Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[Darth Spin]

I played a 40 over league match today for the 2nd team. I bowled 7 overs 0 maidens 20 runs 0 wickets.

A strange bowl for me, not an awful lot happened. No boundaries, not many chances. I shouted for an LBW and the keeper missed a stumping but it was from a full toss and it was difficult, he gets a pass. A few airy shots but none close to fielders. I wasn't happy with my bowling, and I wanted a wicket, but I was happy with my economy and kept the score down and we won the game.

I don't think I was bowling very well, I was not following through with much oomph. I normally finish further down the wicket but a lot of deliveries I was still near the crease after bowling. The line and length was okay, though.

I'm suffering from lower back pain at the moment and I wonder if that's affecting my bowling, but I don't think it's an excuse because in the nets I've been bowling okay and following through properly. I did stiffen up during the last 10 overs in the field and could barely run, and team mates noticed. I've had this back pain for a couple of weeks, maybe I should sit out a couple of games or something but we were light on bowlers today and it was a home game so I felt like I needed to do my bit and play.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

I like them all mate, I don't think the flipper needs to be any faster than that.

It took me ages to get my flipper to where it is now, but I think most of that was just doing it hand to hand. I think that's the best way of making the flipper better, just practicing the finger click release. Mine also got better when I did press ups and toned up a bit.

The hand to hand thing is definitely important.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

I played a 40 over league match today for the 2nd team. I bowled 7 overs 0 maidens 20 runs 0 wickets.

A strange bowl for me, not an awful lot happened. No boundaries, not many chances. I shouted for an LBW and the keeper missed a stumping but it was from a full toss and it was difficult, he gets a pass. A few airy shots but none close to fielders. I wasn't happy with my bowling, and I wanted a wicket, but I was happy with my economy and kept the score down and we won the game.

I don't think I was bowling very well, I was not following through with much oomph. I normally finish further down the wicket but a lot of deliveries I was still near the crease after bowling. The line and length was okay, though.

I'm suffering from lower back pain at the moment and I wonder if that's affecting my bowling, but I don't think it's an excuse because in the nets I've been bowling okay and following through properly. I did stiffen up during the last 10 overs in the field and could barely run, and team mates noticed. I've had this back pain for a couple of weeks, maybe I should sit out a couple of games or something but we were light on bowlers today and it was a home game so I felt like I needed to do my bit and play.

Darth being nearly 63, all of these things are of a great concern to me, especially as I still want to be bowling when I'm 83! So I have to do some work keeping the body ticking over. Some of the key things I keep seeing and reading about associated with back pain (1). If your job and home life involves sitting at a computer or just sitting around - yep you're gonna get back pain. (2). If you want to avoid back pain in those scenarios you need to work on your core and your butt. I do a handful of flexibility and strengthening drills using Terra bands and I never suffer back pain, but if I stop doing these exercises within days I'm like a 63 year old, I can't move/run and I definitely cannot bowl. But to keep things ticking along I don't do a great deal because if I'm honest doing the drills bores me to tears and there's a little bloke on my shoulder all the time saying "Mate -your old, you should be taking it easy". That I'm always having to battle against. Most of the exercise I do I've learned from Youtube... Strengthside - Upright health
Redefining strength but they definitely work for me.

 

[Darth Spin]

Darth being nearly 63, all of these things are of a great concern to me, especially as I still want to be bowling when I'm 83! So I have to do some work keeping the body ticking over. Some of the key things I keep seeing and reading about associated with back pain (1). If your job and home life involves sitting at a computer or just sitting around - yep you're gonna get back pain. (2). If you want to avoid back pain in those scenarios you need to work on your core and your butt. I do a handful of flexibility and strengthening drills using Terra bands and I never suffer back pain, but if I stop doing these exercises within days I'm like a 63 year old, I can't move/run and I definitely cannot bowl. But to keep things ticking along I don't do a great deal because if I'm honest doing the drills bores me to tears and there's a little bloke on my shoulder all the time saying "Mate -your old, you should be taking it easy". That I'm always having to battle against. Most of the exercise I do I've learned from Youtube... Strengthside - Upright health
Redefining strength but they definitely work for me.

Thanks for the tips, mate. Lower back pain isn't often a problem for me but this injury or whatever it is is quite persistent. I think I got it either the first game of the season or the next day lifting crates/boxes, which I didn't want to do but had to.

It's frustrating because I did press ups, sit ups and jogging over the winter to gain strength. I didn't overdo them, I don't think. I felt fine going into the season, fitter than ever. I guess at my age (47) these things can happen. I'll just try and manage it and see what happens. If I don't feel right I'll sit out a game this weekend, take some proper rest and see if that makes a difference.

I don't sit at a desk 9-5 so that part is covered.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Thanks for the tips, mate. Lower back pain isn't often a problem for me but this injury or whatever it is is quite persistent. I think I got it either the first game of the season or the next day lifting crates/boxes, which I didn't want to do but had to.

It's frustrating because I did press ups, sit ups and jogging over the winter to gain strength. I didn't overdo them, I don't think. I felt fine going into the season, fitter than ever. I guess at my age (47) these things can happen. I'll just try and manage it and see what happens. If I don't feel right I'll sit out a game this weekend, take some proper rest and see if that makes a difference.

I don't sit at a desk 9-5 so that part is covered.

Yeah the lifting the next day might have been the trigger then? I think with those kind of lifting back injuries (If you think that's the cause) these days they suggest keeping active, maybe have a look on the NHS website and see what they suggest. Bowling though might have been too active? I'd have done the same though.

 

[Darth Spin]

Yeah the lifting the next day might have been the trigger then? I think with those kind of lifting back injuries (If you think that's the cause) these days they suggest keeping active, maybe have a look on the NHS website and see what they suggest. Bowling though might have been too active? I'd have done the same though.

It was starting to feel incrementally better but then flares up again, like during the match yesterday. The website says it's better to stay active but not overdo it. At the end of the day, the pain will dictate what I can do. I don't think there's much you can do with this type of injury.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Here's a question for everyone. I played against a bloke yesterday who had a decent off-side game, but appeared to really struggle with anything on the leg-side. We played a game in the rain - the whole game - started in the rain, finished in the rain, I think probably the only game that was completed in our region our other 4 teams called theirs off either before or during the games. Anyway... This bloke had a nice cover drive, deft little late cut through gully and aggressive back foot late cut through point (Slightly risky) and straight shots through the V erring towards being predominantly offside...What would you do as an attacking field? I bowled 95% flippers yorker length and went for 4-1-5-0. But noted he didn't get on with ball on the leg-stump or wide of leg-stump and eventually opted to take his guard outside of the leg-stump so he could access the off-side (I just followed him and bowled into his heels). But on a normal day I reckon there might be some value in pitching the ball outside of leg and trying to bowl him round his legs? His data indicates he's out 39% of the time caught, so is that from trying to play aggressive leg-side shots and getting caught I wonder? Do you reckon I'm onto something? Here's his wagon wheel...

 

[Darth Spin]

Must be worth a try bowling just outside off then cutting one across him.

 

[doc8176]

Here's a question for everyone. I played against a bloke yesterday who had a decent off-side game, but appeared to really struggle with anything on the leg-side. We played a game in the rain - the whole game - started in the rain, finished in the rain, I think probably the only game that was completed in our region our other 4 teams called theirs off either before or during the games. Anyway... This bloke had a nice cover drive, deft little late cut through gully and aggressive back foot late cut through point (Slightly risky) and straight shots through the V erring towards being predominantly offside...What would you do as an attacking field? I bowled 95% flippers yorker length and went for 4-1-5-0. But noted he didn't get on with ball on the leg-stump or wide of leg-stump and eventually opted to take his guard outside of the leg-stump so he could access the off-side (I just followed him and bowled into his heels). But on a normal day I reckon there might be some value in pitching the ball outside of leg and trying to bowl him round his legs? His data indicates he's out 39% of the time caught, so is that from trying to play aggressive leg-side shots and getting caught I wonder? Do you reckon I'm onto something? Here's his wagon wheel...View attachment 1795

First thing that comes to mind is do you have a wrong un?

If so you could try pitching it just outside off stump and slightly short to try and get him to cut. Trying to cut a ball that is turning into you and not all that wide is a very good way to get out. Especially if you put a fly slip and/or a backward point in.

Bowling outside leg sounds like it could work. Around the wicket could also be an idea but if you get even marginally too straight/offside you’ll probably get punished and there’s a risk of bowling wides if it’s not turning.

And that catch rate actually seems quite low? Does he get more than 20% bowled or more than 20% LBW? That might be something more worth looking at.

 

[Darth Spin]

I've never bowled anyone around their legs. I don't think I've tried it. I might work on that one Warne had that pitched very fullish outside leg and spun sharply. I think that's what is required.

 

[doc8176]

I've never bowled anyone around their legs. I don't think I've tried it. I might work on that one Warne had that pitched very fullish outside leg and spun sharply. I think that's what is required.

You definitely have to set them up for it as well, if you switch to around the wicket and immediately start bowling full and down leg I doubt you’ll do anything, but if you pitch a few on middle or leg then you might get them shuffle across a bit to cover the spin.

Maybe, that might not happen tho.

 

[doc8176]

How do you lot think I should use my carrom ball (off spinners wrong un basically).

I use it sparingly and pretty much only if a batsman is using his feet or straight charging me. I have a very high success rate of getting people out in the nets by bowling it whenever they charge and it turns past their outside edge and they’re out stumped.

I’ve NEVER had someone even leave their crease to me in an actual game before because it’s lower grade and I don’t think anyone is confident enough.

Do you think there is any other way I should use it?

I’ve tried changing things up and bowling around the wicket carrom ball immediately for the massive change of angle. Goes from pitching outside off and hitting the stumps to pitching on middle/leg and missing the stumps. It’s worked sometimes in the nets, tried it once in a game against a dude that was playing 5 leagues lower than he should be, beat his edge, “well bowled”, proceeded to score 100. So it worked but idk if it’s too obvious of a plan.

I should probably add that I do use it over the wicket like a normal delivery occasionally but it doesn’t seem to work very well.

 

[Leggy88]

How do you lot think I should use my carrom ball (off spinners wrong un basically).

I use it sparingly and pretty much only if a batsman is using his feet or straight charging me. I have a very high success rate of getting people out in the nets by bowling it whenever they charge and it turns past their outside edge and they’re out stumped.

I’ve NEVER had someone even leave their crease to me in an actual game before because it’s lower grade and I don’t think anyone is confident enough.

Do you think there is any other way I should use it?

I’ve tried changing things up and bowling around the wicket carrom ball immediately for the massive change of angle. Goes from pitching outside off and hitting the stumps to pitching on middle/leg and missing the stumps. It’s worked sometimes in the nets, tried it once in a game against a dude that was playing 5 leagues lower than he should be, beat his edge, “well bowled”, proceeded to score 100. So it worked but idk if it’s too obvious of a plan.

I should probably add that I do use it over the wicket like a normal delivery occasionally but it doesn’t seem to work very well.

Personally, I would open a tempting, large gap in the leg side for a flick shot (gap should be between mid on and midwicket - closer to midwicket). Then throughout the over, I would start bowling offies wide of off, next ball fifth stump, next ball off stump - hopefully he tries to push it into the gap and fails (or hits a boundary even so he is still on strike). Then you might bowl another offie middle/leg stump, just so the gap and the shot he wants to play for the next ball is going through his mind. He should be thinking to himself, oh, if he bowls there again, I'll just spot the line and length immediately and whip it into the gap, easy four. It should be similar to when a batsmen faces a leggy, tries to cut him, and then he leaves himself susceptible to the wrong un or slider, (trust me let me tell you a story). Its happened before to myself - NSW representative leggy was bowling to me, I had no idea how to score runs against him, kept trying to defend his big turn off the back foot, then thought to myself - huh, why don't I just rock back, wait for it to turn, and cut it/late cut it depending on how much it turns? Next ball, I absolutely smoke a cut shot for four, and I'm thinking, damn, he's still got that huge gap there, lets hit it again. Then, he bowls a slider;, I go for the cut and it bowls me... Anyhow what I'm trying to say is you need to lure the batsmen into the mindset I was in, where they are focused on a particular shot and are just waiting for you to bowl it in the right area.

Anyway, now that he may have hit you for four through the gap in the ball previously, now is the time to land the ball in the exact same spot, except it's a carrom ball... watch his eyes light up, as he tries the shot again and gets a leading edge or bowled. I guarantee you that if you bowl this set perfectly, you should get a wicket 99/100 when bowling to a batsman that isn't watching the hand too hard or doesn't have a good cricket iq - which is most batsmen haha.

 

[Leggy88]

Here's a question for everyone. I played against a bloke yesterday who had a decent off-side game, but appeared to really struggle with anything on the leg-side. We played a game in the rain - the whole game - started in the rain, finished in the rain, I think probably the only game that was completed in our region our other 4 teams called theirs off either before or during the games. Anyway... This bloke had a nice cover drive, deft little late cut through gully and aggressive back foot late cut through point (Slightly risky) and straight shots through the V erring towards being predominantly offside...What would you do as an attacking field? I bowled 95% flippers yorker length and went for 4-1-5-0. But noted he didn't get on with ball on the leg-stump or wide of leg-stump and eventually opted to take his guard outside of the leg-stump so he could access the off-side (I just followed him and bowled into his heels). But on a normal day I reckon there might be some value in pitching the ball outside of leg and trying to bowl him round his legs? His data indicates he's out 39% of the time caught, so is that from trying to play aggressive leg-side shots and getting caught I wonder? Do you reckon I'm onto something? Here's his wagon wheel...View attachment 1795

I am that player, at least against leg spin (when they aren't bowling half trackers which I can pull). I would basically do exactly as I've described in my previous reply, the one about the leggy setting me up for the slider. Except in your case I would bowl leggies to set him up and then use the flipper instead of the slider. Good thing is with your leggies during the set up you can afford to drag down a few for a cut or two as that is what you want to get him doing.

 

[doc8176]

Personally, I would open a tempting, large gap in the leg side for a flick shot (gap should be between mid on and midwicket - closer to midwicket). Then throughout the over, I would start bowling offies wide of off, next ball fifth stump, next ball off stump - hopefully he tries to push it into the gap and fails (or hits a boundary even so he is still on strike). Then you might bowl another offie middle/leg stump, just so the gap and the shot he wants to play for the next ball is going through his mind. He should be thinking to himself, oh, if he bowls there again, I'll just spot the line and length immediately and whip it into the gap, easy four. It should be similar to when a batsmen faces a leggy, tries to cut him, and then he leaves himself susceptible to the wrong un or slider, (trust me let me tell you a story). Its happened before to myself - NSW representative leggy was bowling to me, I had no idea how to score runs against him, kept trying to defend his big turn off the back foot, then thought to myself - huh, why don't I just rock back, wait for it to turn, and cut it/late cut it depending on how much it turns? Next ball, I absolutely smoke a cut shot for four, and I'm thinking, damn, he's still got that huge gap there, lets hit it again. Then, he bowls a slider;, I go for the cut and it bowls me... Anyhow what I'm trying to say is you need to lure the batsmen into the mindset I was in, where they are focused on a particular shot and are just waiting for you to bowl it in the right area.

Anyway, now that he may have hit you for four through the gap in the ball previously, now is the time to land the ball in the exact same spot, except it's a carrom ball... watch his eyes light up, as he tries the shot again and gets a leading edge or bowled. I guarantee you that if you bowl this set perfectly, you should get a wicket 99/100 when bowling to a batsman that isn't watching the hand too hard or doesn't have a good cricket iq - which is most batsmen haha.

Yeah good idea, I like to do the reverse of that except I tend to use my arm ball for the variation (more consistent). Pitch it 4th-5th stump turning it in for a few balls and then bowl a straight one on 3rd or 4th stump and get them playing for spin, unfortunately the batsman I bowl to are so bad that they just miss it and it goes over the stumps because I play on syntho. Pain.

I like your idea though, I could even do it without the previous ball down leg, just make it look like I’ve bowled one too straight except it a carrom ball and it turns back and gets LBW/Bowled/Leading edge.

Yeah I tend to just play forward and use my feet as much as possible, I will cut if it’s too short tho but I have a terrible pull shot. The front foot play involves a lot of play and misses but somehow not many edges, I think it’s because I always play the line of the ball and not for spin. I’m quite good at not following the ball too. Although I am terrible at picking variations and don’t have any idea against the 1 bloke that can bowl a wrong un at our club.

I’d fall into your suggested trap for off spin though, my game plan against it is to just nudge it with the spin for singles into the leg side and maybe slog sweep or go over the top if they’re too full. If someone bowls me one on off stump that goes the other way I’d be screwed haha.

 

[Leggy88]

Yeah good idea, I like to do the reverse of that except I tend to use my arm ball for the variation (more consistent). Pitch it 4th-5th stump turning it in for a few balls and then bowl a straight one on 3rd or 4th stump and get them playing for spin, unfortunately the batsman I bowl to are so bad that they just miss it and it goes over the stumps because I play on syntho. Pain.

I like your idea though, I could even do it without the previous ball down leg, just make it look like I’ve bowled one too straight except it a carrom ball and it turns back and gets LBW/Bowled/Leading edge.

Yeah I tend to just play forward and use my feet as much as possible, I will cut if it’s too short tho but I have a terrible pull shot. The front foot play involves a lot of play and misses but somehow not many edges, I think it’s because I always play the line of the ball and not for spin. I’m quite good at not following the ball too. Although I am terrible at picking variations and don’t have any idea against the 1 bloke that can bowl a wrong un at our club.

I’d fall into your suggested trap for off spin though, my game plan against it is to just nudge it with the spin for singles into the leg side and maybe slog sweep or go over the top if they’re too full. If someone bowls me one on off stump that goes the other way I’d be screwed haha.

Yeah exactly. Syntho is horrible to bowl spin on. At my club everyone asks why I am so horrible at playing spin when I am a spinner lol. I can't play any decent spinner, much prefer the fast bowlers. That's probably because I never really get decent spinners to bowl to me in the nets at my club - there aren't any, apart from the odd fast bowler or batsman that gets tired at the end and chucks down some questionable offies which wouldn't turn on an indian pitch. When I play good spinners in games, and I mean spinners that you can hear the ball buzzing through the air towards you in my comp - there are at least 3 of them out of the 8 teams in my league - it's the dip that I have no clue how to play, as well as the fast turn due to the topspin. Any tips for playing dip when you have noone like this to practice against? My game plan right now against these bowlers is just to defend, leave, cut and pull. If I even attempt a drive, unless it is a full toss or a gentle half volley, I'm nicking it or getting stumped.

PS: I'm talking about playing leggies - haven't came across any offspinners in my league who get enough dip and turn where it is hard to adjust.

 

[doc8176]

Yeah exactly. Syntho is horrible to bowl spin on. At my club everyone asks why I am so horrible at playing spin when I am a spinner lol. I can't play any decent spinner, much prefer the fast bowlers. That's probably because I never really get decent spinners to bowl to me in the nets at my club - there aren't any, apart from the odd fast bowler or batsman that gets tired at the end and chucks down some questionable offies which wouldn't turn on an indian pitch. When I play good spinners in games, and I mean spinners that you can hear the ball buzzing through the air towards you in my comp - there are at least 3 of them out of the 8 teams in my league - it's the dip that I have no clue how to play, as well as the fast turn due to the topspin. Any tips for playing dip when you have noone like this to practice against? My game plan right now against these bowlers is just to defend, leave, cut and pull. If I even attempt a drive, unless it is a full toss or a gentle half volley, I'm nicking it or getting stumped.

PS: I'm talking about playing leggies - haven't came across any offspinners in my league who get enough dip and turn where it is hard to adjust.

I’m the only “proper” off spinner in my club, there’s like 1 old bloke that bowls right arm slow with some side spin but doesn’t turn. But that’s only because he was injured and couldn’t bowl pace. Other than that I have faced 1 dude that could actually bowl off spin at a good pace and get it to nip in, he bowled me through the gate like 4-5 times in the year I trained with him. No top spin though, I think I’m the only off spinner in any of teams I’ve against and the one I play in that bowls off spin with overspin. I’ve always thought I’d be completely done for against a somewhat competent off spinner, I don’t even want to think about it.

But what we do have is leg spinners and they’re pretty good. The old dude that bowls leggies in A grade has basically become my “spin mentor” which is cool, he’s also the captain which *might* be why I’m supposed to play A grade next year, that and he plants his front pad and plays across the line whenever something is on his pads so he has a slightly positively biased view of my bowling. Also no one knows how to play off spin because it doesn’t exist.

But yeah I think what top spin does is just make you have to readjust the trajectory that you read as full or short. Also tbf you shouldn’t be driving anything that isn’t a half volley or full toss, if it’s on a good length then you have to defend or leave it. Get as far forward as you can if on the front foot and “play it under your eyes”. I have also practiced the “Pujara defence” where I take a little skip out of my crease to defend the ball. You could argue it’s quite risky but I feel like if you trust yourself it’s very effective at nullifying the spin.

 

[Leggy88]

I’m the only “proper” off spinner in my club, there’s like 1 old bloke that bowls right arm slow with some side spin but doesn’t turn. But that’s only because he was injured and couldn’t bowl pace. Other than that I have faced 1 dude that could actually bowl off spin at a good pace and get it to nip in, he bowled me through the gate like 4-5 times in the year I trained with him. No top spin though, I think I’m the only off spinner in any of teams I’ve against and the one I play in that bowls off spin with overspin. I’ve always thought I’d be completely done for against a somewhat competent off spinner, I don’t even want to think about it.

But what we do have is leg spinners and they’re pretty good. The old dude that bowls leggies in A grade has basically become my “spin mentor” which is cool, he’s also the captain which *might* be why I’m supposed to play A grade next year, that and he plants his front pad and plays across the line whenever something is on his pads so he has a slightly positively biased view of my bowling. Also no one knows how to play off spin because it doesn’t exist.

But yeah I think what top spin does is just make you have to readjust the trajectory that you read as full or short. Also tbf you shouldn’t be driving anything that isn’t a half volley or full toss, if it’s on a good length then you have to defend or leave it. Get as far forward as you can if on the front foot and “play it under your eyes”. I have also practiced the “Pujara defence” where I take a little skip out of my crease to defend the ball. You could argue it’s quite risky but I feel like if you trust yourself it’s very effective at nullifying the spin.

Yeah, I'm not sure why there are hardly any good offies in club cricket around Australia - yet there are heaps of leggies, and it is only really the offies who make the domestic and international sides. Yeah true, shouldn't be driving anything shorter than a half volley against a spinner, need to stop that.

 

[doc8176]

Yeah, I'm not sure why there are hardly any good offies in club cricket around Australia - yet there are heaps of leggies, and it is only really the offies who make the domestic and international sides. Yeah true, shouldn't be driving anything shorter than a half volley against a spinner, need to stop that.

I think leg spin can feel a lot more rewarding to bowl but off spin is much more accurate and reliable. Like with a leggie you’ll get a bunch of play and misses but with off spin it normally doesn’t look like you’re doing much and then you’ll just get a wicket. Off spin is a lot less flashy you could say.

Would make sense as to why more people bowl leg spin but the offies tend to be more successful.

I also feel like the ball turning in can actually be a lot more dangerous than the one turning away. If you miss a leggy chances are it’ll miss the stumps. If you miss an off break there’s a good chance it’s going to bowl you or hit your front pad.

 

[doc8176]

Just had a nice net because it wasn't wet somehow. Bowled some off spin and leg spin just for fun. Started out very slow and scattergun, got everything lined back up and going through the crease towards the end. I was trying an app called fulltrack AI that tracks the path of the ball but apparently put a big, ugly water mark on the videos.

Heres some of the tracking-
The weird arm ball. 2 good balls. Leg spin. Pitch Map.


Start of session:
Very slow, still decent balls with nice spin and dip. I was not going very straight in my follow through so i tried to power through the crease more and it did a good job of quickening and straightening me up. I also practiced some arm balls one of which actually turned and the other took middle stump out of the ground. I also noticed wider balls would drift more because the angle allows it to go a bit more.

I was quite happy with how the ball was coming out and the over spin I was getting.


I cant seem to get the videos in order so I'll send a post after this with the videos, its: start of net bowling (floaty), fixed follow through (pace up), nice flighted ball, arm ball (middle stump), arm ball (turned), wide off break (drift).

And then just the fun videos of me trying to turn a leg break as much as possible.