Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[boogiespinner]

I am new here, so this may be something of a faux pas, but confess I have always had trouble with the idea of a backspinning flipper. Doesn't backspin make balls hold up on pitching? Just as legspin will provide an impulse to the off, topspinner an impulse forwards, won't backspin provide an impulse backwards?

 

[Spin Lizard]

It has a flatter trajectory, tends to skid.

 

[SLA]

That does look like an offbreak.. and acts like an offbreak. Is it an offbreak?

 

[SLA]

I am new here, so this may be something of a faux pas, but confess I have always had trouble with the idea of a backspinning flipper. Doesn't backspin make balls hold up on pitching? Just as legspin will provide an impulse to the off, topspinner an impulse forwards, won't backspin provide an impulse backwards?

Depends on the pitch. What you say is true on a soft pitch. On a hard pitch the backspin simply acts to prevent any sidespin from gripping, whereas topspin helps it grip. It has no impulse effect of its own.

 

[SLA]

Warne bowled flippers when he started, but gave them up for the slider. The reason he got a bunch of wickets with it (with both, actually) was that batsmen thought he was bowling legspinners. He was fooling them at the moment of release, because the action looked so similar.

This is the key to the flipper, for it to be a legspinner's variation, it HAS to look like a legbreak, meaning the arm has to be pronated at the point of release. Otherwise you're better off just bowling a quick offbreak.

 

[Darth Spin]

That does look like an offbreak.. and acts like an offbreak. Is it an offbreak?

I don't know, I would say it comes out quicker and flatter than an off break. Maybe I need to compile a report for SLOB.

 

[SLA]

I don't know, I would say it comes out quicker and flatter than an off break. Maybe I need to compile a report for SLOB.

I don't think an offbreak has any particular set velocity and trajectory.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

hmmm. I've always landed with front foot planted straight with no pivot. I've probably been quite chest on. Think I'll practice without a ball for a bit.

Give it a go mate, the chances are you'll see an immediate affect - far more turn off the wicket.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I am new here, so this may be something of a faux pas, but confess I have always had trouble with the idea of a backspinning flipper. Doesn't backspin make balls hold up on pitching? Just as legspin will provide an impulse to the off, topspinner an impulse forwards, won't backspin provide an impulse backwards?

Back-spinning flippers hold a straighter line through the air, so a tail-ender might get fooled by them expecting them to dip and bounce like a leg break. I bowl them in a couple of ways, but the most effective for me is a slower ball as they 'Stick' and stall. The faster balls are less effective in my experience and better batmen hit them over the boundary.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

That does look like an offbreak.. and acts like an offbreak. Is it an offbreak?

I'm hoping you're going to come back and say it's a Flipper!!!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

This is where I would like to see it land Cp!



Your bfc should be 90 degrees to the wicket [in line with the crease] to get you side on; rotating at the left hip to allow your ffc to be straight on. Difficulty in doing this is probably weak Gl medius. If you have weak Gl medius, you probably should not be bowling... unless you wish to retire from the game entirely due to wrecked knees!!!

Liz what's a GI medius?

Glutus something medius

 

[Liz Ward]

Liz what's a GI medius?

Glutus something medius

Sorry Dave, it does look like GI but it is G small L and yes Gluteus Medius.

This is a muscle that has been frustrating me [enormously] recently. It is hard to described on here the extent of the forces that these muscles need to handle during bowling and these days I see very few who have strong enough Gl meds to cope with the action. More frustratingly these days, the younger the player the less likely I am to see sufficient strength and this should be the opposite case.

However, reading Cp's post, he clearly demonstrates good strength in this area and if other bowlers have having difficulty getting fully side on with ffc straight down the wicket, their first port of call should be strengthening this muscle!

 

[macca]

I don't know, I would say it comes out quicker and flatter than an off break. Maybe I need to compile a report for SLOB.

SLOB was set up to find Philpotts backspinning missing link. Not the flipper in all it's variety.

If you finger clicked all those deliveries in the clips then, I for one, am impressed.

Now we expect you to act responsibly and put them all back in the box till next off season or at least the tail end of this summer. No, seriously, if you are confident you can work on a flipper as well as bowl a good legbreak and topspinner with no or very,very few half trackers or full bungers, then I cant see the harm. I expect to see you in the England team if you can do that!

Bit hard to tell on a tennis court, but I might have played back and got out to one of those if you had tested me with half a dozen on target legbreaks.

Dont you have cricket nets set up on every street corner like we do here in Australia? You might come in to bowl in the first match and knock the umpire over and hurt yourself on the stumps! I would like too see stumps and creases and a marker at say 9 foot out on a "good" length.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

SLOB was set up to find Philpotts backspinning missing link. Not the flipper in all it's variety.

If you finger clicked all those deliveries in the clips then, I for one, am impressed.

Now we expect you to act responsibly and put them all back in the box till next off season or at least the tail end of this summer. No, seriously, if you are confident you can work on a flipper as well as bowl a good legbreak and topspinner with no or very,very few half trackers or full bungers, then I cant see the harm. I expect to see you in the England team if you can do that!

Bit hard to tell on a tennis court, but I might have played back and got out to one of those if you had tested me with half a dozen on target legbreaks.

Dont you have cricket nets set up on every street corner like we do here in Australia? You might come in to bowl in the first match and knock the umpire over and hurt yourself on the stumps! I would like too see stumps and creases and a marker at say 9 foot out on a "good" length.

That'd be a dream to have that! Macca I live in a town with 100, 000 people and we've got one shabby set of nets with big holes where you pivot and the surface is beginning to come away from the base layer. They're our club nets and only get opened up one evening a week for about 16 weeks. Up north it's very different but down here it's soccer.

 

[Billywhizz]

That'd be a dream to have that! Macca I live in a town with 100, 000 people and we've got one shabby set of nets with big holes where you pivot and the surface is beginning to come away from the base layer. They're our club nets and only get opened up one evening a week for about 16 weeks. Up north it's very different but down here it's soccer.

Soccer? You mean football surely!.
+1 with the nets, our club nets have had 2 junior sessions on them and the grass on the delivery stride has departed already, slowing making way for a fresh pit in each lane as per last year. I tend to use the local park when I'm just practicing accuracy.
Good stuff on the blog as always 'El Capitano'

 

[Darth Spin]

SLOB was set up to find Philpotts backspinning missing link. Not the flipper in all it's variety.

If you finger clicked all those deliveries in the clips then, I for one, am impressed.

Now we expect you to act responsibly and put them all back in the box till next off season or at least the tail end of this summer. No, seriously, if you are confident you can work on a flipper as well as bowl a good legbreak and topspinner with no or very,very few half trackers or full bungers, then I cant see the harm. I expect to see you in the England team if you can do that!

Bit hard to tell on a tennis court, but I might have played back and got out to one of those if you had tested me with half a dozen on target legbreaks.

Dont you have cricket nets set up on every street corner like we do here in Australia? You might come in to bowl in the first match and knock the umpire over and hurt yourself on the stumps! I would like too see stumps and creases and a marker at say 9 foot out on a "good" length.

Well... I think I'm finger clicking it. Whether I am or it is more like a bastardized offspinner I don't know for sure. It has taken alot of work to reduce the angle of offspin to how it is now. They used to turn and pop up more but now I can keep them skiddier and lower more often.

As for the tennis court the net has only just been dropped at our ground after the winter. I was going to use it last night but there were about 6 other people there and I prefer to bowl constantly than wait around so headed for the trusty tennis court. The night before a bloke asked me to leave the tennis court because he said the hard balls would cause damage. Although I can see his point I am bowling at a spot deep in the court next to the fence between the courts themselves, where shots are scarcely played. I'll be going back tomorrow and hopefully will have some batsmen to bowl at as there's a match on. They picked the other leggie for this one, he has a good stock ball but doesn't bowl any variations.

 

[Darth Spin]

Finally got flipper 4 to upload properly, I think it's the best one with the cleanest seam presentation, looks straight. It's what I want the delivery to look like but I don't mind them breaking like offies either. You can see it hits where the camera is which for perspective is about 10" of the ground.

 

[Spin Lizard]

Is what it looks like coming out of your hand that is more important, not so much the spin down this end. If I was batting and you bowled this at me, I would not be thinking 'oh thats his legspinner, its going to turn away'. Thats what you should want me thinking though.

The thumb goes at the bottom, stays at the bottom. It should look to the batsman like your hand is ripping over the top as per normal legspin, but the thumb at the bottom flicks it out.


just after his thumb has 'clicked':

Shane Warne masterclass, flipper is at 4:50

 

[Cleanprophet]

However, reading Cp's post, he clearly demonstrates good strength in this area and if other bowlers have having difficulty getting fully side on with ffc straight down the wicket, their first port of call should be strengthening this muscle!

You're spot on Liz. My GL Medius is very well developed (almost certainly due to the many, many hours of bowling leg spin). Actually, the GL Medius is well developed on both sides. Would both the left and right develop beyond normal size from bowling spin?

 

[Cleanprophet]

Dont you have cricket nets set up on every street corner like we do here in Australia?

Cricket nets are like the Holy Grail in England. We never even played cricket at my school (and that was true of the vast majority of schools in my city). It's embarrassing really.

They're our club nets and only get opened up one evening a week for about 16 weeks. Up north it's very different but down here it's soccer.

That is true Dave. All the clubs I go to here in the North West have nets up all through the year. But you still have to go to the club. We don't have them in parks like they do in Australia.