Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[MoMole]

In my experience it is too hard to change from, say, a leg spinner to a topspinner after you've started your delivery stride. More often than not the accuracy or the aim of the delivery will be off as your mind is in two places. That is why you need to premeditate and figure out what they are trying to do before you bowl the ball.

That's what I thought. Anytime I try to react to a batsman charging I scuff it wide or drag it down for a half tracker. I'm guessing the grip might differ somewhat for a topspinner as opposed to a normal leggie.
Any signs you usually look out for to see if a batsman will leave his crease? I usually find they tend to shift their weight forward or shuffled their front foot as your running in. Anything you look out for in particular? Or are you reading the situation and premeditating before you even begin your run up?

 

[Leggy88]

That's what I thought. Anytime I try to react to a batsman charging I scuff it wide or drag it down for a half tracker. I'm guessing the grip might differ somewhat for a topspinner as opposed to a normal leggie.
Any signs you usually look out for to see if a batsman will leave his crease? I usually find they tend to shift their weight forward or shuffled their front foot as your running in. Anything you look out for in particular? Or are you reading the situation and premeditating before you even begin your run up?

The grip isn't different, it's just the release.

Yeah, the weight forward thing I look for mostly. Also if you look at the past, see what they've done to other deliveries of yours, that is usually the best way to predict what they may do in the future.

 

[MoMole]

Yeah in Australia there is an encouraging culture when it comes to spin due to Warne. Although in saying that, I have not found any leg spin coaches or anyone that knows more than the basics of legspin. That's why I've come to this forum, there is some really good knowledge throughout this whole discussion for people that don't have coaches and are self-taught like me.

The 1 or 2 proper offies in my league are actually pretty good, they would get a fair few revolutions and they spin it nearly as much as leggies. However, you do get the odd batsman that tries a couple offies when his team is not bowling so well.

Am I right in saying in Aus you need to bowl with more topspin than side spin? I remember hearing about that on commentary when they were discussing Nathan Lyon's effectiveness or lack of effectiveness in certain conditions.
Why is that?
I'm guessing the wickets must be different than hear in England. Maybe a lot drier and firmer?

 

[Leggy88]

Am I right in saying in Aus you need to bowl with more topspin than side spin? I remember hearing about that on commentary when they were discussing Nathan Lyon's effectiveness or lack of effectiveness in certain conditions.
Why is that?
I'm guessing the wickets must be different than hear in England. Maybe a lot drier and firmer?

You are correct there. They are drier and firmer, and if you want to get it to turn on most wickets you need topspin for the ball to be able to grip in the surface and spin out of it. If you have too much sidespin the ball will not grip and will slide on typically. In saying this though you get the odd pitch in my league that will take any type of spin, and the odd one which will only be receptive to mostly topspin.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

In terms of the flipper Dave, are you bowling like Warne and Phil Potts advise which is clicking the fingers to create backspin or do you have your own method? I've never had much luck with the clicking style and gave up on it quite quickly. But having a backspinner is really useful so I'd love to develop one.

Yeah like Grimmett with click fingers, I prefer to say, he's the originator that brought it to an over-arm action in the 1930's. It's been around since 1800's and earlier. It was used extensively in lob bowling (Under-arm). But my main point of reference was Warne and Jenner. I bowl it with back-spin, rarely with the seam up as Warne and Jenner demonstrate, I bowl with a mixed seam or cross seam and this tends to make it do weird things in the air apparently and then its inconsistent off the wicket.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Really?
Tbf calling most of the offies I meet actual spinners may be a bit of a stretch. Most of them are just batsmen who get bored during nets or guys too chubby to bowl fast anymore so they just turn their arms over and bowl a bit of offspin. I havent really met an offie that can really turn it.
I'm guessing in Australia there's a whole different culture in relation to spin and leg spin especially because of Warne?
Does that mean you have actual coaches that know about leg spin?

I'm with you Mo, all I see 80% finger spinners - regular offies and the occasional SLA and yeah as your description of them is pretty spot on. Although over my 16 years or whatever it is, some of the blokes I've seen have been exceptionally good. Last year our 4th best bowler at our club was a Finger spinner and most years they're up there in the top 3.

 

[MoMole]

Yeah like Grimmett with click fingers, I prefer to say, he's the originator that brought it to an over-arm action in the 1930's. It's been around since 1800's and earlier. It was used extensively in lob bowling (Under-arm). But my main point of reference was Warne and Jenner. I bowl it with back-spin, rarely with the seam up as Warne and Jenner demonstrate, I bowl with a mixed seam or cross seam and this tends to make it do weird things in the air apparently and then its inconsistent off the wicket.

Any advice on how to work on this? I can do the clicking action and get back spin when tossing it from hand to hand but as soon as I try to bowl it goes all over the play with zero control. Is there a difference in arm angle/release point? Do you do anything different with your body?

 

[Leggy88]

Any advice on how to work on this? I can do the clicking action and get back spin when tossing it from hand to hand but as soon as I try to bowl it goes all over the play with zero control. Is there a difference in arm angle/release point? Do you do anything different with your body?

Also, another question about the flipper - whenever I try it when bowling it doesn't come out fast at all? do you know what I would be doing wrong? Because when warne bowled it it was at least 20kmh quicker than his stock ball, and when I bowl it it is about the same pace as my normal deliveries; if anything a bit slower. When I flick the flipper from hand to hand it comes out with the same pace and spin as yours in the video Dave, so I must be doing something wrong in the bowling action.

Would you recommend someone like me learning the flipper this offseason Dave?

 

[Darth Spin]

I bowled 10 overs for the first time since October. It felt pretty good. I was a bit rusty, fell over towards the offside a few times and dropped some wide/short, but apart from that got my leg breaks going and bowled some flippers too. The flipper will be my variant this season so I'm bowling two or three of them every dozen deliveries to work it in there and keep it fresh.

The season starts in two weeks, there isn't much time left. I want to get a couple of hundred overs done in the nets before it starts.

 

[Leggy88]

I bowled 10 overs for the first time since October. It felt pretty good. I was a bit rusty, fell over towards the offside a few times and dropped some wide/short, but apart from that got my leg breaks going and bowled some flippers too. The flipper will be my variant this season so I'm bowling two or three of them every dozen deliveries to work it in there and keep it fresh.

The season starts in two weeks, there isn't much time left. I want to get a couple of hundred overs done in the nets before it starts.

That's nice. Sounds like you should be in good stead for the season. Are you going to be bowling wrongun's and topspinners too or just the flipper? If so, why?

 

[Darth Spin]

That's nice. Sounds like you should be in good stead for the season. Are you going to be bowling wrongun's and topspinners too or just the flipper? If so, why?

Hi mate, yeah hopefully I will be in good form by the time the first game starts. I have done more fitness work over the winter than I would normally do.

I don't bowl wrong uns much anymore because I had googly syndrome about 9 years ago when I had practiced it too much and it became better than my leg break. All of a sudden I couldn't bowl my stock leg break and I was in real trouble. It took quite a while to fix it and get my leg break back to normal, possibly years. I don't want to dabble with the dark side of the googly again, I don't see the point of it now as I think my flipper is a better ball. The top spinner I have never really bothered with much, I can bowl one but I prefer a straight back spinner like the flipper. I think I only need one reliable variant to optimize my bowling.

 

[Leggy88]

Hi mate, yeah hopefully I will be in good form by the time the first game starts. I have done more fitness work over the winter than I would normally do.

I don't bowl wrong uns much anymore because I had googly syndrome about 9 years ago when I had practiced it too much and it became better than my leg break. All of a sudden I couldn't bowl my stock leg break and I was in real trouble. It took quite a while to fix it and get my leg break back to normal, possibly years. I don't want to dabble with the dark side of the googly again, I don't see the point of it now as I think my flipper is a better ball. The top spinner I have never really bothered with much, I can bowl one but I prefer a straight back spinner like the flipper. I think I only need one reliable variant to optimize my bowling.

Fair enough, I agree that just one variation will allow each variation you bowl to be as accurate and effective as possible as you have simply practiced it more rather than having to practice 3 or 4 variations at once.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Any advice on how to work on this? I can do the clicking action and get back spin when tossing it from hand to hand but as soon as I try to bowl it goes all over the play with zero control. Is there a difference in arm angle/release point? Do you do anything different with your body?

Regarding body - not that I'm aware. When I learned how to do it, I spent the whole of an Easter holiday doing so as I recall - so probably 3-5 hours a day for the best part of a week and then I eased up a bit as I recall as I'd over done it on my rotator cuff. To learn it - don't try and bowl it over 22 yards - have the stumps about 16 yards and bowl off a stand start maybe or a walk in and just bowl slow and try and get it straight and then work from there. Ignore all the claims about how long it takes to learn- just take it easy and be positive over a short distance.

 

[MoMole]

Evening fellas,
April has finally thawed and I managed to get out to the back garden for an hour of bowling and got a bunch of clips.
I've started practicing the flipper like you said Dave and you're right, it's not actually that hard. Controlling it will take some serious practice but that actual backspin is relatively simple. I noticed straight away that the ball was carrying through the air (despite not looping), staying straight after pitching, and not bouncing much higher than the stumps. Which is all pretty encouraging. I bowled it two ways: with a cocked and a uncocked wrist and there's a clip at the end of it going disastrously .

I've also got some footage of the UFO ball I was talking about earlier. I wasn't getting as much drift but I put that down to being rusty after not having bowled for 2 weeks. But there is definitely some very late drift and despite landing shiny side down there's still some great turn (although on a real wicket I reckon it will stay straighter.) I've included full speed and slomo clips but the quality isn't great. The light was dying and I had to compress them so I could upload here. I'll try get some better clips as the week progresses since it looks like the sun will be shining for the next few days.

Let me know what you all think!

 

[Leggy88]

Evening fellas,
April has finally thawed and I managed to get out to the back garden for an hour of bowling and got a bunch of clips.
I've started practicing the flipper like you said Dave and you're right, it's not actually that hard. Controlling it will take some serious practice but that actual backspin is relatively simple. I noticed straight away that the ball was carrying through the air (despite not looping), staying straight after pitching, and not bouncing much higher than the stumps. Which is all pretty encouraging. I bowled it two ways: with a cocked and a uncocked wrist and there's a clip at the end of it going disastrously .

I've also got some footage of the UFO ball I was talking about earlier. I wasn't getting as much drift but I put that down to being rusty after not having bowled for 2 weeks. But there is definitely some very late drift and despite landing shiny side down there's still some great turn (although on a real wicket I reckon it will stay straighter.) I've included full speed and slomo clips but the quality isn't great. The light was dying and I had to compress them so I could upload here. I'll try get some better clips as the week progresses since it looks like the sun will be shining for the next few days.

Let me know what you all think!

Wow, that Ufo ball is gonna be a real weapon. Massive drift. I'll give it a try. Maybe if it doesn't turn on real wickets you could use it as a slider type delivery, it definitely looks like a leg break, and with the drift in too, that will surely get tons of lbws and bowleds. That ball is really exciting. The flipper looked real nice as well. It was coming out fast. That happens when you bowl in the backyard, sometimes you release it really badly and it can break a window haha. When I bowl in my backyard and it comes out wrong it often goes onto the road though so that'll be scary for any cars driving by!

 

[MoMole]

Wow, that Ufo ball is gonna be a real weapon. Massive drift. I'll give it a try. Maybe if it doesn't turn on real wickets you could use it as a slider type delivery, it definitely looks like a leg break, and with the drift in too, that will surely get tons of lbws and bowleds. That ball is really exciting. The flipper looked real nice as well. It was coming out fast. That happens when you bowl in the backyard, sometimes you release it really badly and it can break a window haha. When I bowl in my backyard and it comes out wrong it often goes onto the road though so that'll be scary for any cars driving by!

Haha thanks. It's even better when I first started practicing it, I'm a bit rusty now but I'm hoping after a few hours of consistent practice I can get it under control. I would actually rather it didn't turned and skidded straight on. Like you said, getting an LBW or bowled or even a leading edge would be easier if it stayed straight on. I'm sort of approaching it the same way as a fast bowler approaches an inswinger. I think it's all about commitment and power. Yeah definitely give it a go! I've attached a couple pics of the grip. Think of it like holding a wine glass and the release, in my mind, is like how they toss up pizza when they're stretching the dough. I think you need to get a lot of revs on the ball to get the drift. I think about engaging my index finger to control it and keep it down and imparting spin with a strong flick of the wrist. Let me know how it goes and if a video tutorial would help you!

Yeah I'm confident that I'm gonna try and make the flipper my main variation as I've always wanted a straighter skiddy one, especially if it can trick the batsman to get on the back foot and beat him through the gate or LBW him. It feels really comfortably on my shoulder and wrist so shouldn't have any issues practicing it endlessly.

Haha, I'm just glad I didn't smash my next door neighbours green house. I've destroyed the shed wall though, it's covered in little red dots and missing chunks of plaster.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Evening fellas,
April has finally thawed and I managed to get out to the back garden for an hour of bowling and got a bunch of clips.
I've started practicing the flipper like you said Dave and you're right, it's not actually that hard. Controlling it will take some serious practice but that actual backspin is relatively simple. I noticed straight away that the ball was carrying through the air (despite not looping), staying straight after pitching, and not bouncing much higher than the stumps. Which is all pretty encouraging. I bowled it two ways: with a cocked and a uncocked wrist and there's a clip at the end of it going disastrously .

I've also got some footage of the UFO ball I was talking about earlier. I wasn't getting as much drift but I put that down to being rusty after not having bowled for 2 weeks. But there is definitely some very late drift and despite landing shiny side down there's still some great turn (although on a real wicket I reckon it will stay straighter.) I've included full speed and slomo clips but the quality isn't great. The light was dying and I had to compress them so I could upload here. I'll try get some better clips as the week progresses since it looks like the sun will be shining for the next few days.

Let me know what you all think!

Loving it Mo, a man after my own heart! Mate the places I've practiced - your garden with all the stuff in between you and the stumps - just sums up the determination of wrist spinners... Gotta practice all the time and anywhere. That's great. Yeah those UFO balls look good, but your Flipper - looks like that's got off to a good start, so yeah keep at it. Yeah made smile your vids and the one that went wrong at the end!

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Haha thanks. It's even better when I first started practicing it, I'm a bit rusty now but I'm hoping after a few hours of consistent practice I can get it under control. I would actually rather it didn't turned and skidded straight on. Like you said, getting an LBW or bowled or even a leading edge would be easier if it stayed straight on. I'm sort of approaching it the same way as a fast bowler approaches an inswinger. I think it's all about commitment and power. Yeah definitely give it a go! I've attached a couple pics of the grip. Think of it like holding a wine glass and the release, in my mind, is like how they toss up pizza when they're stretching the dough. I think you need to get a lot of revs on the ball to get the drift. I think about engaging my index finger to control it and keep it down and imparting spin with a strong flick of the wrist. Let me know how it goes and if a video tutorial would help you!

Yeah I'm confident that I'm gonna try and make the flipper my main variation as I've always wanted a straighter skiddy one, especially if it can trick the batsman to get on the back foot and beat him through the gate or LBW him. It feels really comfortably on my shoulder and wrist so shouldn't have any issues practicing it endlessly.

Haha, I'm just glad I didn't smash my next door neighbours green house. I've destroyed the shed wall though, it's covered in little red dots and missing chunks of plaster.

Ahh the dough description is good. That sounds more akin to a finger spinners ball, I might give it a go, If I could bowl finger spin I'd definitely do both. Yeah I'm a massive fan of the Flipper, it was basically my stock ball for a couple of years and got me back into the team and moved me up a level. I went through a phase bowling leggies where I could get the batters to make a mistake and mis-hit the ball, but being in a 4th XI team with other old blokes, no-one ever caught them! I was then perceived as expensive and ineffective and played a couple of games where I was batting at 11 and not bowling, so had to change things up, that's when I went 95% flipper and then started taking wickets and being quite tight with the runs. It's only the last summer I've gone back to Leg-Breaks and the balance is more conventional 80% Leg-Breaks 20% Flippers. Good to hear it's going well. In my house there's been periods where there's red scuff marks on the ceiling - used to drive my wife mad! Mind the green-house!

 

[Leggy88]

Ahh the dough description is good. That sounds more akin to a finger spinners ball, I might give it a go, If I could bowl finger spin I'd definitely do both.

That's interesting, I remember hearing Graeme Swann talking about his UFO ball - I'll have to check it out and see how he does it compared to Momole! Should be cool to see.

Haha thanks. It's even better when I first started practicing it, I'm a bit rusty now but I'm hoping after a few hours of consistent practice I can get it under control. I would actually rather it didn't turned and skidded straight on. Like you said, getting an LBW or bowled or even a leading edge would be easier if it stayed straight on. I'm sort of approaching it the same way as a fast bowler approaches an inswinger. I think it's all about commitment and power. Yeah definitely give it a go! I've attached a couple pics of the grip. Think of it like holding a wine glass and the release, in my mind, is like how they toss up pizza when they're stretching the dough. I think you need to get a lot of revs on the ball to get the drift. I think about engaging my index finger to control it and keep it down and imparting spin with a strong flick of the wrist. Let me know how it goes and if a video tutorial would help you!

That pizza toss and wine glass description actually really helped! I'll give this ball a good experiment when I get to doing some consistent offseason training in a week or so. I'm aiming to get it to drift and go straight on, that would be a deadly ball. I think I will give the flipper a go too. I've got a lot of time over the offseason to work on all these variations, hopefully I have some success with them. A video tutorial would be awesome to see if you'd be willing to do it, but I think I have a decent idea at how to bowl the ball, although it's much easier said than done I'm sure!

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

That's interesting, I remember hearing Graeme Swann talking about his UFO ball - I'll have to check it out and see how he does it compared to Momole! Should be cool to see.



That pizza toss and wine glass description actually really helped! I'll give this ball a good experiment when I get to doing some consistent offseason training in a week or so. I'm aiming to get it to drift and go straight on, that would be a deadly ball. I think I will give the flipper a go too. I've got a lot of time over the offseason to work on all these variations, hopefully I have some success with them. A video tutorial would be awesome to see if you'd be willing to do it, but I think I have a decent idea at how to bowl the ball, although it's much easier said than done I'm sure!

With your Flipper start with a smaller ball, even a tennis ball to get the click with the fingers going. I'd work on it just flicking it to your other hand for a couple of weeks, it'll be all over the place initially, but you'll get there and you'll build up the muscles in your hand bit by bit. Use a small ball for most of the time. A note of warning Richie Benaud reckoned you shouldn't bowl it till your 18 because your bones or something are not ready for it. I'd just be wary and not over-do it, if it gets sore rest up for a week or so and then see how it goes. It does put a fair bit of stress on your thumb and hand.