Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Darth Spin said:
Interesting stuff... I wonder who wrote this:-

...in addition to swinging around the pivoting foot as a part of your body being swung round by the forward motion and your arms facilitating the pivot, you add to the pivot/rotation by twisting on the ball of your foot from the hips.

So it's this subtle addition...that could be the key to you producing your leg break with far more spin, dip and drift. The simple addition of ensuring that you get up tall onto the ball of your foot and twisting on the ball of the foot from the hips.

:)
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I've never had the pivot down at all. When I've tried it I haven't felt it strengthen the action at all. Maybe this trick will help.
 
Billywhizz said:
Whoa!! I've just realised after watching myself bowl I've been bowling the toppie, backspinner, and faster legbreak with the straight arc, but my standard legbreak (which is far less accurate) is almost a diagonal arc going from way behind my back. Eureka!!! I cant believe I didnt spot this earlier. Thanks prophet.
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It was something I was doing everytime. Warne's action is as good as any to copy and I noticed he (along with almost every other pro legspinner I watched) never had their arm go behind their back. When you think about it, if you release the ball at the same height everytime and your action repeats itself very well, it won't matter if your arm goes off line and that arc is diagonal. If it isn't 100% repeatable (and really, who's is?), then your line will alter if the height of your release alters. It's just like Mitchell Johnson and his low arm. The height he releases it from impacts on the line he bowls. Get that arc upright and the line is far easier to control. Plus, from my experience, you should get more drift.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I might do that.
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A camera position from just about the umpire's eyeline (probably a touch further back if you want to see your delivery stride) is ideal. I've seen your videos and you tend to have the ball at the batter's end or from side on. If you can get the camera behind you, you will find it much more helpful for checking how side on your are and how much drift you are getting.

boogiespinner said:
I've never had the pivot down at all. When I've tried it I haven't felt it strengthen the action at all. Maybe this trick will help.
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It's interesting. Most people will tell you that the front foot should land at 45 degrees, pointing towards leg slip. From there you pivot around so that that foot points down the pitch or towards the slips. My front foot always lands pointing straight down the pitch, but I still pivot around that front leg with the foot then finishing with it pointing towards the slips. There are a few very good pro leg spinners who's front foot does not land at 45 degrees (Bryce McGain being one of them).

The reason for getting that front foot landing at 45 degrees is that it gets you side on at the crease. If you are side on, you will pivot because you will not bowl the ball down the pitch if you don't pivot. If you are not getting side on, it is well worth looking at that front foot and checking if it is landing at about 45 degrees. As I say, I get side on so the fact that my front foot points down the crease isn't a problem.
 
Cleanprophet said:
My front foot always lands pointing straight down the pitch...
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This is where I would like to see it land Cp!

Cleanprophet said:
The reason for getting that front foot landing at 45 degrees is that it gets you side on at the crease. If you are side on, you will pivot because you will not bowl the ball down the pitch if you don't pivot. If you are not getting side on, it is well worth looking at that front foot and checking if it is landing at about 45 degrees. As I say, I get side on so the fact that my front foot points down the crease isn't a problem.
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Your bfc should be 90 degrees to the wicket [in line with the crease] to get you side on; rotating at the left hip to allow your ffc to be straight on. Difficulty in doing this is probably weak Gl medius. If you have weak Gl medius, you probably should not be bowling... unless you wish to retire from the game entirely due to wrecked knees!!!
 
Cleanprophet said:
It was something I was doing everytime. Warne's action is as good as any to copy and I noticed he (along with almost every other pro legspinner I watched) never had their arm go behind their back. When you think about it, if you release the ball at the same height everytime and your action repeats itself very well, it won't matter if your arm goes off line and that arc is diagonal. If it isn't 100% repeatable (and really, who's is?), then your line will alter if the height of your release alters. It's just like Mitchell Johnson and his low arm. The height he releases it from impacts on the line he bowls. Get that arc upright and the line is far easier to control. Plus, from my experience, you should get more drift.
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Just got back from the nets. Bowled all deliveries with a straight arc. Voila!! Massive improvement. I ditched my old legbreak altogether and just used my topspinner action with a bit more angle and guess what - it actually turned more than my old leggie and consistently drifted and was far more accurate.

So now I have just 4 deliveries. New legbreak, flighted legbreak, fast legbreak and occasional backspinner all with the straight arc. I've put the toppie on the backburner so I dont confuse the issue with new delivery. Bring on the season!!
Thanks again prophet :), such a simple observation that I've not heard anyone mention before, and I've read a ton of info to do with legspin.
 
Liz Ward said:
This is where I would like to see it land Cp!



Your bfc should be 90 degrees to the wicket [in line with the crease] to get you side on; rotating at the left hip to allow your ffc to be straight on. Difficulty in doing this is probably weak Gl medius. If you have weak Gl medius, you probably should not be bowling... unless you wish to retire from the game entirely due to wrecked knees!!!
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I am confused by this, Liz. In the cricket Australia video it says 45 degrees so which is the correct way, technically?

 
Darth Spin said:
I am confused by this, Liz. In the cricket Australia video it says 45 degrees so which is the correct way, technically?

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It really doesn't matter that much. If you watch his foot it rotates all the way round from 45 degrees to straight and beyond. At the point you release the ball it should be pointing roughly straight forward.
 
Cleanprophet said:
It's interesting. Most people will tell you that the front foot should land at 45 degrees, pointing towards leg slip. From there you pivot around so that that foot points down the pitch or towards the slips. My front foot always lands pointing straight down the pitch, but I still pivot around that front leg with the foot then finishing with it pointing towards the slips. There are a few very good pro leg spinners who's front foot does not land at 45 degrees (Bryce McGain being one of them).

The reason for getting that front foot landing at 45 degrees is that it gets you side on at the crease. If you are side on, you will pivot because you will not bowl the ball down the pitch if you don't pivot. If you are not getting side on, it is well worth looking at that front foot and checking if it is landing at about 45 degrees. As I say, I get side on so the fact that my front foot points down the crease isn't a problem.
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hmmm. I've always landed with front foot planted straight with no pivot. I've probably been quite chest on. Think I'll practice without a ball for a bit.
 
Darth Spin said:
I am confused by this, Liz. In the cricket Australia video it says 45 degrees so which is the correct way, technically?
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Not to speak for Liz, but I read that as slight correction to Cleanprophet. ie it isn't front foot landing that gets you side on, its back foot parallel with crease gets you side on.

Shane Warne had some angle. I reckon you'd find most spinners do. Back foot at 90, front foot lands 45 forwards, pivots 90 degrees through to 45 backwards, back foot lands 90 the other way in follow through. Roughly.


Your flippers look sorta off-spinnish out of the hand, like your hand is under or behind the ball instead of over it. Hard to see properly on that footage.
 
macca said:
Where did you find that Grimmett suggestion Cleanprophet? I dont think I have ever heard of it before that's all.
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I think he mentioned it in both 'Getting Wickets' and 'Tricking the Batsman'. Unless I've misunderstood, he simply mentions that you can hit the crease more chest on, ensuring your get less body into the delivery and, as he says, r*tard the spin (ridiculous, I can't even use the word r*tard without a censor - what is the world coming to???). I had a try of it and left it at that as I didn't see the value in it.

Spin Lizard said:
Not to speak for Liz, but I read that as slight correction to Cleanprophet. ie it isn't front foot landing that gets you side on, its back foot parallel with crease gets you side on.
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I never mentioned the back foot. If you get side-on, the back foot will be parallel with the crease (unless you have some sort of leg deformity!). I only mentioned the front foot. I mentioned that because there was talk about the pivot around the front leg and you often see in textbooks and videos (such as the Victoria one above) that front foot lands at 45 degrees. It was just a simple little point to say to ignore that 45 degrees business as your front foot will land wherever it is most comfortable for you.

Billywhizz said:
Just got back from the nets. Bowled all deliveries with a straight arc. Voila!! Massive improvement.
Thanks again prophet :), such a simple observation that I've not heard anyone mention before, and I've read a ton of info to do with legspin.
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No problem at all. It's not something I have ever come across myself in any book or anywhere online. Just something I picked up on myself after watching my bowling and watching the slow motion footage of Warne. Good to hear it is having a positive effect on your bowling.
 
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Darth Spin said:
Yeah I think it is a glorified off break too. But they have some backspin on so that will do me.
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It is another version of the offspinner. It's down to the individual and whether he wants to bowl a ball that goes the other way. It is often assumed that a decent legspinner will bowl a wrong un. I struggled to bowl the googly version. Equally, my flipper had a bit of offspin on it as well as backspin so I had a mess about with the wrist position and figured out a way to use the flipper to put 100% offspin on the ball. On the back of that, I found the old offbreak flipper thread and then found out about Grimmett's description of the offbreak flipper.

Even though I can bowl the offbreak flipper much better than the googly, I still think the googly is a much easier delivery to master and much more natural.
 
Cleanprophet said:
The reason for getting that front foot landing at 45 degrees is that it gets you side on at the crease.
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Liz Ward said:
Your bfc should be 90 degrees to the wicket [in line with the crease] to get you side on...
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Warne bowled flippers when he started, but gave them up for the slider. The reason he got a bunch of wickets with it (with both, actually) was that batsmen thought he was bowling legspinners. He was fooling them at the moment of release, because the action looked so similar.
 
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