement away from the batter, but it also reduces accuracy. The problem I have is that my arm is moving from outside the offstump line into the offstump line (inside to out). Great for topspinners and googlys, but terrible for legspinners..

 

[boogiespinner]

Felt terrible at practice today. Headache. Was spraying it around too. Last night I finished with some consistency, good pace and able to turn the legbreak at will. Struggling for everything today. Quit early

The doc has prescribed me one smoothie a day, has some fancy ingredients also two eggs, maybe that's give me some good brain power and protein. Need all the help I can get

 

[Cleanprophet]

Felt terrible at practice today. Headache. Was spraying it around too. Last night I finished with some consistency, good pace and able to turn the legbreak at will. Struggling for everything today. Quit early

The doc has prescribed me one smoothie a day, has some fancy ingredients also two eggs, maybe that's give me some good brain power and protein. Need all the help I can get

Not good to practice when you're not feeling well. I packed in early today as well. Not so much because I was ill, but I was back to producing some balls that were going straight on and not turning at all (I knew my hand getting across the ball but over the top again).

I spotted this video that was posted a few weeks ago by Rajastan Royals about Pravin Tambe:



Some very interesting things in that video. The one that interested me most was a drill Tambe was doing around 1:34. Also a couple of things about keeping your head upright/eyes level and Tambe keeping his left hand up and how that gets his hips rotating through just a fraction after the left hand drops - creating torque from where the extra energy/revs/drift comes.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Some very interesting things in that video. The one that interested me most was a drill Tambe was doing around 1:34. Also a couple of things about keeping your head upright/eyes level and Tambe keeping his left hand up and how that gets his hips rotating through just a fraction after the left hand drops - creating torque from where the extra energy/revs/drift comes.

I tried a few things out today, mainly regarding the use of the front arm. I've always had a front arm that pointed towards the legside and never bothered to fix it (I've seen bowlers, like Bishoo, do the same thing). It occured to me, as it should have done long ago, that if the front arm pushes to the legside, then my bowling arm will be inclined move in that direction too. Equally, if the front arm pushes down towards the stumps or even outside the line of offstump, then my bowling arm will move in that direction too - helping generate spin in that direction. With my bowling arm falling behind me, the front arm pushing to the legside is fatal for any sidespin. In the past, my bowling arm never came from directly behind me so the front arm direction wasn't so much of an issue. Now that the bowling arm is doing that, the front arm has to be fixed.

Well, I did that standing drill that Tambe does and had that front arm pushing on the correct line and I was producing some very good legspinners almost every time (very good, that is, in terms of technique - not as balls that would get wickets).

But, the thing that really stuck out was this thing about holding the front arm up a little longer to ensure that I am able to really pull down with it (as MacGill mentions in his video). Essentially, making sure that when my bowling arm was shoulder height, so was my front arm. I always used to think that I pulled down with that left arm a lot. After today, I now know that I wasn't doing it anywhere near as much as I could have. I really did get the feeling of pulling down hard with the front arm and pulling the bowling shoulder/arm through. Something of a revelation.

The bowling arm was still tending to fall behind me, but it didn't stop me getting plenty of sidespin on the ball. I'll still need to do some work to stop that bowling arm falling behind because it is something I never used to do (footage of me from March this year showed me bowling without that issue and producing good legspin consistently - even with a poor front arm action). I suspect that with this improved front arm action, getting the issue with the bowling arm sorted could make really get my bowling to a high standard.

 

[boogiespinner]

An interesting subtlety on Tambe's action is how wide he throws out the front leg before planting. You can see this at 2:36-2:37 very clearly. His foot gets in line with middle stump briefly. This sideways swing surely sets up the pivot.

 

[Cleanprophet]

An interesting subtlety on Tambe's action is how wide he throws out the front leg before planting. You can see this at 2:36-2:37 very clearly. His foot gets in line with middle stump briefly. This sideways swing surely sets up the pivot.

Yeah, I was thinking about that when I saw it too. He really does throw his leg out. I don't run into the crease, so it's not something I'd ever really do. But I suppose it is something you would be inclined to do if you had a decent run up and really wanted to ensure that front leg took your momentum into the line of the stumps.

I had a net session last night and was bowling some nice legspinners. I was going off my normal run-up as well. Towards the end, I noticed some balls going straight on and one or two coming in as googlys (in fairness, they were on a very good line and length and caught the batters out quite a lot - they were just not intended). Not sure if I was losing my front arm or not. But before I finished I went back to that Tambe drill and got the ball coming out with plenty of sidespin on. Obviously still need a few more weeks or doing that drill to get that front arm spot on everytime and need to contine filming my bowling to keep an eye on that front arm as well as the release.

 

[Cleanprophet]

I think I have finally got to the bottom of my release problems and it is somewhat linked to my very first feeling about the cause (the arm moving through too quickly and getting ahead of the body rotation). It is well worth detailing it here in case someone else has these problems in the future.

It was hard to pick up (very hard in fact) in the videos because we're talking about 2D images in not particularly good quality recordings from behind. This is a recording of a delivery using the Tambe drill:



One thing I noticed was how my hips and chest were right at the target at the very point of release. The footage, from a month ago, where the ball was coming out with almost entirely overspin looked ok to me in terms of chest/hip position. It's only comparing it with the above footage that I can see that, at the point of release, my chest/hips are down legside. Just that small difference in chest/hip position at the point of release is enough to ensure that the hand position is altered between topspinner and legspinner. Try it. Stand with your hand in the release position for a legspinner and then turn your chest towards the legside a bit and you obviously find that the hand position is now in a topspinner release position. Move to slightly offside of the target and your hand is in a sidespinner release position.

It was something we spoke about last week. The whole thing of rotating, up on the toes, and the ball being released in the middle of that rotation - at the optimum moment. The optimum moment is clearly the point at which you are in a position to produce legspin. Perhaps through work on the googly or maybe just by trying to bowl quicker I had started to release the ball before I had rotated my body into the ideal position and that was leaving my arm/hand in a topspinning position.

The solution, it seems, is using that front arm much more and much better. It is through pulling down hard with that front arm that I get quicker rotation of chest/hips/shoulders and get that bowling arm in the position it needs to be.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I think I have finally got to the bottom of my release problems and it is somewhat linked to my very first feeling about the cause (the arm moving through too quickly and getting ahead of the body rotation). It is well worth detailing it here in case someone else has these problems in the future.

It was hard to pick up (very hard in fact) in the videos because we're talking about 2D images in not particularly good quality recordings from behind. This is a recording of a delivery using the Tambe drill:



One thing I noticed was how my hips and chest were right at the target at the very point of release. The footage, from a month ago, where the ball was coming out with almost entirely overspin looked ok to me in terms of chest/hip position. It's only comparing it with the above footage that I can see that, at the point of release, my chest/hips are down legside. Just that small difference in chest/hip position at the point of release is enough to ensure that the hand position is altered between topspinner and legspinner. Try it. Stand with your hand in the release position for a legspinner and then turn your chest towards the legside a bit and you obviously find that the hand position is now in a topspinner release position. Move to slightly offside of the target and your hand is in a sidespinner release position.

It was something we spoke about last week. The whole thing of rotating, up on the toes, and the ball being released in the middle of that rotation - at the optimum moment. The optimum moment is clearly the point at which you are in a position to produce legspin. Perhaps through work on the googly or maybe just by trying to bowl quicker I had started to release the ball before I had rotated my body into the ideal position and that was leaving my arm/hand in a topspinning position.

The solution, it seems, is using that front arm much more and much better. It is through pulling down hard with that front arm that I get quicker rotation of chest/hips/shoulders and get that bowling arm in the position it needs to be.

These stand start drills are always a good option to re-configure your action and explore what it is that might be going wrong. Did you bowl today - how did the learning then convert to the game?

My realisation earlier this week that I was bowling too front on and then with the re-adjustment with looking over my shoulder round the outside of my arm to get myself side-on has meant today I've bowled well - 13 overs for 43 or something and two wickets + all the usual not given LBW's and catches that may have been caught with a little more effort etc. I've got two weeks now till the next match, so I'm going to work on some fitness and practice with the side on aspect.

 

[Cleanprophet]

These stand start drills are always a good option to re-configure your action and explore what it is that might be going wrong. Did you bowl today - how did the learning then convert to the game?

My realisation earlier this week that I was bowling too front on and then with the re-adjustment with looking over my shoulder round the outside of my arm to get myself side-on has meant today I've bowled well - 13 overs for 43 or something and two wickets + all the usual not given LBW's and catches that may have been caught with a little more effort etc. I've got two weeks now till the next match, so I'm going to work on some fitness and practice with the side on aspect.

You're spot on Dave. The stand start drills are a great way to get back to the basics. Ideally, you should film your bowling (normal and stand start) and then compare. That's how I, eventually, spotted that my chest/hips were front on at the point of release (essential for all bowling really) when the ball came out well in that stand start, something that was not happening in my normal action.

I suspect a combination of working on the googly and trying rip topspinners and googlys led to me not rotating to a chest on position at the point of release.

One thing we all learn is how difficult legspin is because there are many more facets to it than your first realise. All these 5min masterclass things you see on youtube only tell a fraction of the story. You really need a good 30mins to cover the full basics and, more importantly, why they are the basics.

I like this one Dave: "all the usual not given LBW's and catches that may have been caught with a little more effort etc". It's something you almost get used to, almost!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

You're spot on Dave. The stand start drills are a great way to get back to the basics. Ideally, you should film your bowling (normal and stand start) and then compare. That's how I, eventually, spotted that my chest/hips were front on at the point of release (essential for all bowling really) when the ball came out well in that stand start, something that was not happening in my normal action.

I suspect a combination of working on the googly and trying rip topspinners and googlys led to me not rotating to a chest on position at the point of release.

One thing we all learn is how difficult legspin is because there are many more facets to it than your first realise. All these 5min masterclass things you see on youtube only tell a fraction of the story. You really need a good 30mins to cover the full basics and, more importantly, why they are the basics.

I like this one Dave: "all the usual not given LBW's and catches that may have been caught with a little more effort etc". It's something you almost get used to, almost!

Yeah you have to be philosophical about it otherwise you're not going to enjoy it. I think the 4's (My team) have lost every game, I don't recall winning any games this year. The team we played yesterday was a good match as we got within 15 runs of winning the games, but I was bowled for 0 on the 4th delivery leaving my son stranded not out - batting better than he has ever done, enjoying himself at the crease and smashing his own all time PB score with a knock of 14 that had included two 4's, he was gutted. It's his own fault though as he could have easily batted up the order, but always sells himself short saying I can't bat, I'll bat at 11. I always say no - you bat at 10 then and I'll bat 11. Hopefully next time he'll choose 8 or 9.

I've videoed myself just now - two different ways and a video showing how messed up my run-in is, I'll try and get them uploaded in the next few days.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Yeah you have to be philosophical about it otherwise you're not going to enjoy it. I think the 4's (My team) have lost every game, I don't recall winning any games this year. The team we played yesterday was a good match as we got within 15 runs of winning the games, but I was bowled for 0 on the 4th delivery leaving my son stranded not out - batting better than he has ever done, enjoying himself at the crease and smashing his own all time PB score with a knock of 14 that had included two 4's, he was gutted. It's his own fault though as he could have easily batted up the order, but always sells himself short saying I can't bat, I'll bat at 11. I always say no - you bat at 10 then and I'll bat 11. Hopefully next time he'll choose 8 or 9.

I've videoed myself just now - two different ways and a video showing how messed up my run-in is, I'll try and get them uploaded in the next few days.

A lot of young lads have that attitude and you always have to tell them to "go out there and enjoy it" and not "worry about getting out" etc etc. But, you also get some who are fearless and I always envy them when they bat. I worry too much about getting out and missing the chance to get some runs. Really, that's no way to bat. Graeme Smith was talking today, during the South Africa game, about how you have to find a way to bat relaxed when there is nothing really relaxing about the situation of representing your country in important games. You have to find a way however as that is the only way you cat bat properly or as you do when you work on your technique in the nets.

We had a game today but only managed about 15 overs before the rain came and the game was over. I bowled 2 overs and had, just in those 2 overs, all of what I've come to expect from these games of late. Balls hit to fielders who are too slow, batters slogging for all their worth against a team of only 9 men and the keeper missing a very, very simple stumping. To top it off, I also managed to produce a few topspinners/googlys inadvertently, so that issue is still hanging over me like a big old annoying shadow!

I went into the nets whilst it is was raining and tried that Tambe drill and bowled with lots of sidespin straight away. So I still think there is an issue of me just not getting chest on at the point of release. With that Tambe drill, my starting position has my chest pointing towards square leg (because my front leg and back leg are on the same line). From there, I rotate about 45 degrees to chest on and produce lots of sidespin. With the front foot across my body, as it really should be, it leaves me fully side on with my chest towards midwicket. I should be able to rotate 90 degrees from there to chest on, but I don't think I am doing that. I am getting about 70 degrees rotated by the time I release the ball and that leaves my hand in a topspinning position.

My old jump into the crease (as you can see in the Ice Cricket video) put me in a position similar to the Tambe drill position with my left foot on the same line as my right foot and my chest facing square leg. This is probably why I release the ball as I do. I'm just not used to a 90 degree rotation before releasing the ball. I'm left with two options:

1) Revert back to my old position at the crease and have a smaller rotation or

2) Work hard on getting side on at the crease and rotating the full 90 degrees and accept it will take more time and work.

Really, the easy option is the first one and I can probably bowl decent legspinners doing that. If I want to bowl very good legspinners, I probably have to have more rotation than that to generate that extra bit of energy on the ball.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

A lot of young lads have that attitude and you always have to tell them to "go out there and enjoy it" and not "worry about getting out" etc etc. But, you also get some who are fearless and I always envy them when they bat. I worry too much about getting out and missing the chance to get some runs. Really, that's no way to bat. Graeme Smith was talking today, during the South Africa game, about how you have to find a way to bat relaxed when there is nothing really relaxing about the situation of representing your country in important games. You have to find a way however as that is the only way you cat bat properly or as you do when you work on your technique in the nets.

We had a game today but only managed about 15 overs before the rain came and the game was over. I bowled 2 overs and had, just in those 2 overs, all of what I've come to expect from these games of late. Balls hit to fielders who are too slow, batters slogging for all their worth against a team of only 9 men and the keeper missing a very, very simple stumping. To top it off, I also managed to produce a few topspinners/googlys inadvertently, so that issue is still hanging over me like a big old annoying shadow!

I went into the nets whilst it is was raining and tried that Tambe drill and bowled with lots of sidespin straight away. So I still think there is an issue of me just not getting chest on at the point of release. With that Tambe drill, my starting position has my chest pointing towards square leg (because my front leg and back leg are on the same line). From there, I rotate about 45 degrees to chest on and produce lots of sidespin. With the front foot across my body, as it really should be, it leaves me fully side on with my chest towards midwicket. I should be able to rotate 90 degrees from there to chest on, but I don't think I am doing that. I am getting about 70 degrees rotated by the time I release the ball and that leaves my hand in a topspinning position.

My old jump into the crease (as you can see in the Ice Cricket video) put me in a position similar to the Tambe drill position with my left foot on the same line as my right foot and my chest facing square leg. This is probably why I release the ball as I do. I'm just not used to a 90 degree rotation before releasing the ball. I'm left with two options:

1) Revert back to my old position at the crease and have a smaller rotation or

2) Work hard on getting side on at the crease and rotating the full 90 degrees and accept it will take more time and work.

Really, the easy option is the first one and I can probably bowl decent legspinners doing that. If I want to bowl very good legspinners, I probably have to have more rotation than that to generate that extra bit of energy on the ball.

Just a quick one so that you check back later - but I've had an epiphany today, loads to write later - probably starting a new thread as I feel it's so important. I'll read your post now and reply in a few minutes...